Pokemon of the Week #2 - Gengar

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Chillarmy

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Welcome to the second edition of Pokemon of the Week.

To fall in line with Hallowe'en, this week's Pokemon will be Gengar.

Gengar has proven to be somewhat underused, falling to #23 in September Smogon Usage stats and #21 overall. However, his ability to solidly check the majority of the metagame is simply unmatched. Pokemon such as Gliscor, Heatran, Conkeldurr, Reuniclus, and Celebi will all have a tough time dealing with the reintroduced SubDisable without some decent prediction. He also plays an interesting defensive role, being a fairly reliable spin blocker and 3 key immunities. However, his frailty is somewhat off-turning, especially with such a fast metagame and many priority moves.

In this thread discuss Gengar. Post new and creative, yet effective sets. Why has Gengar fallen so much in usage since Gen 4? With Excadrill and Thundurus gone, will it find more usage? Do you find Gengar more effective under waeather, stall, or offensive?

There are two extremely important rules:

1. Please only speak in competitive terms. No lol Golem sooo outclasses Tyranitar cuz he haz Rapid Spinz.
2. No flaming!! Everyone's friends here!​
 
I believe one of the main reasons Gengar has dropped in usage this generation is because weather teams have been dominant, particularly rain and sand. It just seems to miss KOs and it quickly gets hit back for a KO. A stab Surf deals very large damage against Gengar's frail defenses so it can't survive. Being that rain can be summoned infinitely just by bringing in Politoed, rain teams start off with an advantage against it. Rotom-W, one of rain team's possible sweepers, is unable to get OHKO'd by Gengar and then it KOs it right away. Gengar used to be a good check against Rotom and any of its formes due to them being part ghost. With the type changing of the formes this generation, it eliminates the chance for Gengar to do a Shadow Ball to score a OHKO.

Eviolite is another thing that didn't help Gengar any. Chansey now becomes even tougher to take down than Blissey, although Gengar shouldn't be staying in on Chansey. Porygon2 also can wall it decently, despite its weakness to Focus Blast, and can threaten back with Psychic.

Gengar also gained counters this generation that are popular. Conkeldurr is one of the most used Pokemon and can survive any of Gengar's attacks. it then strikes with Payback for a KO. Ferrothorn is a very popular wall and surivives Focus Blast and scores a KO with Gyro Ball. Sets that don't run Gyro Ball likely run Thunder Wave which also cripples Gengar's effectiveness a lot.

The ability Sturdy, which now allows a full HP Pokemon to survive any attack if it is at full health, also hampers Gengar's progress. Skarmory can survive Thunderbolt now and hit back with Brave Bird for very large damage, though that is only something one should do in a desperate situation to get rid of Gengar. Cloyster is also able to survive due to this. It will do Shell Smash most likely the first turn. It will then move before Gengar since its Speed will double and KO it with Icicle Spear.

Gengar's usage will rise slightly due to the banning of Thundurus and Excadrill because both were solid checks to it. It won't be a huge boost due to Ferrothorn and Conkeldurr being so good at defeating it.

I believe Gengar is best used on an offensive team. It has the stats an offensive Pokemon should have. Offensive teams just put a ton of pressure on the opponent right away which is what Gengar really needs to function effectively. It lacks good recovery since its defenses are poor in addtion to its HP. This makes it not perform well on a stall team. It is outclassed by Jellicent on stall teams.
 
Gengar was used a lot more when Garchomp was still OU. I can't recall if SubDisable was being used then, but Icy Wind was on almost every Gengar set I saw. x4 damage and a Speed reduce was terrible for a Sub+SD Garchomp set.

I've always liked Gengar. It was one of my best members during the 2010 VGC. High Speed, high Sp. Attack, 3 immunities, and having an excellent crippling combination attack makes this thing awesome. If it wasn't for Gengar's meager Defenses and relatively low HP, it would probably see a lot more use. For example, Jellicent, having decent Defenses and a high HP make it an arguably better spin blocker/crippler.
 
dragonexpert said:
Gengar also gained counters this generation that are popular. Conkeldurr is one of the most used Pokemon and can survive any of Gengar's attacks. it then strikes with Payback for a KO. Ferrothorn is a very popular wall and surivives Focus Blast and scores a KO with Gyro Ball. Sets that don't run Gyro Ball likely run Thunder Wave which also cripples Gengar's effectiveness a lot.

The ability Sturdy, which now allows a full HP Pokemon to survive any attack if it is at full health, also hampers Gengar's progress. Skarmory can survive Thunderbolt now and hit back with Brave Bird for very large damage, though that is only something one should do in a desperate situation to get rid of Gengar. Cloyster is also able to survive due to this. It will do Shell Smash most likely the first turn. It will then move before Gengar since its Speed will double and KO it with Icicle Spear.

Gengar's usage will rise slightly due to the banning of Thundurus and Excadrill because both were solid checks to it. It won't be a huge boost due to Ferrothorn and Conkeldurr being so good at defeating it.
Click to expand...

I actually disagree with these. SubDisable Gengar can easily disable Conkeldurr's Payback and Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball, and at least 3HKO them both with Shadow Ball and Focus Blast respectively. Ferrothorn can Paralyze Gengar under a Sub. Skarmory probably won't be staying in on Gengar, and Gengar would win in a 1 on 1 situation.Cloyster I believe is OHKO'd by a Focus Blast, so it won't even be able to get a Shell Smash up. I do, however, agree with you about the Rotoms and Chansey.

EDIT: @slickmario: Yes, Jellicent probably functions as a better spin blocker. However, Jellicent can't hit as hard, and lacks the Ground immunity Gengar holds. Jellicent also can't OHKO Tyranitar.
 
Gengar is an interesting pokemon nowadays. The offensive type coverage he has is matched only by a few, most of which either aren't as fast, or as powerfu. (Starmie, for example?) Excadrill and Thundurus getting banned should be a big plus for gengar, as both outsped (excadrill in sand) and could OHKO or at least cripple it. Prankster Thunder Wave hurt a lot. However with those two removed, Gengar can now serve as a check to many pokemon. Tyranitar and Ferrothorn always have to fear a Focus Blast, and the Lati twins have to risk a speed tie to try and KO. Gengar can alsu lure in common counters or checks, such as Scizor and KO with HP Fire. I think Gengar will rise in popularity, as it still retains his title for "best offensive ghost type" with numerous opportunities to switch in, and great offensive power.

@Chill/de: Ferrothorn makes for a great check to sub/disable. Power Whip will easily break the sub, and I'll just keep spamming that until you finally decide to disable it. Otherwise Ferro can also use Protect, and can alternate between Gyro Ball/Protect to make sure he does not get disabled. Conkeldurr is kinda iffy. If he runs both Stone Edge and Payback, you're in trouble. Most don't however, so you should e fine with Sub/Disable Gengar vs a Conkelderp.
 
That Disable buff is a mixed blessing imo on Gengar. 99.9% of Gengar run the SubDisable set so you basically attack it predict the Disable and go to something else that can revenge it in my case Banded Scizor. Still it is a very good and underrated Pokemon. It can shut down many Pokemon that only have one move that can hut (thanks to its amazing typing and ability) like ConkeldDerp. It is tough to fit it on a team because it doesn't have benefit from any weather (100% accuracy Thunder???) but with the recent bannings fast and frail things like Gengar will raise in usage.
 
The Power of Three said:
Gengar is an interesting pokemon nowadays. The offensive type coverage he has is matched only by a few, most of which either aren't as fast, or as powerfu. (Starmie, for example?)
Click to expand...

Actually Starmie's STAB'd Hydro Pump is considerably stronger then Gengar's STAB'd Shadow Ball. Lacking that big base 100-120 makes Gengar a little weaker with its STAB move then some of its other special attacking brethren. Of course it has a stronger thunderbolt then Starmie but it just lacks that silver arrow Starmie has with Hydro Pump (which can become even more powerful just by switching Politoed in).
 
Gengar's gotten better this generation with the buff to Disable, but I find that the metagame isn't very kind to it.

First of all, Drought and Drizzle are present in the metagame, and are two of the top playstyles at the moment. Gengar doesn't mesh well with either playstyle, as it isn't benefited by either (other than the 100% accurate Thunder, which a lot of Pokemon javascript:Thread.reportPost(2149605);get anyways). When building a weather team, the teammates need to benefit from the weather you're running, which is why weather+Gengar isn't common at all.

Related to weather, if you aren't running weather, you need to be able to beat it. Again, Gengar can't beat weather. Its outpaced by the Chlorophyll sweepers, it can't take a hit from the Rain abusers (DDnite, Tornadus, Starmie, Politoed just to name a few), and Scizor is used on Rain teams as well. In the sand, Landorus and Terrakion outpace and KO with a Scarf; their most common set). Adding to the fact that Tyranitar is the face of sandstorm, Gengar struggles in the sandstorm.

So yes, Gengar did get a buff in between generations, but the metagame isn't very friendly to it at the present time.
 
I agree with Bippa. The only good thing for Gengar is the fact it got Disable. And the only two good Weather teams it would do well in is Rain for Thunder and Sunny Day for HP Fire. Those are the only good things.
 
No lol Golem sooo outclasses Tyranitar cuz he haz Rapid Spinz. I think Gengar is actually pretty good this gen, being able to take on well predicted choice Pokemon thanks to Disable's new accuracy gain. While yes Gengar does have a let down in stats, the new standard set allows Gengar to hit everything for neutral or SE damage. Althought Conkeldurr can easily be disposed of, a well predicted Mach Punch after the first Payback is used will make Gengar squirm, as well as the aforemention Gyro Ball etc.
 
Gengar has never been bad. Actually Gengar has been pretty successful in the past and is just as effective now. I don't think its gotten better or worse, it use to be strong in a offensive way and now it is still effective in that offensive way but, it is likely you'll use the SubDiasable because it is simply more effective. Gengar is one of the top ghost's because of the ghost types it competes with. It doesn't have much competition and it is still powerful in the Offensive and more defensive way. Though SubDiasble gar can still be taken out because what people don't realize is you wont keep a pokemon in with only 1 move that can hit Gengar you would switch to a more versatile pokemon that has atleast 2 moves that can hit gengar because it is a terrible decision to stay in which I have realized in the past. ( I've made mistakes -_- ) Gengar is still a top tier pokemon and you have to know how to play against as well as use it with a more popular SubDisable set nowadays.

- R-C
 
Pride said:
Actually Starmie's STAB'd Hydro Pump is considerably stronger then Gengar's STAB'd Shadow Ball. Lacking that big base 100-120 makes Gengar a little weaker with its STAB move then some of its other special attacking brethren. Of course it has a stronger thunderbolt then Starmie but it just lacks that silver arrow Starmie has with Hydro Pump (which can become even more powerful just by switching Politoed in).
Click to expand...

Hydro Pump is, yes. I meant the raw power of their extra coverage moves. Both get great coverage (Gengar in Focus Blast, Thunderbolt, and HP Fighting or Fire, Starmie gets Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Psychic, and Grass Knot.) They'll have the same power (all between 90 and 95, save for Focus Blast and the hidden Powers.) but Gengar's Special Attack is base 130, whereas Starmie only has base 100, thus making Gengar hit considerably harder.
 
When you are facing Gengar:
1.) Hit it as it makes the Sub.
2.) Switch as it tries to Disable your move to something that can revenge it or wall it.
3.) Bye Gengar
 
shadow_scyther said:
When you are facing Gengar:
1.) Hit it as it makes the Sub.
2.) Switch as it tries to Disable your move to something that can revenge it or wall it.
3.) Bye Gengar
Click to expand...

on no. 2 if your faster you don't have to switch just hit it with a priority move or an attack that you don't care for that way you don't have to switch and they just wasted away their disable

on the other hand however gengar will be expecting a trap and will probably only come in on a clear advantage that way your forced to switch while gengar can happily use sub and from there Shadow Ball + Focus Blast should take care of any threat.... so be careful because gengar will rip through teams that can't counter him (I've always found focus sash cloyster to do the trick....)
 
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