Discussion Mallow/Alolan Sandslash as a deck engine?

Okay, been testing in TCGO without Leles and its crap without Lele so there goes that for me :/. But anyways, i've concocted a list of what's absolutely nessescary:

2-2 Octillery
2 Lele
2x Brigette/Fan Club/Winona. This is what you need to get things moving the first turn.
3x Sycamore. I use these the second turn to try to set up an Octillery and get the engine out ASAP.
Plus sometimes you really need more than two cards.
3x Mallow
4x Ultra Ball
4x VS Seeker

22 Cards

Optional things:

Maintenance. If your deck isnt item heavy you need a way to shrink your hand. Plus without N these can prolong a deck out.

Acro Bike. I don't like these that much here after testing because they try to aggro the engine and it usually doesn't work, but they've been good ocassionally, mainly early game as they make Mallow less of a dead card in the start.

Trainer's Mail. Just a great card in general. This definitely functions without it though and in a Garb infested meta I would tend to lean against it.

Level Ball or Dive Ball. Definitely use these in a deck that can benefit from them anyways. Using them exclusively for getting Octillery out seems silly to me.

I think this would do wonders for any deck that just wants specific cards and not ridiculous burn your deck in five minutes kind of stuff, like @crystal_pidgeot showed in his M Pidgeot deck. Heres a more aggro version:

2-2 Octillery
2 Lele
2x Lillie. You can get sooo many cards on your first turn from this, and it combos with Maintenance, and we have Lele, and we can shrink our hand like mad with Ultra Ball as well, which makes it so you can pull nutty amounts of cards.
4x Acro Bike
4x Mallow
3x Maintenance
4x Ultra Ball
4x VS Seeker

27 cards.

Optional things:

Trainer's Mail. These could replace the Maintenances for added consistency of your combos. Also, if your deck has tons of space, use both!

Level Ball or Dive Ball. I think these are only strong options for decks that can benefit from them anyways, just like before.

Brigette/Fan Club/Winona. You could opt for these over Lillie, to insure a T1 Remoraid, but with Lillie you get more cards, plus im sure you'll be able to find an Ultra Ball or a Remoraid between Maintenance, Acro Bike, and Lillie.

I really like both versions of the engine and I wish I had Leles to test, but oh well. If ifs and buts were candies and nuts we sure would have a wonderful christmas :p. Also, if anyone does have Leles and can test, please let me know how it goes, I'd love to see :)
 
GekkisaiDaiNi said:
Okay, been testing in TCGO without Leles and its crap without Lele so there goes that for me :/. But anyways, i've concocted a list of what's absolutely nessescary:

2-2 Octillery
2 Lele
2x Brigette/Fan Club/Winona. This is what you need to get things moving the first turn.
3x Sycamore. I use these the second turn to try to set up an Octillery and get the engine out ASAP.
Plus sometimes you really need more than two cards.
3x Mallow
4x Ultra Ball
4x VS Seeker

22 Cards

Optional things:

Maintenance. If your deck isnt item heavy you need a way to shrink your hand. Plus without N these can prolong a deck out.

Acro Bike. I don't like these that much here after testing because they try to aggro the engine and it usually doesn't work, but they've been good ocassionally, mainly early game as they make Mallow less of a dead card in the start.

Trainer's Mail. Just a great card in general. This definitely functions without it though and in a Garb infested meta I would tend to lean against it.

Level Ball or Dive Ball. Definitely use these in a deck that can benefit from them anyways. Using them exclusively for getting Octillery out seems silly to me.

I think this would do wonders for any deck that just wants specific cards and not ridiculous burn your deck in five minutes kind of stuff, like @crystal_pidgeot showed in his M Pidgeot deck. Heres a more aggro version:

2-2 Octillery
2 Lele
2x Lillie. You can get sooo many cards on your first turn from this, and it combos with Maintenance, and we have Lele, and we can shrink our hand like mad with Ultra Ball as well, which makes it so you can pull nutty amounts of cards.
4x Acro Bike
4x Mallow
3x Maintenance
4x Ultra Ball
4x VS Seeker

27 cards.

Optional things:

Trainer's Mail. These could replace the Maintenances for added consistency of your combos. Also, if your deck has tons of space, use both!

Level Ball or Dive Ball. I think these are only strong options for decks that can benefit from them anyways, just like before.

Brigette/Fan Club/Winona. You could opt for these over Lillie, to insure a T1 Remoraid, but with Lillie you get more cards, plus im sure you'll be able to find an Ultra Ball or a Remoraid between Maintenance, Acro Bike, and Lillie.

I really like both versions of the engine and I wish I had Leles to test, but oh well. If ifs and buts were candies and nuts we sure would have a wonderful christmas :p. Also, if anyone does have Leles and can test, please let me know how it goes, I'd love to see :)
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The biggest thing with my Pidgeot deck (and I assume other decks as well) is finding the space for other cards. We won't see any change in the common core until rotation happens. I really do like the idea of Maintenance and want to run a few but I have no space and would need to choose that over Super Potion.
 
crystal_pidgeot said:
The biggest thing with my Pidgeot deck (and I assume other decks as well) is finding the space for other cards. We won't see any change in the common core until rotation happens. I really do like the idea of Maintenance and want to run a few but I have no space and would need to choose that over Super Potion.
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Yeah, deck space is a major issue. Another issue is speed and consistency of the combos. Here's an edit i'm considering for the aggro version:

-1 Acro Bike
-1 VS Seeker (VS Seeker is actually one of the first things I turn back when I need space in a deck, and it's done me just fine so far.)
-1 Lillie (This im kind of shaky on because the engines first turns are so bad without it. I think one Maintenance may go instead, but I cant test this so I have no clue which is the right decision.)

+3 Trainer's Mail. I feel like this helps the consistency of a Mallow every turn as we may whiff one otherwise which is crappy. I feel like this engine is divided into three parts right now, the combo pieces, the declunkers, and the things that hold everything together. Honestly, this might be unnecessary with Maintenance and Acro Bike, and may just make it too itemheavy.
 
GekkisaiDaiNi said:
Yeah, deck space is a major issue. Another issue is speed and consistency of the combos. Here's an edit i'm considering for the aggro version:

-1 Acro Bike
-1 VS Seeker (VS Seeker is actually one of the first things I turn back when I need space in a deck, and it's done me just fine so far.)
-1 Lillie (This im kind of shaky on because the engines first turns are so bad without it. I think one Maintenance may go instead, but I cant test this so I have no clue which is the right decision.)

+3 Trainer's Mail. I feel like this helps the consistency of a Mallow every turn as we may whiff one otherwise which is crappy. I feel like this engine is divided into three parts right now, the combo pieces, the declunkers, and the things that hold everything together. Honestly, this might be unnecessary with Maintenance and Acro Bike, and may just make it too itemheavy.
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I feel right now the best way to run this is to have your draw Pokemon of choice (Octillery/A-Sandslash) and Mallow but I want to find what other draw supporters go well with this card, if any at all. I want to avoid the item heavy approach right now but still keep some kind of consistency.
 
crystal_pidgeot said:
I feel right now the best way to run this is to have your draw Pokemon of choice (Octillery/A-Sandslash) and Mallow but I want to find what other draw supporters go well with this card, if any at all. I want to avoid the item heavy approach right now but still keep some kind of consistency.
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Maybe Misty's Determination or Skyla? Another possibility is to use Lillie because the first turns really just aren't there. A sneaky thing that I may try is using Archie's Ace in the Hole to get a T1 Octillery, which would speed things up alot and would make things like Acro Bike less nessescary. Also, something like your Pidgeot deck that isn't aggro at all doesn't really need much backup support, I think it just needs ways to insure a T2 Octillery and a way to make Mallows consistent every turn. I feel like Maintenance->Ultra Ball->Lele->Lillie would actually give this engine explosive first turns as you get rid of five to six cards and then if you can burn the rest of your hand you can get an eight card Lillie. If you do Lillie and you find a Remoraid or an out to Remoraid first turn, second turn you just have to find Octillery and you're pretty much set for the game. Acro Bike is also there if you whiff the T2 Octillery and although it does only get you one card (probably Octillery) it still is a good thing. Anyways, i'll try to think of a way to decrease the items and I'll be back with that shortly.
 
GekkisaiDaiNi said:
Maybe Misty's Determination or Skyla? Another possibility is to use Lillie because the first turns really just aren't there. A sneaky thing that I may try is using Archie's Ace in the Hole to get a T1 Octillery, which would speed things up alot and would make things like Acro Bike less nessescary. Also, something like your Pidgeot deck that isn't aggro at all doesn't really need much backup support, I think it just needs ways to insure a T2 Octillery and a way to make Mallows consistent every turn. I feel like Maintenance->Ultra Ball->Lele->Lillie would actually give this engine explosive first turns as you get rid of five to six cards and then if you can burn the rest of your hand you can get an eight card Lillie. If you do Lillie and you find a Remoraid or an out to Remoraid first turn, second turn you just have to find Octillery and you're pretty much set for the game. Acro Bike is also there if you whiff the T2 Octillery and although it does only get you one card (probably Octillery) it still is a good thing. Anyways, i'll try to think of a way to decrease the items and I'll be back with that shortly.
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This is why I'm still testing the list. There are cards I can't burn, like Max Potion and Puzzle of Time, which is eight cards and I'd hate to burn a Switch for the sake of drawing more, which is why I didn't look at Lillie because there are eight cards I can't play and another four I don't want to play so I have at least 14 cards I can't burn. I do want to run Maintenance because it is useful at dumping cards I can't use in favor of Octillery/Mallow play but I don't want to add more Item cards where I don't too.

On thing I noticed was the need of Skyla in the deck since there were turns I needed to see a Item but couldn't get it but if Maintenance works well, you wont really need it. It's really hard to say for sure.
 
Yog said:
Some good ideas in this thread. I myself am looking to use mallow with some of those "check the top three cards of your deck, if any are energy do x" style attacks.
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To expand on this, I'm having a lot of fun with an Avalugg mill deck on the PCTGO ladder. Takes a few turns to get set up but once you have;
>Mallow two energy to top of deck
>attack & discard three of opponents cards per energy in your own top three
>Aqua Patch energies to bench to set up more Avalugg

So far, so fun. Clunky as hell of course. But hilarious to watch people realise what you are up to. If you can get set up then start hitting the Mallow, you are discarding at least six and maybe nine of their cards. Three or four turns of that is usually enough.
 
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Yog said:
To expand on this, I'm having a lot of fun with an Avalugg mill deck on the PCTGO ladder. Takes a few turns to get set up but once you have;
>Mallow two energy to top of deck
>attack & discard three of opponents cards per energy in your own top three
>Aqua Patch energies to bench to set up more Avalugg

So far, so fun. Clunky as hell of course. But hilarious to watch people realise what you are up to. If you can get set up then start hitting the Mallow, you are discarding at least six and maybe nine of their cards. Three or four turns of that is usually enough.
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OMG I had that same idea! Look up Avalugg/Mallow mill in the deck garage. I think it will get better when Wish Baton comes out so we can keep all the Energy on the board. I bet it's really fun, I should see if I have Avaluggs :D
 
crystal_pidgeot said:
This is why I'm still testing the list. There are cards I can't burn, like Max Potion and Puzzle of Time, which is eight cards and I'd hate to burn a Switch for the sake of drawing more, which is why I didn't look at Lillie because there are eight cards I can't play and another four I don't want to play so I have at least 14 cards I can't burn. I do want to run Maintenance because it is useful at dumping cards I can't use in favor of Octillery/Mallow play but I don't want to add more Item cards where I don't too.

On thing I noticed was the need of Skyla in the deck since there were turns I needed to see a Item but couldn't get it but if Maintenance works well, you wont really need it. It's really hard to say for sure.
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Here's a less item reliant list:

2-2 Octillery
2 Lele
2x Bridgette/Fan Club
3x Maintenance
4x Mallow
3x VS Seeker
4x Ultra Ball

22 Cards
(10 Items)

I don't think we can really drop items completely but I think this would work well for your Pidgeot deck as it keeps Garb below a one-shot on a Mega Pidgeot (assuming you haven't used other items, but at least you won't have to Sycamore away items you can't use at that point like VS Seekers, and I doubt you'll use more than two Maintenances per match, and with Brigette or Fan Club you won't have to use all your Ultra Balls) so I think this will be okay. However, you'll have to be pretty savvy with your Max Potions.
 
I think the future draw engine, post Octillery will be A-Sandslash and Mallow unless we get something else
GekkisaiDaiNi said:
Here's a less item reliant list:

2-2 Octillery
2 Lele
2x Bridgette/Fan Club
3x Maintenance
4x Mallow
3x VS Seeker
4x Ultra Ball

22 Cards
(10 Items)

I don't think we can really drop items completely but I think this would work well for your Pidgeot deck as it keeps Garb below a one-shot on a Mega Pidgeot (assuming you haven't used other items, but at least you won't have to Sycamore away items you can't use at that point like VS Seekers, and I doubt you'll use more than two Maintenances per match, and with Brigette or Fan Club you won't have to use all your Ultra Balls) so I think this will be okay. However, you'll have to be pretty savvy with your Max Potions.
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I cut Sycamore from my list a LONG time ago because I didn't want to discard useful cards but I had a single copy in the deck but I since remove that as well. I have added a copy of Winona and Fan Club. I do want two Fan Club but I feel the option to find any amount of birds I want is too good but I may cut a second Ultra ball just to test a second Fan Club, going more supporter base. What I want is a better way to get Octillery and it's a shame that there aren't any Supporter options to get Basic and Evolution cards into play or the hand but I feel going Item heave for one deck that we don't have that bad a match against is a bad option.

I do feel I want to go up to four Mallow and I do want to test Maintenance. My list runs three Remoraid since it's part of the engine and I need to get at least two into play and I want to avoid prizing any so I think the extra space for it is worth it, plus its not that bad to start with. I will be looking for space for sure.
 
Yeah it's always fun when you get two Octillery out.

We've got to watch out for a less item based list though because the more non items you run, the more you'll clog up your hand and the less effective Octillery will be.
 
So I was using Mallow in a Turtonator deck combo'd with Acro Bike deck where I want energy in the discard early, when a situation arose that I had never considered, and that is Scorched Earth draw.

For those unfamiliar: Once during each player’s turn, that player may discard a [R] or [F] Energy card from his or her hand. If that player does so, he or she draws 2 cards.

So in fire or fighting decks, Mallow can gift you any two cards you need. Maybe obvious, but not something I'd even thought of until I had the cards in my hand to do the thing.

Neat.
 
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Yog said:
So I was using Mallow in a Turtonator deck with Acro Bike deck where I want energy in the discard early, when a situation arose that I had never considered, and that is Scorched Earth draw.

For those unfamiliar: Once during each player’s turn, that player may discard a [R] or [F] Energy card from his or her hand. If that player does so, he or she draws 2 cards.

So in fire decks, Mallow can gift you any two cards you need. Maybe obvious, but not something I'd even thought of until I had the cards in my hand to do the thing.

Neat.
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That is always a play you can make. I'm testing Wally in my deck and its been working well.
 
21times said:
Wow Yog genius!!! I hadn't even thought of that!
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ikr? So obvious it hadn't even occurred to me either until the cards were right there in front of me :v

Pretty good for specific draw instead of just scattershot in this age of Garb-conservation. All of a sudden, she is Korrina of a sort for the aul' Rare Candy +Stage 2 play.

I might have to up her count now..
 
Yog said:
ikr? So obvious it hadn't even occurred to me either until the cards were right there in front of me :v

Pretty good for specific draw instead of just scattershot in this age of Garb-conservation. All of a sudden, she is Korrina of a sort for the aul' Rare Candy +Stage 2 play.

I might have to up her count now..
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I'm wanting to go up to four. For me, it's one of those cards I fine with being at three but there are those times I just want a forth copy.
 
Well I was only at one and thinking about a second :p

What list are you talking about exactly? You mean as just your general engine or something more specific? Fair 'nuff in advance if this is a deck you want to keep to yourself but I am interested all of a sudden in the applications of such a card.
 
Yog said:
Well I was only at one and thinking about a second :p

What list are you talking about exactly? You mean as just your general engine or something more specific? Fair 'nuff in advance if this is a deck you want to keep to yourself but I am interested all of a sudden in the applications of such a card.
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I'm talking about my Pidgeot list but I think for Octillery and Mallow in general. I think if you're trying to be cute with Mallow, you should at least make it your engine rather than a "hey, I can do this" kind of thing but I guess in your case, it may work fine as is.
 
crystal_pidgeot said:
I'm talking about my Pidgeot list but I think for Octillery and Mallow in general. I think if you're trying to be cute with Mallow, you should at least make it your engine rather than a "hey, I can do this" kind of thing but I guess in your case, it may work fine as is.
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Yeah, ive had some sucess with it in some of my decks that already run Acro Bike and some kind of card-draw as backup, or for that awkward moment when you really just need one card but you can't find it :T
 
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