Playing Around Pyroar

thood

Konohagakure Shinobi
Member
First things first, I'm the realest I'm not sure if someone has made a thread similar to this one, but if there is please don't merge them because I feel this subject needs to be re-touched upon.

Anyways, Pyroar. The card we all know and hate. This card is responsible for destroying 99.9% of all my deck ideas and is a huge thorn in my side. The way this TCG is designed makes Pyroar an insanely broken card. For the last 2-3 years, Pokemon has been churning out over-powered basics like EXs or other beefy basic attackers. These cards make up almost the entire Meta. Pyroar simply comes in and puts an end to that. What made Safeguard Pokemon reasonable to play against was the fact you could just play a non-EX basic to KO it without losing hardly any consistency. Pyroar not only defies the mighty EXs but also all other basics as well, forcing us to either play Stage 1's or Stage 2's, both of which are very under-powered, or rely on shutting off Pyroar's ability. The problem with these two "solutions" is that they actually create problems that outweigh the benefits. It makes decks undesirably clunky and worsen match-ups with other Meta decks. This present players the choice, tech for Pyroar and lose consistency and worsen other match-ups, or keep the decks as they are, but accept a guaranteed auto-loss to a deck. So this thread is dedicated to techs you have all thought of to deal with Pyroar. Simply state what card it is (name and set) and explain which deck is performs best in and why.

I'll start by stating a couple:

Raichu XY - This card fits into nearly any deck that can runs DCE and can afford 4 spots. Raichu boasts free retreat, and can hit for 100 with a full bench, meaning it snags an OHKO on Yveltal EX, actually improving a separate match-up. What's holding this card back? Beside the fact that it is extremely frail, 100 damage isn't enough to OHKO Pyroar, meaning you must also use Muscle Band or Hypnotoxic Laser.

Beartic FF - Another DCE attacker. This guy boasts more HP than Raichu, sitting at a beefy 130. His attack scores an OHKO on Pyroar, Landorus EX, and Donphan. What could possible hold such a card back, you ask? This card actually provides little help in any other match-up, because it's attack relies on your opponent's active Pokemon's retreat cost, a variable completely out of your control, unlike Raichu's attack, which you can manipulate for consistent damage.

Garbodor DRX/LTR - This card takes a different route to stop Pyroar. By attaching a tool you activate its ability Garbotoxin, which nullifies all other abilities, both yours and your opponents. This card isn't as splash-able as the other two, not only because it requires a dedicate space of around 6-7 card spots, but also because some decks that rely on their abilities cannot afford to use Garbodor to shut down Pyroar. Not only this, but Garbodor functions solely as a bench-sitter; it offers no offensive presence, and God forbid if that thing gets brought to the active, that retreat cost almost guarantees it's staying there till it dies. Not to mention Startling Megaphone, a standard card in most decks, turns Garbodor off.

Target Whistle PHF - This is probably the most interesting tech I've seen. This card functions best in Hyper-offensive decks that don't want to run anymore Pokemon. The trick to using this card is to pick off a Litleo early game, or manage to knock-out an opposing players EX Pokemon. Target Whistle it onto the bench and either Catcher or Lysandre it out for another kill. This can be done up to 5 times by using Dowsing Machine, and in some decks, this card drastically increases the match-up. Team Plasma decks can utilize this card very well since they tend to be able to set up rather fast and can hit hard enough to score easy OHKO's, not to mention, Lugia EX makes picking off Litleo's much more meaningful, and can actually put the Pyroar player at a disadvantage if it is not played against correctly.

Alright, that's all I've got for now. Let's see what you all can come up with!

Thood
 
Mega Kangaskhan is a good counter in decks that can instantly power up an attacker in some form, like Bronzong, Aromatisse, or Blastoise. 3 Colorless and a Muscle Band can OHKO Pyroar and with 230 HP, it's going to take more than a couple Scorching Fangs to get rid of it. Kangaskhan can even stay in play for the rest of the game if you can stream Max Potions on it and flip a few heads.
 
Carpey said:
Mega Kangaskhan is a good counter in decks that can instantly power up an attacker in some form, like Bronzong, Aromatisse, or Blastoise. 3 Colorless and a Muscle Band can OHKO Pyroar and with 230 HP, it's going to take more than a couple Scorching Fangs to get rid of it. Kangaskhan can even stay in play for the rest of the game if you can stream Max Potions on it and flip a few heads.

M-Kangaskhan is a great Pokemon is you can run afford to run it. The space and time to set up is somewhat annoying, since you can't actually start attacking with it until at least turn 3, and you should be running a 2-2 along with Max potions or some form of recovery to take the biggest advantage of it. I feel like M-Manectric outclasses it with it's damage output and utility, along with the fact it can swing the Yveltal EX match-up, all for less energy.
 
I currently run 4 "tournament- worthy" decks at the moment: Charizard-Pyroar, Seismitoad-Garbodor, TDE, and Yveltal-Garbodor. Needless to say, Pyroar is not an issue for me when I run either of my Garbodor decks. That is also true for my 'Zard-Pyroar deck. In my Team Plasma deck, I added a small Eeveelution line (hence the "E" in the deck name) specifically to counter Donphan, Landorus, and/or Pyroar threats and that Poké is Vaporeon (PF).

Other excellent Pyroar counters, IMO, include Donphan and the new PhF is M Manectric EX.

IMO, in building a deck (especially for future tournaments), one must be prepared to encounter such current decks as:


  • Dialga EX
    FairyBox
    Donphan
    Gengar-Trees/Walls/Dusknoir
    Manectric EX
    Night March
    Pyroar
    Seismitoad EX
    Team Plasma
    VirGen
    Yveltal-Garbor
Although Pyroar-based decks may not represent a significant percentage of the total tournament deck population, some players may still run even a small tech line. So, players need to respect that possibility you may encounter it at some point during the tournament and have options (hopefully) to deal with it.

Given the above deck list, I'm less concerned about Pyroar vs. some of the others...
 
I honestly don't think Pyroar is a big deal.
Right now, Pyroar surprisingly is still in the hype phase. Since Dark Explorers, Pokemon has pretty much been telling its audience (which changed to 6+) that certain pokemon should be put together. Like Virizion and Genesect, Thundurus, Deoxys, and Kyurem, Darkrai and Mewtwo EX, etc.
Yet every time Pokemon comes out with some new force that dominates the format, they will find a way to screw it up within the next few sets.
Eg. Tool drop wrecked TDK after the release of silver mirror, VirGen wasn't as good after the release of Pyroar, and Yveltal isn't as good without the rerelease of dark patch and of dedenne and raichu.
Lucario/machamp is still OK, and good in fighting, but do people use him anymore? Not really; he has his phase and now its over. Will Gengar stay popular? Maybe, or maybe not. It seems that most typical archetypes get less popular after each set. Out of all of the archetypes, Pyroar is the cheapest, but still does good in the format. Which means many Masters and Seniors with a tight budget could build this deck with a snap; I don't have the deck built but I'm 100% sure that I have all of the cards for it. Because he can still pose a threat and is relatively cheap, people will still use him. But with the recent release of Beartic and upcoming water/fire set, I'm going to assume that the Pyroar population will decrease.

There technically is only one solution at the moment to pyroar, and that is Latias EX. Pyroar can't attack it, yet it can attack Pyroar back. You should also mention M Manectric EX and HTL/Virbank combo in the thread.
I don't think expecting to KO 6 litleo's is the way to win the game. If they see you using a lot of items to bring up Litleo's, they'll just bring up Seismitoad EX. I wouldn't even mention target whistle in the opening list. And even with 4 Lysandres, 4 catchers, 4 VS seeker and 1 Dowsing machine, I doubt you'd be able to win the game with target whistle.
If you are that scared of Pyroar, play a deck that beats pyroar. Don't try to change a deck to only beat pyroar, like making VirGen with Plasma Frigates and Beartics, but try to make a deck that can deal with Pyroar. I'd run either Yveltal/Garb or Donphan if you're that concerned.
 
I really like the target whistle idea. It seems like it would be really good with Lugia EX for more 2 attack wins (and you won't get screwed by N).

IMO, there are two practical ways to get by Pyroar; Lysandre around it (which gets more power with VS Seeker) or use laserbank. Both options are extremely powerful and are typically used in decks because they are so broken to begin with. Other options include Toxicroak EX (poison damage gets around Pyroar), Shred attackers (Latias/Rayquaza/Cobalion), or megas (As long as you have at least one good mega and one good non EX attacker, you have a lot of bases covered).

I also gotta defend Beartic because of how good it is against Donphan. Even if Pyroar isn't the most popular, Donphan is and can be a huge pain against EX heavy decks. Beefy HP and cheap colorless attack makes it a solid option for a lot of decks (I'm looking at you VirGen and Flareon).
 
pokedan24 said:
I also gotta defend Beartic because of how good it is against Donphan. Even if Pyroar isn't the most popular, Donphan is and can be a huge pain against EX heavy decks. Beefy HP and cheap colorless attack makes it a solid option for a lot of decks (I'm looking at you VirGen and Flareon).
I completely forgot about this. Beartic does in fact help in the Donphan match-up. That improves his overall usefulness; I'll need to edit my OP


Elbow said:
I honestly don't think Pyroar is a big deal.
Right now, Pyroar surprisingly is still in the hype phase. Since Dark Explorers, Pokemon has pretty much been telling its audience (which changed to 6+) that certain pokemon should be put together. Like Virizion and Genesect, Thundurus, Deoxys, and Kyurem, Darkrai and Mewtwo EX, etc.
Yet every time Pokemon comes out with some new force that dominates the format, they will find a way to screw it up within the next few sets.
Eg. Tool drop wrecked TDK after the release of silver mirror, VirGen wasn't as good after the release of Pyroar, and Yveltal isn't as good without the rerelease of dark patch and of dedenne and raichu.
Lucario/machamp is still OK, and good in fighting, but do people use him anymore? Not really; he has his phase and now its over. Will Gengar stay popular? Maybe, or maybe not. It seems that most typical archetypes get less popular after each set. Out of all of the archetypes, Pyroar is the cheapest, but still does good in the format. Which means many Masters and Seniors with a tight budget could build this deck with a snap; I don't have the deck built but I'm 100% sure that I have all of the cards for it. Because he can still pose a threat and is relatively cheap, people will still use him. But with the recent release of Beartic and upcoming water/fire set, I'm going to assume that the Pyroar population will decrease.

There technically is only one solution at the moment to pyroar, and that is Latias EX. Pyroar can't attack it, yet it can attack Pyroar back. You should also mention M Manectric EX and HTL/Virbank combo in the thread.
I don't think expecting to KO 6 litleo's is the way to win the game. If they see you using a lot of items to bring up Litleo's, they'll just bring up Seismitoad EX. I wouldn't even mention target whistle in the opening list. And even with 4 Lysandres, 4 catchers, 4 VS seeker and 1 Dowsing machine, I doubt you'd be able to win the game with target whistle.
If you are that scared of Pyroar, play a deck that beats pyroar. Don't try to change a deck to only beat pyroar, like making VirGen with Plasma Frigates and Beartics, but try to make a deck that can deal with Pyroar. I'd run either Yveltal/Garb or Donphan if you're that concerned.

I agree with you in the sense that Pyroar is hardly played at all. However, I don't really like the idea of auto-losing to a deck without being able to do anything. You bring up Latias EX, which is a very interesting card. It's energy requirements are a little weird, and it only OHKO's Pyroar if you can get a muscle band and laser bank. With all those requirements, Raichu might be a better tech for most decks since its so splash-able and it is easier to OHKO Pyroar with.
 
Honestly, what you put in depends on your local meta. If there's pyroar and yveltal, use raichu, if there's pyroar and fighting use beartic.
 
I understand wanting to at least have an answer to Pyroar (and things like it). There is nothing more demoralizing than losing that way.
 
Is it really OP? If it was OP, wouldn't there be top tier decks that had Pyroar in it?

Is it so broken to force people to either use evolutions, run a small line of Beartic or something similar, use a "Shred" pokemon, Latias EX, or G-Booster?

I play a couple of decks with Pyroar and they are not more succesful than other decks I have. Probably less. And when I come up against a Pyroar deck I am less concerned than when I come up against Donphan or a deck with a lot of Sesimatoad.
 
I think I can play against pyroar just fine. I run an yveltal/garbodor deck and deck tested it last night and won. My only worries is Sesmitoad. I need my items yo!
 
DjKniteX said:
I think I can play against pyroar just fine. I run an yveltal/garbodor deck and deck tested it last night and won. My only worries is Sesmitoad. I need my items yo!

Just because you beat Pyroar once does not mean you can do it every time. Garbodor is far from a unbreakable counter for Pyroar. Most Pyroar decks can easily kill it.
 
I have been using a Seismitoad EX/Garbodor a lot and it does well against Pyroar. LaserBank, Garbodor. They can easily kill Garbodor. However, it still isn't that hard of a match up with LaserBanks, and most importantly, item lock. Item lock slows the amount of Pyroar they get into play, and with that, they can only play supporters to get the Pyroars out. They would still have to use one of their turns to Lysandre out one of my Garbodors, allowing me to rack up more damage with LaserBank.

I don't think Pyroar will see the amount of play it did before because now there is Mega Manectric EX around.
 
I honestly do not feel Pyroar is much of a threat as he was before. As many have stated, Toad slows down the Pyroar progression making it rather difficult for the op to get them into play, while still allowing you time to set up a garb should that be your choice. The other thing is Litleo only has 60/70 HP, if you play bench hitters this makes dealing with the base form easy, or atleast preparing to set up KO on the Pyroar simpler.

If anything I feel this card may see more play in expanded then standard as expanded allows for much more options as to what the OP maybe laying to protect his or her pyroar as well as potential as to what you may lack to deal with the pyroar.
 
Gengar master said:
I have been using a Seismitoad EX/Garbodor a lot and it does well against Pyroar. LaserBank, Garbodor. They can easily kill Garbodor. However, it still isn't that hard of a match up with LaserBanks, and most importantly, item lock. Item lock slows the amount of Pyroar they get into play, and with that, they can only play supporters to get the Pyroars out. They would still have to use one of their turns to Lysandre out one of my Garbodors, allowing me to rack up more damage with LaserBank.

I don't think Pyroar will see the amount of play it did before because now there is Mega Manectric EX around.

Seismitoad is a good counter to Pyroar. Pyroar needs a lot of items early game to set up, and if you can get T1 or T2 Quacking punches off, you can really slow down Pyroar. But you aren't damaging them outside of Hypnotoxic laser, unless you also run Garbodor. I also agree with the fact that Pyroar might not be played often, but you still need to tech for it. In a tournament, if no one techs for a Pyroar deck but there happens to be someone playing Pyroar, the Pyroar player almost gets an auto-win for the whole Tourney.
 
thood said:
Gengar master said:
I have been using a Seismitoad EX/Garbodor a lot and it does well against Pyroar. LaserBank, Garbodor. They can easily kill Garbodor. However, it still isn't that hard of a match up with LaserBanks, and most importantly, item lock. Item lock slows the amount of Pyroar they get into play, and with that, they can only play supporters to get the Pyroars out. They would still have to use one of their turns to Lysandre out one of my Garbodors, allowing me to rack up more damage with LaserBank.

I don't think Pyroar will see the amount of play it did before because now there is Mega Manectric EX around.

Seismitoad is a good counter to Pyroar. Pyroar needs a lot of items early game to set up, and if you can get T1 or T2 Quacking punches off, you can really slow down Pyroar. But you aren't damaging them outside of Hypnotoxic laser, unless you also run Garbodor. I also agree with the fact that Pyroar might not be played often, but you still need to tech for it. In a tournament, if no one techs for a Pyroar deck but there happens to be someone playing Pyroar, the Pyroar player almost gets an auto-win for the whole Tourney.

Exactly. That's why it works so well against Pyroar. Garbodor isn't only there for Pyroar. It is there for VirGen and other Abilities.
 
Gengar master said:
thood said:
Seismitoad is a good counter to Pyroar. Pyroar needs a lot of items early game to set up, and if you can get T1 or T2 Quacking punches off, you can really slow down Pyroar. But you aren't damaging them outside of Hypnotoxic laser, unless you also run Garbodor. I also agree with the fact that Pyroar might not be played often, but you still need to tech for it. In a tournament, if no one techs for a Pyroar deck but there happens to be someone playing Pyroar, the Pyroar player almost gets an auto-win for the whole Tourney.

Exactly. That's why it works so well against Pyroar. Garbodor isn't only there for Pyroar. It is there for VirGen and other Abilities.

Garbodor is a good card, but it only works in some decks. Decks like Plasma cannot run Garbodor, and other decks might not have the space to tech it in. Not only this, but it requires a lot of set up, and it can't actually start shutting down Pyroar until your second turn at the earliest. This is also coupled with the fact that they can simply Lysandre Garbodor to the active and kill it, or use Startling Megaphone and remove your float stone along with all your other tools like muscle band, silver bangle, etc. All in all, Garbodor is a great tech, but he's only viable in certain decks.
 
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