New pokemon Format?

[Dragonzong]

Hello Pokebeach My name is Dragonzong. i haven't been on the beach due to a lack of interest and the dislike to the new rotation and went to magic the gathering. i noticed that magic has multiple formats that can use older cards. unlike pokemon that has only 1 standard format in which you can ONLY play your deck for 1 year then have to dump money into getting a new deck.
Just yesterday i thought of a "Legacy style" pokemon format. before i go into details your probably asking what is a legacy format? well Legacy is a magic type of format, in which you can use any card from the base set to the latest set. keyword their being any.

I've noticed at least in my area that younger kids can't keep up with the new rotation even though i don't have an interest i do know that the people with money are dominating by buying 8 or 9 boxes and making decks fom them. this discorages younger kids or people taking a break from the game and want to restart because they can't compete with the people who have the most expensive decks.

I was thinking of a new format that would allow people to play cards that have been out of legal play for years or just recently the cut to make the format HGSS on. If you think this is a good idea please vote on the pole or if you have questions please consult me by PM or comment on the thread. i plan to e-mail Pokemon USA or International derectly. if it matters at all i spoke to Dmaster and he has my support of this proposal to pokemon. this new format WILL have a Banned or restricted list and of coruse i woun't be called "Legacy" it will be called something else.

Thanks and i hope this gets support.

Dragonzong

 

[.::n00bmuffin::.]

Unlimited in Pokemon isn't the best format...there are so many cheap combos you can pull off; the ban list would have to be quite expansive. I don't think it's really worth it

 

[Zorua]

We already have a format like this, which does not see competitive play, but none the less is a type of format, called Unlimited.

In the Unlimited format, you can use any card from any set (Correct me if I'm wrong, as if whether banned cards like Slowking from Neo is banned in this format).

Pokemon does not hold any Unlimited Format events, but a lot of local stores/leagues promote this kind of format.

 

[Dragonzong]

Unlimited in Pokemon isn't the best format...there are so many cheap combos you can pull off; the ban list would have to be quite expansive. I don't think it's really worth it

I know this wouldn't be a main event then again it could be. in addition to the banned list there would be a restricted list to along side it. a restricted list can limited a player to how many of 1 card he or she can use in 1 deck. for example slowking with mind game. (something like that)

Dragonzong

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We already have a format like this, which does not see competitive play, but none the less is a type of format, called Unlimited.

In the Unlimited format, you can use any card from any set (Correct me if I'm wrong, as if whether banned cards like Slowking from Neo is banned in this format).

Pokemon does not hold any Unlimited Format events, but a lot of local stores/leagues promote this kind of format.

Right im trying to make a legacy type style of game play recognized to the public and to have events held or it be part of a much larger event like regionals or nationals something like that.

Dragonzong

 

[.::n00bmuffin::.]

The other problem is out of print cards...a lot of the good cards have been out-of-print for years and would probably be quite expensive.

 

[Zorua]

I know this wouldn't be a main event then again it could be. in addition to the banned list there would be a restricted list to along side it. a restricted list can limited a player to how many of 1 card he or she can use in 1 deck. for example slowking with mind game. (something like that)

Dragonzong

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Right im trying to make a legacy type style of game play recognized to the public and to have events held or it be part of a much larger event like regionals or nationals something like that.

Dragonzong

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That wouldn't happen. Pokemon wouldn't hold those kind of events since the majority of players play the Legal Format.

 

[Dragonzong]

That wouldn't happen. Pokemon wouldn't hold those kind of events since the majority of players play the Legal Format.

Okay well i don't think any of you have been to a magic event or don't know how magic works. they have 4 or 5 different formats that allow players to build different decks for different events. if this could be a side event this could explode and it offers a unique and enjoyable form of game play. besides this format is a tornament format and isn't publicly known or advertised.

 

[Project696]

I once played someone who wanted to play an unlimited match. He ran Fossil Aerodactyl and SF Machamp. Get a machamp out, then get aerodactyl, thus locking you from evolving your own pokemon and take out wins the game with ease.

 

[scizorlicious]

^And that's not even the worst of it. Can you say Dark Vileplume+Aggron ex+Aerodactyl? Yeah, you can't evolve, can't play T/S/S, and your Basics can't attack. Good luck doing anything.

Or PoryDonk? Porygon2 spamming Seeker, then Drifblim taking away your active for a first turn win.

And what exactly makes all this possible? Trainers from early sets that act basically as Supporters– You can easily draw your entire deck T1.

And people make these decks without even having a reason other than fun tournaments/league. If you made actual tournaments with an Unlimited Format for prizes, etc., it would just be go-first-or-lose.

 

[Dork Void]

Another thing you seem to be forgetting is that Pokemon is a franchise that wants to make money, and to do that they force people to buy new cards constantly to stay in the game. Also, they need to rotate OP cards so they don't control the meta otherwise you'd just see tournaments with sabledonk vs. sabledonk and there would never be a reason for competitive people to buy new cards, and due to the entire game depending on an openning coin flip, fewer people would play competitively. Unlimited play will never be the format for a big official tournament.

 

[don()shinobi]

Another thing you seem to be forgetting is that Pokemon is a franchise that wants to make money, and to do that they force people to buy new cards constantly to stay in the game. Also, they need to rotate OP cards so they don't control the meta otherwise you'd just see tournaments with sabledonk vs. sabledonk and there would never be a reason for competitive people to buy new cards, and due to the entire game depending on an openning coin flip, fewer people would play competitively. Unlimited play will never be the format for a big official tournament.

All they need to do is remove the rotation and put limits on certain cards just like in Yu-Gi-Oh. If a card is too game-changing, then it can get limited to one or just flat-out forbidden. If it's very good, then it could get semi-limited to two. If it's not absolutely amazing but still a very good threat, then it could get demi-limited (new term I just made up there, anybody who plays Yu-Gi-Oh will understand why I needed to do so) to three. That way, the metagame would be more filled with original deck ideas, things too powerful would have a limitation, and people with outdated cards would still have a chance. Good cards would keep coming out to spark interest in new deck types and such. Then again, it'd be far too complicated for the little kiddies, so this obviously wouldn't happen.

 

[scizorlicious]

And besides the fact that it's too complicated, there are simply too many combinations. Even with limiting cards, once you have that many thousands of cards in the format, there are bound to be ridiculous combinations. You can't ban everything that does well, it would get way too confusing for anyone to remember.

 

[nabby101]

There are a few problems with your arguement, sir.

For instance, the MTG format Legacy does not allow you to play ANY card, as there is a good sized ban list.

Secondly, do you know how much Legacy decks cost? Hundreds, at the least, if you want a decent deck. Pokemon would be similar, as old cards have lower print runs and cards would be high in demand and therefore ridiculously expensive.

Thirdly, most people who play MTG are upwards of 16 years old, and generally have a job or some other way of generating a decent sized income. Most people who play Pokemon, on the other hand (and I don't mean to offend nor demean anyone here) are between 8 and 14 years old. Most people between 8 and 14 (emphasis on the most) don't have a steady stream of income, save maybe a relatively small allowance. Therefore, it would be difficult to make a deck upwards of $100-200, and a Legacy format would definitely surpass those numbers.

And finally, Magic the Gathering is simply a better designed game than Pokemon. That's not to say they haven't made mistakes over the years (Black Lotus, for those of you who play the game, is the most famous example). But, as you say, a MTG Legacy format thrives, whereas anytime you see a game of Unlimited in Pokemon, it is full of cheap combos that win quickly or lock the opponent out of the game completely, and is in general not a very fun experience for the losing player.

 

[Muddy68]

I have a question: Which set of rules do you use? Like do you take prizes for fossils and would you play T/S/S on the 1st turn?

 

[don()shinobi]

And besides the fact that it's too complicated, there are simply too many combinations.

...that's a bad thing? You're going from 5 decks in the meta to dozens.

Even with limiting cards, once you have that many thousands of cards in the format, there are bound to be ridiculous combinations.

Just like Yu-Gi-Oh. But I don't see anybody complaining about that.

You can't ban everything that does well, it would get way too confusing for anyone to remember.

Did I say ban everything? No, I said ban things that change the game way too much, like Professor Oak, for example. And if you can't remember, just carry a list with you that shows the limitations. It's not that difficult for the players, though it'd be immensely difficult for the heads of organized play to suddenly change the rulings after 10+ years.

 

[scizorlicious]

And besides the fact that it's too complicated, there are simply too many combinations.

...that's a bad thing? You're going from 5 decks in the meta to dozens.

Yeah, now try teching against any deck. That's right, you can't. Because you're extremely unlikely to face any given deck. At least with this format, we know there's a good chance we could play against MegaZone, and if that's an autoloss or a bad matchup, we could at least tech something to help us with that matchup. But in unlimited, with– as you say– dozens of meta decks, teching does more bad for your consistency than it would help, seeing as you probably wouldn't play the deck or card you're teching against anyways.
What I'm getting at is that it's too random. Every deck, even in unlimited, has bad matchups. But you never have any idea what you'll play. You could see some deck that you've never even heard of before, and it could very well be extremely good. We even see that in this format (look at all the rogue decks that went far at Nats!). And at that point, you can't even playtest– every match is completely different.

You can't ban everything that does well, it would get way too confusing for anyone to remember.

Did I say ban everything? No, I said ban things that change the game way too much, like Professor Oak, for example. And if you can't remember, just carry a list with you that shows the limitations. It's not that difficult for the players, though it'd be immensely difficult for the heads of organized play to suddenly change the rulings after 10+ years.

I never said ban everything either. I said ban everything that does well. And I'm saying "does well" as in "if it goes first, it wins." And keep in mind, that's true for a lot of decks in unlimited. There'd be too many T/S/S to ban– nearly all the Trainers in Base Set until the T/S split would be banned. They're all just too good for someone to be able to use them more than once per turn. And then there are just some cards that become OP– BTS, for instance. But ban BTS, and everything's still the same, just a turn slower. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but it would end up being immensely complicated to try and make a meta where it's not go-first-or-lose.

 

[Rakuron]

And may I just point out that in Yu-Gi-Oh most to all of the good decks are based on new cards. It's just the staple Spell/Trap cards that make it unlimited, otherwise it's basically a modified format. Letting us do the same (while banning OP combos) would just result in the game being WAY faster, way more unnecessarily complex, and more unnecessarily expensive. It'd be pointless.