For the mirror play Jirachi if you are concerned. Also always go first with Night March, you never know what your opponent is playing and regardless you want the turn of items.
Night March
- Thread starter littywitty
- Start date
There needs to be a way to stop Jolteon-EX from shutting down Night March. Im thinking that lots of energy denial would be appropiate.
You can either use an escape rope/lysandre combo, simply out speed it and knock it out before it attacks, play Maxie's Gallade, or tech in 1-1/2-2 lines of either Vespiquen or Zebstrika. Night March can dispatch jolteon in a number of ways, you just have to play it correctly.
I think that Jirachi is a great tech against Jolteon-EX. Generally, Jolteon-EX is set up turn 2 by a lightning energy and a double colorless energy. Since jirachi can be played immediately and attack the same turn, it can attack the Jolteon-EX, discard the DCE, and make Jirachi invincible to Jolteon-EX. While Jolteon still can attach another DCE and lysandre around Jirachi, it can't last forever. Eventually they will miss a turn to attack since they can't get the energy or means to bring up another pokemon to KO. After this it should be easy to OHKO the Jolteon with a night marcher.
Plays max elixirs instead.
Max elixir is unreliable and does not work on the active pokemon.
The Jolteon has free retreat, it is easy to adjust to this mechanic. I'm saying you can't rely on having dce attached. Basic energy can be set on turn 1. Jirachi is not useful enough and serves as a bad start. This detracts from consistency by being an unreliable tech starter. Night March is best in its purest form, with no tech Pokemon included. Xerosic and enhanced hammer are sufficient.
I half-agree to your terms. While I agree that Jirachi in itself isn't the best tech for Jolteon, it is a worthy tech for other matchups, such as Toad/ Tina, the mirror, sometimes Trees. While it does suck to start with, it really isn't hard to get it out of the active spot. And another thing that can help with those said matchups is Mew. I don't like the idea of playing 2-3, so I just play it in place of Buddy- Buddy Rescue, being a free retreat, (With Dimension Valley)one energy attacker that really stretches the 1-of basic energy. While I can't go to Nats, if I could, this'd be the deck to play.
Or just latios and run a couple of psychic with mew DONK!!!
Iv'e been testing, and i think that Yveltal-EX/Night March would be really good, Yveltal for support against trevenant
I don't know @Elbow I run max elixir and it works pretty well. I think it's more about how you manage your deck. Max elixir hits more based of the players thinning techniques. If your hesitant on your thinning, because you might need a card, you won't hit. But if you can accept to loose a little to gain a bit, you'll hit often. What I see is a lot of players play is the 12 energy count, expecting to hit because of the large energy count. You can play a smaller energy count, and just thin, it usually hits pretty consistently.
I run jolteon Glaceon a bit and NM can deal with it in numerous of ways. The most successful deck I have right now runs wabbafet. Wabbafett/Garbador...the deck slows night march down enough to get jolteon setup.
Man, if BC does not re-release it will be an odd state of affairs, decks are going to get slower. I think it will open up the stage and Mega game a bit.
I can't see a situation where I am running Night March and I am in a situation where I don't have enough energy on the field. Max Elixir is so unnecessary. Never do I feel like I have a pokemon on the bench that needs a basic energy attached and if I do I can just attach it that turn or the next one. In NM you run 4 DCE and at most 2 basic energy as well. It is so unlikely that you would hit a basic energy from these numbers that it makes the tech just as nonviable.
You also mention managing your deck. I don't know how a NM deck could function properly with 4 DCE and 6 energy + 2-4 max elixirs (essentially 1/5 of the deck) devoted to energy. You run Puzzle of Time and only need 3-4 KOes on opponents EXs/pokemon to seal the game; excess energy is wasted space.
Jolteon-EX is a hard match up, but basic energy is not the solution to beating it. For example, turn 1 you can get a KO on Jolteon if you go second. If Jolteon-EX is all set up, Jirachi deals with the attacker beautifully. And if it miraculously gets 3 basic energy and no bench threats turn 1, Jirachi can also swoop in for a win using it's second attack to put both active Pokemon asleep.
Not entirely sure how Wobb/Garb works. I know this isn't the thread for it, but Garb shuts off Wobb, and Wobb does almost all that garb does already. I don't see the point of running both. It does seem like a bad match for NM as Wobb is hard to start against, but it isn't impossible. A few good lysandres/escape rope or catchers can win the game.
Valid points, and I agree, I wouldn't run Max elixir in night march. I'm just saying that it does work, pretty reasonably, and the best card to run in conjunction with it is BC.
As for the garb. Wobuffet, I'm going to start another thread. I think that is the right idea. It's a trick deck. It runs Wally with Garbordor. But ya it hoses every bodies abilities at all times and slows the game down to allow for cards like jolteon and glaceon to establish themselves. I've played it several times and the lysandre escape does not work as well. NM plays sycamore and without Shaymin ex for more draw support they are forced to play one or the other. Usually they drop escape rope for the sycamore to get more NM's in the pile. They loose resources that are normally needed to pull it off. And without Shaymin EX draw support the deck begins to break down early allowing jolteon to establish itself. They are basically forced to play NM slow, relying more on sycamore for draw support.
As for the garb. Wobuffet, I'm going to start another thread. I think that is the right idea. It's a trick deck. It runs Wally with Garbordor. But ya it hoses every bodies abilities at all times and slows the game down to allow for cards like jolteon and glaceon to establish themselves. I've played it several times and the lysandre escape does not work as well. NM plays sycamore and without Shaymin ex for more draw support they are forced to play one or the other. Usually they drop escape rope for the sycamore to get more NM's in the pile. They loose resources that are normally needed to pull it off. And without Shaymin EX draw support the deck begins to break down early allowing jolteon to establish itself. They are basically forced to play NM slow, relying more on sycamore for draw support.
Do we know whether Karen is being printed in the English release of Steam Siege?
If it is, it will be fascinating to see how Night March will be affected at Worlds and whether players will avoid playing the deck.
If it is, it will be fascinating to see how Night March will be affected at Worlds and whether players will avoid playing the deck.
It doesn't seem to be confirmed or denied at this time.
No, Karen won't be available.
Yes and no, the true counter to anything will be determined on your pairings. Though the top tier decks will make it to the end, It Depends on what they were paired with to get there. Never take the winner as the top deck just realize it is just a really good deck. Really, pairings decide the fate of Pokemon more then the actual decks that are played.
If it is within the top 5 decks, any player can counter based on pairings they receive at start of tournament. Unless you know, u received all the counter pairings, then u just might as well drop. " That's pokemon"
Does anyone here who uses Night March ever feel like they run into 60-card Syndrome whenever they use it?
Night March already has the option to run multiple tech cards such as Xerosic, Enhanced Hammer, Fates Collide Mew, Vespiquen, etc., but now, they also have access to Pokemon Ranger and that Special Energy Retriever card with the release of Steam Siege. Does anyone think that's a bit too many techs to work with when you only have space for 60?
Night March already has the option to run multiple tech cards such as Xerosic, Enhanced Hammer, Fates Collide Mew, Vespiquen, etc., but now, they also have access to Pokemon Ranger and that Special Energy Retriever card with the release of Steam Siege. Does anyone think that's a bit too many techs to work with when you only have space for 60?
The deck is gonna rotate in 2-3 weeks. Don't mind it.