Expanded Ninja Box- Unified minds

[Laurier_Ex]

Below is my current Ninja Box list for expanded format. While the deck struggled a bit against a few new decks after Unbroken Bonds was released, Unified Minds brought some great new card additions that makes the deck even stronger than ever before. The deck can beat just about anything. Garbotoxin is still something to be worried about and some heavily disruptive decks can be hard to handle without switching a few cards up but it can counter almost anything.


****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

##Pokémon - 21

* 2 Shaymin-EX ROS 77
* 1 Tauros-GX SUM 156
* 1 Latias-EX PLF 85
* 1 Comfey GRI 93
* 1 Machamp-EX AOR 90
* 1 Pheromosa & Buzzwole-GX UNB 1
* 1 Pheromosa-GX UPR 140
* 1 Dedenne-GX UNB 57
* 2 Jolteon-EX GEN 28
* 1 Magearna-EX STS 110
* 1 Latios-GX UNM 78
* 2 Mewtwo & Mew-GX UNM 71
* 1 Mewtwo-EX BKT 164
* 2 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 60
* 2 Unown AOR 30
* 1 Keldeo-GX UNM 47

##Trainer Cards - 28

* 2 Fighting Fury Belt BKP 99
* 1 Thunder Mountain {*} LOT 191
* 2 Mallow GRI 127
* 1 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
* 1 Hapu UNM 200
* 1 Mysterious Treasure FLI 113
* 2 Pokémon Communication TEU 152
* 1 Scramble Switch PLS 129
* 2 Dimension Valley PHF 93
* 3 Ninja Boy STS 103
* 4 Ultra Ball SUM 135
* 1 Battle Compressor Team Flare Gear PHF 92
* 2 Guzma BUS 115
* 3 VS Seeker ROS 110
* 1 Field Blower GRI 163
* 1 N NVI 101

##Energy - 11

* 1 Beast Energy {*} FLI 117
* 2 Rainbow Energy SUM 137
* 4 Prism Energy NXD 93
* 4 Double Colorless Energy XY 130

Total Cards - 60

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******

- Mewtwo&Mew TTGX: While this is the strongest attacker in the deck, I chose not to go overboard with it because it can be shut down totally by Garbotoxin or things like Power plant. Copying moves like Mad Bull Gx or Steaming Mad totally counters anything trying to 2HKO you. Damage Change and Miraculous Duo GX keeps you alive forever and counters spread decks and non-gx decks that cannot OHKO you very well. and then of course you have the opportunity of using either Crystal Ray, Flash Ray or Tag Purge to make yourself immune to whatever comes up against you. Finally, Barrier Break and Sonic Wave goes through snything that would want to stall you.

- Keldeo-GX: Adding Keldeo-GX to the arsenal seems logic. It provides you with a better water attaker in times where fire decks and very popular with the bonus of being immuned to GX or EX attackers. Reshiram&Charizard TTGX as well as Blacephalon were hard to beat with the deck because the first could go through Flash Ray while the second could make use of both basic and evolved pokemon making it harder to stall. Without a proper way to OHKO fire, the matchup was bad. Now we have improved these matchups greatly.

- Latios-GX: Still not totally convinced yet about this one but I can see how the GX attack can improve the odds of winning against Reshiram&Charizard- TTGX by taking away their piercing Gx attack. The ability is a turn off considering that we play around stall a lot and benching a lot can result in loosing by gusting effects. I would rather have Mewtwo&Mew TTGX copying the attack to avoid that.

- Hapu: In a deck where everything is about finding the right cards, Hapu seems like a decent Supporter to use. It can also help discarding a few pokemons to feed Mewtwo&Mew TTGX attack pool.

I decided to keep Buzzwole&Pheromosa TTGX, Pheromosa GX as well as life forest in the deck but these I guess could be replaced by something else. I still like the options that these provide; the dunk, the multi-prize move as well as sustainability. The attacks are cheap and it is more often than not a good way to attack on the first or second turn when you got few energies on the board, especially when you can use a draw pokemon with Mallow to pull that beast energy right into your hand.

I still need to do some more testing but the list seems very solid and provides a lot of fun as you got so many crazy moves to pull out.

 

[AngryBokoblin]

Just remember that channeler gets rid of clear vision.

 

[Merovingian]

I'm going to start with this: Expanded is a mess right now for a couple reasons:

- We haven't had much of any significant postings of what has changed in the format. There have been a tiny handful of League Cups recently, but all they have shown is that the meta is kind of all over the place, as well as leaving me to believe that because there isn't any pressing need to play Expanded right now, I'd say about 80% of people who play it are just winging it.

- Since 2017, Expanded Regionals have been getting pushed later and later. 2017 started the season off with Expanded Regionals (Ft. Wayne) as the first Regionals of the season. 2018 had it's first Expanded Regionals in mid-late October. This season, we don't get our first one until early November--but then get our second one a week after; and neither of them will have Cosmic Eclipse legal. Dallas comes 2 months later, and we get an Expanded regional every month until April. 2019/2020 is really weird for Expanded this year.

Basically, we aren't going to get a good, clear representation of the Expanded meta until October, a month before the first Expanded regionals. We'll have Cup results before then, but they'll be slowly trickling out and some Cups will be stacked with the "movers and shakers" more than others. Cup results are always "take it with a grain of salt.

And Unified Minds is now legal so we should expect to see how that set fares up in Expanded.

So here's my question for you: How far do you want to take your deck concept? Challenge? Cup? Regionals?

Depending on your answer will depend on how we approach it. For example, for just locals, it would help if I knew how often you get to go to Expanded events and whats available in your area to counter specific threats.
For MAYBE Cup play, but definite Regional play, I have an idea of what I think the meta currently looks like with what I've seen up to this point.

The big issue is that toolbox decks are notoriously difficult to fine tune. For locals play, it could be in a constant state of flux. For a Regional, you can fine tune it (to a point) to where it can cover a good chunk of the meta--meta forgiving.

So, where are you taking it?

 

[Laurier_Ex]

I'm going to start with this: Expanded is a mess right now for a couple reasons:

- We haven't had much of any significant postings of what has changed in the format. There have been a tiny handful of League Cups recently, but all they have shown is that the meta is kind of all over the place, as well as leaving me to believe that because there isn't any pressing need to play Expanded right now, I'd say about 80% of people who play it are just winging it.

- Since 2017, Expanded Regionals have been getting pushed later and later. 2017 started the season off with Expanded Regionals (Ft. Wayne) as the first Regionals of the season. 2018 had it's first Expanded Regionals in mid-late October. This season, we don't get our first one until early November--but then get our second one a week after; and neither of them will have Cosmic Eclipse legal. Dallas comes 2 months later, and we get an Expanded regional every month until April. 2019/2020 is really weird for Expanded this year.

Basically, we aren't going to get a good, clear representation of the Expanded meta until October, a month before the first Expanded regionals. We'll have Cup results before then, but they'll be slowly trickling out and some Cups will be stacked with the "movers and shakers" more than others. Cup results are always "take it with a grain of salt.

And Unified Minds is now legal so we should expect to see how that set fares up in Expanded.

So here's my question for you: How far do you want to take your deck concept? Challenge? Cup? Regionals?

Depending on your answer will depend on how we approach it. For example, for just locals, it would help if I knew how often you get to go to Expanded events and whats available in your area to counter specific threats.
For MAYBE Cup play, but definite Regional play, I have an idea of what I think the meta currently looks like with what I've seen up to this point.

The big issue is that toolbox decks are notoriously difficult to fine tune. For locals play, it could be in a constant state of flux. For a Regional, you can fine tune it (to a point) to where it can cover a good chunk of the meta--meta forgiving.

So, where are you taking it?

Seems like you want to know a bit more about my background and what the deck is designed for. First off, I will answer your question: I got no intent in taking the deck anywhere. While gaming is part of my life, the only time I get to invest into it is 2-4 hours per day before going to sleep or during the winter when there is not much to do because snow is piled 6 feet high and I am not working. I live in the country side far from any local events so I can only enjoy that hobby online. I got 4 kids, I get to travel all around the country for work and when I am back home I am still working because I own over 300 acres of land. I got many projects aside from gaming. I wish I had more time and could actually go professional but that is hardly possible without major changes to my way of life.

I am 38 years old, I have been gaming since I am 7 on a regular basis. I started playing PTCGO since 2014. I did ton of online gaming with Starcraft2, Warcraft3, Dota2 and PTCGO being the main ones over the past 20 years. I always enjoyed gaming but mostly for the strategic aspect of it. I mainly play it with the goal of breaking the meta with something different from whats played. For instance, when I played Warcraft 3 back then, as a UD player, I would not play DK like anyone else. I find it boring to follow everyone else track. So i developed my own strategy using CL/PL as heroes to achieve a wooping 65% win rate over the course of more than 1500 games. Not bad for something only myself played and I have to admit that I am not the fastest with a keyboard. Its similar for PTCG, I mostly play the Ninja Box deck because it is a concept I believe in and win with it and on top of that, it is much more enjoyable and rewarding to play as most decks out there. I push onto something that innovates and that is what makes me happy. I started building around the idea as soon as Ninja Boy was released and have played mostly with this deck for the past 3 year. I cant count how many games I played with it so far but it has been tested, trust me on that.

The Ninja Box was designed at first as a deck that would allow me to win against the most annoying decks in the expanded format at the time; Night march, Vespiquen, Greninja and Trevenant. Those decks where very common on PTCGO and could get everyone pissed very quickly. Ninja Box, including Jolteon-EX, Glaceon-EX, Latias-EX and Karen would allow me to have a upper hand on them more often than not. People used to play Pokemon Ranger more often back then but not enough to deprive me from playing the deck. By then, dealing with Greninja was harder because there were fewer counters but I had included Leafeon-EX that would OHKO Greninja Break while healing at the same time giving it some more resilience in order to withstand the frogs. Today, Including Pheromosa-GX results in me donking Greninja decks right off the bat more than 50% of the time if I go first because they have very few basics and end up most of the time having nothing else benched before they get to play. In this format, the deck can deal with just about anything and is in a very good state. Would I bring that deck to an event if I could? Yes without hesitation. It would maybe be tweaked a bit differently depending on what I am expecting to play against but I am highly confident that it could take most of the meta off guard. People dont play Pokemon Ranger much and I have not faced one deck with Channeler so far. Even if they did play it, unless they can OHKO the treat, the deck can return KO easily using powerful attacks. Investing into those supporters for the turn can also slow things down for your opponent. Lock decks and heavy disruptive decks can still be a struggle but there are some ways to deal with it. Including things like Regirock XY promo or Oranguru ULP for instance.

That being said, people are always resilient to play something odd or new and that has not been tested by renowned players. They need proofs before they even want to try it out. But remember there will always be someone with balls big enough to bring a rogue deck in an event that everyone would not even consider playing. And sometimes, these rogue decks have been the ones winning the events. People often doubted this deck and I accepted many challenges against good players and it never failed me. I can prove anyone that this deck is good and able to counter just about anything coming its way, especially if you are not prepared for it.

 

[Merovingian]

If I have it correctly, this is mostly PTCGO and any event you have access to.

I'm not familiar with PTCGO meta (if there is one). You mention Greninja BREAK, let me assure you, that deck is played in such low low quantities now that it's not even worth factoring in.

Pokemon Ranger and Channeler are also non-existant in the meta. If you really are worried about this, look at other decks that are doing good competitively that have effects that Ranger and Channeler would cancel. The only one off the top of my head is Seismitoad-EX, but it's not played in such as mass quantity that teching for it is necessary.
Plus, when it comes to techs, it's usually "1 tech per opposing deck". So the big thing is, "can this tech swing a matchup in my favor". Typically, when you use a tech, it'll only help you if your matchup is slightly unfavorable, which can boost you to even to slightly favorable.

Promo Giratina is a good example for this. A LOT of people think that if they want to beat the Trevenant matchup, you just tech in Giratina and you'll have a favorable matchup against Trevenant. Problem is, if you have an unfavorable/autoloss matchup to Trevenant, a Promo Giratina isn't going to help you--only if your deck has legs to stand up against it in the first place.

Reshiram and Charizard-GX and Blacephalon decks are not played in competitive Expanded; thank Archie's Blastoise for that one.

I don't think Pheromosa-GX or Pheromosa and Buzzwole-GX are worth using. I can kinda see Pheromosa-GX if you're going first, and it can help against stuff like Archie's Blastoise if you're going first (especially if you can nail Weakness. But it's not good anywhere else. GG for 60 and Confusion is sort of weak and it's GX is only good if you're winning already. It won't help you if you need to make a comeback.

The part that worries me about the Joleon-EX/Glaceon-EX is that, earlier in the season when Tag Team came out, LOTS of decks were teching in Pyroar (Intimidating Fang) to block off Big Basic decks. Decks nowadays have some sort of alternate attacker thats an Evolution of some kind. Zoroark-GX has itself as an Evolution as well as basic attackers. Turbo Dark can use an Evolution like Incineroar-GX (the Dark variant) and get put into play VIA Greninja & Zoroark-GX's Dark Union GX, Pikachu and Zekrom-GX can use the new Eelektross as an Evolution attacker if it needs to. Archie's has big BAsics and can bring out Kingdra-GX as an evolution. And since your primary mode of operation is attacking and you have no Item lock or Ability lock, you won't have a good time against Shock Lock. But that deck is played in so few quantities because of how limited Tropical Beach is, so there's that. These decks will be part of your Tier-1. Your goal will be checking top deck results in Cups and Regionals and seeing if the Tier-1 stuff is not diversifying their attackers in regards to Basics/Evolutions. Expanded is VERY Basic-heavy right now, so Jolteon-EX will be your go-to if anything else, and I would increase it's count to at least 2.

The problem with building a deck that can "flank" the meta is that you need to find weaknesses among a majority of the meta that they all commonly share and build your deck to exploit that weakness.
Among the Tier-1, you should be able to have an even/favorable matchup to at least half of them. If you can beat anything Tier-2 and below, but lose to only the tier-1, it's going to go badly. Figuring out what you could lose to and seeing if you're comfortable with losing to those decks is something that needs to be heavily weighed.

I went to the Dallas Regional this year with Sableye / Raichu "Shock Lock" deck. It took an autoloss to Trevenant, bad matchup against Zoroark / Golisopod (which won the event), and had a few other dubious matchups (like Greninja). At some point, you have to take your losses somewhere--but make sure that you're not going to lose to the most popular two decks of the format as you'll see those in spades.

Hope this helps.

 

[Laurier_Ex]

If I have it correctly, this is mostly PTCGO and any event you have access to.

I'm not familiar with PTCGO meta (if there is one). You mention Greninja BREAK, let me assure you, that deck is played in such low low quantities now that it's not even worth factoring in.

Pokemon Ranger and Channeler are also non-existant in the meta. If you really are worried about this, look at other decks that are doing good competitively that have effects that Ranger and Channeler would cancel. The only one off the top of my head is Seismitoad-EX, but it's not played in such as mass quantity that teching for it is necessary.
Plus, when it comes to techs, it's usually "1 tech per opposing deck". So the big thing is, "can this tech swing a matchup in my favor". Typically, when you use a tech, it'll only help you if your matchup is slightly unfavorable, which can boost you to even to slightly favorable.

Promo Giratina is a good example for this. A LOT of people think that if they want to beat the Trevenant matchup, you just tech in Giratina and you'll have a favorable matchup against Trevenant. Problem is, if you have an unfavorable/autoloss matchup to Trevenant, a Promo Giratina isn't going to help you--only if your deck has legs to stand up against it in the first place.

Reshiram and Charizard-GX and Blacephalon decks are not played in competitive Expanded; thank Archie's Blastoise for that one.

I don't think Pheromosa-GX or Pheromosa and Buzzwole-GX are worth using. I can kinda see Pheromosa-GX if you're going first, and it can help against stuff like Archie's Blastoise if you're going first (especially if you can nail Weakness. But it's not good anywhere else. GG for 60 and Confusion is sort of weak and it's GX is only good if you're winning already. It won't help you if you need to make a comeback.

The part that worries me about the Joleon-EX/Glaceon-EX is that, earlier in the season when Tag Team came out, LOTS of decks were teching in Pyroar (Intimidating Fang) to block off Big Basic decks. Decks nowadays have some sort of alternate attacker thats an Evolution of some kind. Zoroark-GX has itself as an Evolution as well as basic attackers. Turbo Dark can use an Evolution like Incineroar-GX (the Dark variant) and get put into play VIA Greninja & Zoroark-GX's Dark Union GX, Pikachu and Zekrom-GX can use the new Eelektross as an Evolution attacker if it needs to. Archie's has big BAsics and can bring out Kingdra-GX as an evolution. And since your primary mode of operation is attacking and you have no Item lock or Ability lock, you won't have a good time against Shock Lock. But that deck is played in so few quantities because of how limited Tropical Beach is, so there's that. These decks will be part of your Tier-1. Your goal will be checking top deck results in Cups and Regionals and seeing if the Tier-1 stuff is not diversifying their attackers in regards to Basics/Evolutions. Expanded is VERY Basic-heavy right now, so Jolteon-EX will be your go-to if anything else, and I would increase it's count to at least 2.

The problem with building a deck that can "flank" the meta is that you need to find weaknesses among a majority of the meta that they all commonly share and build your deck to exploit that weakness.
Among the Tier-1, you should be able to have an even/favorable matchup to at least half of them. If you can beat anything Tier-2 and below, but lose to only the tier-1, it's going to go badly. Figuring out what you could lose to and seeing if you're comfortable with losing to those decks is something that needs to be heavily weighed.

I went to the Dallas Regional this year with Sableye / Raichu "Shock Lock" deck. It took an autoloss to Trevenant, bad matchup against Zoroark / Golisopod (which won the event), and had a few other dubious matchups (like Greninja). At some point, you have to take your losses somewhere--but make sure that you're not going to lose to the most popular two decks of the format as you'll see those in spades.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for your input. I follow a lot of whats going on in the meta so I am aware of most of the stuff you brought up and agree about everything you said.

Pheromosa-GX used to be better when Greninja-Break and Bozzwole deck was a thing. Donk on Rockruff, Diancie or even Regirock-EX with a choice band if they were un fortunate enough to only draw into 1 pokemon to start with. Buzzwole&Pheromosa-Gx on the other hand can come very handy when you need to win the prize trade against 1 prize attackers and it also provides you with a very strong attack for a relatively low energy cost. I do not use the first attack too often to be honest. I am questioning keeping those as well as Life Forest but like I said in my last post, they bring a few nice options to the table like cheap attacks with good value when you take into account that they can use Beast Ring. Beast ring with a Choice Band and you can also OHKO Seismitoad-EX or Blastoise if you use Fury Belt.

About Pyroar I am not totally sure but Sonic Edge or Barrier Break should be able to hit through it. Saying I am not totally sure because while I know that those attacks go through things like Hoopa, Baby Ninetales, Xurkitree-Gx and stuff like that but the other day it would not pierce through Vileplume. But I believe Vileplume would be an exception and the only one problem since it prevents your basics from attacking which is not the case with Pyroar and if you can attack it will pierce. The other thing I believe would be to use Damage Swap because it is not an attack but an effect of an attack granted you got enough counters on one of your Pokemon. Last thing is to avoid having them to evolve and use Guzma. Lycanroc’s inclusion in Buzzwole decks was the way I would loose against them if I was not able to knock them off before they could evolve it. But I can tell you from experience that unless they quickly evolve it in the first few turns, using Guzma to avoid this happen is very manageable.

Going against Turbo dark decks, the key pieces are Jolteon, Comfey, Keldeo-GX and to a lesser extend, Machamp-Ex, Tauros-GX and Mewtwo&Mew-GX. Comfey can prevent Darkrai-GX from using its GX to go thorough Flash Ray or Darkrai Prism or Malamar from putting you to sleep. Keldeo-GX can stall while you wait for the right time to take out Darkrai prism and then you are ok. The only issue I see here is if the deck plays Mew to copy attacks and go through Keldeo-GX with a OHKO. But then again, you could then retaliate with Mewtwo&Mew-TTGX and if they cannot use stretcher you have a decent chance of winning.

I cant talk too much about Eelektross because I never got to play against it but that should be a one of copy and Guzma is a thing to prevent them from evolving. Pikachu and Zekrom’s GX attack can be a treat. You either try to remove prizes off your bench and have only Jolteon-EX there or you bench magearna to avoid getting Guzma’ed and then Bolted with Jolteon on the bench. Xurkitree-GX can also be a problem, not because it can take KO but because he can deck you out if you only rely on stalling to win. There are ways to take Xurkitree-GX out but will require you to commit into something else than Jolteon-EX or use a few Lightning energies in your deck.

Archie’s is indeed strong and Kingdar is the main obstacle here. But then again, you can stall with Keldeo and they will need to commit with Blastoise. When they do, you can use Ninja boy and knock it out with something like a Grass attacker, Tauros or Machamp because most of the time he will need to 2HKO you. Pheromosa-GX can donk if they end up starting with execute in the active but that is not very likely because they still play a lot of basics.

Shock lock is a deck I can beat because Comfey prevents paralysis. If you can get going before they do, it is usually alright. I know I am forgetting a trick the deck has to manage and pull the win but as of yet I win more than I loose against it from testing.

I believe that the biggest nemesis the deck would have is Garbotoxin since it can shot down your drawing because using Ninja Boy most of the time means that you rely on Shaymin-EX or Dedenne-GX to draw cards. I would probably play more Field Blowers if that was something I was expecting to go against. Believe me, this deck can counter just about anything as long as it has the key components not prized. Going against things like Sableye or Wailord would probably require playing Oranguru ULP or Regirock XY promo. You can find a way to tech a card to win against just about anything.

 

[CharlieBirdy]

Yay! I can finally reply to my ninja hero!

At the risk of starting the fire (or extinguishing mine) I'll hint around my deck list. I've so far won 3 events in expanded since legality online, and received 2nd in the fourth.

My thoughts have been start mewtwo! By far the hardest thing to ohko in the deck, and your most viable attacker. Use at least 2.
Keldeo is clutch for the mirror, ninetails. Not sure about the vileplume prob, but haven't yet seen it and...
I play both Toad Ex and Noivern gx. Item lock is crucial for early games (2 treasures is mewtwo in hand and noiv in discard). Plus, spec energy shutdown destroys a lot of rogue.

Latios is interesting, but free retreat saved my butt for sure.

Damage swap? Oh. My. Lord. Ninetails gx anyone? I've totally used the bench snipe, and end most games with Blizzard edge.

The only attacker I'm otherwise considering is Charizard GX (aside from Glaceon and Jolteon obviously) because he's a way better version of Dragonite GX, but the attack cost isn't really worth it; I haven't needed it to win.
I think a lot of the monsters are otherwise fluff, and more resources can be spent on dimension valley and field blower to fight ability lock. Only one battle compressor seems really ineffective when you have few other discard options. Hapu could be a very clutch card, but doesnt a Juniper give you way more options in all reality for your next turn?

Whereas you have a lot of Basics that could potentially start, I have limited those down and run at least two evolution Pokemon who have a really strong attacks which can be utilized later game. Ninja boy is very fun, tricky card but it does not necessarily set up turn 2 to be a game winner, so you are better off starting to power up the real potential attackers of this deck and playing a draw supporter first turn.

I don't use tools, the goal is a lock out. 4 prisms, rainbows, and dce. I tested with giovanni's exile, AZ has way better value imo.

And that's pretty much it. I am leaving my list really slim and 4 of maxed on crucial items for future teching. Biggest threats so far are Trev (omg is this it's comeback moment?) Dark box (you have all the tools to beat them, but how? Every game, how?) And venusaur gx (Poke Center Lady please!!!!)

 

[Laurier_Ex]

Yay! I can finally reply to my ninja hero!

At the risk of starting the fire (or extinguishing mine) I'll hint around my deck list. I've so far won 3 events in expanded since legality online, and received 2nd in the fourth.

My thoughts have been start mewtwo! By far the hardest thing to ohko in the deck, and your most viable attacker. Use at least 2.
Keldeo is clutch for the mirror, minerals

Mewtwo is indeed the strongest attacker. I got two copies so I have been playing the 2nd one in and out. Mewtwo will become very popular and people will start playing counters to it. This is mostly why I am trying to avoid going too much going all-in on the card. Mewtwo&Mew-GX has one main weakness, he is ability reliant. This is why I always preferred focusing on Ninja Boy to go through one attacker to the other instead on relying solely on a pokemon that can be shut down. Mew-EX and Marshadow-GX had the same weakness.

What happens if I use Latias-EX to counter Mewtwo&Mew-GX is that the opponent will likely want to use a piercing attack like Barrier Break or Sonic Edge. In that case, Ninja Boy can then be used to retaliate by going into Tauros-GX and using Mad Bull GX, knocking the Mewtwo&Mew-GX with a single DCE.

And btw I would be interested in your list. :j

 

[CharlieBirdy]

I'm still not sold on Mad Bull GX because nine tails gives a heal as does Mewtwo's attack, and most things have no problem hitting 180 damage right now.

I'll make my list up and private message you with it

Still horrified about the mirror match but if I remember anything about the old days of X ball Mewtwo you just play another X ball Mewtwo after you get knocked out to knockout theirs.

 

[Laurier_Ex]

Still horrified about the mirror match but if I remember anything about the old days of X ball Mewtwo you just play another X ball Mewtwo after you get knocked out to knockout theirs.

I played a few mirrors so far. Not like it was a mirror since my deck is different but they were Mewtwo&Mew-GX decks. The first one was offensive and had fire acceleration engine using Wielder. Cant recall how it actually went down but I won that game. The main thing to be worried about is Reshizard’s GX attack since it pierces Flash Rays defense. Basically, when thats out of the equation, Flash Ray wins it unless they have some other trick tech incorporated in the deck. Keldeo-GX is also used to stall and can also OHKO Reshizard. Also nice to point out that Fighting Fury belt brings M&M-TTGX to 310Hp which can withstand a Reshizard fully charged GX attack.

The second deck played a psychic tool box. I was not careful and lost some quick prizes by doing mistakes (like not noticing he had Mewtwo-EX Damage change in the discard) but in the end, I was able to just stall with Flash Ray basically and swap to take The knockouts. That game was wierd and I doubt either him or I played very well but basically my strategy was to just stall without benching snything more and force him to deck out until I saw he was aiming to bench Mega Mewtwo-EX to try to take me out. It went down to me winning before he could make is move but that was close. He had 70 damage counters but had a Fugting Fury Belt so I needed to use mallow in order to find my Field Blower and remove it so I could use M&M-TTGX GX attack and do just enough damage to take the last 3 prizes.

I played another game against one that had Mewtwo-GX using Giratina and M-Gardevoir-EX attack but that one I lost right away because I never realized it was a Mewtwo &Mew-TTGX deck and didnt bench anything. So he knocked me out on first turn with 1 energy and the stadium up.

Personally I understand people going straight for Mewtwo&Mew-TTGX because it is more explosive. On the other hand, if we look at Mew-EX and Marshadow-GX that came before, while they were weaker, they could never prevail in the meta due to the fact that they had a major weakness which was being reliant on the ability to be able to swing. The whole point of the Ninja Boy engine I worked on was to remove that weakness as much as I could. Time will tell but I believe that building something too focused around Mewtwo&Mew-GX wont be able to prevail in the expanded meta because people will include counters to it.

 

[CharlieBirdy]

I think the main problem though, is the basics you ninja into don't "make the swing." Jolteon gx is gonna ohko the ex brother. Machamp is a dead active after darkrai swings for 200. Tauros hits weakness on... Nothing... Your start rate for a phero gx fast raid is probably just above 5 percent, 7 of your 20 monsters are 'bench to draw' cards in a deck that wants to give no gust options. Yes, there are two stadiums and monsters that shut down weakness, but I think you should worry more about finding new techs against the new meta because that's what the kids will play.

 

[Laurier_Ex]

So whats t

I think the main problem though, is the basics you ninja into don't "make the swing." Jolteon gx is gonna ohko the ex brother. Machamp is a dead active after darkrai swings for 200. Tauros hits weakness on... Nothing... Your start rate for a phero gx fast raid is probably just above 5 percent, 7 of your 20 monsters are 'bench to draw' cards in a deck that wants to give no gust options. Yes, there are two stadiums and monsters that shut down weakness, but I think you should worry more about finding new techs against the new meta because that's what the kids will play.

I think you forget something very important here. I have a lot of different pokemon types and those can hit for weakness. If i need to swing I got a lot of options. Tauros just OHKO anything with 90dmg counters and a DCE he does not need to hit weakness. Machamp does the same with only some more counters and without wasting the GX attack and for only 1 extra energy. It will most likely die afterwards but it can take prizes. Than you just transition. Mewtwo&Mew-TTGX copies Buzzmoza and hits for 190dmg for only 2 energies and the stadium. Thats just about the best attack you can get for that cheap coming from a basic. You dont use pokemons you dont need and you choose between them depending on matchup.

When I play against Darkrai, the main attackers are Jolteon-EX and Keldeon-GX with Comfey support not Machamp-EX. When I play against Jolteon-GX, I am not relying on Jolteon-EX. And Pheromosa-GX has a much higher rate than that. If you get Mallow and Shaymin-EX, you basically get Beast Energy with Scramble and you have very high chances of hitting for 60dmg starting. Believe me, you dont want to have only a 60hp pokemon in the active against my deck.

Lets talk about gust because this is an aspect of the deck I worked on and very proud of. You noticed I play Unown? This allows me to get rid of benched pokemons and avoid loosing from gust. Thats the whole point of running Unown and Ninja Boy together. I can draw from Shaymin and then remove it after i set up the stall. Because I rely on Ninja Boy, I cant play much draw supporters, I need to draw out of pokemon. Ninja Boy is just about the most flexible supporter when you start thinking about it. He can be used to draw, switch out your active, clear your bench and much more.

Id be interested in knowing what is the meta according to you. I play PTCGO so I just end up playing a variety of decks and thats why I play so many different techs, to avoid as much as I can any auto loss. I seen a lot of Zoroark-GX/Raticate lately. Unless they can Muk, they loose, Turbo dark is not a problem neither is Reshizard-GX. Just trying to figure out what would be your meta call here. And by the way, I am always ready to prove people wrong on their assumptions about my deck. I did it numerous times. Just tell me when and ai will be ready.

 

[CharlieBirdy]

My meta call is mewmew. AZ the worthless stuff rather than trade them for 1 drawn. ability block is no problem for me because it can be dealt with on my turn, and I have the draw supporters to get there. Gladion for a poor prize game, and I only need 1-2 ninja if I can AZ, or have good start odds. Maxing VS ensures it is accessible, as does compressor maxing.
I doubt I'm going to change your mind about Tauros or machamp, but I also doubt you'll find anyone who finds them intimidating currently. T1 concede win on compressing jolteon, glaceon & noivern with energy attachment to mewmew and cynthia? Confirmed. I'm going for more of those, every night.

 

[Laurier_Ex]

My meta call is mewmew. AZ the worthless stuff rather than trade them for 1 drawn. ability block is no problem for me because it can be dealt with on my turn, and I have the draw supporters to get there. Gladion for a poor prize game, and I only need 1-2 ninja if I can AZ, or have good start odds. Maxing VS ensures it is accessible, as does compressor maxing.
I doubt I'm going to change your mind about Tauros or machamp, but I also doubt you'll find anyone who finds them intimidating currently. T1 concede win on compressing jolteon, glaceon & noivern with energy attachment to mewmew and cynthia? Confirmed. I'm going for more of those, every night.

I understand where you are coming from and calling Mewmew meta is what most people will do hence people will have counters to it. How many people will try and play Mewmew? Tons of them I believe. You will see Garbodor rampant out there. You will also see things like Sigilyph-GX and Gengar&Mimikyu-TTGX. This should be part of the meta. Mewmew gives away 3 prizes so this is also something to think about.

AZ does the same as Ninja Boy with Unown would except it is not versatile as Ninja Boy is the way I see it. Takes 1 less space but there is also a nice synergy here with Mallow/Unown, giving you access to exactly the card you need.

Mewmew might be stronger but is more focused and less diversified which makes it in turn more easy to counter. Just trying to weight pros and cons and trying to state the facts. And thats my opinion and you dont have to agree on it.

 

[CharlieBirdy]

Siglyph hurts your monsters as well, trashalanche is a conservation issue, 2 FB min for garbotoxin (still absent in my games), Mimikgar COULD T2 anyone anyway...So... Be prepared to tech. Yup, on it.

Btw. In a welder engine (uhg) an eeveelution is def possible (to get around vileplume), as are Celebsaur and/or other gx options, provided rainbow energy.

Alternate energy engines are the new victinni (search two basics), and maybe, this is crazy but hear me out...
Dragon Love tag team gx's gx.
Granted, it's 5 basics from the discard, but in theory it can be done with only 1 energy with dimension valley to gain the immunity.

Thoughts on a tech bird trio gx? Kinda tanky, I'm gaga for shuffle away attacks, and 3 rainbow for 210 dmg isn't bad...

You shaymin loop many opponents? Trev is the only one that comes to mind as still a possibility, maybe Hit and Run too...

I would actually love for Mimikgar to be great, it's my favorite tag team and I pulled 2 goldies online

 

[Merovingian]

I understand where you are coming from and calling Mewmew meta is what most people will do hence people will have counters to it.

People are always going to try the new spice when it's released. In the case of dedicated Mewtwo & Mew-GX decks, it's not a deck you can look at at go "X cards are absolute musts to make this good". I have seen SEVERAL Mewtwo & Mew-GX builds that vary on strategy. Some are more disruption based, some more combo based (Despair Ray) and some are more box oriented. But once people get into the groove of playing Expanded a bit more, we'll start to see what the difinitive good Mewtwo & Mew-GX-centric decks will be.

Will it be meta? At the moment, yes.

Will it be in the format longer than a few months? I think there will be ONE good competitive build for Mewtwo & Mew-GX-centric decks that could do well at a Regionals level, and several others that fall into Tier-3.

As far as having counters to it, Garbodor shuts it down. Girafarig could make a comeback (although Girafarig is usually a card that control decks only use. Mewtwo & Mew-GX would have to pull a Zoroark-GX in order for regular aggro decks to consider using it). Karen hurts it too.

How many people will try and play Mewmew? Tons of them I believe.

You will see Garbodor rampant out there.

Completely agree, Zoroark-GX / Garbodor is probably the de facto Zoroark-GX deck to play if you're going to run Zoroark-GX. That said, it won't be run to directly counter Mewtwo & Mew-GX. It's just another deck that Zoroark-GX can do well against.

I think that a lot of people will try their hand at it when more places start holding more Expanded events. Especially when the promo Mewtwo & Mew-GX comes out and people have more accessability to it. From there, it can only become more refined and variants become discovered and potentially drop off the face of the planet.

You will also see things like Sigilyph-GX and Gengar&Mimikyu-TTGX.

Highly disagree. If you see either of those cards, you have definitely run into some rogue weird stuff. Last time Sigiliph-GX got played was in Drampa-GX / Garbodor a long while ago. It got top 8 at a regional I believe, but Drampa-GX / Garb has dropped off completely--it was a meta call deck anyway and I don't think it's coming back anytime soon.
The only deck I have seen Gengar & Mimikyu-GX run in was alongside Item lock Vileplume. Deck isn't that good.

Don't bother teching for these.

2 FB min for garbotoxin (still absent in my games), Mimikgar COULD T2 anyone anyway...So... Be prepared to tech. Yup, on it.

Btw. In a welder engine (uhg) an eeveelution is def possible (to get around vileplume), as are Celebsaur and/or other gx options, provided rainbow energy.

If you are worried about BUS Vilplume (which you would only see in Sceptile-GX / Vileplume / Alolan Exeggutor & Rowlet-GX decks...and even then it's a BIG "IF"), use Stealthy Hood. It allows you to attack under Garbotoxin as well

Thoughts on a tech bird trio gx? Kinda tanky, I'm gaga for shuffle away attacks, and 3 rainbow for 210 dmg isn't bad...

Having to do 3 manual attachments for 210 sounds kind of bad. Pikachu & Zekrom-GX, Turbo Dark, Zoroark-Gx, and Archies Blastoise would have you dead before that happens.

 

[Laurier_Ex]

People are always going to try the new spice when it's released. In the case of dedicated Mewtwo & Mew-GX decks, it's not a deck you can look at at go "X cards are absolute musts to make this good". I have seen SEVERAL Mewtwo & Mew-GX builds that vary on strategy. Some are more disruption based, some more combo based (Despair Ray) and some are more box oriented. But once people get into the groove of playing Expanded a bit more, we'll start to see what the difinitive good Mewtwo & Mew-GX-centric decks will be.

Will it be meta? At the moment, yes.

Will it be in the format longer than a few months? I think there will be ONE good competitive build for Mewtwo & Mew-GX-centric decks that could do well at a Regionals level, and several others that fall into Tier-3.

As far as having counters to it, Garbodor shuts it down. Girafarig could make a comeback (although Girafarig is usually a card that control decks only use. Mewtwo & Mew-GX would have to pull a Zoroark-GX in order for regular aggro decks to consider using it). Karen hurts it too.





Completely agree, Zoroark-GX / Garbodor is probably the de facto Zoroark-GX deck to play if you're going to run Zoroark-GX. That said, it won't be run to directly counter Mewtwo & Mew-GX. It's just another deck that Zoroark-GX can do well against.

I think that a lot of people will try their hand at it when more places start holding more Expanded events. Especially when the promo Mewtwo & Mew-GX comes out and people have more accessability to it. From there, it can only become more refined and variants become discovered and potentially drop off the face of the planet.




Highly disagree. If you see either of those cards, you have definitely run into some rogue weird stuff. Last time Sigiliph-GX got played was in Drampa-GX / Garbodor a long while ago. It got top 8 at a regional I believe, but Drampa-GX / Garb has dropped off completely--it was a meta call deck anyway and I don't think it's coming back anytime soon.
The only deck I have seen Gengar & Mimikyu-GX run in was alongside Item lock Vileplume. Deck isn't that good.

Don't bother teching for these.



If you are worried about BUS Vilplume (which you would only see in Sceptile-GX / Vileplume / Alolan Exeggutor & Rowlet-GX decks...and even then it's a BIG "IF"), use Stealthy Hood. It allows you to attack under Garbotoxin as well



Having to do 3 manual attachments for 210 sounds kind of bad. Pikachu & Zekrom-GX, Turbo Dark, Zoroark-Gx, and Archies Blastoise would have you dead before that happens.

Thank you for all the input,

 

[CharlieBirdy]

Lol this guy. "I just dark patch every game."

3 manual attachments is too much, you're right dude. I should just quit.

 

[Laurier_Ex]

Lol this guy. "I just dark patch every game."

3 manual attachments is too much, you're right dude. I should just quit.

I think the birds won't make the cut. There seems to be better options. Buzzmosa can do 190 dmg with 2 attachments. And if you want more damage for the same requirements, I think I would rather use Reshizard.

 

[CharlieBirdy]

Oh a spurious fantasy indeed. Tbh, noiverns gx won me a 5 prize turn against unown hand, so the prospect of higher damage spread was tempting