Next Season's Standard Supporter List

NintendoAlian

Frontier Brain
Member
After the next rotation it is probable that N and Colress will rotate, so this is what I think the standard Supporter list will be:

4x Professor Sycamore
4x Shauna
2x Professor Birch's Observations
2x Lysandre
1x Lysandre's Trump Card
 
I can see it being around that. Hopefully there are some good draw supporters in the sets to come (After Primal Clash)
 
I'm kind of hoping that the new space will allow use for some more of the non-draw supporters, e.g. Korrina, Twins, new things along the line of Archie and Maxie (but more playable).
 
Snyder005 said:
I'm kind of hoping that the new space will allow use for some more of the non-draw supporters, e.g. Korrina, Twins, new things along the line of Archie and Maxie (but more playable).

I doubt people are going to use the extra space for that... People should still play the same amount of draw supporters unless something drastically changes. Decks just wouldn't be consistent.
 
Assuming the next rotation is XY-on, here's a list of all the Supporters that will be legal (including Primal Clash) and my perceived playability.

Professor Sycamore - Same as Juniper. Of course it's good and will continued to be played as it always has been.

Shauna - Either "The new N" or "not quite PONT." Compared to what we've seen over the BW era, shuffle in for five cards really isn't much. However with Archie and Maxie both also giving five, this could be a new standard. Pokemon may be trying to tone down draw support somewhat, or go back to "setup" Pokemon like we saw during the D/P/Pt era.

Team Flare Grunt - Not a draw Supporter, and its usefulness is still limited as it only discards off the active. Xerosic and Hammers are better options.

Cassius - Non-draw support, limited usefulness. Can help save a Pokemon in the right sort of deck, but AZ seems to be the better choice.

Tierno - Even with Colress and N gone, I still can't see this being used much. Even Shauna has a better card advantage than a vanilla draw three. Most of the time you don't mind shuffling or discarding your hand anyway since you generally have played all you can before using a Supporter.

Lysandre - Same as it ever was.

Pokemon Center Lady - Could see more use if Max Potion isn't reprinted. An okay one-of with VS Seeker. While it offers no draw power, the FA card is cute, and she \can save a Pokemon from a critical KO.

Pokemon Fan Club - Useful in setup-heavy decks, might see more use if Setup Pokemon become a thing again. Korrina is a better option for Fighting decks, and with Ultra Ball still in format its niche is rather small.

Blacksmith - Non-draw of course. Fire decks will continue to love it, especially with Battle Compressor. Nothing more to say.

Korrina - Great in Fighting decks, may see use elsewhere for searching Items. The latter philosophy is iffy, but she will be the closest thing in the format to Skyla.

Fossil Researcher - The most reliable way to get Restored Pokemon out, but I've still yet to see a competitive deck that utilizes them.

Battle Reporter - Even with the BW Supporters gone there's plenty of things I'd rather run before this. There will be too many times where you won't even be able to play it.

AZ - Better than Cassius but not without drawbacks. Can be decent for saving a Pokemon in danger, and better if you have a way to conserve / cycle energy, tools, etc. Also good with Pokemon whose Abilities activate when you play them like Crobat or Jirachi (I know it will rotate but it's a key competitive card I can think of).

Xerosic - Not a draw card. Goes well with VS Seeker. It's seen some use as of late, and I expect it to continues to do so.

Lysandre's Trump Card - Should be used in the same sort of decks it's used in now, and ignored otherwise. Can help you in the right situation, but can also hurt you if you're not careful.

Trevor - Not as playable as Ultra Ball or Fan Club. The only advantage is that being a Supporter, it can be played during Seismitoad lock... if that continues to work without Lasers. Don't expect to see it.

Archie's Ace in the Hole / Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick - Cheating the evolution rule is nice, though this isn't the most reliable way to do it. These cards will work best in a super-aggressive deck where practically every card can be played as soon as it's drawn. Of the two Maxie has slightly better synergy due to Korrina, but both have limited usefulness. Still, they may be played in Stage 2 decks.

Professor Birch's Observations - I don't like flip cards, but this isn't awful. Four cards is worse than five... which isn't so good but relative to most other draw Supporters from XY-on isn't too far off. Getting heads is great. Certainly more reliable than Gambler. It's possible to work with a four-card hand, but I would play 3-4 Shauna first only because I always flip tails at the worst possible time.

Teammates - Potentially a broken combo with Robo Substitute. Great effect and adorable FA, but it does come at a cost since you can only play it after one of your Pokemon is KOed. Probably a good one-of to discard early and VS Seeker back later on.

Be advised that 1-2 more sets will come out before the next rotation, and a new Supporter could come out that has a playable effect and will become a staple. There's also Item-based draw like Roller Skates, which has been shown to be useful when spammed, and the upcoming Acro Bike, which is definitely playable. It's really to early to tell what a decklist from next season will look like.
 
Nope. No way. I am not using 4 Shauna, and after my 5th game of flipping Tails on both Prof. Birches, I'll drop those too. Either TPCi can print new good draw Supporters, or I will just invent my own draw engine relying solely on Roller Skates, Manaphys, and search Supporters.

But seriously. As long as they have these super fast EX cards being printed, they're going to make the draw power to match.
 
My Little Keldeo said:
Pokemon may be trying to tone down draw support somewhat, or go back to "setup" Pokemon like we saw during the D/P/Pt era.

While I do like using Pokémon to set up (I use 2 Dedenne in every Stage 2 deck I play IRL) for draw power and such, the problem is that there isn't a huge amount to work with in that department. Here's a compiled list of what could be potentially useful draw Pokémon:

Delphox

This card in general has become a pretty strong attacker and support card, but considering on how it's a Stage 2, it loses incredibly hard to Seismitoad. It is nice that it draws off of an Ability instead of an attack, but considering that you'll be drawing only about 2-3 cards each time you use it, I don't know if it will be incredibly viable.

Shiftry

In terms of viability as a tech for drawing, I'd say that Shiftry is pretty average. It works best in terms of actual Shiftry / Milotic decks, and it is pretty limited since you have to specifically discard Grass Energy. Being an actual Shiftry player, I can personally testify that getting Grass Energy in your hand is much harder than it seems.

Kangaskhan EX

Probably the best in terms of Turn 1/2 draw, because of how it is a Basic AND because of it being Colorless. 3 cards is honestly really strong, but it falls difficultly because it is an EX (making it hard to get the hold of ) and has that pesky Fighting Weakness. A single Lucario-EX with a Muscle Band, Fighting Stadium, and Strong Energy OHKO's Kangaskhan-EX, giving up 2 precious prizes.

Furret

I do think that Furret is fun in terms of usefulness because of how it draws and discards. This can be fun in Fire and Metal decks, but it IS a Stage 1, making it a lot less viable in competitive play. The low HP also makes it incredibly fragile, especially with that awful Weakness.

Plusle

Kind of like how Rotom used to be used in Eelektrik, Plusle is at least decent with Bronzong. I've tried it out before, and it works pretty well in the specific match-ups. And when I say 'specific match-ups', I mean Fighting.dek and nothing else. Otherwise, I do like how it gets 2 advantages over Rotom. The first being 70HP, meaning that keeps 10 HP from a Lucario-EX's Missile Jab without boosters, and the second being the Metal Resistance for mirror match-ups.

Slurpuff

She's already seen a healthy amount of play with Seismitoad-EX and many others, and I do think that even outside of those archetypes this is a good card. Unlike Furret, it works off of an Ability, and it isn't stopped by Silent Lab. It should continue to be good for the next season, regardless of how good Seismitoad stays.

Torchic

It works really well in Blaziken decks(which I have personally tried as well in BCR-PHF), but I'm not sure if it is as good as Fiery Torch and Scorching Earth in other decks. It is helpful that it is an attack instead of an Item that gets stopped by 'toad, but it does give up prizes much easier than others because of just 50HP.

Milotic

While not a 'draw' card, it does recover techs you might need to use more than once, essentially making it a Stage 1 Dowsing Machine. The fact that it can only be used upon evolving does make it considerably worse than others, but it still has it's places.

Manaphy

Probably the strongest of them all, but the least versatile because it requires specific Energy Type. It does double as a strong Stage 2 and Mega Evolution recovery card, but whether or not it actually is used in decks outside of Water is a mystery because of the typing restriction.

Flygon

I honestly think that when all problems are taken into consideration, Flygon is probably the best of the Stage 2 draw cards. Shuffling is much better than straight draw because you can actually have a second try at getting a good hand. It also doubles as a strong disruption card.
 
My Little Keldeo said:
Pokemon may be trying to tone down draw support somewhat

I suspect they might be.

I reckon they are trying to push the game to using more diverse supporters. And they do that by

- Having Seismatoad make items less reliable
- Making draw supporters a little less attractive
- Making some cool new non-draw supporters, some of which have similar effects to the items we can't use quite as consistently as before

It might already be happening... we are seeing more non-draw supporters make people's lists, we've seen a competitive deck that doesn't completely rely on supporters for its draw (Toad-Slurpuff).
 
NintendoAlian said:
After the next rotation it is probable that N and Colress will rotate, so this is what I think the standard Supporter list will be:

4x Professor Sycamore
4x Shauna
2x Professor Birch's Observations
2x Lysandre
1x Lysandre's Trump Card

Pretty much this, but Professor Birch is actually better than Shauna since it gets a half an extra card on average. I'd also make room for Teammates (especially in stage 2 decks). I don't think it's as good as twins because it's dependent on an opponent KOing something and there are only. at most, 5 times in a game you'd be able to use it. But getting 2 of any cards is still such a powerful and broken effect.
 
pokedan24 said:
NintendoAlian said:
After the next rotation it is probable that N and Colress will rotate, so this is what I think the standard Supporter list will be:

4x Professor Sycamore
4x Shauna
2x Professor Birch's Observations
2x Lysandre
1x Lysandre's Trump Card

Pretty much this, but Professor Birch is actually better than Shauna since it gets a half an extra card on average. I'd also make room for Teammates (especially in stage 2 decks). I don't think it's as good as twins because it's dependent on an opponent KOing something and there are only. at most, 5 times in a game you'd be able to use it. But getting 2 of any cards is still such a powerful and broken effect.

Professor Birch is theoretically better than Shauna. What mathematics doesn't factor is that flipping a tails can make you lose the game. Teammates aren't that good, and are not a worthwhile spot for decks, IMO. Bicycles and Roller Skates are much more useful, as they are not situation and therefore are more reliable.
 
I don't see people using 4 Shauna, I rather use Birch. Or maybe 3/3. I like taking chances when it comes to Pokemon games, it makes it fun for me. :) I'm cool with flipping :D

EDIT: OH and I think Korrina makes more sense as a standard than Trump Card. I'm REALLY going to miss Skyla :'(
 
I don't like flip cards either, but I'll probably do some testing with Professor Birch's Observations. While it does have a flip, it's different from most flip cards where the effect fails if you flip tails. Things like Crushing Hammer and Hooligans Jim and Cass (debatable) have nice effects, but the coin flip really stunts their playability. Energy Removal was broken almost and probably one of the most hated cards like ever, but make it a flip, and it's nowhere near a staple. Going back to Professor Birch's Observations, I can live with getting a tails on my Supporter for turn. The potential reward of being able to draw 7 is worth it in my opinion because if you flip tails, it's essentially a slightly worse Shauna. On average, you'll still draw more cards then with Shauna.
 
If the next rotation stays to LT-on like I think it will, N and Bianca, which are 2 very strong supporters, will stick around for another year. I mention Bianca because despite the lack play, it has seen some viability as a supporter, is OK with VS seeker, and is definitely a possible choice to add to a deck if the supporter count is low.
If it wasn't rotated, all lists would be very similar IMHO:
4 N
4 Sycamore
2 Lysandre
2 Birch
1 Teammates
4 VS seeker
(also remember that there's no more dowsing at this point)
I think that Professor Birch is a much more effective Colress card for the future. While colress is amazing middle/late game, but so can Prof Birch. He's very good early game in replace of colress, because flipping for 4/7 cards is better then automatically having to draw 2-4 and waste a valueable late-game card.
Now, if it was XY-on, here's what I'd use:
3 Shauna
4 Sycamore
4 Birch
1 Teammates
2 Lysandre
3 VS seeker
 
You can't predict that far ahead in a game where we have a major change every set.
 
Im thinking the rotation will be XY on which would mean shauna will see more play because there is a lack of N and colress. my usual supporter lineup will likley be very similar to the one that Elbow mentioned in their XY on post. Shauna is not really a bad supporter at all once N and colress are rotated because there is no suporter aside from sycamore that will guarantee as many cards. Proffesor Birch will be a good supporter but at times will only get 4 cards so shauna outclasses it at that point.
 
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