It's not noticeably less though, because most of the work in creating a game comes from the actual construction/coding of the game and testing/debugging. Remakes just cut down on the amount of planning that they'd be doing. Sure, remakes take less time to make, but not to the point where they can just pump out 3 or 4 remakes in the next year or two.
I understood from what Fancy was saying, that the they have slightly more time to work on things like secret bases and contests in the game, not that they have more time to make and pump out multiple games.
Personally, I think what really happens is that they get shorten two stages of the development. They don't have to sit down with a team of writers and design a plot, characters, dialogue ... Etc. For this stage of game production, they can do much less writing, focusing on aditonallu cur scenes and minor tweaks to update plots and some NPC talk. They already have the characters, the over all plot, even their dialogue. They'd still take time for additions, but much less, and the time taken would be focused mainly into new/improved story content.
The other thing that would be shortened is some of the mechanic stuff. They have the battle engine from X/Y. They aren't making new models for the attacking Pokemon, the have Amie already finished... A lot of that is just copy pasting and minor tweaking. Not completely rewriting from scratch. They do have to build the world of Hoenn, but they don't have to build the enfinenits running on.I imagine they use some of that time/brain power/money on rewriting new mechanics they don't have an engine for, like contests and secret bases.
You have no idea what he was discussing, do you? He was saying that he think they're going to release a string of remakes for 6th gen before even making Z/XY2. Side features have nothing to do with this, it's about how frequently they can release games.
You have no idea what he was discussing, do you? He was saying that he think they're going to release a string of remakes for 6th gen before even making Z/XY2. Side features have nothing to do with this, it's about how frequently they can release games.
Guess not, sorry. I didn't realize he meant multiple games at all. Thought he was just commenting that it would take less time to make. When he said "remakes" I thought he just meant Alpha Sapphire and Omega Ruby, and when he said "produce more' I thought he meant content, not games. My bad! I do apologize.
It's not noticeably less though, because most of the work in creating a game comes from the actual construction/coding of the game and testing/debugging. Remakes just cut down on the amount of planning that they'd be doing. Sure, remakes take less time to make, but not to the point where they can just pump out 3 or 4 remakes in the next year or two.
Oh, now I get what you're saying. Yes, time for the actual construction/coding of the game and testing/debugging will account for a lot of the time spent, but the development/planning period would still account for plenty I believe: The pokemon, the movepools, the stats, the dexes, etc and they create around 70-100+ each main-series game? That alone is a lot of planning, testing the new pokemon, and debugging them as well as compared to prior pokemon where all pokemon from the start and up to X and Y have been created and put into the game's data. It would seem to me they could reuse those library of elements and import the past pokemon featured in X and Y into the Remakes themselves, the games are composed on computers and what not so reusing those specific pokemon assets seems possible.
The representation of the game such as the locations you travel, routes, buildings, events, activities, etc. would take a large amount of construction and coding and testing/debugging, remakes will not get around that, true. But it is the same for that of the Main-Series titles, they aren't reusing past assets from the games in the GBA, but recreating, it's true. But their work may be cut down a little, and without that development period, it stands to be a little shorter by when the next pokemon games come out.
Not as in 'pump 3 or 4 remakes out in a year' short, but push out a remake every year or close to it as opposed to waiting multiple years for the next pokemon game to come out, such as ORAS debuting in November when just a year ago X and Y took center stage in Pokemon's spotlight.
Let's look at Pokemon Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald: specifically their Japanese Release Date because that was the first one to release before it released internationally. It debuted in 2002, Emerald would later debut in 2004. Diamond and Pearl would debut in 2006 in Japan, while Platinum would come later in 2008. Pokemon Black and White would debut in 2010.. The Sequel versions would come just two years later, in 2012. Two Year Separations are a noticeable pattern between these games and their third version, but now X and Y released in 2013 while Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire are releasing just the next year after, internationally?
Yes, but we have yet to see a third version hit the shelves for X and Y even though we haven't quite hit that two year time period; nonetheless, GameFreak is pushing out this remake instead while we eagerly anticipate Pokemon Z or X2 and Y2 and now Delta Emerald? Main-series games will come, but whether or not it will continue off X and Y or Ruby and Sapphire is mere speculation until confirmation; we haven't even reached our staple pattern of releasing sequels or third versions in two years. This deviation could mean something, my responses here postulate that it means they may release remakes and other Main-Series Titles before X2, Y2, or Z and continue with remakes and come back to those games later-on. Right now, I think Pokemon has something on their mind because of this deviation, and I simply think more remakes are bound to happen. It could go...
( Each '---->' Represents a year's passing)
I. Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire ----> (X and Y Sequel) ----> (Remake or Emerald) ----> New Main Series Title ---> Remake
II. Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire ----> Main-Series Title ----> Remake ----> Main Series Title ----> (Third Versions)
Or something else entirely! Maybe they don't even have a strict guideline anymore in light of the international release dates all over the world. What I pose is that during these remakes and the reasons that Aerodactyl stated for less time consumption which summed up everything I said about the topic of less time used on making the games, they could also work on other Main-Series Titles! Their hands aren't really tied because they spend less time in general as opposed to the Main-Series Games; giving them the opportunity to plan and develop pokemon while doing it and get into the essence of where they first started and their roots.
I don't think we will get multiple remakes in a generation at all. I don't think that would be a smart business move nor a good use of resources, especially because some of those games just aren't old enough yet in my opinion. I do think that one day, six or eight years down the road we will get DLC payable regions to add to ourmain games, so we can go back and explore kanto for gym battles and Pokemon with an extremely reduced plot. That's a whole different scenario though way down the line.
I get what you're saying about the possibility of it though, especially since ORAS is releasing so soon after X/Y. Definitely feels like they had a really strong executed plan for this generation. Anything is possible I guess, and I do like the new world wide release they're doing and the reduced wait time for new games! Guess I'm not very patient.
Although, we don't have many games left to remake, do we? unless we go back to gen 1 and 2 again. I really don't think we'll get a delta emerald, but they might remake b/w and b2/w2 seperatly, since they were more like sequels then a readaptation. Emerald, unfortunately, isn't quire sequely enough I think to be its own game, plus we are getting a heavy Rayquaza story in ORAS. I have wondered, if in Z or X2/Y2, if both Hoenn and Kalos will feature in it, and we will do a sort of johto/kanto thing from GSC, since these games are made so close together and feature a lot of mega evolution.
I don't think they ever had a guideline to begin with.
It seems to me more like they just focus on their projects on a one by one basis.
Meaning that the next game is always simply a combination/consequence of:
-what makes sense (like not a new gen right after a new gen started)
-what is viable (like finishing gen V with BW2 right after BW1 because the DS is too old)
-what they feel like doing next!
Its not like they go to their book of doctrine to check what they need to do next. It's probably a straightforward natural adapting process.
This doesnt pertain to an Emerald remake perse, but I have a sneaking suspicion that ORAS was pushed out this quickly (just like BW/2 and the 3DS already being available) because Nintendo had their 3DS revision in the pipeline since before X/Y came out. This leads me to believe that we might actually get a new main series game in a year or two on the New3DS hardware, which boasts more RAM and a faster GPU (no mo lag anyone?). Obviously, this is all speculation, but it seems feasible to me.
When you look at past examples like the ones I featured in my latest post; yes, it showed a one-by-one basis as with each game..First came constructing it, Second came Releasing it to Japan, Third came releasing it everywhere else which required changing the dialogue, rewriting it, etc. No wonder it's a one-by-one basis because as they finish one game and release it, they have to work on it once more as opposed to X and Y which releases as an essentially finished product for all regions which can be amended in the future by updates. Also, when I look back at every 2 years a new product is released to go with the last I think "Deadlines" rather than a whim, the intention to release that product was there before.
Now, I'm pretty sure that Gamefreak has deadlines as well and the third versions they often 'feel' like doing. So, they could 'feel' like not making a Delta Emerald in favor of another game. The question then becomes "What is that game? Will they ever make Delta Emerald? When is it sensible to make Delta Emerald? When is it viable?" They could stick to their past deadline or instead it could morph into another suitable for them for the long-run. Now, what makes sense, what is viable, and what they feel like doing is subjective, especially because we are not them so we can only make reasons as to why to support our theories. I'm pretty sure that...
A) Mega Evolution was not thought viable by many as were Fairies.
B) Mega Evolution and Fairies were not thought sensible. Still not by a lot.
C) They certainly 'felt' like putting it in there, though!
No one can provide an ultimatium for the speculation in this topic using those three reasons. Same logic can be applied to Delta Emerald, the remakes in general, and where they decide to go and plans they set. They don't have a book of doctrine as you so put, but I feel that they may have decided on a remake for more than one reason and consequently may do more remakes in the forseeable future, why? Littered all throughout my previous posts.
As far as the 'dilemma' featured in the premise, it confines the idea of a third version and what it will be like by comparing it to that of the original third version while GameFreak has taken turns to use nostalgia in their games or break away from it in terms of something new. People who postulate that it may not come also have a point such as with Fire Red and Leaf Green where Blue was absent from that remake or Pokemon Heart Gold and Soul Silver with Crystal not having a remake in itself. So it stands to reason that remakes in the past will beget the pattern for remakes in the future, which may do away with a third version altogether as many people here believe.
But if I may say one little thing to close this post, not all games have to have a sequel so 'Z' and 'Delta Emerald' may not come, it may; the answer is still blurry, but many generations have had remakes, as such it is arguable that it will continue and somewhere along the line Z may come and perhaps even Delta Emerald. Or perhaps ORAS was pushed out quickly because of the plans for the new 3DS and a main series game will follow it exactly listed in the guide I made above.
It does not quite make sense. How can XY and an Emerald Remake happen if the next new games are on the way and they did not make a 3rd game for X/Y? How could this work if there was no 3rd version out now instead of Or/AS. The Emerald thing is most likely out as well. That still could happen because the new games have not been launched at all yet but are still coming. The reason why I said the things about the extra versions was why I thought that was why they made them. They did add more fun but still that is probably why I think they made 3rd versions.
No one is even suggesting Emerald is getting a remake, the opposite, we are now certain it won't happen more than before because Rayquaza gets a role in ORAS already.
They did not make a third game for XY (refered to as Z or XY2 or XZYZ sometimes) YET.
You're wrongly assuming that ORAS being released prevents them from making the XY sequel after ORAS for some reason.
Clearly they got more in store for Kalos as a region (rhyhorn racing, powerplants, pokeball-factory, train station in the east etc..), the story with AZ and his Floette (as hackers have found that Eternal Floette is an actual separate pokemon in the games data), and of course Zygarde who is definitely getting 2 formes of some kind (since there are two clone-moves of Lands Wrath in the games data like was the case with Ice Burn/Freezeshock for Kyurem).
We are getting Z/XY2/XZYZ/whatever-they'll-be-called after ORAS, perhaps even next year already if they intend to keep this recent yearly release pace going.
Fancy said:
I think there may be more remakes in the future, and that because a long period of development for the pokemon games (making new pokemon, their design, etc) is now gone for the most part and replaced with mega-evolutions in this new remake, they wouldn't have trouble doing the same with the other past-generation games and bringing them up to date with the new premise of Mega-Evolution which plays a strong role in where Pokemon seems to be headed currently.
They could introduce remakes of most games while taking out extra versions or the "third" version, in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire's Case, Emerald; and they can then push out new games where you can obtain those past-generation pokemon without the use of Pokebank and Poke-Transfer; at least, this is how I view their plan from afar or outside of it.
Once all of the remakes they intend to do have been done, they could then pull a 'third version' or 'extra version' of the games included with a new storyline and added features for "Z and Delta Emerald" which people have been expecting and speculating for a while now. This would have the added bonus of adventuring through with new pokemon, new mega evolutions, new features, and possibly an expanded-on game from the priors while also receiving feedback from players as they progress through the remakes of what they like about where pokemon is going and where it should head (without changing course); Z and Delta Emerald would then scoop up the people who have been on the fence about getting it, people who want the third version, and people who have played only X or ORAS and want to play the other one.
Reasons for this method?
1. Yeah, making games that contain old pokemon may put a little strain on pokebank at first glance, but really.. It promotes pokebank in that you want to carry those newly available pokemon over to all of these games. And the people who have pokebank but don't have the games prior can then purchase these new games tailored for the 3DS and its variants in mind (The New 3DS) which will also be a tad more expensive and net them more money in the long-run then transferring up the chain of generations while also letting the player have an easier way to get these pokemon.
2. Pokemon has developed over the course of years which anything is liable to do, as such Pokemon, for better or for worse for some of its fans. But! They may see things in a new light, such as how they go back and redesign their old pokemon with these (Mega-Evolutions) and how the pokemon from each generation does take a little deviance in the original until people question the legitimacy of the pokemon included in each region and criticize pokemon for losing its originality, but only pokemon has evolved in a sense with new artists and artists who have grown in their style of art. It's still the same game at heart, but only redesigned, revisioned, etc, and they want players to get a glimpse of that and not turn away, but support them nonetheless.
3. Remaking games will further appeal to the nostalgia of Pokemon's core fan base, those who have been with it for a great amount of time. Going through adventures and seeing these regions in 3D while also having the same species of pokemon and a general similar story will appeal to the nostalgia of fans and may attract customers who otherwise wouldn't buy into Pokemon's new gimmick of "Mega Evolution, Primal Evolution, etc."
4. 3D, in general, gives the artists more freedom and liberty in creating these pokemon, these regions, etc and it's natural that they would want to venture out on this field and look at the past games and think they should be realized on the 3D side of gaming which now fits into a hand-held, which has always been Pokemon's preferred medium for its game. Now they get to realize that, and they may want to show the worlds with more depth.
5. Again, the accessibility of Pokemon to people who are just coming into the Pokemon World of Gaming and look at all these of Gameboy Advance Games and feel it as inferior to the 3DS. I know, I know, if they aren't able to go through the means of obtaining these pokemon by digging into relics of the past, they aren't worthy of the joys of the future.. But that is harsh to children who look at flip-phones and think of them as a pre-historic ancient artifact. They want to be user-friendly, and so having these new remakes will also appeal to their younger audience which is still a part of their target audience or demographic. By making these new games, it'll appeal to the younger-audience and they'll come, while.. The desire for Pokebank will increase because of that! Which brings me back to the continuous remakes and the possibility of third versions being done after that, rather than during for other reasons listed above.
6. While one hand draws, another hand fills in the lines. As they make these remakes, they can still devote their time to developing more pokemon, another region, and a storyline for that while keeping up with the demand for pokemon games in general and pursuing the interests of their fans one step at a time. Step by step, you're able to walk to the ends of the earth; Regardless, the question then becomes.. How long will it take for you to walk those steps or will the Pokemon Fanbase eventually tire out of the remakes and crave original games more? It's another possibility you have to take into account, and if the means justify the ends or vice versa.
Of course, this is all speculation, so take anything I say worth a grain of salt. But, my conclusion would be that Delta may come in the future as well as other 3rd versions, but patience is a virtue.
I. Sure there will probably be more remakes.. but not anytime soon. As explained above, we're very likely getting a return to Kalos next (with even more Mega business but focused on the newer 2 generations etc..).
It is curious though, the remake game is running out and will collapse into absurdity now that FRLG, the first remakes will be the most outdated games yet again.. so we shall see if they shake things up presumably next gen.
However there is nothing implying that the regular "new generation" main games is not going to be continued (if that's really what you're saying). We are still very much on track with the alternation between big+fresh gens and small+evolving gens, only difference between 2,4 and 6 is that it's now mega evolutions rather than regular evolutions.
II. There is all sorts of ways to make old pokemon available...like simply making them available in new games /facepalm. XY alone make like ~90% of all pokemon available without the need for transfers. pokemon availability IS NOT THE DETERMINING reason for what game is next. It was a partial reason for FRLG, but even there it was not the main reason of making those games just a neat consequence. They could have put all the old pokemon in Emerald or anything if FRLG hadn't happened!
III. I am absolutely confused about what you're saying. You're suggesting Emerald and Z to happen when? After ORAS? (Emerald no, Z obviously yes) Some future gen when the current become outdated again, as in making a remake of the third version rather than remaking remakes? While that sounds like a neat solution, it's actually redundant, as the remakes so far all feature the third version features and it seems that even ORAS is trying to (hence this thread.).
1. strain/promotion of pokebank? neither of those are relevant. pokebank is a utility for anyone who wants to use it, and its going to only continue being useful REGARDLESS of what the next game is, as the sole point of it was universal compatibility from now on, so they never have to make special transfer-methods for every game again. It has nothing to do with this topic or gamefreaks "game-plan".
2. pokemon changes, and sometimes does nostalgic sometimes fresh things, yeah. not seeing the relevance here either.
3. if that was the case, they just did ruin it by pushing the new stuff into the remakes thata re supposed to be nostalgia-focused. No. It's always a combination of both nostalgia and new, it's the ratio between them that is shifting back and forth every game/gen.
4. yeah...but what are implying? that we will get several sets of remakes in a row now before anything new? That's an extraordinary prediction, what makes you think that?
5. again, pokemon availability is in no way tied to whether the game is new or a remake. and pokebank will be useful regardless if its a new game or a remake too....
6. gamefreak usually works on more than one project at a time. Kalos sequel development is likely in full speed and they're probably already contemplating ideas for gen 7 while ORAS development is wrapping up.
Of course 3 remakes with megas in a row would be boring and tiresome, you're the one proposing this anomalous plan in the first place.
xxashxx said:
Yeah sounds like right now they are headed in the same direction to how Monster Rancher and Digimon went and those shows did not last very long. Maybe when 7th gen comes out we will have a brand new set of 150 Pokemon or possibly more. Gen 6 I think only got 68 new Pokemon or was it 71? Anyway that is the way it looks to me. They must have some really big plans after these games are released since Pokemon is HUGE in Japan and here Pokemon is pretty much tied with the Mario series ATM. Or at least #2 if not tied with Mario.
same direction as monster franchises using a show as their basis that didnt last long....wiat what? Pokemon IS already lasting long and the core are its games, not the show.
Yeah, gen 6 was small (which was expected!), but also introduced mega evolutions at the same time (which are still growing in numbers mid-gen..). I expect gen 7 to have ~110 new ones, with an initial break from mega evolutions, just to go focus on mega-evolutions or something similar towards the second half of it again.
I kind of get what you are trying to say but why would they go from X/Y directly to OR/AS instead of doing X2Y2 or Z version? Why would they go backwards before going forwards again? Unless they have even bigger plans for X/Y that I have not heard of. That is why I am confused my self because they skipped the 3rd version at least for now anyway if they still are planning on a 3rd version unless they release an X/Y 3rd version and a OR/AS version at the same time which does not make sense to do either. The pieces are mixed in my head XD. Sorry man.
EDIT: I know Pokemon has been around for a very long time but what I mean by not lasting long was they had extra evolutions called something else in tthose series but not actual evolutions like Pokemon. Each series had their own way to evolve only Digimon did not call it Mega Evolution like Pokemon does. Only I don't remember exactly how Digimon evolve their Pokemon except that they had like 4 evolutions per beast. We have up to 3 levels and the Mega evolution is basically the 4th evolution. I have watched Digimon a few times a long time ago way back when it was new. That is why I am getting so confused. Mega Evolutions are still new to me and I am still getting used to them as well.
When you look at past examples like the ones I featured in my latest post; yes, it showed a one-by-one basis as with each game..First came constructing it, Second came Releasing it to Japan, Third came releasing it everywhere else which required changing the dialogue, rewriting it, etc. No wonder it's a one-by-one basis because as they finish one game and release it, they have to work on it once more as opposed to X and Y which releases as an essentially finished product for all regions which can be amended in the future by updates. Also, when I look back at every 2 years a new product is released to go with the last I think "Deadlines" rather than a whim, the intention to release that product was there before.
No, the change in translation deadlines likely doesn't affect the actual developing pace of new games much. It's just we non-japanese don't have to wait
Gamefreak (the developers) never translated the games themselves, there are translation teams in other countries for that with their support.
The only thing the faster translation does is requiring much higher security and gamefreak putting a bit more priority on all text so they can give it to the translators faster.
Fancy said:
Now, I'm pretty sure that Gamefreak has deadlines as well and the third versions they often 'feel' like doing. So, they could 'feel' like not making a Delta Emerald in favor of another game. The question then becomes "What is that game? Will they ever make Delta Emerald? When is it sensible to make Delta Emerald? When is it viable?" They could stick to their past deadline or instead it could morph into another suitable for them for the long-run. Now, what makes sense, what is viable, and what they feel like doing is subjective, especially because we are not them so we can only make reasons as to why to support our theories. I'm pretty sure that...
A) Mega Evolution was not thought viable by many as were Fairies.
B) Mega Evolution and Fairies were not thought sensible. Still not by a lot.
C) They certainly 'felt' like putting it in there, though!
They probably don't feel like doing Delta Emerald AT ALL, for same reasons as not doing a ThunderYellow or somethingCrystal, especially now that we have confirmation that they play around with Rayquazas role in ORAS instead of just putting it there like a big mystery as in RS..
The only way I can see them do more than one set of Hoenn-based games is if they liked the idea of making drastically different (to RSE) sequels after ORAS in the same sense as BW2 were to BW, but that will likely stay a dream of a few fans, at least for any forseeable future.
Of course what they feel like doing is subjective, but it's also not super unpredictable. The only unpredictable thing ever was BW2 (rather than just a Grey), but even that we should have seen coming with BW1s first big emphasis on the whole parallel universe thing (to the point of differing towns to fit their opposite themes of past and future)
What is viable is not subjective though. For example no matter how hard they might have wanted to make RS.remakes in gen 5, it was not viable because the DS didn't have enough lifespan left, FORCING them to move to the next generation ASAP.
"viable" is the part they don't have control over.
Fancy said:
No one can provide an ultimatium for the speculation in this topic using those three reasons. Same logic can be applied to Delta Emerald, the remakes in general, and where they decide to go and plans they set. They don't have a book of doctrine as you so put, but I feel that they may have decided on a remake for more than one reason and consequently may do more remakes in the forseeable future, why? Littered all throughout my previous posts.
As far as the 'dilemma' featured in the premise, it confines the idea of a third version and what it will be like by comparing it to that of the original third version while GameFreak has taken turns to use nostalgia in their games or break away from it in terms of something new. People who postulate that it may not come also have a point such as with Fire Red and Leaf Green where Blue was absent from that remake or Pokemon Heart Gold and Soul Silver with Crystal not having a remake in itself. So it stands to reason that remakes in the past will beget the pattern for remakes in the future, which may do away with a third version altogether as many people here believe.
I think you're misunderstanding the title/topic of this thread.
The "emerald dilemma" does not refer to how they would handle an actual Emerald remake/sequel...it's about how much of Emerald will they be able to put into ORAS in order to make an Emerald redundant like they did with the previous remakes. It is a dilemma because Emerald isn't just extras, but actual changes to the story that make it more complete but which cannot be just integrated into RS plot without some fancy postgame second climax or similar...
The third version as a concept is a separate topic.
How remakes are handled should have no effect on that business whatsoever, as like you state remakes never had third versions anyway, so I don't know why we're discussing if they'll do third version ever in general o__O
And if we do go to that topic, it's not that "third versions" are going extinct, but rather that they're being replaced (or you could say they're "evolving") into sequels due to gamefreak wanting to make them more fresh rather than just with some extra features. Sequels like BW2 play the same role third versions used to, to the point where the terms "third version" and "sequel" are interchangable whenever we discuss Z/XY2/XZYZ, the speculated third-version/sequels to XY.
Fancy said:
But if I may say one little thing to close this post, not all games have to have a sequel so 'Z' and 'Delta Emerald' may not come, it may; the answer is still blurry, but many generations have had remakes, as such it is arguable that it will continue and somewhere along the line Z may come and perhaps even Delta Emerald. Or perhaps ORAS was pushed out quickly because of the plans for the new 3DS and a main series game will follow it exactly listed in the guide I made above.
No XY sequel(=third version) is a proposterous suggestion.
That's like when people disagreed with me when I said that Giratina is the third mascot back in DP times <____<
xxashxx said:
I kind of get what you are trying to say but why would they go from X/Y directly to OR/AS instead of doing X2Y2 or Z version? Why would they go backwards before going forwards again? Unless they have even bigger plans for X/Y that I have not heard of. That is why I am confused my self because they skipped the 3rd version at least for now anyway if they still are planning on a 3rd version unless they release an X/Y 3rd version and a OR/AS version at the same time which does not make sense to do either. The pieces are mixed in my head XD. Sorry man.
First off, I want to point out the order games were released in gen 3:
-Ruby/Sapphire
-FireRed/LeafGreen
-Emerald
So it's even happened before that they had remakes between the "current" games.
But, even ignoring this, there is a reason why they decided to do it this way.
As the franchise is growing and the games become more complex and "third version" get more expanded and remakes thrown in the mix, Gamefreak is more and more working on 2 projects simultaneously.
GEN 1 & 2:
irrelevant to the subject as both Yellow and Crystal didn't require much effort and were easily developed after the main games were finished, by the same staff, all under Satoshi Tajiris direction.
GEN 3:
This is where Junichi Masuda took over as the main director ever since.
Here it was still straightforward one project after another.
-RS (Masuda)
-FRLG (taking 1.5 years) (Masuda)
-E (taking 0.5 years) (Shigeki Morimoto)
As you can see they didn't put Emerald out first because they focused everything on the remakes after RS (so as to regain as many as possible of the old fans) which was a much bigger project (and a first case of developing "remakes", so it required full attention). And then Emerald was done as a finisher (with hopes of FRLG-players who doubted in RS now beign interested) while also milking 3rd gen some more.
Also notice that Morimoto was picked for that job, and it's obvious why. DP development was in full progress already at the same time as the less complicated Emerald was being made.
GEN 4:
-DP (Masuda)
-Pt (Masuda)
-HGSS (Morimoto)
Here it was the reverse. Masuda continued to helm Platinum right away rather than giving it to someone else (in order to start developing BW as soon as the Sinnoh-arc was out of the way), while the other team was already developing HGSS (which was just as simple straight remake as FRLG if not even less, as FRLG at leats had a whole new postgame quest on the Sevii islands)
GEN 5 (still on DS rather than waiting for 3ds):
-BW (Masuda)
-BW2 (Takao Uno)
the 3DS being out meant they had to focus on moving to next generation ASAP, hence no time for remakes or the like. Of course the second team took BW2 as Masuda started developing XY
GEN 6:
-XY (Masuda)
-ORAS (Shigeru Omori)
The second team was already working on ORAS (notice how the director is Shigeru Omori instead of Junichi Masuda) while XY was coming together.
Now take a good guess what Masuda is doing.
Obviously as they don't wanna just put out a simple Z with small extras anymore (especially after stepping up their game by a huge step with BW2 in terms of "third versions"), the sequel to XY requires more than a single year to make.
And all of this summed up is why it is so obviously clear to me that the return to Kalos is up next.
No, the change in translation deadlines likely doesn't affect the actual developing pace of new games much. It's just we non-japanese don't have to wait
Gamefreak (the developers) never translated the games themselves, there are translation teams in other countries for that with their support.
The only thing the faster translation does is requiring much higher security and gamefreak putting a bit more priority on all text so they can give it to the translators faster.
I didn't know that, I figured there were teams that Gamefreak had and they all worked to translate the dialogue without losing too much of the meaning. Thanks for the info.
Mitja said:
They probably don't feel like doing Delta Emerald AT ALL, for same reasons as not doing a ThunderYellow or somethingCrystal, especially now that we have confirmation that they play around with Rayquazas role in ORAS instead of just putting it there like a big mystery as in RS..
The only way I can see them do more than one set of Hoenn-based games is if they liked the idea of making drastically different (to RSE) sequels after ORAS in the same sense as BW2 were to BW, but that will likely stay a dream of a few fans, at least for any forseeable future.
--
What is viable is not subjective though. For example no matter how hard they might have wanted to make RS.remakes in gen 5, it was not viable because the DS didn't have enough lifespan left, FORCING them to move to the next generation ASAP.
"viable" is the part they don't have control over.
I agree that they 'probably don't feel like doing Delta Emerald AT ALL' but only at the present moment because they haven't even observed how Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire will go over with their fans. For now, it may not come in the forseeable future like you say, but my point was that it is however not out of the question and may come into the future. As to when, that can only be speculated, but I guess I've always been a dreamer at heart. But now, when you move on to 'viability'...
Let's look at the definition of viable:
Which is basically 'capable of happening' and its Synonyms are: Practical, Attainable, Do-able.
You remark that no matter how hard they might have wanted to make remakes in Generation 5, it was not viable; although, it was do-able but at the same time the consequences for such was unrealistic so we'll say unpractical. But, it was still do-able and fully capable of being realized but just wasn't sensible.. So that brings us to another one of your points: "What makes sense", meaning that your definition of viable in your reasons for why they make their specific games is actually a subset of 'What makes sense' which is also subjective. If we branch out that reasoning, it applies to more than just when games are released but also the decisions they make, making viable inherently subjective in terms of how GameFreak executes their idea, the methods they use, and the ideas in themselves. Therefore, possibilities for their games are 'ad infinitium' and not limited in nature such as the very infinite variants of thoughts that a human-mind can think, albeit only a select few manifest into something tangible, such as intentions and wishes that GameFreak may have for their games but can't do so because of a limitation of hardware which would be.. Unattainable, or in other words: Not Viable.
Mitja said:
I think you're misunderstanding the title/topic of this thread.
The "emerald dilemma" does not refer to how they would handle an actual Emerald remake/sequel...it's about how much of Emerald will they be able to put into ORAS in order to make an Emerald redundant like they did with the previous remakes. It is a dilemma because Emerald isn't just extras, but actual changes to the story that make it more complete but which cannot be just integrated into RS plot without some fancy postgame second climax or similar...
The third version as a concept is a separate topic.
How remakes are handled should have no effect on that business whatsoever, as like you state remakes never had third versions anyway, so I don't know why we're discussing if they'll do third version ever in general o__O
And if we do go to that topic, it's not that "third versions" are going extinct, but rather that they're being replaced (or you could say they're "evolving") into sequels due to gamefreak wanting to make them more fresh rather than just with some extra features. Sequels like BW2 play the same role third versions used to, to the point where the terms "third version" and "sequel" are interchangable whenever we discuss Z/XY2/XZYZ, the speculated third-version/sequels to XY.
Guess I may have then, but I wished to remark on the premise of the topic where you clearly said 'Delta Emerald is clearly out of the window now' meaning that it was in the window in the first place. Emerald did have a different plot and them fusing it together with Ruby and Sapphire is jarring, but at the same time, a possible third version isn't limited in the traditional sense of how pokemon makes third games and still has vast potential and possibilities which undermines the creative potential Pokemon has and their ability to bring something new to the playing field as well. So the speculation was spear-headed by "We're not getting Emerald, how will they make up for it in Ruby and Sapphire!", when I think that Delta Emerald is a possibility ever-still. Sorry for the inconvenience though, as to how Rayquaza's role will be implemented in the current game...
Kyogre and Groudon will battle each other and cause a chaos all around Hoenn and Rayquaza will show up
Rayquaza will calm the fighting and the player will capture the Pokemon of his Specific Version of the Game
Rayquaza will be able to be collected postgame as the trainer prevented the climatic battle between the two and Saved Hoenn, resembling Rayquaza's Neutrality and Mediator role
Rayquaza mega-evolving? They could simply give you the Mega-Stone after you beat him like Mewtwo in X and Y. Some new added features and sidequests to put a little bit of the old Emerald in (That is if they ever make a new Emerald), stuff like the Battle Frontier, etc.
When you look at past examples like the ones I featured in my latest post; yes, it showed a one-by-one basis as with each game..First came constructing it, Second came Releasing it to Japan, Third came releasing it everywhere else which required changing the dialogue, rewriting it, etc. No wonder it's a one-by-one basis because as they finish one game and release it, they have to work on it once more as opposed to X and Y which releases as an essentially finished product for all regions which can be amended in the future by updates. Also, when I look back at every 2 years a new product is released to go with the last I think "Deadlines" rather than a whim, the intention to release that product was there before.
No, the change in translation deadlines likely doesn't affect the actual developing pace of new games much. It's just we non-japanese don't have to wait
Gamefreak (the developers) never translated the games themselves, there are translation teams in other countries for that with their support.
The only thing the faster translation does is requiring much higher security and gamefreak putting a bit more priority on all text so they can give it to the translators faster.
Fancy said:
Now, I'm pretty sure that Gamefreak has deadlines as well and the third versions they often 'feel' like doing. So, they could 'feel' like not making a Delta Emerald in favor of another game. The question then becomes "What is that game? Will they ever make Delta Emerald? When is it sensible to make Delta Emerald? When is it viable?" They could stick to their past deadline or instead it could morph into another suitable for them for the long-run. Now, what makes sense, what is viable, and what they feel like doing is subjective, especially because we are not them so we can only make reasons as to why to support our theories. I'm pretty sure that...
A) Mega Evolution was not thought viable by many as were Fairies.
B) Mega Evolution and Fairies were not thought sensible. Still not by a lot.
C) They certainly 'felt' like putting it in there, though!
They probably don't feel like doing Delta Emerald AT ALL, for same reasons as not doing a ThunderYellow or somethingCrystal, especially now that we have confirmation that they play around with Rayquazas role in ORAS instead of just putting it there like a big mystery as in RS..
The only way I can see them do more than one set of Hoenn-based games is if they liked the idea of making drastically different (to RSE) sequels after ORAS in the same sense as BW2 were to BW, but that will likely stay a dream of a few fans, at least for any forseeable future.
Of course what they feel like doing is subjective, but it's also not super unpredictable. The only unpredictable thing ever was BW2 (rather than just a Grey), but even that we should have seen coming with BW1s first big emphasis on the whole parallel universe thing (to the point of differing towns to fit their opposite themes of past and future)
What is viable is not subjective though. For example no matter how hard they might have wanted to make RS.remakes in gen 5, it was not viable because the DS didn't have enough lifespan left, FORCING them to move to the next generation ASAP.
"viable" is the part they don't have control over.
Fancy said:
No one can provide an ultimatium for the speculation in this topic using those three reasons. Same logic can be applied to Delta Emerald, the remakes in general, and where they decide to go and plans they set. They don't have a book of doctrine as you so put, but I feel that they may have decided on a remake for more than one reason and consequently may do more remakes in the forseeable future, why? Littered all throughout my previous posts.
As far as the 'dilemma' featured in the premise, it confines the idea of a third version and what it will be like by comparing it to that of the original third version while GameFreak has taken turns to use nostalgia in their games or break away from it in terms of something new. People who postulate that it may not come also have a point such as with Fire Red and Leaf Green where Blue was absent from that remake or Pokemon Heart Gold and Soul Silver with Crystal not having a remake in itself. So it stands to reason that remakes in the past will beget the pattern for remakes in the future, which may do away with a third version altogether as many people here believe.
I think you're misunderstanding the title/topic of this thread.
The "emerald dilemma" does not refer to how they would handle an actual Emerald remake/sequel...it's about how much of Emerald will they be able to put into ORAS in order to make an Emerald redundant like they did with the previous remakes. It is a dilemma because Emerald isn't just extras, but actual changes to the story that make it more complete but which cannot be just integrated into RS plot without some fancy postgame second climax or similar...
The third version as a concept is a separate topic.
How remakes are handled should have no effect on that business whatsoever, as like you state remakes never had third versions anyway, so I don't know why we're discussing if they'll do third version ever in general o__O
And if we do go to that topic, it's not that "third versions" are going extinct, but rather that they're being replaced (or you could say they're "evolving") into sequels due to gamefreak wanting to make them more fresh rather than just with some extra features. Sequels like BW2 play the same role third versions used to, to the point where the terms "third version" and "sequel" are interchangable whenever we discuss Z/XY2/XZYZ, the speculated third-version/sequels to XY.
Fancy said:
But if I may say one little thing to close this post, not all games have to have a sequel so 'Z' and 'Delta Emerald' may not come, it may; the answer is still blurry, but many generations have had remakes, as such it is arguable that it will continue and somewhere along the line Z may come and perhaps even Delta Emerald. Or perhaps ORAS was pushed out quickly because of the plans for the new 3DS and a main series game will follow it exactly listed in the guide I made above.
No XY sequel(=third version) is a proposterous suggestion.
That's like when people disagreed with me when I said that Giratina is the third mascot back in DP times <____<
xxashxx said:
I kind of get what you are trying to say but why would they go from X/Y directly to OR/AS instead of doing X2Y2 or Z version? Why would they go backwards before going forwards again? Unless they have even bigger plans for X/Y that I have not heard of. That is why I am confused my self because they skipped the 3rd version at least for now anyway if they still are planning on a 3rd version unless they release an X/Y 3rd version and a OR/AS version at the same time which does not make sense to do either. The pieces are mixed in my head XD. Sorry man.
First off, I want to point out the order games were released in gen 3:
-Ruby/Sapphire
-FireRed/LeafGreen
-Emerald
So it's even happened before that they had remakes between the "current" games.
But, even ignoring this, there is a reason why they decided to do it this way.
As the franchise is growing and the games become more complex and "third version" get more expanded and remakes thrown in the mix, Gamefreak is more and more working on 2 projects simultaneously.
GEN 1 & 2:
irrelevant to the subject as both Yellow and Crystal didn't require much effort and were easily developed after the main games were finished, by the same staff, all under Satoshi Tajiris direction.
GEN 3:
This is where Junichi Masuda took over as the main director ever since.
Here it was still straightforward one project after another.
-RS (Masuda)
-FRLG (taking 1.5 years) (Masuda)
-E (taking 0.5 years) (Shigeki Morimoto
As you can see they didn't put Emerald out first because they focused everything on the remakes after RS (so as to regain as many as possible of the old fans) which was a much bigger project (and a first case of developing "remakes", so it required full attention). And then Emerald was done as a finisher (with hopes of FRLG-players who doubted in RS now beign interested) while also milking 3rd gen some more.
Also notice that Morimoto was picked for that job, and it's obvious why. DP development was in full progress already at the same time as the less complicated Emerald was being made.
GEN 4:
-DP (Masuda)
-Pt (Masuda))
-HGSS (Morimoto)
Here it was the reverse. Masuda continued to helm Platinum right away rather than giving it to someone else (in order to start developing BW as soon as the Sinnoh-arc was out of the way), while the other team was already developing HGSS (which was just as simple straight remake as FRLG if not even less, as FRLG at leats had a whole new postgame quest on the Sevii islands)
GEN 5 (still on DS rather than waiting for 3ds):
-BW (Masuda)
-BW2 (Takao Uno)
the 3DS being out meant they had to focus on moving to next generation ASAP, hence no time for remakes or the like. Of course the second team took BW2 as Masuda started developing XY
GEN 6:
-XY (Masuda)
-ORAS (Shigeru Omori)
The second team was already working on ORAS (notice how the director is Shigeru Omori instead of Junichi Masuda) while XY was coming together.
Now take a good guess what Masuda is doing.
Obviously as they don't wanna just put out a simple Z with small extras anymore (especially after stepping up their game by a huge step with BW2 in terms of "third versions"), the sequel to XY requires more than a single year to make.
And all of this summed up is why it is so obviously clear to me that the return to Kalos is up next.
Ah so that is why they are releasing OR/AS first right? Then next year we should see an X/Y 3rd game(s) right? If this is correct what will we see after next year? possibly gen 7 or will we see another gen 3 game?
No, the change in translation deadlines likely doesn't affect the actual developing pace of new games much. It's just we non-japanese don't have to wait
Gamefreak (the developers) never translated the games themselves, there are translation teams in other countries for that with their support.
The only thing the faster translation does is requiring much higher security and gamefreak putting a bit more priority on all text so they can give it to the translators faster.
They probably don't feel like doing Delta Emerald AT ALL, for same reasons as not doing a ThunderYellow or somethingCrystal, especially now that we have confirmation that they play around with Rayquazas role in ORAS instead of just putting it there like a big mystery as in RS..
The only way I can see them do more than one set of Hoenn-based games is if they liked the idea of making drastically different (to RSE) sequels after ORAS in the same sense as BW2 were to BW, but that will likely stay a dream of a few fans, at least for any forseeable future.
Of course what they feel like doing is subjective, but it's also not super unpredictable. The only unpredictable thing ever was BW2 (rather than just a Grey), but even that we should have seen coming with BW1s first big emphasis on the whole parallel universe thing (to the point of differing towns to fit their opposite themes of past and future)
What is viable is not subjective though. For example no matter how hard they might have wanted to make RS.remakes in gen 5, it was not viable because the DS didn't have enough lifespan left, FORCING them to move to the next generation ASAP.
"viable" is the part they don't have control over.
I think you're misunderstanding the title/topic of this thread.
The "emerald dilemma" does not refer to how they would handle an actual Emerald remake/sequel...it's about how much of Emerald will they be able to put into ORAS in order to make an Emerald redundant like they did with the previous remakes. It is a dilemma because Emerald isn't just extras, but actual changes to the story that make it more complete but which cannot be just integrated into RS plot without some fancy postgame second climax or similar...
The third version as a concept is a separate topic.
How remakes are handled should have no effect on that business whatsoever, as like you state remakes never had third versions anyway, so I don't know why we're discussing if they'll do third version ever in general o__O
And if we do go to that topic, it's not that "third versions" are going extinct, but rather that they're being replaced (or you could say they're "evolving") into sequels due to gamefreak wanting to make them more fresh rather than just with some extra features. Sequels like BW2 play the same role third versions used to, to the point where the terms "third version" and "sequel" are interchangable whenever we discuss Z/XY2/XZYZ, the speculated third-version/sequels to XY.
No XY sequel(=third version) is a proposterous suggestion.
That's like when people disagreed with me when I said that Giratina is the third mascot back in DP times <____<
Okay I see now what the confusing part is.
First off, I want to point out the order games were released in gen 3:
-Ruby/Sapphire
-FireRed/LeafGreen
-Emerald
So it's even happened before that they had remakes between the "current" games.
But, even ignoring this, there is a reason why they decided to do it this way.
As the franchise is growing and the games become more complex and "third version" get more expanded and remakes thrown in the mix, Gamefreak is more and more working on 2 projects simultaneously.
GEN 1 & 2:
irrelevant to the subject as both Yellow and Crystal didn't require much effort and were easily developed after the main games were finished, by the same staff, all under Satoshi Tajiris direction.
GEN 3:
This is where Junichi Masuda took over as the main director ever since.
Here it was still straightforward one project after another.
-RS (Masuda)
-FRLG (taking 1.5 years) (Masuda)
-E (taking 0.5 years) (Shigeki Morimoto
As you can see they didn't put Emerald out first because they focused everything on the remakes after RS (so as to regain as many as possible of the old fans) which was a much bigger project (and a first case of developing "remakes", so it required full attention). And then Emerald was done as a finisher (with hopes of FRLG-players who doubted in RS now beign interested) while also milking 3rd gen some more.
Also notice that Morimoto was picked for that job, and it's obvious why. DP development was in full progress already at the same time as the less complicated Emerald was being made.
GEN 4:
-DP (Masuda)
-Pt (Masuda))
-HGSS (Morimoto)
Here it was the reverse. Masuda continued to helm Platinum right away rather than giving it to someone else (in order to start developing BW as soon as the Sinnoh-arc was out of the way), while the other team was already developing HGSS (which was just as simple straight remake as FRLG if not even less, as FRLG at leats had a whole new postgame quest on the Sevii islands)
GEN 5 (still on DS rather than waiting for 3ds):
-BW (Masuda)
-BW2 (Takao Uno)
the 3DS being out meant they had to focus on moving to next generation ASAP, hence no time for remakes or the like. Of course the second team took BW2 as Masuda started developing XY
GEN 6:
-XY (Masuda)
-ORAS (Shigeru Omori)
The second team was already working on ORAS (notice how the director is Shigeru Omori instead of Junichi Masuda) while XY was coming together.
Now take a good guess what Masuda is doing.
Obviously as they don't wanna just put out a simple Z with small extras anymore (especially after stepping up their game by a huge step with BW2 in terms of "third versions"), the sequel to XY requires more than a single year to make.
And all of this summed up is why it is so obviously clear to me that the return to Kalos is up next.
Ah so that is why they are releasing OR/AS first right? Then next year we should see an X/Y 3rd game(s) right? If this is correct what will we see after next year? possibly gen 7 or will we see another gen 3 game?
I'd say 7th gen is highly likely after the next Kalos game. With New 3DS on the horizon, they're probably going to want 3DS games that take advantage of its features (although it probably won't be N3DS exclusive, it'll probably just be enhanced).
Ah so that is why they are releasing OR/AS first right? Then next year we should see an X/Y 3rd game(s) right? If this is correct what will we see after next year? possibly gen 7 or will we see another gen 3 game?
I'd say 7th gen is highly likely after the next Kalos game. With New 3DS on the horizon, they're probably going to want 3DS games that take advantage of its features (although it probably won't be N3DS exclusive, it'll probably just be enhanced).
X/Y
OR/AS
XZ/YZ
..
It depends on when nintendo figures to pump out an actually new handheld (as in next gen, not jsut new features).
But since they've just announced an improved revision of the 3DS, I figure its gonna stay around for a while.
If that's true, they'll likely want to take advantage of having the game-engine/graphics/mechanics for the 3ds already figured out and try to get a second generation into the 3ds-lifetime, akin to gen 5.
If they see there is no rush (unlike gen 5 where the new handheld was already out while they were still developing BW2..), I can see them throwing a Kanto game into the mix along the way, although it would really have to be more than a remake...
there is also always the possibility that they could change the whole notion of how generations play out at any point though.
We are used to generations releasing all pokemon at the beginning of a generation. Then maybe some formes mid-gen.. or a dozen new mega evolutions now that that is a thing.
They could for example instead of this, chop up a new generation into smaller chunks (say 70+50+30) and have 3 sets of games with a 3 part storyline, each ending with a bigger legendary plot etc etc. The possibilities are endless if they wanted to shake things up.
X/Y
OR/AS
XZ/YZ
..
It depends on when nintendo figures to pump out an actually new handheld (as in next gen, not jsut new features).
But since they've just announced an improved revision of the 3DS, I figure its gonna stay around for a while.
If that's true, they'll likely want to take advantage of having the game-engine/graphics/mechanics for the 3ds already figured out and try to get a second generation into the 3ds-lifetime, akin to gen 5.
If they see there is no rush (unlike gen 5 where the new handheld was already out while they were still developing BW2..), I can see them throwing a Kanto game into the mix along the way, although it would really have to be more than a remake...
there is also always the possibility that they could change the whole notion of how generations play out at any point though.
We are used to generations releasing all pokemon at the beginning of a generation. Then maybe some formes mid-gen.. or a dozen new mega evolutions now that that is a thing.
They could for example instead of this, chop up a new generation into smaller chunks (say 70+50+30) and have 3 sets of games with a 3 part storyline, each ending with a bigger legendary plot etc etc. The possibilities are endless if they wanted to shake things up.
If they are going to release the Super 3DS next year (That is basically what it is) then they will go straight to gen 7. This usually happens when a new system comes out. Unless they count the extra games as remakes as well. That is just how I figure it anyway. I don't know about you guys but it does not make sense?
If they are going to release the Super 3DS next year (That is basically what it is) then they will go straight to gen 7. This usually happens when a new system comes out. Unless they count the extra games as remakes as well. That is just how I figure it anyway. I don't know about you guys but it does not make sense?
Well I'm not so sure that 7th gen is going to be N3DS exclusive in the first place, it'd make more business sense for it to be N3DS enhanced. So there's no real hurry for anything.
Yeah I know but I am not sure what they are doing after OR/AS. Are they going backwards to do X2 Y2 or possibly Z or are they going straight to gen 7? That is what I am trying to figure out ATM XD.
Yeah I know but I am not sure what they are doing after OR/AS. Are they going backwards to do X2 Y2 or possibly Z or are they going straight to gen 7? That is what I am trying to figure out ATM XD.
Ok how does that actually show that X2/Y2 or Z is next? How does that prove that those games are going to be next? They might use those moves in OR/AS XD.
