Post - Next Destinies = SP Format 3.0?

[Vulpix Yolk]

My response in bold.

You "slightly" agreed with the Protect IP thread? Oh so you're actually in favor of the U.S. Government regulating the Internet as they please shutting down copyrighted material from Gaming Sites and Social Media Sites that are protected under the FAIR USE Act (Freedom and Innovation Revitalizing United States Entrepreneurship Act of 2007). The Entertainment Industry doesn't know how to operate with current technology as well because they are refusing to adapt to it by still wanting to get paid for what they want while stripping 1st Amendment rights away from people in the U.S.

It pains me that I always have to get in trouble by people like you, I mean If I have problems with the Pokemon TCG why is it a problem to address those problems If they are at all? I don't mind debating about certain things but you make it sound like I'm doing it to be immature instead of getting to something that I feel needs to be addressed. Possibly not but hey that's part of why I'm here to debate on this. For better or worse I suppose.

Irrelevant to your general argument (whatever it is, all you points seem to be different from the point before it) also its funny because you missed the point of Riskbreaker's post. Also, you constantly have some problem with the TCG, it has really just become pointless whining on the internet because you can't adjust to the metagame.


Well you have a good point about that actually, the comparisons explain:

What SP had:

* A means to cut down energy costs available only to SPs.
* A Supporter that can search for ALL of the necessary cards for an SP Pokemon to function.
* A Pokemon that can heal damage from all other SP Pokemon with a non-attack.
* A means to stop Powers/Bodies with no downside.
* Cheap Attackers with low HP.

What EX's have:

* High HP attackers with average attack costs.
* No proprietary card engine unique to just the EX's.
* The downside of giving your Opponent 2 prize cards when KO'ed.
* Eviolite (but it's not unique to the EX's)

It is worth noting that all of the EX's revealed so far are terrible. I don't care how much HP something has if I get two prizes when I kill it, and its attack is like 4 energy for 100 damage. You're really worried that something like this

Kyurem EX – Water – HP180
Basic Pokemon

[W][C][C] Freezing Wing: 60 damage. Choose 1 Special Energy attached to the opponent’s Active Pokemon, and discard it.
[W][W][C][C] Hail Blizzard: 120 damage. This Pokemon can’t use Hail Blizzard during your next turn.

Pokemon EX Rule: When Pokemon EX is Knocked Out, your opponent takes 2 Prize cards.

Weakness: Steel (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 3

Is going to dominate the format like SP's did. Really?


I still think ZPST is a solid deck but Eelektrik for Dynamotor isn't a bad consistent choice for Zekrom decks in general. The problem I see with Eelektrik in Zekrom is that it needs {L} in the Discard Pile for it to work on a benched Basic, it's not bad but I'm personally in favor of using Pachirisu and Tornadus with Zekrom.

ZPST is fairly constant the way it is, Eelektirk would actually take away from the constancy of the deck.

Durant Mill isn't a bad deck, Casual wise it's amazing but Competitively it's kinda terribad now that I think about it and yes it does autowin against CaKE.

Durant is very competitive, you clearly need to test against it. PM esperante if you want to get thrashed.

KyuremGatr is kinda risky however it hardly has any Type Disadvantage other than being weak to Cobalion NV which Gatr can cover against for you, as for CaKE (again) yes it has an unfavorable matchup against TyRam but I think it can still work somehow. If you KO Electrode early to mid game to get energy accel going on your Basics you should be in smooth sailing.

lolololol KyuremGatr, you have Feraligatr for Cobalion? Tell me how that works for you, when they score an easy 2HKO after you hit them for 50, and they heal it off.

I don't think Jirachi for Time Hollow is the best way to go cause in my testing with CaKE against Typhlosion/Reshiram/Magnezone I've rarely gotten any energies on Jirachi much less been able to use his attack due to the threat of giving my opponent a prize. Shaymin ex seems like the logical choice but even then it's at a Type Disadvantage. I'll do some more testing on it to find a logical answer. I've come too far with CaKE to tear the deck apart like I did with MewPluff because of Kyurem decimating it.

Yeah, no Jirachi. And what's this? The almighty overpowered basics having difficulties with Stage 2's? Wow, such a bad basic overrun format.

"Overpowered Basic Haymaker" (not the best name for it but hey I guess it fits) basically runs the 3 Dragons (Zekrom, Reshiram, and Kyurem) with the 3 Musketeer Pokemon (Cobalion, Virizion, and Terrakion from NV btw) to basically try to counter almost every deck in the game similiar to The Truth by google Cawthorn but with Reuniclus for Damage Swap to absorb damage to manipulate Outrage from the Dragons and Item Lock with Vileplume, it also runs Shaymin UL to transfer energies with Celebration Wind and Seeker If necessary.

I've actually played against this, it worked ok, still wasn't good enough to be mentioned in any tier list though.

Please, test more in this format. Also, there are plenty of viable stage 2 decks you forgot to mention.

Gothitelle.
The Truth
Magneboar
Magnezone Eels.
Rehsiphlosion
Reshiboar.
VVV (better than a lot of the basic decks you have mentioned)
Chandelure

Yeah, this format is not overrun with basics, and it isn't going to be after we get some bad card with "ongz these have so much hp pointz!!!1!!". Even if this format was overrun with basics, that wouldn't be a bad thing, because there are many type of basics, like you mentioned. Please, either deal with these complaint that no one else has, or find a new hobby. Seriously.

 

[Glace]

Please, test more in this format. Also, there are plenty of viable stage 2 decks you forgot to mention.

Gothitelle.
The Truth
Magneboar
Magnezone Eels.
Rehsiphlosion
Reshiboar.
VVV (better than a lot of the basic decks you have mentioned)
Chandelure

Yeah, this format is not overrun with basics, and it isn't going to be after we get some bad card with "ongz these have so much hp pointz!!!1!!". Even if this format was overrun with basics, that wouldn't be a bad thing, because there are many type of basics, like you mentioned. Please, either deal with these complaint that no one else has, or find a new hobby. Seriously.

I agree with this post.

Not to mention most of the EX's are bad.

Are we going to see a pessimistic thread every time a new set comes out?

Just like all the past threads you've made, have your speculations ever came true. Play! Pokémon knows what they are doing.

 

[catutie]

I agree with this post.

Not to mention most of the EX's are bad.

Are we going to see a pessimistic thread every time a new set comes out?

Just like all the past threads you've made, have your speculations ever came true. Play! Pokémon knows what they are doing.

Most cards are bad....but it's that one EX that is so good that it will nullify Stage 2 decks. We already have some that would beat most Stage 2 decks right off the line (Reshiram EX, Zekrom EX, possibly Kyorgre EX)

 

[Glace]

but it's that one EX that is so good that it will nullify Stage 2 decks. We already have some that would beat most Stage 2 decks right off the line (Reshiram EX, Zekrom EX, possibly Kyorgre EX)

Which is why there is the two prize rule. Format changes come from most decks. Though Gothitelle won't be playable anymore most likely, new decks that were not playable because of Gothitelle will be.. You are only seeing the bad, not the good.

 

[catutie]

Ya I know with the death of some decks brings new ones but with all the 180 basics coming out it's going to rid of Stage 2 decks. Ya you can do 100 to them but that doesn't kill them and then they do 150 back and one shot you...most of the time that won't even happen. I mean they will be ready to go turn 2 most of the time. They take out your Stage 2 in one hit you have to send out something else and hope you can draw into something that will help you to take it down or they just one shot you again...

 

[Glace]

Stage 2 attacks for 100. Stage 2 knocked out by Reshiram/Zekrom. Stage 1 knocks out Reshiram/Zekrom. They took 1 prize, you took 2.

 

[Slowbro]

The X Ball correction was previously noted.

In any case, I can see it pairing well with dragons since Goth is a problem for them anyway, but like I said, I'm not sold on the Gardevior or Celebi engine. The former especially is too reliant on Gardeviors not being dragged out and killed. I guess that can be said about Eelektrik and Typhlosion too, but Gard is sort of the worst of both worlds since it is below the magic 120, like Eel, but is a stage 2, like Phlosion.

Perhaps my original judgment was harsher than I intended it to be. Mewtwo as a main attacker with Gard and Celebi could certainly be tier 2, maybe 1.5, but there's no way it's going to be tier 1 or BDIF, which some people were claiming early on, a claim that I ultimately rail against.

Gardevoir wouldn't pair well with celebi. Celebi can only accelerate {G}, and gardy only benefits {P}. I am actually testing a list that protects mewtwo as well as getting the T2 Gardy out. This means 80+ damage T2.

On-topic: This format is way more diverse than sp's. None of the ex's are format breaking, and there are still plenty of viable stage 2's out there.

 

[catutie]

Stage 2 attacks for 100. Stage 2 knocked out by Reshiram/Zekrom. Stage 1 knocks out Reshiram/Zekrom. They took 1 prize, you took 2.

Turn 2. Ya you have had 2 turns to place energy...and that is only something like Megazone. Even then it would be very situational. Start with Magnemite, Magnezone, Rare Candy, Pachi, Yanma, Yanmega. Even then...you still have to have energy. They are just insanely fast and insanely powerful.

 

[Card Slinger J]

Okay, after I played in City Champs last Saturday with a 3-2 record with CaKE (Cobalion/Kyurem/Electrode Prime) I think it's safe to say for me that I greatly overexaggerated quite a bit on what I said earlier on this thread about this format being a new SP Format when it was revealed to me that it clearly isn't the case at all.

I did not see a single Durant Mill deck being played at all, and yes Vanilluxe is very viable with and without Mew Prime and I managed to beat it with CaKE. In the 1st Round I played I did manage to beat a TyRam deck without running Jirachi hence I was running 2 Cleffas and 4 Catcher despite my opponent getting a prize penalty by accident.

I only lost against ZPST because I had a terrible early game start, and came close to beating TyRam/Magnezone only the bad part of that matchup was that the Electrode Prime I needed to win was in my prizes. It was the best game I played at the event I'll admit. It's weird though cause alot of times Kyurem fits more as a main attacker in CaKE than Cobalion due to the overabundance of Fire decks in the format but that will change with Mewtwo ex next set (well maybe).

All in all HGSS-On is a pretty balanced format, at first I didn't believe it until I saw it with my own eyes at Cities and now I'm convinced. I'm dead serious folks, so yeah I apologize for causing any trouble with you guys especially you Riskbreakers. Sure the metagame is fast paced but it isn't nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be, I think Noble Victories had a positive change in the format.

Yeah, this format is not overrun with basics, and it isn't going to be after we get some bad card with "ongz these have so much hp pointz!!!1!!". Even if this format was overrun with basics, that wouldn't be a bad thing, because there are many type of basics, like you mentioned. Please, either deal with these complaint that no one else has, or find a new hobby. Seriously.

I'm learning to deal with them, and I'm not going to find a new hobby cause I still enjoy playing the Pokemon TCG. I've said earlier just recently that this format wasn't as overrun with basics as I assumed it was. You don't need to be a jerk like Riskbreakers about it towards me. I mention one thread that's TCG related and people treat me like crap on these forums other than something I post in the Deck Garage. All I want out of you guys is some respect, is that so much to ask for?

 

[Riskbreakers]

No need to apologize. I just want to point out faults and as I said in the other thread, I wasn't in a good mood that day lol.

CaKE is a really good deck that will see it's rise come Next Destinies. Zekrom is always annoying but it runs out of steam late game. Nice job beating TyRam with CaKE though, that's usually a near autoloss.

 

[Card Slinger J]

No need to apologize. I just want to point out faults and as I said in the other thread, I wasn't in a good mood that day lol.

CaKE is a really good deck that will see it's rise come Next Destinies. Zekrom is always annoying but it runs out of steam late game. Nice job beating TyRam with CaKE though, that's usually a near autoloss.

Yeah thanks, it wasn't easy though. I only KO'ed Electrode once that game and just built up on energies after while I Catcher stalled her, she was running Tornadus in her TyRam build which was interesting to say the least. If it wasn't for that prize penalty my opponent had where we were forced to start the game with 5 prizes instead of 6 I'm not sure If I still would've won, I think I would've of but it was still a close game though.

All that matters is that I had fun and I did, TyRam with Magnezone teched is a pain to go up against and usually you want to get like 2-3 Kyurem out and Energymite to keep using Glaciate and 60 to Reshiram. I thought of running Terrakion in CaKE to help get around Magnezone and Zekrom but I'm not sure If it's worth it or not especially since I run 4 Rainbow until Prism Energy is released next set.

 

[Riskbreakers]

Hold CaKE until next destinies. It's not yet a very good deck right now but it is very playable. Too much fire is the problem

 

[Card Slinger J]

That's part of the reason why I use Kyurem as a main attacker in the deck over Cobalion nowadays. I try to go for a few Glaciates or If I need to Outrage as a last resort. Also CaKE is the only deck I have currently built right now. I want to build another deck but I'm not sure what yet...

 

[Rybekk]

I'm unimpressed with the EX pokemon outside of Shaymin so far.

Rem may well have 180hp, but his attacks are substandard, and don't have any disruption or support ability. Mewtwo and Groudon can be said to be viable, in my opinion at least.

These get me going more:

Zapdos
Gardevoir
Bronzong

Irrespective of that, it's far far far too early to call it.

 

[Magnevire]

Please explain to me how Shaymin EX is good. Synthesis is a slightly better version of Thundurus's Charge attack, except that there are few grass attackers that run on energy, let alone need acceleration. 60 for two is pretty bad, never mind that it only does sixty as a revenge KO. Terrakion does better than that, with better type advantage and overall damage. This card would be bad if the opponent took one prize off it, let alone two. Bronzong could be interesting with Vileplume, but it's an easy KO as well so it hardly matters.

Is this a troll post? Seriously?

 

[Kingdra_fan]

While I agree Shaymin EX isn't that great, I will be getting a playset of the full art cards and decking them.

Shaymin looks far to cool to not play, but looking at it from a competitive angle I have to agree with Magnevire, it's not going to be changing the meta.
Bring back +40HP shaymin please I want 130HP Jumpluff

 

[Rybekk]

Does Shaymin EX count as Shaymin for name or Shaymin EX with the return of this rule?

I'm purely loving it as a replacement for my Shaymin in my current casual grass deck, where it shines as a cheap walloper and as another good engine to charge coin flip alpha strike cards.

 

[Slowbro]

I'm unimpressed with the EX pokemon outside of Shaymin so far.

Rem may well have 180hp, but his attacks are substandard, and don't have any disruption or support ability. Mewtwo and Groudon can be said to be viable, in my opinion at least.

These get me going more:

Zapdos
Gardevoir
Bronzong

Irrespective of that, it's far far far too early to call it.

Zapdos?? Are you serious? What exactly is good about zapdos? Magnevire already addressed shaymin.

 

[Celebi23]

Does Shaymin EX count as Shaymin for name or Shaymin EX with the return of this rule?

I'm purely loving it as a replacement for my Shaymin in my current casual grass deck, where it shines as a cheap walloper and as another good engine to charge coin flip alpha strike cards.

I'm not seeing why Shaymin and Shaymin EX are similar, sorry. How does Shaymin EX even come close to replacing Shaymin? Shaymin EX is a pretty weak card, since it's a two prize liability and has low HP, while regular Shaymin has proven itself time and time again to be an amazing support Pokemon.

In direct answer to your question, yes, you can use 4 Shaymin and 4 Shaymin EX in your deck.

Lunatone/Solrock is better than Bronzong, since it's easier to get out two basics, it can donk, and they aren't quite as bad of Catcher bait.

 

[FearZeCrawdaunt]

For now our metagame is stable enough with the new EX's being released in NEXT Destinies. Reshi and Zek EX don't do any favours for google decks considering the minimum HP main attacker should be able to take a 150 power attack. We might see more Donphan in google again for that reason (I mean, Donphan has always been in google, but now more than ever it will be valuable to survive the 150 damage Zekrom EX, and even be able to 1HKO back with Heavy Impact). Reshi EX is tough to deal with. Until water hits harder off the bat (something like Samurott, but easier to set up), Reshiphlosion will probably continue to dominate the format, only facing true competition from Zekrom variants which might set up faster. Though there is an interesting point to be brought up that's being completely overlooked.

Vanilluxe and Chandelure.

Both status-abusing mons make pretty good EX counters thanks to snipe and debilitating status. Reshiphlosion really doesn't appreciate a trainer lock with making you discard energy to retreat (unless it got the 2-3 Typhlosions off the bat), and Vanilluxe can be used in NA like it is in Japan, a threatening EX-deck counter. No matter what you do, Vanillock will take 2 prizes to your 1 if it they play it right, and that's kinda scary. EX's will be teched everywhere in new decks, but they can't just run willy nilly or players will quickly start playing harder counters like Six-corners more often to suppress the prevalence of EX's. Any deck that guarantees a prize for a prize in the current format, but can lose in speed, becomes far more viable when your 1 prize turns into 2.