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No Energy Deck (Polwrath / Politoed)

Skyla won't rotate because it's in Boundaries Crossed. Don't worry! You can play it for a whole other year yet! :D
 
Hey there!

I am a very new player, and I am just trying to start making my own decks, so I cannot really offer much advice, at least not any that is reputable,

but I love this deck! When the new expansion arrives, I will run this most likely~

I would possibly do this: (I'm not sure, I just think it might work?)

- 1 Startling Megaphone
- 2 Roller Skates
- 1 N

and add a 2/1/2 Dusknoir line.

I really like the idea of being able to move damage around, especially since you could hit 100 damage with Poliwhirl if you do!

Your deck seems like a great idea, also avoids powering up Yvetal/Mewtwo. I can't wait to try it out!
 
No problem! Yeah Skyla is thankfully here to stay for a while so you're good there haha! I'll pm you about the prerelease so I don't steal your thread and change topics with my lengthy description :)
 
I've been interested in trying a deck like this myself, but I haven't built one to test yet. If you're concerned about the weakness to Genesect, though, have you considered maybe using Shadow Circle and some dark energies? Frozen City is a great idea for this deck IMO, but if Genesect is giving you problems, I think it might be something to consider.

I just had another thought, too. It might not be the best idea, but if you did decide to try using Shadow Circle and some dark energies to eliminate your grass weaknesses, you could even throw in a Darkrai EX to give your homies free retreat.
 
The main reason genesect can destroy my deck is because it can target down the politoed and kill it repeatedly, and alleviating the grass weakness wont really help me there. I dont think its worth losing my huge advantage that frozen city gives just to try and survive a couple more hits from genesect when he can just ohko with g booster anyway :p and I threw in a couple of silver mirror to try and delay genesect as much as possible a little while ago- I also have a lot of switches and I'm trying to keep completely energyless for fun! :p In a more serious deck I think you'd be right to at least include some energies.

edit: boyblunder dusknoir would work if you can fit him in! im not using him because i am already stretched for rare candies and I want to keep my megaphones for garbodor (since he destroys the deck), but if you can find space for dusknoir then i imagine the deck would become stronger.
 
The only thing you should be really aware against VirGen or Decks that pop Lysandre is to keep at least 2 politoed in your bench. If you only have one and it gets nuked, say byebye to the match, unless you can set another up quickly... Also, let me remind you that, running only Poli-lines, the max pokemon you can have in play is 5: 4 Polis and the Celebi.

While I like the whole idea of this deck a lot (as it is what I am planning to do with Furious Fists once it is out), I still think this could be really slow and might lack the speed to catch up if some key pokemons get knocked out.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't noticed that this was on the second page and people already said what I just did...
 
Luxiel said:
The only thing you should be really aware against VirGen or Decks that pop Lysandre is to keep at least 2 politoed in your bench. If you only have one and it gets nuked, say byebye to the match, unless you can set another up quickly... Also, let me remind you that, running only Poli-lines, the max pokemon you can have in play is 5: 4 Polis and the Celebi.

While I like the whole idea of this deck a lot (as it is what I am planning to do with Furious Fists once it is out), I still think this could be really slow and might lack the speed to catch up if some key pokemons get knocked out.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't noticed that this was on the second page and people already said what I just did...
Click to expand...

That's a good point about his maximum pokemon in play being 5. But if Poli gets dragged in and killed he will lose a turn or two and a prize card but I think with the 2 sacred ash and his draw power he should be able to recover from that within 2 turns. Which isn't so scary with max potion potentially healing his active too.
 
Ocho said:
That's a good point about his maximum pokemon in play being 5. But if Poli gets dragged in and killed he will lose a turn or two and a prize card but I think with the 2 sacred ash and his draw power he should be able to recover from that within 2 turns. Which isn't so scary with max potion potentially healing his active too.
Click to expand...

While I see how this can work, it will depend a lot on the big IF he still has cards to get draw power from. I don't find it good to depend on luck as most decks in the meta rely on little to no luck at all.

The way I see it, this is a speed deck, maybe even faster than Blastoise based ones (I myself run a Ballistoise). Althouth this Poli deck hits kinda low, it begins to hit faster than the average, it is meant to win in fewer turns.

There is a Dragonite EX based deck in the Deck garage being discussed recently and it has the same problem: If the match drags on, if your opponent manages to stall or if you have a very bad luck, there is very low chance you can manage to catch up and turn the game around.

Another problem I can see and I find hard to get around is the pure math of it. See, say we are running this poli deck. we want to have our bench full of basics to set this up.

So we run 4-2-3 Politoed line with another 3 Poliwraths and 4 Rare Candies. Lets say we get lucky and have 4 poliwags in our bench and that Celebi. This is the BEST scenario but chances are 1 or 2 poliwags might end up in the prizes. Celebi itself might be there too.

In our best scenario, we rare candy one of those wags and make it a toed, then we promoted the active wag to whirl, this can be done on turn 2 (although I am not really sure how commonly this will happen). We proceed to hit with whirl. Lets say we manage to KO an EX after a few turns, before our opponent manage to get ready.

Then our opponent get ready, pulls Toed up front and OHKO it, which is not something hard to do, specially for VirGen. Then we only have another 2 toeds, 1 whirl, 3 candies available IF some of them aren't on the prizes. We might get that toed and wag back to the deck with Sacred Ash, but we will need to burn through what is left of our deck to get them, while we are short on toed and still missing a wag for more whirls/wraths, which won't be hitting until we get another toed benched.

You see, most of the time we would be focusing on getting a toed running. If our toed gets sniped, the time and resources needed to get another one up might be too much, specially if we already burned our benched wags into whirls or wraths so they don't get killed by things like Xerneas' Breakthrough effect.

Finally, having only 5 pokemons available at anytime means that, if you don't get to reload your bench fast enough, more often than not, your opponent won't even need to get 6 prizes to win. The best scenario points to having 5, most times, it will be something like 2 or 3.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVED this Politoed when I first saw a japanese translation of Rising Fist and I intend to run a deck with it, but still I am not sure how to overcome these problems.
 
This deck just wont be beating Virizion Genesect. There's very little point me trying to work around that, because it has like 5 different things that allows it to easy beat it. Firstly it has a super effective attack vs both politoed and poliwrath. Secondly it has the ability to repeatedly pull out politoeds and kill them. Thirdly it can use G-Booster to ohko through any effects I might want to put on my pokemon. Fourthly, Virizion and Genesect both resist water. And lastly, Genesect doesn't care about frozen city at all. I don't want to focus on beating this deck because it is the worst matchup by far and there's no point compromising the deck to turn a 10/90 matchup into 30/70. I appreciate all feedback but this is still a fun deck and I'm intentionally giving myself the restriction of not using energy cards, which will ultimately limit it and hurt its competitive viability. I agree that it is flawed. Also other decks which want to lysandre out the politoed are going to give me a rough time, but with frozen city in play the idea is that any time I'm behind in momentum, I'm not falling too far behind because they are still losing hp through whatever they are doing. They should need 3 or more energy attachments to ohko my politoed, which is 60 damage which means I only need to get another politoed back into play to deal 120 with poliwhirl's energyless attack for a return ko to an EX with a muscle band, which would be a worthwhile trade.
I think this deck can get back on its feet fairly decently as long as I am smart about how I am evolving my pokemon, for instance not filling my deck with poliwraths and only one politoed because ideally I want to be able to get a politoed back into play immediately after one gets knocked out, which probably means leaving a poliwag on the bench or making sure I have 2 politoeds at once as you said.

But yea, I think its the best solution to not attempt to beat virizion/genesect because it just isnt happening, unless you want to run a victini ex with victory star, but personally I'd rather just not waste cards on the matchup. I appreciate the feedback but there are several problems with the deck which I think are basically unsolvable if you want to keep the restriction of no energy.


Edit: I also don't necessarily think that having the weakness of struggling to pick up after falling behind is a bad enough trait to completely write off a deck, since this happens a lot to Aromatisse decks in many ways- probably worse than with this one as they have a habit of either spreading their energy across the whole board and then being unable to pull enough energy out of the rest of the deck when aromatisse gets lysandred and killed, or attaching all their energy to their main attacker and losing it all on a revenge ohko. Not saying that this deck is as strong as aromatisse or anything but yea. Hopefully we can see how workable these issues are after a bit of playtesting :)
 
Sorry, for a few moments I forgot that this was a Fun build.

It seems really fun actually. And please, I might have worded it the wrong way, but I am not writting this deck off. I love its idea, I am just struggling and arguing how to make it more viable.

Again, I am sorry for how I treated this. Building my Ballistoise, I was all about covering every weakness so desperately (and still, Frozen City kicks my butt so hard) that I forgot how it is to build a walk-in-the-park-and-have-fun deck... (which reminds me I still have a Round deck to build out of fun, might as well do it :))

And there is no shame on giving up on beating VirGen, it is a PIA to almost any deck nowadays.
 
So just a quick theoratically question (is that how you spell it?) What happens if you go first against a seismtoad ex garbodor deck? You have no way to recover from a turn 1 lock
 
zapper1998 said:
So just a quick theoratically question (is that how you spell it?) What happens if you go first against a seismtoad ex garbodor deck? You have no way to recover from a turn 1 lock
Click to expand...

If someone has to win that badly then I would be fine with getting donked and moving on to the next match :p
 
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