One thing that caught my attention was the huge amount of posts from BB and Lorde justifying TE's behavior. On the other hand, it could be that way because Gekki was trying to build a case on him with so many posts too, but the defense was a little excessive for me because I was expecting TE to defend himself.
Then, both BB and Lorde jumped after Gekki with a curious coordination. That makes me think about a connection between them. So, ##VOTE: Lorde
"Curious coordination" scumtells never work and IDK why people try to make them. Posting at the same time is nothing but pure coincidence, scumbuddy or not.
And Lorde's smart enough that she is very likely not gonna be so obvious by buddying BB if they both are scum.
Regarding what people have said about it being odd that I didn’t defend myself
If you look back I explain that I had other things to do plus some bad timing with battery life and internet and when I got back I saw that I had already been defended so yeah
Regarding what people have said about it being odd that I didn’t defend myself
If you look back I explain that I had other things to do plus some bad timing with battery life and internet and when I got back I saw that I had already been defended so yeah
Whoever said that is wrong because you had no real need to do anything more than you did.
Now then, can you tell me what players in this game look suspicious to you and why? Preferably, can you name one that nobody else has?
"Curious coordination" scumtells never work and IDK why people try to make them. Posting at the same time is nothing but pure coincidence, scumbuddy or not.
And Lorde's smart enough that she is very likely not gonna be so obvious by buddying BB if they both are scum.
Hmm, okay. I didn't hop on the wagon, it was way too early to even call it one when I voted for him. I voted him because when there's a potential lead in this D1 setting, you need pressure to make sure you get responses, reactions, rebuts. Gekki responds a lot when under pressure, having pressure on someone like him (especially when he's sort of a lead) is useful.
It wasn't a bandwagon, it was pressure vote. We had this discussion in WoTG, pressure votes are necessary. That's all I was doing. I don't think you're especially scummy, but it wasn't a bandwagon. Not only was my vote not motivated by sheeping, that was only the second vote on you.
If you don't think he's scummy, why are you still voting him and arguing against him? You say you want to pressure him to get a response, but don't you think you've already gotten one? And based on what you just said, you still don't find him especially scummy. Are you sure you're not just trying to make him crack under your pressure?
@NinjaPenguin
I’m not that good at scumreading unless it’s from something I set up like a trick where certain roles will act differently unfortunately they all only work in a small group about 5 people
So this is probably really bad but...
Mariano(?): he seemed pretty hasty to question my lack of response
If you don't think he's scummy, why are you still voting him and arguing against him? You say you want to pressure him to get a response, but don't you think you've already gotten one? And based on what you just said, you still don't find him especially scummy. Are you sure you're not just trying to make him crack under your pressure?
One thing that caught my attention was the huge amount of posts from BB and Lorde justifying TE's behavior. On the other hand, it could be that way because Gekki was trying to build a case on him with so many posts too, but the defense was a little excessive for me because I was expecting TE to defend himself.
Then, both BB and Lorde jumped after Gekki with a curious coordination. That makes me think about a connection between them. So, ##VOTE: Lorde
A. It's not even a point, it's your interpretation of a vague question.
B. NP just pointed out why your interpretation of it is a bad point.
C. You bandwagoned off a weak point from bb, which is sheeping.
1. By this logic it's my point and therefore I'm voting you for a completely different reason than BB, which literally makes it not a bandwagon.
2 and 3 are disproven since it's apparently my own point by your own logic.
This is a normally sized day (96 hours), and why not? I know we're still in the RVS phase but uh... because of the shorter day we should be playing faster than how we normally play.
RVS votes are useless once the person voted has replied (unless scummy response), or ignored them. When you don't get a reaction that could point in a certain direction, what use is there keeping the vote there?
Scum-slips are rare from fluff and RVS, even though this is the stage of the game where everyone's trying to figure out how they're going to survive, and it's that point of weakness for scum as well.
Not sure if this is OMGUS or not, or if it's even too early to accurately say.
##UNVOTE ##VOTE: GekkisaiDaiNi, this is a blatant disregard to the good point BB made about TE's vote not being an OMGUS, as well as that call for claims likely being a gag (both of which are 99% the case).
But he doesn't get slack for being new. Sure Discord mafia is radically different than forum mafia, but he's also said he's played mafia on other sites. He said it himself here:
He's implying it's really too early and we're still in that weird RVS phase where it's too early to make accusations such as these since at this time there were no real cases. So yeah, this isn't OMGUS, and I was wrong to think it could be.
In this early stage of the game with tons of fluff and random bs, all the time Gekki. You should know this at this point.
Minor backpedal, and even in this part of the game it is not wise to assume everything that could possibly be a joke as a joke. Seems over-protective of TE.
1. A joke, 100%. Anyone who's played mafia (especially multiple times like TE) knows this doesn't happen. This has to be a joke.
2. This is a fair point, actually. I'd like to see a response from @TOTAL_EPICNESS before commenting further on this one, however.
3. We just went over this...
1. It's not a joke until TE says it is.
2. Null
3. No, we didn't. You didn't point out what you were referring to, and not to mention it's not even a good point, and once again, it was just your interpretation for it.
And he was correct, it was too early, we were still in that RVS/fluffy phase. BB didn't put an actual vote on him either, it was a pressure vote, he wasn't constructing an actual case. OMGUS is OMGUS when they do this when the person they voted for was building a proper case against them. Otherwise it's not OMGUS, and no one's automatically suspicious.
Reading up on something, gonna post about it if I find anything interesting.
And as long as it's relevant and on topic at this point that's completely fair.
BB and I didn't put random votes on him, but Gekki gets aggravated under pressure, that's NAI for him. TE's not that new, he said it himself. He cracked some jokes and Gekki's scum reading him for his behavior, which I find ridiculous.
Well now it's possible it wasn't a joke, and he drew his massclaim inspiration from this. So yeah, this isn't a scumtell either way.
Of course not actually mafia yet. Still a bit early to mark him down as my definitive scum read, but I think this is the best place to put my vote for the time being.
Everything else is not. Activity levels, people playing (with very different styles of playing), metas, etc. Every single site out there has different ways of playing the game. I hadn't really understood that until playing on those sites. Mafia is a very different experience on all of them, it shocks me that you don't think the same.
Now before we lead this conversation into useless banter about the differences of Mafia on different sites, I'm turning in for the night. Will take a look at all of this in the morning.
Gekki's case isn't even really solid, none are. We still have time to figure out what we're gonna do.
So the only thing you disagree with is the necessity for a vote? That's fair.
Hmm, okay. I didn't hop on the wagon, it was way too early to even call it one when I voted for him. I voted him because when there's a potential lead in this D1 setting, you need pressure to make sure you get responses, reactions, rebuts. Gekki responds a lot when under pressure, having pressure on someone like him (especially when he's sort of a lead) is useful.
If you wanna call out anyone for bandwagoning you may as well call out TLS, though that's not even worth pursuing.
It was still a bandwagon, you voted me for the same reasons as BB and did it extremely quickly after he did. And if my case isn't solid, how come you keep pushing it?
It wasn't a bandwagon, it was pressure vote. We had this discussion in WoTG, pressure votes are necessary. That's all I was doing. I don't think you're especially scummy, but it wasn't a bandwagon. Not only was my vote not motivated by sheeping, that was only the second vote on you.
You say this as you still haven't responded to the points I made to argue I wasn't sheeping.
No, the point about OMGUS he made a few pages ago. Gekki flat out ignored that until I voted him for disregard for a reason the case didn't work. This one:
It's vague, but it's saying calling out someone for OMGUS in a situation like this (and now even a player with experience like this) doesn't make it scummy at all.
He's my top scum read rn, but that doesn't mean I think he's especially scummy. I'm keeping my vote here because of that. :U
Looking forward to it.
Here's a perfect example of a bandwagon, Gekki.
1. By this logic it's my point and therefore I'm voting you for a completely different reason than BB, which literally makes it not a bandwagon.
2 and 3 are disproven since it's apparently my own point by your own logic.
Because you tried turning it into an actual case and bb didn't?
Can I ask what are your scumreads on me now? Because I've debunked all of the ones you've already brought up and you haven't responded yet.
Just because it's a bandwagon doesn't mean what you did isn't.
It's still sheeping because you were promoting it as a "good point from bb", and using it as basis to vote me.
What about NP? He actually voted TE for it.
TLDR:
-OOC sheepy mentality
-Voting based off of small, shaky points
-Tunneling (It seems like she's out of points that haven't been debunked on me, but still isn't moving her vote.)
-Somewhat over-protective of TE
-A few hypocritical posts/scumreads.
This is actually kind of a townie post, trying to bring quaking into the game as well as answering my question.
He's a new player, and everyone was posting fluff. This post feels unnecessary to me.
Not scummy or townie, nothing of note.
Another null-reading post.
Once again, null. But notice the thing about OMGUS, because she will backpedal off that later.
This post shows a highly OOC sheepy mentality coming from Lorde, and she basically only votes based on the fact that I'm not sheeping bb like she is.
Minor backpedal, and even in this part of the game it is not wise to assume everything that could possibly be a joke as a joke. Seems over-protective of TE.
Null.
1. It's not a joke until TE says it is.
2. Null
3. No, we didn't. You didn't point out what you were referring to, and not to mention it's not even a good point, and once again, it was just your interpretation for it.
A pressure vote? You mean the same thing you attacked me over for putting on TE? :thinking:
P.S: You never posted what you were reading up on, iirc.
More null
Once again, not a joke until TE says it is.
Null
More null
You just said it was a joke like 5 times, and shut my TE vote down based on that...
N U L L
Also I was somewhat wrong about forum mafia being the same everywhere, I'll give you that.
Also null
It was still a bandwagon, you voted me for the same reasons as BB and did it extremely quickly after he did. And if my case isn't solid, how come you keep pushing it?
The amount of votes on me does not matter. And it's fairly obvious it was sheeping.
It's not even a point!
I didn't ignore it, you were being super vague and I had no clue what you were referring to.
Can I ask what are your scumreads on me now? Because I've debunked all of the ones you've already brought up and you haven't responded yet.
Just because it's a bandwagon doesn't mean what you did isn't.
It's still sheeping because you were promoting it as a "good point from bb", and using it as basis to vote me.
What about NP? He actually voted TE for it.
TLDR:
-OOC sheepy mentality
-Voting based off of small, shaky points
-Tunneling (It seems like she's out of points that haven't been debunked on me, but still isn't moving her vote.)
-Somewhat over-protective of TE
-A few hypocritical posts/scumreads.
[/SPOILER]
-OOC sheepy mentality
-Voting based off of small, shaky points
-Tunneling (It seems like she's out of points that haven't been debunked on me, but still isn't moving her vote.)
-Somewhat over-protective of TE
-A few hypocritical posts/scumreads.
Gekki, mind removing all points that actually apply to yourself to in all future cases? I find it strange to read someone as scum for something you're insinuating that you do as town, unless it's extremely off meta.
That means all that's left is:
-OOC sheepy mentality~Although neither sheepy nor mentality are the words I'd use to describe this, her lack of being able to justify her vote rings a lot of alarm bells for me. This is really what's pinging me badly from Lorde.
-Tunneling (It seems like she's out of points that haven't been debunked on me, but still isn't moving her vote.)~Somewhat applicable to you too, though you backpedaled once you realized your tunneling was stupid.
-Somewhat over-protective of TE~Chainsaw defense argument only applies if we see a TE flip.
@NinjaPenguin
I’m not that good at scumreading unless it’s from something I set up like a trick where certain roles will act differently unfortunately they all only work in a small group about 5 people
So this is probably really bad but...
Mariano(?): he seemed pretty hasty to question my lack of response
Mind trying to keep up that kind of stuff out throughout the whole game? Because being too hasty to lynch you is a good point that I didn't notice.
As you watch us play, try to slowly absorb what we do, and try to do some of the scumhunting yourself (or at least comment on cases and/or stuff you find illogical).
Gekki, mind removing all points that actually apply to yourself to in all future cases? I find it strange to read someone as scum for something you're insinuating that you do as town, unless it's extremely off meta.
That means all that's left is:
-OOC sheepy mentality~Although neither sheepy nor mentality are the words I'd use to describe this, her lack of being able to justify her vote rings a lot of alarm bells for me. This is really what's pinging me badly from Lorde.
-Tunneling (It seems like she's out of points that haven't been debunked on me, but still isn't moving her vote.)~Somewhat applicable to you too, though you backpedaled once you realized your tunneling was stupid.
-Somewhat over-protective of TE~Chainsaw defense argument only applies if we see a TE flip.
Mind trying to keep up that kind of stuff out throughout the whole game? Because being too hasty to lynch you is a good point that I didn't notice.
As you watch us play, try to slowly absorb what we do, and try to do some of the scumhunting yourself (or at least comment on cases and/or stuflogical).
Our town metas are different, Lorde doesn't usually do either of the two points you're excluding, while I do. So something can be a scumread for someone while being NAI for someone else, hence it still makes sense to include it in the ISO.
I personally find you to be acting rather defensively. Not entirely surprising, considering you're being targeted, but I'm always wary of those who are defensive. (I'm wary of Gekki as well, and a couple others. It's nothing personal.)
One thing that caught my attention was the huge amount of posts from BB and Lorde justifying TE's behavior. On the other hand, it could be that way because Gekki was trying to build a case on him with so many posts too, but the defense was a little excessive for me because I was expecting TE to defend himself.
Then, both BB and Lorde jumped after Gekki with a curious coordination. That makes me think about a connection between them. So, ##VOTE: Lorde
@bbninjas, @Lord o da rings, and @The Last Shaymin, I'd like to see either new points on me or rebuttals to my responses on your old points, if you're going to keep your votes on me.
Just because I'm not looking in the same places you are doesn't mean I'm not looking. I don't think the cases on Quaking or Jade have any substance to them, hence TE being the only semi-viable vote.
Once again, just because we don't share the same reads does not mean I'm not looking for scumtells.
My point was that TE is not as new as someone like TLS last game, who has no Mafia experience whatsoever. My main reason for voting him was that he didn't say why you were acting strange in that vote, and he just kind of dropped it and left.
Alright, but what specifically about this makes Gekki scummy? IIRC, he tends to have these habits as town as well, like last game, where he tried to present a lynch on bb and me during D1, but he eventually backed off when his case wasn't sticking. He ended up flipping town when he was lynched.
This. I don't really think the mindset thing is actually scummy; the only thing that goes on the list of "weird actions" for me is this contradiction:
"Have you [Gekki] not been screaming at me in Discord for like a week about how bad one site's meta is and how different another one is?
Anyway, ##UNVOTE. I implied earlier but possibly didn't spell it out; this is turning out very similar to last game, so I'm really not feeling a mafian flip. (My initial vote was pressure.)
I also am not feeling this Lorde thing, and after reading a couple of pages on it, I'm a bit confused on what the main points actually are. I see sheeping/bandwagoning? This seems like a very weak reason; Lorde is at worst opportunistic scum, at best scumhunting/pressuring town; and so I just generally read it as neutral. Plus, this logic means that anyone who votes after someone else is bandwagoning, which is false. The only legitimate point that I've seen on Lorde is this one by simsands, about Lorde still voting/arguing against Gekki, and Lorde's response to it didn't make me change my mind.
On another note, NP's much more aggressive and isn't flying under the radar, as compared to last game (when he was scum). I don't know what to make of that though, since NP was also representing us on another site at the time, and they could explain things.
What is scummy is that NP was pressuring and focusing mainly on Gekki (this is after commenting on his mindset), and then in the post below, started switching towards pressuring and focusing nearly entirely on Lorde. The kicker is that I don't see any reason for NP's focus to switch so suddenly - it's not like Gekki gave a great defense to the points NP was focused on that should have changed NP's mind there and then.
What point? Easy bandwagon on a newbie? Or that Gekki didn't get that TE is basically a newbie?
Imagines a QT with Firo (that's what GP's called in Discord btw), Jabber, and IE. Shudders
The fact those two parts are included together, though, certainly makes me think that wasn't a real question. When you ask why something is done, and dismiss the reason immediately by saying you think it's pointless, it's not a very good question.
@bbninjas, @Lord o da rings, and @The Last Shaymin, I'd like to see either new points on me or rebuttals to my responses on your old points, if you're going to keep your votes on me.
