This thread is used to dicuss what the strongest and most seen decks will be for LCC, Cities and Winter Reigonals.
Meta Predictions for Upcoming Tournaments
- Thread starter littywitty
- Start date
RE: Meta Predictions for Cities
Predictions:
Tier 1
Blastoise
Virizion variants
Darkrai variants (both)
Tier 2
Plasma
There's sort of a triad at this time. One could argue that one or the other of the Darkrai variants could be dropped to tier 2.
Yes, it definitely is. Black Kyurem EX and the fact that it isn't hurt at all by the new rules give it a lot of options.Mora said:
Predictions:
Tier 1
Blastoise
Virizion variants
Darkrai variants (both)
Tier 2
Plasma
There's sort of a triad at this time. One could argue that one or the other of the Darkrai variants could be dropped to tier 2.
RE: Meta Predictions for Cities
But Genesect can Red Signal OHKO Blastoise, OHKO Keldeo which "Blastoise / Keldeo" still plays, and OHKO Black Kyurem with G-Booster. You could argue it does anything Black Kyurem can do but better. Not to mention the fact that Virizion can donk Squirtles. If there are a lot of Genesect (which apparently that deck is really popular at the moment, at least in my area), I don't foresee Blastoise doing as well.
But Genesect can Red Signal OHKO Blastoise, OHKO Keldeo which "Blastoise / Keldeo" still plays, and OHKO Black Kyurem with G-Booster. You could argue it does anything Black Kyurem can do but better. Not to mention the fact that Virizion can donk Squirtles. If there are a lot of Genesect (which apparently that deck is really popular at the moment, at least in my area), I don't foresee Blastoise doing as well.
RE: Meta Predictions for Cities
I actually think the straight Darkrai variant fell out of Tier 1 due to the new catcher ruling. One could argue that it's still as powerful as ever due to Energy Switch, but it really needs to be able to pull off those snipe KO's and without a reliable way to do that, or a reliable way to kill Mime for that matter, it loses a lot of luster.
Keep in mind G-Booster is much harder to use than Black Kyurem EX.
But anyway, that's always been the argument. The community tended to agree that it was slightly in Genesects favor, but very close to even. I actually think Blastoise fares slightly better now; Genesect gains Energy Switch which is a massive asset but is forced to burn an attachment to catcher things up now, meanwhile Blastoise barely even gets hurt by the rule changes since it can still easily function without catcher.
I actually think the straight Darkrai variant fell out of Tier 1 due to the new catcher ruling. One could argue that it's still as powerful as ever due to Energy Switch, but it really needs to be able to pull off those snipe KO's and without a reliable way to do that, or a reliable way to kill Mime for that matter, it loses a lot of luster.
Mora said:
Keep in mind G-Booster is much harder to use than Black Kyurem EX.
But anyway, that's always been the argument. The community tended to agree that it was slightly in Genesects favor, but very close to even. I actually think Blastoise fares slightly better now; Genesect gains Energy Switch which is a massive asset but is forced to burn an attachment to catcher things up now, meanwhile Blastoise barely even gets hurt by the rule changes since it can still easily function without catcher.
RE: Meta Predictions for Cities
I will agree that Virizion / Genesect could become a potential BDIF seeing as how it loses a resource it can use itself while gaining a much more potent product in the form of energy switch.
As for Utah's baby, Virizion / Mewtwo, I was talking to Karl on if it will really change where it lied for the meta that was established for it after Fall Reigonals, he said how he can just as easily run Ninetales since the deck only really needs 1-2 catchers to really function, along with town map, a 2-2 line is optimal for the deck.
As for Darkrai, I believe that its place in the meta hasn't changed at all since the rotation, putting it at 1.5 IMO, and that is where it will stay. I have tested with Darkrai throughout the season before and after the catcher errata and Ive found the deck to be a little less optimal on my side of the field, but it gains more than it loses with the catcher errata with the Blastoise matchup being a little better since now you can sacrifice weaklings to the BK, or have the Keldeo suffer from Frozen City along with other situation while seeing as how Sableye can spam catchers with Junk Hunt and Dowsing Machine, while Im on the point of Dowsing Machine that makes it that much more of a powerful Ace-spec for Darkrai, income a situations where you need a catcher and maybe a laser to win, say there are 1-2 lasers left in the deck and 2-3 in the discard, what can arise is that Sableye can Junk Hunt for a Catcher and a Dowsing Machine, say you flip tails on the flip, you can dowsing machine for that catcher to take another whack at it, say this one is heads, you can just try to draw into the laser FTW. But say that first catcher was a heads, you would've had game in hand Dowsing for the laser.
Blastoise on the other hand will still stay an optimal play, but will be exhausting more resources to win a game, making Dowsing Machine the new favorable Ace-spec for Blastoise.
I will agree that Virizion / Genesect could become a potential BDIF seeing as how it loses a resource it can use itself while gaining a much more potent product in the form of energy switch.
As for Utah's baby, Virizion / Mewtwo, I was talking to Karl on if it will really change where it lied for the meta that was established for it after Fall Reigonals, he said how he can just as easily run Ninetales since the deck only really needs 1-2 catchers to really function, along with town map, a 2-2 line is optimal for the deck.
As for Darkrai, I believe that its place in the meta hasn't changed at all since the rotation, putting it at 1.5 IMO, and that is where it will stay. I have tested with Darkrai throughout the season before and after the catcher errata and Ive found the deck to be a little less optimal on my side of the field, but it gains more than it loses with the catcher errata with the Blastoise matchup being a little better since now you can sacrifice weaklings to the BK, or have the Keldeo suffer from Frozen City along with other situation while seeing as how Sableye can spam catchers with Junk Hunt and Dowsing Machine, while Im on the point of Dowsing Machine that makes it that much more of a powerful Ace-spec for Darkrai, income a situations where you need a catcher and maybe a laser to win, say there are 1-2 lasers left in the deck and 2-3 in the discard, what can arise is that Sableye can Junk Hunt for a Catcher and a Dowsing Machine, say you flip tails on the flip, you can dowsing machine for that catcher to take another whack at it, say this one is heads, you can just try to draw into the laser FTW. But say that first catcher was a heads, you would've had game in hand Dowsing for the laser.
Blastoise on the other hand will still stay an optimal play, but will be exhausting more resources to win a game, making Dowsing Machine the new favorable Ace-spec for Blastoise.
RE: Meta Predictions for Cities
Wait what? Since when was Dowsing not the favorable choice for Blastoise decks?
You need So many trainer cards, and having a card which gives you +1 on everything once, is so amazing for Blastoise, this season or last season.
IMO, Blastoise is BDIF. You can cut the catcher and achieve more Consistency this way. Those 3 cards really help you out. I had Blastoise turn 2 17/18 games at a regionals this weekend (FYI I made it to the final, lost it though), I know luck also plays a role but still, that is pretty darn good. Also, you are capable of OHKO everything in the format, and a single max potion can save so many games for you.
littywitty said:
Wait what? Since when was Dowsing not the favorable choice for Blastoise decks?
You need So many trainer cards, and having a card which gives you +1 on everything once, is so amazing for Blastoise, this season or last season.
IMO, Blastoise is BDIF. You can cut the catcher and achieve more Consistency this way. Those 3 cards really help you out. I had Blastoise turn 2 17/18 games at a regionals this weekend (FYI I made it to the final, lost it though), I know luck also plays a role but still, that is pretty darn good. Also, you are capable of OHKO everything in the format, and a single max potion can save so many games for you.
RE: Meta Predictions for Cities
When I said that, I think a lot people can agree that Computer Search and Dowsing Machine were pretty head and head as the best acespec for Blastoise. Now, Computer could still be a viable option, but I think most people will go for Dowsing Machine now.Baby_BI said:
RE: Meta Predictions for Cities
I can see your point in CPS being viable, but Dowsing is just (IMO) a so much better choice, and it fits in on every point CPS does and more. But I guess it WAS a matter of taste. But there should be no doubt Dowsing is the best 1 now.
littywitty said:
I can see your point in CPS being viable, but Dowsing is just (IMO) a so much better choice, and it fits in on every point CPS does and more. But I guess it WAS a matter of taste. But there should be no doubt Dowsing is the best 1 now.
At last month's IN Regional tournament, there were more Virizion EX variants "than expected" and a number of my Poké pals stated later that "Blastoise" was THE deck to play that day. IMHO, Blastoise remains in the Tier 1 group no doubt.
I haven't played the deck, but I know that Empoleon / Dusknoir has had a lot of success at League Challenges and Regionals since the rule changes. Not Tier 1, but probably a Tier 2 contender.
At a lot of League Challenges, Darkrai and Blastoise are very, very prevalent. I know that one near me was almost 110% those decks. Then again, Klinklang also saw a decent amount of play at this event.
At a lot of League Challenges, Darkrai and Blastoise are very, very prevalent. I know that one near me was almost 110% those decks. Then again, Klinklang also saw a decent amount of play at this event.
Serperior said:
Apparently. I didn't get a chance to make it to this one, but someone I know that was there said that out of the actual competitive decks, 70% were Blastoise or Darkrai, and 15% were Klinklang. It did make Top 8 at a Regionals, and it got non-EX Cobalion back from LTR, but I really didn't see it making a comeback either.
Virizion EX variants (Genesect EX and Mewtwo EX) are expected to be popular, as well as Empoleon. Darkrai EX variants are also popular in my area.
Emboar/Delphox seems like it has some great potential since Delphox's ability Mystical Fire more than makes up for not being able to afford Tropical Beach in the deck, and the synergy Blaze Ball has when using Inferno Fandango is amazing If you manage to get enough Fire energy in hand. If Blastoise is still a problem you can always run a 2-2 or 3-3 Leafeon tech for Energy Crush, but aside from that Emboar/Delphox is arguably the best anti-metagame counter against Virizion/Genesect unless it techs in Garbodor to shutdown Mystical Fire.
I wouldnt go as far as to say that a deck with 2 stage 2's in it would be able to stand the format. Although, I would like to stay on the topic of this thread which is the meta for LCC, Cities, and Winter Reigonals. Most likely, XY base set will be coming out after these events.
I believe that Darkrai variants will be the most heavily played during cities. It is the cheapest competitive deck and lost nothing post rotation now that we have energy switch back.