OracleLock: Bronzong/Vileplume/Scizor

[Emopanda133]

I made this deck a few days ago, and I've been playing it on PlayTCG for a bit, I've been winning matches, but I still think it could be improved.

Pokemon: 19
3-2-3 Vileplume UD
3-3 Bronzong ND (Triumphant 58 Bronzor)
2 Scyther UD 36
2 Scizor UD 84
1 Skarmory UD 21

T/S/S: 27
4 N NV 101
4 Professor Oak's New Theory HGSS 101
4 Professor Juniper BW 101
3 Professor Elm's Training Method HGSS 100
3 Pokemon Collector HGSS 97
3 Twins TR 89
1 Flower Shop Lady UD 74
3 Rare Candy UL 82
2 Pokemon Communication BW 99

Energy: 14
4 Double Colorless Energy
4 Metal Energy (Special)
6 Metal Energy

The strategy is simple, start with Skarmory, or Bronzor (Iron Defense) get trainer lock on T2, Let your opponents hand stack up, then Oracle Inflict 1-2HKO them. Scizor Prime is my Mewtwo Counter/Staller/Secondary Attacker, One of the things I'm surprised about is that I have no draw power at all, (And I don't mean getting basic Pokemon, so don't suggest another Collector.-_-), I thought about switching Skarmory for Cleffa, but I like Skarmory's guaranteed stalling ability (Cleffa's flippy, I mean, so is Bronzor, but he also has more health.) (You'd be surprised, Skarmory will last forever, even if you get T4-5 Plume, and he allows me to get everyone set up quicker.)

Problems:
Like I said, surprising lack of draw power.

 

[Magnezone_Elf]

Flower Shop Lady is not good.
-1 FSL
-1 or 2 PETM

+2 or 3 Sages or Cheren

 

[Jirachi]

I think that scizor should be the main attacker because it is better against most decks and bronzong's attack is not all that great. Maybe
-1-1 bronzong (really only 2-2 is needed)
-3 PETM (really not that useful)
-2 juniper (I think 2 is enough in a deck like this)
-0-1-1 Vileplume (I find 3-1-2 usually more helpful)

+2 sage's (get out vileplume)
+1 twins (maybe, get out stuff)
+1 mewtwo EX (if the opponent's mew two EX doesn't have any special energy then scizor will just benefit from it. And it is useful)
+1 cobalion (good back up attacker and better than bronzong's attack)
+1 collector (I think a max collector is a lot more consistent IMO)
3 extra spaces for anything I missed.

 

[Emopanda133]

I think that scizor should be the main attacker because it is better against most decks and bronzong's attack is not all that great. Maybe
-1-1 bronzong (really only 2-2 is needed)
-3 PETM (really not that useful)
-2 juniper (I think 2 is enough in a deck like this)
-0-1-1 Vileplume (I find 3-1-2 usually more helpful)

+2 sage's (get out vileplume)
+1 twins (maybe, get out stuff)
+1 mewtwo EX (if the opponent's mew two EX doesn't have any special energy then scizor will just benefit from it. And it is useful)
+1 cobalion (good back up attacker and better than bronzong's attack)
+1 collector (I think a max collector is a lot more consistent IMO)
3 extra spaces for anything I missed.

First off, let me remind you that I said no more collectors. I hate sage's, I have enough problems with discard. I will never run Mewtwo, for personal reasons (Mewtwo sucks), the deck is called OracleLock, and bronzong is actually very effective as an attacker. I thought about Cobalion, but not sure what to take out.

 

[DNA]

All right, I'm not going to suggest specific numbers on what to add/remove, but I'll say a few things.

First off, you may not want to run N in this deck. The goal is to fill up your opponent's hand with useless cards if you're attacking with Bronzong, and N will only give them at most 6, with less as time goes on. It could work, though - just be wary of it.

If you want a Skarmory start, I'd put more than 1. 3 sounds like a good number, because that way you can park your Bronzors or whatever on the bench as you get set up.

Draw power? You've got Juniper. But if you don't want to dump your hand, you can use Cheren - or better yet, Cheerleader's Cheer; that would just power up Bronzong if they choose to draw, and there's very little cost to you.

3-1-2 Vileplume or 2-2-2 Vileplume is the best idea. Anything else would either be too much or too little, given how we live in a Catcher format.

You may want a 2nd Flower Shop Lady, just in case. And yeah, you only need 3 Collectors. Very few decks run 4, since the 4th one is often unnecessary - and since you aren't using Junk Arm, don't bother.

Ultimately it'll come down to which you want attacking more often - run 3-3 of your main, and 2-2 of your sub. I'd recommend Scizor being the main, because since this format is very heavy into Special Energy right now (DCE, Prism, Rescue, Rainbow), Scizor will just laugh at most anything and OHKO or 2HKO with Metal Scissors. That means 3-3 Scizor and 2-2 Bronzong. (Since you're locking your opponent out of trainers anyway, you don't need to worry much about healing; the only thing that heals is Pokemon Center or the odd Bellossom, so you don't need to emphasize too much on Heal Block.)

As for Cobalion? You're running Scizor right now, and since they both do the same amount of damage, I wouldn't bother. However, if you can find room for it, go ahead.

 

[Emopanda133]

All right, I'm not going to suggest specific numbers on what to add/remove, but I'll say a few things.

First off, you may not want to run N in this deck. The goal is to fill up your opponent's hand with useless cards if you're attacking with Bronzong, and N will only give them at most 6, with less as time goes on. It could work, though - just be wary of it.

If you want a Skarmory start, I'd put more than 1. 3 sounds like a good number, because that way you can park your Bronzors or whatever on the bench as you get set up.

Draw power? You've got Juniper. But if you don't want to dump your hand, you can use Cheren - or better yet, Cheerleader's Cheer; that would just power up Bronzong if they choose to draw, and there's very little cost to you.

3-1-2 Vileplume or 2-2-2 Vileplume is the best idea. Anything else would either be too much or too little, given how we live in a Catcher format.

You may want a 2nd Flower Shop Lady, just in case. And yeah, you only need 3 Collectors. Very few decks run 4, since the 4th one is often unnecessary - and since you aren't using Junk Arm, don't bother.

Ultimately it'll come down to which you want attacking more often - run 3-3 of your main, and 2-2 of your sub. I'd recommend Scizor being the main, because since this format is very heavy into Special Energy right now (DCE, Prism, Rescue, Rainbow), Scizor will just laugh at most anything and OHKO or 2HKO with Metal Scissors. That means 3-3 Scizor and 2-2 Bronzong. (Since you're locking your opponent out of trainers anyway, you don't need to worry much about healing; the only thing that heals is Pokemon Center or the odd Bellossom, so you don't need to emphasize too much on Heal Block.)

As for Cobalion? You're running Scizor right now, and since they both do the same amount of damage, I wouldn't bother. However, if you can find room for it, go ahead.

The reason I run N is for disruption, or to put cards in there hands if they don't have much.

I have a lot of draw cards, my problem is getting them when I need then.

As for Slarmory plume and Cobalion, I'll try some things to figure what works.

 

[Archeops]

You could take out two PETM as its not a very good card in this format, but still leave one as it can be helpful sometimes.
I wold suggest adding two poke gear 3.0 or cut that last elm and add one more. Poke gear helps allot if your having trouble getting the supporters you need when they're needed.

 

[JimboJumbo]

PokeGear + Trainer lock... Hmm...

Interesting idea for sure. Has some potential for a fun deck. Couple of things to think about though.

For clarification, Mewtwo does not suck and chances are you're saying it does because you don't have access to one. It's a great card that's why it's in just about every deck. Saying it sucks is ignorant. (Not a personal attack but a statement) That being said, I would suggest using it over Scizor because it can do more than just wall Mewtwo. For one, Scizor isn't a very strong attacker, unless you feel like wasting a lot of energy on it to get it there (in which case would defeat the purpose of using Bronzong as an attacker anyway). His ability is not bad but not all decks that use Mewtwo power him up via DCE. For those match ups, your Scizor is toast anyway.

N is pretty good in here, I can see you using it, but perhaps not 4, especially with 4 Juniper and 4 Oak. 2 Seems like a better play.

Kind of unsure of Skarmory's purpose. If it was to load up Scizor, I think you should opt out for another starter. Cleffa isn't a bad choice because bad hands happen.

3 Elm with as much draw support as you have is quite a lot. You'll end up drawing into what you need before you play Elms. 1 is probably alright though.

With those edits, lots of space for techs against things that give this deck trouble.

 

[Magnezone_Elf]

For one, Scizor isn't a very strong attacker, unless you feel like wasting a lot of energy on it to get it there (in which case would defeat the purpose of using Bronzong as an attacker anyway). His ability is not bad but not all decks that use Mewtwo power him up via DCE. For those match ups, your Scizor is toast anyway.

Scizor is a great attacker and powering him up isn't "Wasting" energy! And every deck i've seen uses DCE to power up Mewtwo, but you may have seen different.

 

[JimboJumbo]

I'm not saying DCE is a bad option, but it is not the only option to respond to Mewtwo knocking out a pokemon. In a pinch, Eelectrik decks can play a Mewtwo and use Dynamotor twice to power it up in one turn. Attach an energy from your hand and you have 5 energy between the two pokemon. That is a dead Mewtwo.

Celebi/Tornadus decks can use Celebi's ability to attach a grass to Mewtwo. Combined with multiple Celebis/Switch(SkyArrow Bridge) and even Shaymin, the energy in play can be manipulated for the revenge kill.

Scizor's damage is only dependant on the amount of Metal Energies attached to himself. Scizor is a stage 1 with a subpar ability (currently, only future will determine it's ability's potential) where as Mewtwo is a bulkier, basic pokemon that yields higher potential damage for less resources. If Scizor gets knocked out, it is very unlikely you will be able to set up another Scizor dealing that kind of damage. Metal types do not have energy acceleration to benefit from so even if you can use recovery methods to get the energies out of the discard, they won't be attached to Scizor fast enough for it to matter.

 

[Emopanda133]

I'm not saying DCE is a bad option, but it is not the only option to respond to Mewtwo knocking out a pokemon. In a pinch, Eelectrik decks can play a Mewtwo and use Dynamotor twice to power it up in one turn. Attach an energy from your hand and you have 5 energy between the two pokemon. That is a dead Mewtwo.

Celebi/Tornadus decks can use Celebi's ability to attach a grass to Mewtwo. Combined with multiple Celebis/Switch(SkyArrow Bridge) and even Shaymin, the energy in play can be manipulated for the revenge kill.

Scizor's damage is only dependant on the amount of Metal Energies attached to himself. Scizor is a stage 1 with a subpar ability (currently, only future will determine it's ability's potential) where as Mewtwo is a bulkier, basic pokemon that yields higher potential damage for less resources. If Scizor gets knocked out, it is very unlikely you will be able to set up another Scizor dealing that kind of damage. Metal types do not have energy acceleration to benefit from so even if you can use recovery methods to get the energies out of the discard, they won't be attached to Scizor fast enough for it to matter.

You guys do know he's my secondary attacker right? Yes he's my Mewtwo counter, because for the amount energies to kill me before I kill you, is pretty good, plus my Bronzong is great against Mewtwo, I've played CMT decks and won simply off resistance and special metal energy. If you play this deck, it's great when set up because without catchers, everything can get set up quick and easy. I started this thread to better draw support, and for your information, I hate Mewtwo because everyone puts massive hype into him and every Mewtwo I've ever played against, it barely gets one prize, maybe, and I take it down. I'm not worried about him, my deck can take hits from him and dish it right back.

 

[Jirachi]

Really? For me mew twos actually helped me a lot even if they are not playing a mew two in their decks but I guess its just the deck I play. What do you mean he's your secondary attacker? Mewtwo isn't in your list...

 

[Emopanda133]

Really? For me mew twos actually helped me a lot even if they are not playing a mew two in their decks but I guess its just the deck I play. What do you mean he's your secondary attacker? Mewtwo isn't in your list...

I was talking about Scizor, I refuse to run Mewtwo.

 

[Magnezone_Elf]

Still, bronzong isn't nearly as good an attacker as Scizor or Cobalion, as it relies on your opponent drawing into lots of unusable crap, and bronzong wontvlast very long, with its frail 110 HP.

 

[JimboJumbo]

You guys do know he's my secondary attacker right? Yes he's my Mewtwo counter, because for the amount energies to kill me before I kill you, is pretty good, plus my Bronzong is great against Mewtwo, I've played CMT decks and won simply off resistance and special metal energy. If you play this deck, it's great when set up because without catchers, everything can get set up quick and easy. I started this thread to better draw support, and for your information, I hate Mewtwo because everyone puts massive hype into him and every Mewtwo I've ever played against, it barely gets one prize, maybe, and I take it down. I'm not worried about him, my deck can take hits from him and dish it right back.

Just as a note, just because you beat a CMT build does not mean that the deck counters it, nor does it mean that your deck is good against it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's a bad deck but what I am saying is that your opponent skill level is not equal.

Bronzong is not amazing against Mewtwo. It can damage Mewtwo, sure, but you need 3 energies to attack it. Mewtwo with it's required 2 to attack has 5 between you. With the ability to accel energies in the decks he is commonly in, an extra two energies ontop of a DCE is not uncommon.

So, that's (4 * 20) + (3 * 20) = 140 - 20 (resistance) = 120 Damage and a dead Bronzong. Assuming no special metals. (But in either case you'd need two special metals minimum to live a hit from it anyway).

A player can play around the Bronzong attack and use their shuffle draw, be it N or Oak to drop their hand down so your Bronzong will get 2-3 hit KOs on Mewtwo, easily enough time for it to kill the Bronzong first, even if it only hits for 60 a turn after damage calculations.

As for the hype about Mewtwo, you can't further hype a card that has been proven to be good. It is in every deck for a reason. It's strong, it counters itself/high energy consuming pokemon and has great survivability. 170 HP is not easy to achieve in a OHKO without using your own Mewtwo. Hate on it all you want, but it's not a 60 dollar card because it's 'over hyped'.

Mewtwo aside, the deck falls victim in the hands of every other deck. Magnezone will give you troubles, resistance and high damage output, CMT (when played properly) gives you troubles because of early disruption and speed. Reshiram decks for weakness, etc. You should include a back up attacker that handles other things in the meta and not strange obscure decks, what's the point in that.

I also fail to see how this deck sets up quickly, when you have been locked out of trainers and you have no energy accel for metal energies. Once your primary attacker goes down you're out of energies and the game immediately becomes a gigantic uphill battle, not in your favor. Without that ability to recover, once they first take the first prize, the game is over.