Muk Lock (Muk, Metagross, Mismagius, Vileplume)

[Force2BRW]

RE: Muk Lock (Muk, Mismagius, Zoroark, Vileplume)

Sure no problem. How long have you been playing Pokemon TCG? and if you go to a members profile you can look at all the threads they have posted!

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Can you get on the chat? If so, give me a time and i will meet you on there! Then I can give you tips on your other deck and also talk about strategies for this deck. (Just by the by... I think this deck is much, much better then the victereebel deck)

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I've been playing for about...idk 2 months? I played for my first time ever about 3 months ago at a convention, and then played for real for the first time at a Black and White Prerelease

I would chat, but i have to leave soon.

Thanks for the help tho. Maybe we can chat another time. Do you play on redshark? If so, what network(s)?

You're right, I think this deck will end up being better. If not for the only fact that it doesn't have the inherent weakness to fire. It also has a pokemon that can survive most any attack at least once, and relies a little bit less on luck (but still needs some luck)

 

[PokePhenom]

RE: Muk Lock (Muk, Mismagius, Zoroark, Vileplume)

Actaully I dont play on redsahrk but Ive been looking into it! Ill let you know

*Edit- I mostly test at league because we have some BOSS players there!

 

[Force2BRW]

RE: Muk Lock (Muk, Mismagius, Zoroark, Vileplume)

Actaully I don't play on redsahrk but Ive been looking into it! Ill let you know

*Edit- I mostly test at league because we have some BOSS players there!

I did actually go to a league nearby. I haven't been able to go recently because of other stuff coming up, but I should start being able to go most every week now. However, last time i was there, there were only 2 others besides me, and only 1 other had any recent cards, so hopefully there will be more now.

It's fine to use proxies at leagues right? I was just going to use some proxies until I got some of the cards.

 

[PokePhenom]

RE: Muk Lock (Muk, Mismagius, Zoroark, Vileplume)

yes, its fine to use proxies but you should probably forewarn the other player first. and league doesnt work for all players so redshark is your next best bet! I will try to figure it out because Ive never seen it or know anything about it...

 

[Force2BRW]

RE: Muk Lock (Muk, Mismagius, Zoroark, Vileplume)

yes, its fine to use proxies but you should probably forewarn the other player first. and league doesnt work for all players so redshark is your next best bet! I will try to figure it out because Ive never seen it or know anything about it...

I was lucky to play against somebody who was very knowledgeable with the program my first time playing, so he helped me with anything that needed to be done. It's pretty simple to understand once you get used to it. A lot of times, I actually just play myself, and test my deck out against some of the more popular decks. It helps you see mistakes so that you don't make them when you are playing real people. It's a simple set up to (I think there is a full tutorial somewhere on this site. It's what I read to get it started and figure out how to play)

 

[PokePhenom]

RE: Muk Lock (Muk, Mismagius, Zoroark, Vileplume)

Cool! I have to get home first before I download it... currently Im in montana..

 

[Force2BRW]

RE: Muk Lock (Muk, Mismagius, Zoroark, Vileplume)

So here is my newest, updates list:

31 Pokemon

3-3 Muk UD
3-3 Mismagius (2 UL, 1 CL)
3-3-3 Metagross UL
2-2-2 Vileplume UD
4 Cleffa CL

15 T/S/S

4 Elm
3 Collectors
2 Copycat
1 Oak
2 Rare candy
1 Fisherman
2 Seeker

14 Energy

4 DCE
10 Psy

What do you think?

 

[PokePhenom]

RE: Muk Lock (Muk, Mismagius, Zoroark, Vileplume)

Have you played a few matchs with it? How fast do you get set up ussaully? IMHO you NEED more T/S/S and less pokemon. starting this wensday I will be able to play and test with you over redshark a ton so we can make changes!

 

[julliant]

RE: Muk Lock (Muk, Mismagius, Zoroark, Vileplume)

I'll cut down the Metagross line to 2-2-2, and Muk to 2-2.


That's 5 spots, so max out the Rare Candy and put 3 more Supporters, I'd suggest 1 Oak, 1 Judge and 1 Twins. Judge plus Trainer lock and take Supporter cards an energy cards your opponent has, play it when Metagross is dominating.

I don't think you need 4 DCE as well. Again, needs more TSS.


PS - Needs 1 more Oddish. 40HP means Yanmega Prime eats it.

 

[Force2BRW]

RE: Muk Lock (Muk, Mismagius, Zoroark, Vileplume)

I'll cut down the Metagross line to 2-2-2, and Muk to 2-2.


That's 5 spots, so max out the Rare Candy and put 3 more Supporters, I'd suggest 1 Oak, 1 Judge and 1 Twins. Judge plus Trainer lock and take Supporter cards an energy cards your opponent has, play it when Metagross is dominating.

I don't think you need 4 DCE as well. Again, needs more TSS.


PS - Needs 1 more Oddish. 40HP means Yanmega Prime eats it.

I've only been able to playtest myself so far, but hopefully I'll get to play some others tomorrow (I always test myself against a Reshiboar deck with Ninetails and Typhlosion, or something similar, as it will be a very popular deck) That is my only testing so far tho.

I'm hesitant to run my main attackers (Muk and Metagross) in lines of 2, because if one of them gets stuck in prizes (decent chance with 10 pokemon), that leaves me with only 1 main attacker. If it gets knocked out, all I have left is the other guy, and the work best as a team. And I'm not running any rescue energy (which doesn't fit with the pokemon's attacks even if i wanted to), so I don't have any way to get them back.

And with my testing, so far i've been equal or ahead on prizes, so the twins have yet to work for me (this would probably change against a speed deck, but I actually don't know the set up, or how to play any of the speed decks right now to test against on my own). Also, i've been finding that this deck has a chance on it's own, even without Vileplume. My other build relies almost entirely on the trainer lock to win, but this one is more flexible, and has done well in testing even without the lock. (again, we will see further once i play against actual people) So I'll see how it goes with just 2 Oddish. If I find that Yanmega Prime is making it into like 50% of decks, then I'll add one in, but until then, I try not to worry about lower percentage opponents just yet (I've only played one person at tournaments w/ yanmega prime in his deck, and I beat him with my Victreebel/Vileplume deck, and all of those pokemon are 40 hp basics (granted, they were both slightly different builds, since it was pre hs rotation, but mine was very close to the same as it is now).

And finally, at least as of my solo testing, I don't need as many supporters because I have cleffa, who can give me a PONT. So far I have only been stuck with a useless hand once or twice, but eventually played out of it. We will see how real-world testing goes.

Also, I've added one Tyrogue and taken out one Cleffa to this mix. It's a low percentage chance, but If my opponent only has 1 active Cleffa/other baby pokemon (which is more probable than it used to be, with the lower amount of basic pokemon being played, and many of them running Cleffas as starters), and I go first, or his Cleffa is awake when it gets to me, I can either have Tyrogue active, search for him with collector, or hope some kind of hand refresh finds him, and ko cleffa for the donk. It's low percentage, but it may happen a few times. and even if I don't get another baby, I can still do damage first turn, and I am still running 3 cleffa, so I should have some if I need to start with him, or use him for a hand refresh.

Hopefully I'll get some good games in tomorrow, so I'll let you know how it goes if I do.

 

[PokePhenom]

Hmmm, you bring up some valid points.. but I still think it lacks in speed but we will see come.. tuesday-ish haha. (day I get home)
When you solo test do you legitly try to beat your muk deck?

 

[Force2BRW]

Hmmm, you bring up some valid points.. but I still think it lacks in speed but we will see come.. tuesday-ish haha. (day I get home)
When you solo test do you legitly try to beat your muk deck?

Ya, I try to play it as if I don't know what the other person has. Which is hard sometimes, because you do know what they have. But I make a decision of my next move based on what I would do in a real life situation given my options (for both sides). However, I may not have the best reshiboar build, as it's pretty generic, and I don't know what all the top decks are, or exactly how to play them, so it's hard for me to test against all the good stuff. You might have a better chance since you said you have some guys that are really good at your league. So you may be able to give it a better test than me (maybe even ask what other guys think about the build)

 

[PokePhenom]

Yeah we actually have a few players who are ranked highly in the world standings... Ian W #1 in the world and jaron D and some others who are in the top70's in rating

Anyways I currently run Blastgatr and a Speed donk deck that is iteresting but Im still working on that one! my league goes on every tuesday. So I will ask them about it then!

 

[Force2BRW]

Yeah we actually have a few players who are ranked highly in the world standings... Ian W #1 in the world and jaron D and some others who are in the top70's in rating

Anyways I currently run Blastgatr and a Speed donk deck that is iteresting but Im still working on that one! my league goes on every tuesday. So I will ask them about it then!

cool. let me know what they say, and if they have any suggestions. so far i have won about 2/3 of my games with this deck, many of them from behind (metagross can end up getting lots of double kos for the comeback). This deck takes some pretty deep strategy sometimes too, and you have to try and predict what will happen. I think it's really fun to play

I've added one more tech to this deck too. I took out the 1 Tyrogue for 1 Jirachi (CL). Tyrogue can only help me if i get him first, and I've only gotten him as a starter once (altho, I think he did get a ko or two, but after the beginning of the game, he is basically worthless, as I would much rather have a Cleffa out there to try and build my bench). Jirachi is good for mid to late game (like after a metagross gets koed), and can be very good in certain situations. It has a poke power that lets you flip 3 coins, and attach a psychic energy to him for each heads. great at getting more energy on the board, which is sometimes the problem i run into late game, since you can only attach one at a time. And since i already have Mismagius to move around energy, just getting it in play means I can really speed up my set ups after a ko or something.

Also, Jirachi's attack lets you deevolve 1 pokemon for each psy energy attached. I didn't use it right when I played you last time, so i'm trying to figure out how to capitalize on it. The two biggest uses for it is 1) to use Metagross to do enough damage so that deevolving the pokemon will ko them (this could get multiple kos in one turn), or 2) if they get someone set up using rare candy before I can set up vileplume, once i get vile up, deevolve them to their basic form, and they can no longer use rare candy to get back to stage 2. so it will be a slower process. Or another thing I can do, is if I know they have a stage 2 in their hand and a stage 1 on the field, I can deevolve their stage 1, so they have to wait an extra turn to evolve to stage 2. And assuming i have metagross up, i can retreat jirachi whenever I want.

So we will see if i can play this right, but I think it might help more than tyrogue, since it's searchable, and useful at multiple points in the game, rather than just the beginning. (however, i also lose the ability to have a chance at a donk, so I'll try to test it out and see which one would be more helpful in the long run)

 

[Mr.Pokemon]

I think this that the 2 copycat is a lot less useful than you might think, espescially if you have cleffa, I think you should add 2 pluspowers because with zoroark it can 1 hit ko Reshiram and Zekrom, I run these with my Zoroark and it helps alot.

 

[Force2BRW]

I think this that the 2 copycat is a lot less useful than you might think, espescially if you have cleffa, I think you should add 2 pluspowers because with zoroark it can 1 hit ko Reshiram and Zekrom, I run these with my Zoroark and it helps alot.

I've changed up the lineup (its right below the original). I originally ran zoroark w/ special dark energy (+10 attack), but moved to metagross instead via suggestions, but that's a good idea for the original list.

See if you have any suggestions for the newest build! Thanks

 

[Mr.Pokemon]

-2 Seekers - Not as useful as you might think.
-3 Psychic energy - With 7 psychic energy you'll be fine and you have the DCE's for Metagross and Muk.
-0-1-0 Metagross (Metang) - With rare candies, this just takes up space.
-0-1-0 Vileplume (Gloom) - ^
-7

+ 2 Rare Candies - These help so much and spped up the deck alot.
+ 1 Jirachi - This guy is pretty awesome.
+ 1 Bouffalant revenge - A really good tech to Reshiram and Zekrom, which by my guess will be two of the most popular decks in HGSS-on.
+2 Twins - In case you face a ZPS or get unlucky with cleffa, these will help you make a comeback.
+ 1 Switch - In case you don't have Metagross out and you just need to get outta there.
+7

 

[Force2BRW]

-2 Seekers - Not as useful as you might think.
-3 Psychic energy - With 7 psychic energy you'll be fine and you have the DCE's for Metagross and Muk.
-0-1-0 Metagross (Metang) - With rare candies, this just takes up space.
-0-1-0 Vileplume (Gloom) - ^
-7

+ 2 Rare Candies - These help so much and spped up the deck alot.
+ 1 Jirachi - This guy is pretty awesome.
+ 1 Bouffalant revenge - A really good tech to Reshiram and Zekrom, which by my guess will be two of the most popular decks in HGSS-on.
+2 Twins - In case you face a ZPS or get unlucky with cleffa, these will help you make a comeback.
+ 1 Switch - In case you don't have Metagross out and you just need to get outta there.
+7

These would be good changes if I wasn't running a Trainer Lock deck. The rare candies become useless once i get the lock up, and i only run the 2 i have in case I can get my Vileplume up faster (which I've been able to do a surprising percentage of the time)

Also, I'm hesitant to pull out a metang from my deck, because If i get trainer lock up, and one metang gets prized, I now only have 1 metagross to work with, and since he is one of, if not the main attacker, I'd be screwed.

Also, i almost exclusively use metagross' second attack, which is 3 psy energy. So i need a lot of psy. I find 10 to be a good balance. (also, metagross allows free retreat w/ psy energy, so I can magical transfer it and retreat if someone w/ no energy got stuck out there.

And honestly, i've found seeker to be way more helpful than i originally planned. It has won me a handful of games by itself, or really messed up/slowed down the other guy. yes, i can still use it to heal, as i originally had it in there for, but it can also help me win games just by itself (ex: i've won games against someone who only had 1 bench, and 1 attacker, seeker up his bench, and ko the attacker. Another time, they had 3 bench (2 w/ damage from metagross) 1 attacker (less than 60 health) first turn, ko the 2 bench, he didn't put another bench down, and couldn't ohko metagross, so second turn seeker up his bench and ko). Sometimes I even use it if they have more than one bench, but both have some set up to them (either lots of energy or evolutions), and that forces him to start the set up over, buying me some more time.

I actually did add in a jirachi (took out the tyrogue that I had put in for one of the cleffas), and am trying it out to see how good it works in the deck. I like buffolant, but it takes up bench space that I don't have right now, so idk if i can fit him in, while keeping my set up consistent.

I've also thought about a twins, but I'm not always consistently coming from behind, and all the hand refreshing and evolve (elm, oak, copycat, cleffa) cards has gotten me what i need most of the time. But i might try it again to see if i can use it more often this time.

Thanks for the ideas, and let me know what you think of my responses.

 

[Mr.Pokemon]

Ok, those were my thoughts on the way I play, more than likely you play differently and I'll tet with you on redshark, if I can get it working and I can get on the chat if you want.

The only reason I suggested rare candy was to speed up the deck. I've never used this deck, so it may be fast enough, I don't know.

The reaon I suggested this was because of the rare candies.

As I stated before I have never used his deck so I wouldn't know, you know alot more about this deck and seems like a great deck and I might want to try it sometime. Espesially considering the cards are farely cheap.

If it works, definitely keep it, I'm actually thinking about tryng it now.

I know, my point was to add in another.

I always run twins because when I hit a Zekrom or any donk for that matter deck, I want an advantage.

Good luck with the deck, it looks like it wll work really well.

FYI: Your signature is messed up.
The code is: Remove *s
v The text goes there
[u*rl= *]Te*xt goes here[/u*rl]
^URL goes here
EX:[ur*l=http://www.pokebeach*.com/forums/thread-s*cizurott-scizor-samurott]Help With My Deck![/url*]

 

[Force2BRW]

Ok, those were my thoughts on the way I play, more than likely you play differently and I'll tet with you on redshark, if I can get it working and I can get on the chat if you want.

The only reason I suggested rare candy was to speed up the deck. I've never used this deck, so it may be fast enough, I don't know.

The reaon I suggested this was because of the rare candies.

As I stated before I have never used his deck so I wouldn't know, you know alot more about this deck and seems like a great deck and I might want to try it sometime. Espesially considering the cards are farely cheap.

If it works, definitely keep it, I'm actually thinking about tryng it now.

I know, my point was to add in another.

I always run twins because when I hit a Zekrom or any donk for that matter deck, I want an advantage.

Good luck with the deck, it looks like it wll work really well.

FYI: Your signature is messed up.
The code is: Remove *s
v The text goes there
[u*rl= *]Te*xt goes here[/u*rl]
^URL goes here
EX:[ur*l=http://www.pokebeach*.com/forums/thread-s*cizurott-scizor-samurott]Help With My Deck![/url*]

Ya. It's a fun deck, and really not that expensive at all. If you are considering it, you can just try it out with proxies first and see how you like it. I have a twins in there before, but when I was able to use it, I normally ended up using it to get energy rather than pokemon, so it seemed stupid, and I just replaced it with energy. But maybe it will work better now since i have more experience with the deck. I actually ran 4 rare candies before, but found them to take up too much deck space. Normally, my first goal is to set up Vileplume, and I really only need 1 rare candy to do that, but put in 2 for a higher probability. I could add in 2 more, but after the lock is up, they are just a waste of deck space. However, twins might be good, as it allows you to search out rare candies. So i might try putting 1 or 2 in.

Right now, i see my biggest weaknesses to be early speed decks, and lostgar. I run a lot of pokemon, so lostgar can beat me, and I run a stage 2, so speed can hurt me (however, since 2 of my main guys are stage 1, they can set up relatively quickly. Muk with 1 psy energy can throw a wrench into a speed deck by pulling someone out, and forcing them to burn their attachment for the turn to retreat. and if I can get a t2 or t3 trainer lock, speed decks normally rely on heavy trainer lines, which can slow them down a lot, and possibly get huge damage with Mismagius CL. Most i've ever gotten was 240 damage w/ him.)

I'll continue to test and tweak it. And I would love to playtest with you sometime via redshark (if you have a network you frequent, let me know, and maybe we can set up a time)

And thanks for the signature help, I'm still kind of confused by it, but I'll try to fix it.