Finished Mafia LXI: Forest Fire: Game Over!
- Thread starter NinjaPenguin
- Start date
- Status
Yup, yesterday or before yesterday morning he said there'd be a Mega ISO before the end of the irl day. Of course things happen, but I'm curious as to why we haven't heard from him at all since.
I get that, but it's more how the vote was made than the vote itself that irks me. Before getting into that,I haven't checked, but from memory he was the second last to vote Celever, followed by Lily. If that is correct, his vote mattered to secure the Celever elimination - if he voted for you, he would've left Lily to decide between a coin flip and an Ephemera lynch, but this only matters in a world where he wants to keep you around for...reasons. I can see scum!scattered keeping you around because you townread them. Of course this assumes that no one who has already voted will change their vote, but then again, that is a reasonable assumption to make that late in the Day.
Anyways, the point itself: even leaving aside the cases he put up and ignored, his support for the Cel wagon kinda came out of nowhere. The suspicions on Celever were already there in between his posting the cases and voting for Celever, but he chose to not talk about it and switch his vote very late in the Day. We could go in circles around this for a while, but I think we need scattered himself to clear this up.
You don't have to make strong pushes D1 to be town, but I do think you should share your thought process for things, beyond a single line if possible.
Glad to see I'm not alone on this!
Day 2: Vote Count 2
bbninjas (3)-MegaPod_781, scattered mind, EphemeraMegaPod_781 (1)-bbinjas
Ephemera (1)-Amici
scattered mind (1)-Vom
Not Voting: Fiery_Lugia, Jadethepokemontrainer
If the day ended right now, bbninjas would be eliminated. There are 48 hours remaining in the day.
Vote History:
#20-Celever voted bbninjas
#23-Amici voted Celever
#27-Ephemera voted Celever
#30-Vom voted Fiery_Lugia
#32-Ephemera voted Vom
#41-Ephemera voted Ephemera
#42-Ephemera voted Vom
#47-Vom voted Ephemera
#51-Jadethepokemontrainer voted MegaPod_781
#55-Celever voted Ephemera
#81-MegaPod_781 voted bbninjas
#102-bbninjas voted Ephemera
#120-Ephemera voted bbninjas
#123-Ephemera voted MegaPod_781
#139-MegaPod_781 voted Ephemera
#151-Scattered mind voted Amici
#162-Ephemera voted Celever
#244-MegaPod_781 voted Celever
#249-Jadethepokemontrainer voted Celever
#268-scattered mind voted Fiery_Lugia
#276-Ephemera voted bbninjas
#288-scattered mind voted Celever
#297-Celever voted bbninjas
#302-Fiery_Lugia voted Celever
#304-Celever voted Amici
#23-Amici voted Celever
#27-Ephemera voted Celever
#30-Vom voted Fiery_Lugia
#32-Ephemera voted Vom
#41-Ephemera voted Ephemera
#42-Ephemera voted Vom
#47-Vom voted Ephemera
#51-Jadethepokemontrainer voted MegaPod_781
#55-Celever voted Ephemera
#81-MegaPod_781 voted bbninjas
#102-bbninjas voted Ephemera
#120-Ephemera voted bbninjas
#123-Ephemera voted MegaPod_781
#139-MegaPod_781 voted Ephemera
#151-Scattered mind voted Amici
#162-Ephemera voted Celever
#244-MegaPod_781 voted Celever
#249-Jadethepokemontrainer voted Celever
#268-scattered mind voted Fiery_Lugia
#276-Ephemera voted bbninjas
#288-scattered mind voted Celever
#297-Celever voted bbninjas
#302-Fiery_Lugia voted Celever
#304-Celever voted Amici
#320-scattered mind voted bbninjas
#348-bbninjas voted MegaPod_781
#353-Amici voted Ephemera
#357-Vom voted scattered mind
#358-Ephemera voted bbninjas
If I'm missing any votes, please let me know. For the ease of making a votecount, it helps to bold votes if possible, but that is not required.
Apologies for not having made a votecount yesterday.
The following players did not post in the first span of 24 hours and are being tagged (this isn't a warning or anything, just a reminder):
Celever
Vom
The following players have not posted in the past 24 hours and are being tagged (this isn't a warning or anything, just a reminder):
Amici
bbninjas
Celever
Fiery_Lugia
Jadethepokemontrainer
MegaPod_781
scattered mind
Celever
Vom
The following players have not posted in the past 24 hours and are being tagged (this isn't a warning or anything, just a reminder):
Amici
bbninjas
Celever
Fiery_Lugia
Jadethepokemontrainer
MegaPod_781
scattered mind
The following players are nowhere near to meeting the day's activity requirements and have been warned:
@Amici (2 posts)
@Celever (1 post)
@Fiery_Lugia (1 post)
@Jadethepokemontrainer (2 posts)
@MegaPod_781 (2 posts)
Seeing as 5/9 players have not come close to meeting the average of 2 posts per day standard, and because I did not post a votecount yesterday, the day will be extended for 24 hours. Please try to meet the posting requirements within that time span.
My question stands though, if your read isn't tipped to either side, that means it's not a town read. Why put someone who you don't read as town in your core?
Ok, but how do they look worse?How has the Cel flip influenced your read on Ephe?
Hiiii. Yeah, ugh, so Mafia stresses me out sometimes and I've really been feeling that and kinda needed to step away for a bit. Also with the ISO, bb got to one before me. I skimmed over his iso and he's got a lot of what I was looking at down. However if y'all still want me to do one, I can do that tomorrow (IRL days) or maybe tonight if I'm feeling better.
I would like to hear what @MegaPod_781 has to say to bb's ISO and the case on him in general.
I agree with Eph's point on scattered - reevaluation seems very plausible here. I'm also concerned that scattered was convinced that I was being too defensive even after reading the context, but I think that's NAI right now. I would like to see more pressure from him on Jade and Fiery (he still seems to think they're scummy), as he's one of the few (?) people reading them in that way.
Amici has also isolated Eph's vote without considering context, which one would expect if Amici was reading back. The "since Eph pushed Celever and Celever=town, Eph is scum" argument is rather linear. It's quite ironic because Amici themself voted for Celever, and should be in the limelight more because they haven't been particularly transparent about their reads.
Also notice how Amici puts Mega in their scumreads now that Mega has a case on them, but doesn't put pressure on them or make any comment on the case itself. If Mega is scum, I'm pretty sure Amici is bussing.
ReadTowncore: Eph x Vom x Jade
Neutral: scattered, Fiery
Scumcore: Mega x Amici.
I don't like this post because it's very shallow. Amici hasn't engaged with any of the points that might suggest Ephemera is town: that Eph switched over to a bbn vote despite it putting Ephemera into a tie with the Celever wagon. It would be much easier and safer for scum!Eph to park their vote on Cel. Amici's post also doesn't engage with the point that Eph didn't care about getting lynched (see spoiler), which is townie. This is stranger because a person in Amici's towncore (me) raised this points and did a complete 180 on Eph, which should have caught town!Amici's attention.
Amici has also isolated Eph's vote without considering context, which one would expect if Amici was reading back. The "since Eph pushed Celever and Celever=town, Eph is scum" argument is rather linear. It's quite ironic because Amici themself voted for Celever, and should be in the limelight more because they haven't been particularly transparent about their reads.
Also notice how Amici puts Mega in their scumreads now that Mega has a case on them, but doesn't put pressure on them or make any comment on the case itself. If Mega is scum, I'm pretty sure Amici is bussing.
ReadTowncore: Eph x Vom x Jade
Neutral: scattered, Fiery
Scumcore: Mega x Amici.
Or, to be clear, preparing to bus.
Re: the claim that I'm being overly defensive right now; I would strongly disagree.
scattered's claim is that I was being too defensive. I asked scattered to reread the part of Day 1 that he skimmed, which should show very clearly that Eph continuously and repeatedly was saying I was scummy without actually giving a reason. Scattered then says he "can not find anything to warrant such response" [post #335]. I then ask him to reread the context prior to that skimmed portion, and it still doesn't change anything for scattered. I can not understand how rereading did not change anything, and so I wall dump all of the Ephemera quotes to make explicitly clear that I was defending myself from a smear that warranted much more than a "can you elaborate" response.
Yes, I do think it is ridiculous that scattered reread the context and still couldn't see how my response was even somewhat warranted.
To comment on some more of Vom's points:
A few of your reads lately seem to be based on NAI things like the quantity of someone's participation, instead of the quality of someone's participation. (e.g. "Good to see Amici chiming in more...")
@Ephemera I think your reads are also being influenced by quantity instead of quality.
scattered's claim is that I was being too defensive. I asked scattered to reread the part of Day 1 that he skimmed, which should show very clearly that Eph continuously and repeatedly was saying I was scummy without actually giving a reason. Scattered then says he "can not find anything to warrant such response" [post #335]. I then ask him to reread the context prior to that skimmed portion, and it still doesn't change anything for scattered. I can not understand how rereading did not change anything, and so I wall dump all of the Ephemera quotes to make explicitly clear that I was defending myself from a smear that warranted much more than a "can you elaborate" response.
Yes, I do think it is ridiculous that scattered reread the context and still couldn't see how my response was even somewhat warranted.
Just so you know - late-day ISOs are very anti-town, especially if you haven't introduced the main case points prior, because it rushes discussion, limits discussion and can even stop the player you're ISOing from responding (i.e. your Day 1 ISO of me). You need to very least articulate your main case points (with evidence!) in some form earlier in the day.
I don't think it's enough to just wait for Mega to respond (what exactly are you waiting for?). We've already lost 24+ hours of the day to inactivity, we need pressure or evaluation of the cases on me and Mega from other townspeople. Keep in mind that Mega doesn't exactly respond promptly to things...
To comment on some more of Vom's points:
I don't understand how delivering an ISO is town-indicative and how not delivering an ISO is scum-indicative? All it indicates is that someone has lots of time / interest or very few time / interest respectively.
A few of your reads lately seem to be based on NAI things like the quantity of someone's participation, instead of the quality of someone's participation. (e.g. "Good to see Amici chiming in more...")
@Ephemera I think your reads are also being influenced by quantity instead of quality.
Where did scattered and amici give Lily the new player's pass? I remember asking Amici about Lily and they most definitely did not give the pass (they said something about expecting the same from players regardless of their experience), and scattered also seems to be reading Lily as scummy? I do agree that giving the new player pass at this stage is scummy if they are doing that
I think the bolded is an interesting point, scattered hasn't been as transparent about their solving as it would initially seem.
Oh, I totally misunderstood that lol. What about your read on Ephe? I think this is the third time I've had to ask you to elaborate on that.
I think by itself that's not even an argument coming from the D2 perspective where we know for a fact Celever is town - hindsight is 20/20. That has to be the mafia equivalent of a cherry on top of a case or at least a supporting argument, not the basis of the whole case.
It's not, I just wanted to get Jade back to the land of the living. However being 24 hours late to a small ISO looks a bit like withholding information to me, so I wanted to see if there was a particular reason for Jade to not post it on time.
Do you have other examples? Because I explicitly said there wasn't enough info on Lily, the most inactive player in the game to read her either way; Jade, a relatively inactive player is one of my town reads; and scattered mind, another relatively inactive player, is not; yourself, one of the most vocal players in the game, are not at the top of my town reads. As for that example, that was just a comment - I never said I town read Amici.
Wasn't that one of Amici's very first posts? Along the D1 post where she kinda tries to lead the town in RVS. Either way, I quoted the exact post in my post with all the quotes, but her post as I understood it was basically "she's fine, she's trying" which is very much new player pass.
scattered actually used that in his case against Lily, hence I'm less drawn to him (at least as far as that specific reason is concerned) and moreso Amici, but until now he's never brought it up again after coming in multiple times so I can only assume he doesn't deem it important or a valid point anymore.
I'm not sure if I misunderstood this or not. Have you still never finished this post, or was the post after this one the rest of what you had to say? Just wanna be sure.
Mega definitely doesn't respond quickly... not holding that against him though as I understand that. However I do get what you are saying here. IMO as of now I think mega is the way to go, I still have my eyes on Amici. I'm going to look over both of their posts tomorrow again.
Yeah sorry I'm going to do my best to be on the thread and posting more often.
I had 2 big wagons and a close deadline. Celever did not respond and I thought the case was bad at the beginning but looking into it more it actually made sense so I voted him.
The case on bbninjas made by megapod is good and better than lily and jade. Bbninjas trying to discredit megapod and putting the impression that mega did not originally made the case is also weird. Megapod not owning the case is also also weird.
The case on bbninjas made by megapod is good and better than lily and jade. Bbninjas trying to discredit megapod and putting the impression that mega did not originally made the case is also weird. Megapod not owning the case is also also weird.
Also it’s my birthday so sorry for the inactivity.
Ugh, sorry for taking so long to get back to this game. And happy birthday, scattered mind!
On the topic of me “piggybacking,” all I really have to say about that besides that, for better or worse, I’m usually more of a reactive player than an aggressive one, and basically keep an eye out for what cases I agree or disagree with or what slip-ups I can find. So yeah, I guess some piggybacking results from that and there’s no point trying to claim that any of my cases so far have been particularly original. Maybe it is a sucky playstyle, but at the end of the day, the point of the game is to make what I think is the right vote, even if I don’t come off as original. And sometimes my thoughts even line up with someone else’s before I see they posted it. I was going to post something similar to scattered’s comment on bb’s “smear campaign” post, but it would’ve come off as an echo of him anyways, so yeah. It was quicker to just say I agreed with him and why I did.
And for the record, I never meant to insinuate that I was pressing anyone for info when I wasn’t. By “get better at pressing people for info,” I meant, like, getting better at actually making a point to do it at all. >_>
As for my “weird progression,” sure, I suppose it looks weird that I was scumreading Eph at first and then going along with one of his cases. But reads do change, and as iffy as I was on Eph much of the previous day, I’m more inclined to believe that Eph is Town at this point because of how his solving has improved since the start.
On the topic of me “piggybacking,” all I really have to say about that besides that, for better or worse, I’m usually more of a reactive player than an aggressive one, and basically keep an eye out for what cases I agree or disagree with or what slip-ups I can find. So yeah, I guess some piggybacking results from that and there’s no point trying to claim that any of my cases so far have been particularly original. Maybe it is a sucky playstyle, but at the end of the day, the point of the game is to make what I think is the right vote, even if I don’t come off as original. And sometimes my thoughts even line up with someone else’s before I see they posted it. I was going to post something similar to scattered’s comment on bb’s “smear campaign” post, but it would’ve come off as an echo of him anyways, so yeah. It was quicker to just say I agreed with him and why I did.
And for the record, I never meant to insinuate that I was pressing anyone for info when I wasn’t. By “get better at pressing people for info,” I meant, like, getting better at actually making a point to do it at all. >_>
As for my “weird progression,” sure, I suppose it looks weird that I was scumreading Eph at first and then going along with one of his cases. But reads do change, and as iffy as I was on Eph much of the previous day, I’m more inclined to believe that Eph is Town at this point because of how his solving has improved since the start.
adsdfajhkajsf i am so sorry about my lack of wall on bb
motivation is at a low, and free time is also divided among... a lot of things – when i can use it for myself that is, occasionally i can't.
I will get it out today. I'm so sorry – if not a proper wall I'll at least make a thorough reeval, maybe a paragraph or two plus quotes. I can do that for sure.
uh. scattered. i believe i was the first one to case bb lol.
Happy birthday btw!
motivation is at a low, and free time is also divided among... a lot of things – when i can use it for myself that is, occasionally i can't.
I will get it out today. I'm so sorry – if not a proper wall I'll at least make a thorough reeval, maybe a paragraph or two plus quotes. I can do that for sure.
uh. scattered. i believe i was the first one to case bb lol.
Happy birthday btw!
vom/scattered hecka townie. made my points on them, never eliminate period.
jade's posts are pretty towny as well. that dropoff, while not a good look, is understandable – everyone dropped off D2 due to stuff – weekend, IRL commitments, blah blah blah. The lack of Mega ISO or analysis makes sense – bb said what jade was thinking – plus stress from mafia is p understandable.
Only thing I could tinfoil here is maybe it's v stressful because Jade is mafia losing energy to look town? that's tinfoil tho. Still a moderate townread, which i may or may not have talked myself into in the last few sentences lol
i don't really know where i stand on lily. she's been p inactive – which isn't uncommon on PB mafia unfortunately lol – and didn't seem coached for her few posts. This could also be lurking maf though told to look like a newbie and deliberately not being led along by a scumbuddy. I still lean town here but will need to reconsider.
amici has dropped a little. my initial townread of her + generally no suspicion or case with momentum in thread let her coast a bit imo – riding the townreads. That could still be town but tbh when trying to remember stuff from thread I don't really remember too many of her reads, and they weren't fleshed out much. please correct me if i'm wrong, writing this in the middle of the night, but i'm fairly sure of this. Basically feels like coasting on the low pressure, but again not necessarily scum.
there's scum between bb/mega. at this point i think they're not w/w, but that's not a lock either. I am pretty sure that there is scum there, though.
both of them could have partners
bb, i swear i'm gonna evaluate you on your defense post, i'm really sorry i haven't got to it yet, busy/demotivated/stressed/tired. ugh.
jade's posts are pretty towny as well. that dropoff, while not a good look, is understandable – everyone dropped off D2 due to stuff – weekend, IRL commitments, blah blah blah. The lack of Mega ISO or analysis makes sense – bb said what jade was thinking – plus stress from mafia is p understandable.
Only thing I could tinfoil here is maybe it's v stressful because Jade is mafia losing energy to look town? that's tinfoil tho. Still a moderate townread, which i may or may not have talked myself into in the last few sentences lol
i don't really know where i stand on lily. she's been p inactive – which isn't uncommon on PB mafia unfortunately lol – and didn't seem coached for her few posts. This could also be lurking maf though told to look like a newbie and deliberately not being led along by a scumbuddy. I still lean town here but will need to reconsider.
amici has dropped a little. my initial townread of her + generally no suspicion or case with momentum in thread let her coast a bit imo – riding the townreads. That could still be town but tbh when trying to remember stuff from thread I don't really remember too many of her reads, and they weren't fleshed out much. please correct me if i'm wrong, writing this in the middle of the night, but i'm fairly sure of this. Basically feels like coasting on the low pressure, but again not necessarily scum.
there's scum between bb/mega. at this point i think they're not w/w, but that's not a lock either. I am pretty sure that there is scum there, though.
both of them could have partners
bb, i swear i'm gonna evaluate you on your defense post, i'm really sorry i haven't got to it yet, busy/demotivated/stressed/tired. ugh.
oh my god my sleep deprived brain forgot to finish the rest of this thought
it's supposed to be smth like:
both of them could have partners somewhere in my nulls, maybe even low townreads if i'm inaccurate – aka amici/lily, maybe jade.
i guess my brain looked at "both of them could have partners" and went, yep this is a totally complete and valid thought, i can post this!
lol so yeah ephe of 15 minutes ago, just FTFY. Thank me.
Day 2: Vote Count 3
bbninjas (3)-MegaPod_781, scattered mind, EphemeraMegaPod_781 (1)-bbninjas
Ephemera (1)-Amici
scattered mind (1)-Vom
Not Voting: Fiery_Lugia, Jadethepokemontrainer
If the day ended right now, bbninjas would be eliminated. There are 23.75 hours remaining in the day.
Vote History:
#20-Celever voted bbninjas
#23-Amici voted Celever
#27-Ephemera voted Celever
#30-Vom voted Fiery_Lugia
#32-Ephemera voted Vom
#41-Ephemera voted Ephemera
#42-Ephemera voted Vom
#47-Vom voted Ephemera
#51-Jadethepokemontrainer voted MegaPod_781
#55-Celever voted Ephemera
#81-MegaPod_781 voted bbninjas
#102-bbninjas voted Ephemera
#120-Ephemera voted bbninjas
#123-Ephemera voted MegaPod_781
#139-MegaPod_781 voted Ephemera
#151-Scattered mind voted Amici
#162-Ephemera voted Celever
#244-MegaPod_781 voted Celever
#249-Jadethepokemontrainer voted Celever
#268-scattered mind voted Fiery_Lugia
#276-Ephemera voted bbninjas
#288-scattered mind voted Celever
#297-Celever voted bbninjas
#302-Fiery_Lugia voted Celever
#304-Celever voted Amici
#23-Amici voted Celever
#27-Ephemera voted Celever
#30-Vom voted Fiery_Lugia
#32-Ephemera voted Vom
#41-Ephemera voted Ephemera
#42-Ephemera voted Vom
#47-Vom voted Ephemera
#51-Jadethepokemontrainer voted MegaPod_781
#55-Celever voted Ephemera
#81-MegaPod_781 voted bbninjas
#102-bbninjas voted Ephemera
#120-Ephemera voted bbninjas
#123-Ephemera voted MegaPod_781
#139-MegaPod_781 voted Ephemera
#151-Scattered mind voted Amici
#162-Ephemera voted Celever
#244-MegaPod_781 voted Celever
#249-Jadethepokemontrainer voted Celever
#268-scattered mind voted Fiery_Lugia
#276-Ephemera voted bbninjas
#288-scattered mind voted Celever
#297-Celever voted bbninjas
#302-Fiery_Lugia voted Celever
#304-Celever voted Amici
#320-scattered mind voted bbninjas
#348-bbninjas voted MegaPod_781
#353-Amici voted Ephemera
#357-Vom voted scattered mind
#358-Ephemera voted bbninjas
If I'm missing any votes, please let me know. For the ease of making a votecount, it helps to bold votes if possible, but that is not required.
The following players have not posted in the past 24 hours and are being tagged (this isn't a warning or anything, just a reminder):
@Celever
@Fiery_Lugia
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