Finished Mafia XLV: Heroes of Askr ~ The Winner Is...

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You listed 7 in which I actually had a good reason for most of them.

And the repetition of me saying I'd have to lie to make my defenses better is trying to make a point that they are literally the best I got. I don't know if y'all have noticed but when I'm scum (namely in WW) I actually think things thru but when I'm not I tend to just give crappy reasons, like the ones thus far apparently. So I'm saying that if I were scum I definetly would've had a better excuse than "I didn't want to" for not getting on jade.
You just said that you can't compare Discord Werewolf to forum Mafia. Why are you comparing the two now? Also how can you make your defenses better through saying they're bad?
 
And also Neurowolf, we still haven't seen a reply to the points made on your post.
 
It was a stupid post :/. I mean they're right, I see now that we should vote first day. Well gg for my first mafia post I guess. Here are more of my useless opinions and stuff:
>Gekki seems too on Rainy for having a sedimentary playstyle and I don't like how he's so sure on the first day.
>I mean we have to lynch somebody from what I just was told, so I guess this is going somewhere for not having any real solid evidence
>I have no idea what Rainy looks like when he's being "scum", but Rainy doesn't look like he's doing any harm
*insert quote from where Scattered votes for me. My quotes don't work on mobile so this should do*
>You make a good point, thanks for showing me why we should vote first day
>I'm still learning :p
>I'm leaning towards Gekki for my vote because he seems too "into it"
>I'm sure better people to vote for will stand out eventually
Sorry I'm being a bit idle, I'm just reading and learning how we do stuff here
 
It was a stupid post :/. I mean they're right, I see now that we should vote first day. Well gg for my first mafia post I guess. Here are more of my useless opinions and stuff:
>Gekki seems too on Rainy for having a sedimentary playstyle and I don't like how he's so sure on the first day.
>I mean we have to lynch somebody from what I just was told, so I guess this is going somewhere for not having any real solid evidence
>I have no idea what Rainy looks like when he's being "scum", but Rainy doesn't look like he's doing any harm
*insert quote from where Scattered votes for me. My quotes don't work on mobile so this should do*
>You make a good point, thanks for showing me why we should vote first day
>I'm still learning :p
>I'm leaning towards Gekki for my vote because he seems too "into it"
>I'm sure better people to vote for will stand out eventually
Sorry I'm being a bit idle, I'm just reading and learning how we do stuff here
I'm only "on" rainy because he seems scummy and I'm not "so sure" that rainy is scum. I brought up cases on two other people (NP and you), but they haven't been saying anything (and tbh this new post of yours seems much more townie), and I have better reasons to vote rainy then I do to vote them. Rainy IS doing harm for being so sedentary and if he is town, he should realise that this supposed " town meta" of his isn't helping town in any way. I can see why you think I'm too "into it", but I'm sick, it's Sunday, and I don't really have anything better to do. :x

Otherwise, I agree with what Neurowolf said in this post and it reads townie to me.
 
I don't have much time to read back tonight, so if someone would be willing to catch me up a bit on leads and stuff, that would be wonderful. Thanks!
 
I have a lead on rainy, but i think in order to understand it, you have to read through this wall of posts. Sorry about that :/
@rainyman123 this post is from four pages ago and you were viewing this thread a couple minutes ago. Respond to it already.
Discord WW and Forum mafia aren't the same gekki, you should know this.

I dint replay to Jade's version because I didn't want to tbh
well, Jades thing that was practically the same as lords
I didn't say they were. You're completely ignoring my other reasons.
What kind of reasoning is that?
I don't have any other reasoning so that's the best I can do
I had just posted that and then saw jades but was all like "I'm too lazy"
So you mean that's all you have to say for your defense?
P much. Is what you have enough on lynch me on tho? Obviously, people know how I play, meaning y'all know I'd do this u
I mean, sure. I can see why you might do that. But I still think it's odd that you didn't respond to Jade's RVS and that it took you this long to come up with two sentences of bad reasoning.
Again, I don't have any other reasoning, and lying would only put more scummyness on me so why the heck would I do that, it's better to just say that I didn't want to, which is completely true.
I think there's enough evidence on you currently to suffice suspicion.

Well, you should have other reasoning. You are still acting a bit out of character from games I've played with you and it's no defense at all just to say "I was too lazy".
Ok then, you want reasoning: "Jade is my scumbuddy and I was protecting him"
Do you see how stupid that sounds? I could give other reasons but they'd all be about as crappy as that one. Do you see now why I said that?
I already understand why you said that. Basically your saying that there's better reasoning against you then you have for you.
P much, but I'm still not sure if it's enough to lynch
Doesn't anyone have any other suspicions? I haven't read the past 4 pages so I wouldn't know of anything. Myself, my instincts tell me Jade is scum, but I also have nothing to base that on.
Before you say I'm trying to get y'all off my back I'm just saying we need to look at other people and not rush
We aren't rushing at all. You realize you only have two votes on you? The only logic for Jade being scum right now is you not including him in that post and you putting up a paper defense to the logic behind me thinking you and Jade are scumbuddies. This could be an attempt by rainy to bus Jade in order to make himself seem more townie if/when Jade flips scum. And if you don't want people "on your back", try having better defenses.

If you haven't read the last four pages, you really need to.
I was about to be rushed. Just telling everyone to not jump ahead
2 votes and one person actively pressuring you is not "rushing."
Gekki I'm not that trash of a player, and if your thinking that, I'd say that means we probably aren't doing that.

And again if I wanted better "defenses" I'd have to lie and again that would only make me seem more scummy. And I don't know of you noticed but the way I'm playing right now really should say anything if my alignment, if you've read past games you'll notice in 1 of them I was scum and I won that and how I was playing then is nothing how I'm playing now, so, uh, yeah.
Here are the points on Rainy I have/have seen so far:

-Strange connection with Jade in that both Lorde and Jade RVSed a newbie, but he only went for Lorde, and the fact that his defense against this logic is just plain bad.

-He's acting slightly out of character.

-He reacted really badly to scattered's RVS.

-He's strongly overreacting to votes/pressure.

Anyone have anything to add? I want to hear everyone's thoughts on the rainy case.
Again my defense for the first is that I just didn't do it, I see how that's scummy, but not something lynch on.

Read my last post.

"Reacted badly" how? I simply questioned him on how he thought I was enthusiastic?

It's not overreaction, it's keeping Town from making a bad mistake.
Link me to this game please. I can't be expected to go find and read every single game that's ever happened. I would also like to add these to my points on rainy:

-He keeps repeating the same thing over and over again; "I'd have to lie to make my defenses better"

-The fact that he even admits he'd have to lie to make his defenses better.
If im admitting I must lie to make them better, that means they are literally the best reasons I have, meaning you really don't have any good reason to lynch



(Sorry if that didn't make much sense, I don't think well in sitatuosn like this)
You reacted badly to it because it was just an RVS with a joke reason, which is something that usually only gets reacted to by hyper-paranoid scum.
No, it means that what I said hit home and you don't have a defense for it.
I didn't count on me not saying that what one person did was scummy but not saying that to another person would end up turning in big conversation. No I don't have a good defense but do you have a good reason why what I did is good enough reason to lynch?
I literally just listed like 10 :/
You listed 7 in which I actually had a good reason for most of them.

And the repetition of me saying I'd have to lie to make my defenses better is trying to make a point that they are literally the best I got. I don't know if y'all have noticed but when I'm scum (namely in WW) I actually think things thru but when I'm not I tend to just give crappy reasons, like the ones thus far apparently. So I'm saying that if I were scum I definetly would've had a better excuse than "I didn't want to" for not getting on jade.
Oh, you wanted to know why all of my reasoning is good enough to lynch? Well, for now, the combination of the fact that we don't have many other leads, the strange way you're acting under pressure, and the fact that you have basically no defense against one of my main points makes me think that you're scum and you're worth voting for.
Also I can't even find any of your posts in this thread.
(By this thread I mean the thread you linked for me)
You just said that you can't compare Discord Werewolf to forum Mafia. Why are you comparing the two now? Also how can you make your defenses better through saying they're bad?
I'm not exactly comparing the 2 but I do play more or less the same on each.
Prove it.

Also @Neurowolf and @scattered mind you've both been lurking in this thread on and off throughout this conversation with rainy. Do you have anything to add?
 
@Celever doesn't this make ya miss Camo? :p

Well, it seemed like you were accusing me of protecting Neuro, so I denied it. Why is it a bad thing to not want to be lynched? No one does, so if points are brought up against them, they try to prove them wrong. I don't see how that's scummy.
Nono, because you were taking points against you absurdly seriously considering how early in D1 it was. It's scummy to be hyperconscious of how you appear to the town, because a true townie has nothing to hide.

Here are the points on Rainy I have/have seen so far:
Right-o.
-Strange connection with Jade in that both Lorde and Jade RVSed a newbie, but he only went for Lorde, and the fact that his defense against this logic is just plain bad.
His defense is truthful––I see this as a townie point. Defenses aren't obliged to suit your wishes.
-He's acting slightly out of character.
Based off what evidence? Would be great if you could back this up with examples of rainy's townmeta and scummeta.
-He reacted really badly to scattered's RVS.
Not nearly as badly as you did to this.
-He's strongly overreacting to votes/pressure.
No he isn't and you know it. He's underreacting if anything; that's your entire case on him; that he can't provide the sort of defense you're looking for.
Anyone have anything to add? I want to hear everyone's thoughts on the rainy case.
It's a bad case. ^.^

Also, as another note: Calm down with the "Hey XXX you're lurking anything to add?". As was the case with scattered here, it takes a while to read through the thread whilst keeping all the cases (good and otherwise) straight in your head. It doesn't accomplish anything, as most of the time it isn't genuine lurking but rather reading and formulating an opinion on everything that's happened since one's last post––and even when it is, lurking is punished at the discretion of the host.

What it is, on the other hand, is a very good way for scum to appear as though they're doing something beneficial when they're really not. Sort of the same as posting "!time" and nothing else in Discord WW.

##UNVOTE
##VOTE: GEKKISAIDINAI
for being hyperconscious of how he appears to the town, for pseudo-tunneling a bad case, and for a whole mess of fluff designed to gain towncred.
 
@Celever doesn't this make ya miss Camo? :p


Nono, because you were taking points against you absurdly seriously considering how early in D1 it was. It's scummy to be hyperconscious of how you appear to the town, because a true townie has nothing to hide.


Right-o.

His defense is truthful––I see this as a townie point. Defenses aren't obliged to suit your wishes.

Based off what evidence? Would be great if you could back this up with examples of rainy's townmeta and scummeta.

Not nearly as badly as you did to this.

No he isn't and you know it. He's underreacting if anything; that's your entire case on him; that he can't provide the sort of defense you're looking for.

It's a bad case. ^.^

Also, as another note: Calm down with the "Hey XXX you're lurking anything to add?". As was the case with scattered here, it takes a while to read through the thread whilst keeping all the cases (good and otherwise) straight in your head. It doesn't accomplish anything, as most of the time it isn't genuine lurking but rather reading and formulating an opinion on everything that's happened since one's last post––and even when it is, lurking is punished at the discretion of the host.

What it is, on the other hand, is a very good way for scum to appear as though they're doing something beneficial when they're really not. Sort of the same as posting "!time" and nothing else in Discord WW.

##UNVOTE
##VOTE: GEKKISAIDINAI
for being hyperconscious of how he appears to the town, for pseudo-tunneling a bad case, and for a whole mess of fluff designed to gain towncred.
I don't think investigating a possible lead is "pseudo tunneling". What do you mean by fluff? I was investigating what seemed to be a legitimate lead on rainy (at least, seemed legit to me) and it turned out to be meh. After reading through rainy's posts again, they seem more like those of a confused townie than a pressured scum, so I'll ##UNVOTE: rainyman123 and ##VOTE: NinjaPenguin for voting Neurowolf supposedly to get him to talk, then not taking his vote off Neurowolf after he did. Also, for the reasons I list here:
The first thing I notice about this is "Oh wait I can't read that you just said it was an observation". It seems too panicked and backpedal-y and I don't like it, especially coming from someone experienced. Then, he votes for Neurowolf without giving a reason and segues to asking him if he's read any past games. If he wanted Neurowolf to start talking, like he said here:

Why couldn't he have just tagged Neuro and asked him what he thought? I agree that voting for someone is an effective way to force someone into talking, but it's barely the beginning of D1, and there are less active people than Neuro right now (@lugia_Likes2dab!, @Blob55 (although she did say she'd be gone for the weekend). As to this second post, he litterally does nothing except give a shaky reason for voting Neuro, echo Lorde, and exhort me to write a reply (which, BTW, I was while you said this, NP :U). It's very fluffy.
 
I don't think investigating a possible lead is "pseudo tunneling".
He defended. You wouldn't accept his defense. You were at it for like three pages. That's tunneling. "Pseudo" because you made passing references to other cases whenever you were called on it.
What do you mean by fluff?
The "hey y'all I see you stop lurking" bit.
I think I need a dictionary for all these WW terms :p
Fortunately we've got one. :p
 
He defended. You wouldn't accept his defense. You were at it for like three pages. That's tunneling. "Pseudo" because you made passing references to other cases whenever you were called on it.

The "hey y'all I see you stop lurking" bit.

Fortunately we've got one. :p
Thanks, it was a nice read!
 
after reading through Gekki's case on Rainy, I can definitely see a difference. I don't know if I've ever played with scum Rainy before, so I don't know what his scum play style is. I have played several games with town Rainy though, and in previous games town Rainy doesn't really defend himself and kinda avoids things. At least that's how I recall. I've never seen Rainy act so aggressive in a game before, unless I'm missing something. I don't really think it's much to go off of currently, I'm going to look into his posts more tomorrow when I have time.

##VOTE: NinjaPenguin for voting Neurowolf supposedly to get him to talk, then not taking his vote off Neurowolf after he did. Also, for the reasons I list here:
May I hear more about the NP case? Like I said earlier, I don't have enough time to read back tonight and would like to figure out more of whats going on now rather than waiting until tomorrow and getting confuzzled :confused:
 
He defended. You wouldn't accept his defense. You were at it for like three pages. That's tunneling. "Pseudo" because you made passing references to other cases whenever you were called on it.

The "hey y'all I see you stop lurking" bit.

Fortunately we've got one. :p
Fair point. I just saw scummy behaviour and went for it since we didn't seem to be going anywhere.
after reading through Gekki's case on Rainy, I can definitely see a difference. I don't know if I've ever played with scum Rainy before, so I don't know what his scum play style is. I have played several games with town Rainy though, and in previous games town Rainy doesn't really defend himself and kinda avoids things. At least that's how I recall. I've never seen Rainy act so aggressive in a game before, unless I'm missing something. I don't really think it's much to go off of currently, I'm going to look into his posts more tomorrow when I have time.


May I hear more about the NP case? Like I said earlier, I don't have enough time to read back tonight and would like to figure out more of whats going on now rather than waiting until tomorrow and getting confuzzled :confused:
I pretty much said the entire case on NP in my post; that's all there is to go off of.
 
He defended. You wouldn't accept his defense. You were at it for like three pages. That's tunneling. "Pseudo" because you made passing references to other cases whenever you were called on it.

The "hey y'all I see you stop lurking" bit.

Fortunately we've got one. :p
I asked them to stop lurking because I wanted other people's opinions on my case, but I can see how it looks fluffy. However, if you want to talk fluff, let's take a look at NP:
##VOTE: GekkisaiDaiNi
This is a real vote. He's providing unnecessary levels of defense in his saying it was a ninja (though rainy's point was bad as all RVS is), is reaching hardcore calling those RVS votes pressure (and is shutting down some conversation in the process), and is just overall trying too hard.
Also, rainy please give a reason better than RVS for your RVS vote. I don't feel like having to say this again. Even Cel's "reason" was better than yours.
Cel explained why this is stupid in this post:
You're reaching harder than S Club 7.

I disagree with this entire post. Ninja wasn't defense it was observation along the lines of "ohey lookit dat das p cool" and nothing more. The point of RVS is pressure so obviously every individual RVS vote is also pressure, and there's nothing wrong with trying too hard.
Which causes NP to push his point for one single post:
But that case had actual reasoning given in the RVS. Why specifically would Neuro have any fear about being told, "Welcome to forum mafia!"?

This is the post I'm referring to:
Then, once again, Celever explains why this is illogical:
Everyone will seem out of character compared to Discord mafia because chat mafia and forum mafia are two entirely different games, alike in name alone.
And then NP starts to backpedal and jumps ship to vote for Neurowolf for no good reason (supposedly getting him to talk):
Oh wait I can't read that you said it was just an observation. Not sure I believe it, but my line of questioning won't be able to progress if it is true:
##UNVOTE: GekkisaiDaiNi
##VOTE: Neurowolf

Have you read any past games? If not, I highly recommend you do so to familiarize yourself somewhat with how we play on the forums.
And then he starts distracting the discussion a little bit by asking Neuro this (even though he should read some of the old Neurowolf, Here's his next post:
That's bad reading. The RVS vote that actually ended up killing Nebby that game was me pointing out the OMGUS.

Vote for attention. Neuro's less likely to skim the post when he sees that he's been voted in it.

I don't share read on #2, but I otherwise agree with this (especially the new player rant). Also, #1 certainly merits responding to.
So, he starts with a sentence that diverts the conversation, once again. Then, all he does is echo Lorde and give a crap reason for voting for Neurowolf. This is pure fluff.
Wait what? It seems super suspicious to me that Neuro "felt pressure" from the weakest RVS vote I've done in like 4 games.
Also, answer my question. It's not that hard.

I don't really feel like XLIII is a useful thing to talk about rn, so this will be my last response on this thought. The OMGUS was the point that the scum extrapolated out of proportion and used to lynch him. It was a horrifically weak reason, but one nonetheless.

The rest is a 20 post behind Gekki/Cel parrot about pressuring townies and what post I'm referring Day 1, though I'm surprised he chose me instead of Jade and Lorde. Shut down conversation is attempting to prevent RVS responses.

This is an extreme alarm bell to me. HW comes from a time where that was what people did. This post trying to provide a false sense of equivalency between HW being HW and happening to flip scum and a complete newbie. In fact, complete newibes (like Josh or ADoD in the last game) have had this idea in the past fsr. You should know so much better than that.

Gekki is also strawmanning Lorde's argument. She's asking you why what you did (calling out a newbie for inactivity even though they'd been on Discord) is any different than what you criticized Blakers for doing. We don't need your opinion on if she is overanalyzing your post; just tell us your answer, separated from a case on Lorde.

IDK why, but I've been recently having issues with tagging (at least on mobile), where I can't click on the box that fills the rest in without it accidentally deleting some of my post in the process and I'm not sure if tagging works without it.

Also, I'm gonna note to everyone that in the main Discord channel, Neuro said, "I was going to talk about how everyone doesn't trust me off the bat" when talking to Quaking about mafia. No real comments on it (it seems affiliation neutral to me); just putting it there for the purposes of revealing any OC.
Hooray! A real post! This is the first of two posts where he actually does something. No issues here that I can see.
But that's the normal HW meta. Read any old game and he would have done it as town.
And Neuro doing that is simple newbie meta to me.
But no matter what, it makes no sense to link those two situations, because they are completely different (and to me, both HW or Neuro proposing no voting D1 is affiliation neutral).
The second real post he's made. Not much to say here either.

We then see a strangely NP-less page (odd considering how vocal he has been in previous games where he was town), and then we get more fluff that does kinda help Neuro but doesn't really advance the game state for town. He could be trying to appear helpful to gain towncred.
I don't have much time to comment so I'll just note to @Neurowolf that Speed Mafia is a terrible example game and that Dazzling Star/Lorde's game are both pretty cool games that have fun (albeit similar) flavor and show a clear difference between a scum win and a town win (and tell you how good scum/good town play respectively).
Also, the host will handle Lugia's activity for us. It's not our job to lynch him on no basis because of inactivity when we have 4 subs anyway.

And there's the last thing he's said so far.
 
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