Standard Post Rotation Greninja

[Føcus]

Hey, I picked up greninja a couple days before worlds, and have been play-testing it online and at my local leagues in the hopes of making this deck work in post rotation, this is the last update I've made, adding a fini and another wally. Last night in a small 17person tournament I managed to get 3rd, going 4-1.
Golisopod L
Metagross W
Charizard W
Volcanion W
Gardevoir W



My goal here was to maintain constant scaling throughout my turns with the help of 2 Wally+ 2Rare Candy,to try and get as much use from shadow stitching as I can early.In an effort to also slow my opponents down who most likely have a fast set up than me, I have teched a small batch of disruption with Tapu Fini GX(Tapu Storm),Espeon EX, and Enhanced Hammer. All 3 of these cards have the ability shut down my opponent's board if they're played at the right time. I would say the star of the show is Fini, with the help of Greninja having free retreat, it allows for me to keep my primary focus on using GWS(Giant Water Shuriken) on the benched pokemon and Tapu Storm to set my opponent back a bit.

I love sniping decks and the idea of taking prizes before even attacking gives you the ability to "combo chain" your stuff most of the time! I feel like Greninja is a fun deck, being very well against deck's that have 60HP basics, and also the one's that have a hard time trading for single prize attackers.

What do you guys like if anything? What would you guys change or do differently?


****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

##Pokémon - 20

* 1 Espeon-EX BKP 52
* 1 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 60
* 3 Greninja BREAK BKP 41
* 4 Froakie BKP 38
* 4 Frogadier BKP 39
* 4 Greninja BKP 40
* 1 Staryu BKP 25
* 1 Starmie EVO 31
* 1 Tapu Fini-GX BUS 39

##Trainer Cards - 30

* 2 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
* 1 Evosoda GEN 62
* 2 Wally ROS 94
* 1 Timer Ball SUM 134
* 4 N DEX 96
* 1 Fisherman BKT 136
* 1 Skyla BKT 148
* 1 Field Blower GRI 125
* 2 Guzma BUS 115
* 4 Ultra Ball SUM 135
* 3 Choice Band GRI 121
* 1 Enhanced Hammer PHF 94
* 4 Professor Sycamore PHF 101
* 2 Rare Candy SUM 129
* 1 Max Potion GRI 128

##Energy - 10

* 8 Water Energy 3
* 2 Splash Energy BKP 113

Total Cards - 60

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******

 

[wishiwashi collector]

first off... why the fini????

 

[Føcus]

first off... why the fini????

the fini was to slow people down by using the GX, for ex: after my opponent would kiawe, after a metagross evolves, same with gardevoir

 

[wishiwashi collector]

I thought greninja was supposed to be the deck that everything cost 1 prize.... my life is a lie

 

[MoFoTY86]

So idk about the Wally. It's a waste of a supporter for the turn. Also never tried Tapu Fini and not against it. You can snipe 120 and use the GX to disrupt their game. Honestly no need for Espeon EX. I am not an expert on deck making but have ideas and suggestions. My question to you is have you used this decklist in tournaments or free play? And if so, what have you face and the outcome?

-I would drop the Enhanced Hammer for another Field Blower. I always end up having to use 2-3 to discard the tool of the Garbodor.
-I would also drop a Timer Ball for another Rescue Stretcher. Most of the time your evolutions will be knocked out and you can get them back or get a few put back in your deck.
-Also Brooklet Hill is interesting to get your Froakies to reset a bit and Staryu out faster. Even Fini.
-My ideal Energy count is 7 basic water and 3 splash. Only because Splash lets you keep your frogs to reset your Ninjas.

-1 Fisherman. You're most likely going to get your energies back with Starmie's Space Beacon. With that slot open I would put back in a Timer Ball for that chance to quickly evolve your Ninjas.
-1 Espeon EX, +1 Evosoda. Yes Espeon can de-evolve their Pokémon and knock out with previous evolution with all the damage but you are trying to 2 prize knock outs. But hey it's an interesting Tech card and taking any prizes is better than not taking any. If it is helping you win games, keep it in.

Other suggestions:

-Lillie, first turn draw up to 8. Or up to 6. Not a bad idea.
-Sophocles: discard 2 water energies. Draw 4 cards. Use Space Beacon (Starmie) to get those 2 basic energy cards back.

Let me know what you think.

 

[gumball51321]

So idk about the Wally. It's a waste of a supporter for the turn. Also never tried Tapu Fini and not against it. You can snipe 120 and use the GX to disrupt their game. Honestly no need for Espeon EX. I am not an expert on deck making but have ideas and suggestions. My question to you is have you used this decklist in tournaments or free play? And if so, what have you face and the outcome?

-I would drop the Enhanced Hammer for another Field Blower. I always end up having to use 2-3 to discard the tool of the Garbodor.
-I would also drop a Timer Ball for another Rescue Stretcher. Most of the time your evolutions will be knocked out and you can get them back or get a few put back in your deck.
-Also Brooklet Hill is interesting to get your Froakies to reset a bit and Staryu out faster. Even Fini.
-My ideal Energy count is 7 basic water and 3 splash. Only because Splash lets you keep your frogs to reset your Ninjas.

-1 Fisherman. You're most likely going to get your energies back with Starmie's Space Beacon. With that slot open I would put back in a Timer Ball for that chance to quickly evolve your Ninjas.
-1 Espeon EX, +1 Evosoda. Yes Espeon can de-evolve their Pokémon and knock out with previous evolution with all the damage but you are trying to 2 prize knock outs. But hey it's an interesting Tech card and taking any prizes is better than not taking any. If it is helping you win games, keep it in.

Other suggestions:

-Lillie, first turn draw up to 8. Or up to 6. Not a bad idea.
-Sophocles: discard 2 water energies. Draw 4 cards. Use Space Beacon (Starmie) to get those 2 basic energy cards back.

Let me know what you think.

IDK about Brooklet Hill, but it seems better than nothing right now. Fisherman is a really good 1-of in Greninja, even with Starmie and no VS Seeker. Getting 4 Water back is just real good. I agree on Wally and Field Blower though. If you drop the Fisherman, drop it for a Super Rod. Here's the changes I'd make:

-1 Timer Ball
-2 Wally
-1 Skyla
-1 Espeon-EX
-1 Tapu Lele GX

+1 Max Potion
+1 Evosoda
+1 Field Blower
+2 Brooklet Hill
+1 Switch

Switch is just nice because you don't have to waste Energy attachments to retreat into a Greninja. It's also a way to get the fabled triple Giant Water Shuriken. 2 Max Potion is better than 1 because a lot of stuff can't OHKO since you're not a GX, so if they hit you hard, they can't just Flying Flip for a KO. I like the idea of Fini, and it seems viable, so no complaints there. Because VS Seeker rotates, it's not super easy to hit Fisherman, so if you play Greninja, play Starmie, right? Like @MoFoTY86 said, Garbotoxin exists, so 2 Field Blower or bust. It's also really good against decks that actually run stadiums, since you don't(unless you put in Brooklet Hill). 1 Timer Ball and 1 Evosoda split makes no sense. Timer Ball is a flip card that does what Evosoda guarantees you. Actually, with Dive Ball rotating, maybe even play 3 Evosoda. Wally has little to no merit in the new format, since you can't reliably hit it T1, and there's no reason to hit it by T2-3 because of how slow the new format is. Espeon is super good in itself, but Greninja is a deck that relies on the 1 prize card trade, which is the same reason for not running Tapu Lele. Tapu Fini is an exception, and you gave a really good reason why. I never really liked Rare Candy in Greninja, since it kind of defeats the purpose of Frogadier, but whatever floats your boat sweetheart. I honestly don't think Greninja will be good post-rotation just because of consistency problems. It had consistency problems before, but now it's just crazy. Like I said, with no VS Seeker, Fisherman isn't as strong, so Talonflame or Octillery routes just mean the decks blows up then runs out of steam. Good luck making it work though. P.S, nice Waters

 

[Trainer Josh]

I gotta be honest with you, you are running a Greninja deck list I have never seen or heard of before (does that mean it's bad, heck no). But for the sake of building a competitive post-rotation Greninja deck, I would recommend you change your strategy to the more common/standard one. Greninja simply isn't a deck that is naturally consistent enough for you to "play around" with different cards and expect success. The only change you could make is either use the Starmie/Greninja archetype or Talonflame/Greninja archetype. From playtesting and personal experience, I have found Talonflame to work better, but that is a decision for you to make of course. On the note of your success going 4-1, all the decks you versed except Golisopod are great matchups for Greninja you should win anyways. That being said, I'm going to post my deck list simply because there are too many changes between the lists for me explain. Feel free to tag me or contact me if you have any questions as to how the deck runs or what a card's purpose is. I highly recommend you at least consider trying to run a deck list or strategy similar to what I have posted, good luck!

Pokémon: 19
3 Froakie- BREAKPoint
4 Frogadier- BREAKPoint
4 Greninja- BREAKPoint
4 Greninja BREAK- BREAKPoint
4 Talonflame- Steam Siege

Trainers: 31
3 Choice Band- Guardians Rising
2 Field Blower- Guardians Rising
2 Max Potion- Guardians Rising
4 N- Fates Collide
4 Professor Sycamore- BREAKPoint
2 Rescue Stretcher- Guardians Rising
4 Ultra Ball- Sun and Moon
3 Guzma- Burning Shadows
1 Super Rod- BREAKthrough
2 Fisherman- BREAKthrough
1 Professor's Letter- BREAKthrough
3 Evosoda- Generations

Energy: 10
2 Splash energy- BREAKPoint
8 Water Energy- All Sets

 

[jessalakasam]

You take an L to anyone running Promo Tina. I personally run a 2-2 A-Muk (SUM) line and 1 Lele. I find it pretty good and also slows down Volcanion by preventing Leles and Steam Ups
Here's my personal list:
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

##Pokémon - 19

* 2 Alolan Grimer SUM 57
* 2 Alolan Muk SUM 58
* 1 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 155
* 3 Greninja BREAK BKP 41
* 3 Froakie BKP 38
* 4 Frogadier BKP 39
* 4 Greninja BKP 40

##Trainer Cards - 31

* 4 Professor Sycamore STS 114
* 2 Rescue Stretcher BUS 165
* 2 Max Potion EPO 94
* 1 Super Rod DRV 20
* 1 Lillie SUM 147
* 3 Choice Band GRI 121
* 1 Fisherman HS 92
* 1 Escape Rope BUS 163
* 3 Evosoda XY 116
* 4 Ultra Ball SUM 161
* 1 Float Stone PLF 99
* 2 Guzma BUS 143
* 2 Field Blower GRI 163
* 4 N NVI 101

##Energy - 10

* 8 Water Energy EVO 93
* 2 Splash Energy BKP 113

Total Cards - 60

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******

 

[AFEX]

I am reeeealy trying to keep my cool, as a future Greninja player, you got 3rd, in a 17 person tournament with this deck, and I know why, I am simply going to point out the issues that are seriously bugging me, but remember the deck is still pretty good/solid but still, take anything I say, with a grain of salt.

(Issue 1-) Tapu Fini GX- I know why you use it, the GX attack, I know it's good, but the point of Greninja BREAK, is 1. to be a one prize deck, 2. to be a low energy speed deck.
Tapu Fini eradicates any form of that, 3 energies for its gx attack, heck, lets say you dont even use the gx attack and just 1 nrg aqua ring attack, you're still giving up 2 prizes when fini is knocked out.

(Issue 2-) Tapu Lele GX- This is the only deck where Tapu Lele is an issue, rather than a help (Similar to what my boi Josh implied with his list). first thing, I know wonder tag is good, but it's completely unnecessary, because it can Be Guzma'd. That's not good, because if you're benched Lele gets Guzma'd, you will very much have a struggle trying to power up your lele, and the fact you don't want to have to power up lele! You want to power Greninjas', not waste your time powering up your lele just to make sure it doesn't get knocked out! Plus it's a 2 prize card, which again distracts from a Greninja decks main goal, being a 1 prize deck.

that's about it, you can probably stand to swap out one water for something, but other than that...

Good Luck in the future!- AFEX

 

[swaginator5000]

honestly im going to go against the stream of what everyone else is saying because i think its actually a very good list. the Tapu Fini is really good and in testing iv done with it in other decks its SUPER effective to slow down your opponent. the only real gripe i kinda have is the timer ball because while a double heads can be amazing that one time you double tails it could ruin your game so id personally swap it for a second evo soda

 

[Xeynid]

I gotta be honest with you, you are running a Greninja deck list I have never seen or heard of before

Simone Soldo got 3rd at the milan open right after the release of GUR with a greninja list including Lele and Espeon EX, similar to this list.

He was using 1 copy of the promo greninja in order to counter Gyarados, and the Espeon EX was, presumably, for decidueye.

I don't think Espeon EX is really worth it anymore. You already have a good matchup against Garde and Metagross without it.

 

[Trainer Josh]

Simone Soldo got 3rd at the milan open right after the release of GUR with a greninja list including Lele and Espeon EX, similar to this list.

Honestly had not heard about this one, guess it has seen success after all. That being said, you named one player, so I might as well name some of the people who won recently with strategies using pure Talonflame or Starmie builds.

Worlds Championships 2017: Michael Long 2nd place.
North American Internationals 2017: Alex Krekeler 8th place, Michael Long 1st place, Jared Chapman 2nd place, Jackson Heier 4th place.
Madison Regionals 2017: Regan Retzloff 2nd place.

There are a lot more people who have seen success, but they are from slightly older tournaments in the 2016-2017 season so no reason to mention them. As I have said before, I don't think running a different deck list is bad at all (heck it might become the next "normal" for Greninja), but at the moment I believe a pure build is still the best.

 

[AFEX]

Honestly had not heard about this one, guess it has seen success after all. That being said, you named one player, so I might as well name some of the people who won recently with strategies using pure Talonflame or Starmie builds.

Worlds Championships 2017: Michael Long 2nd place.
North American Internationals 2017: Alex Krekeler 8th place, Michael Long 1st place, Jared Chapman 2nd place, Jackson Heier 4th place.
Madison Regionals 2017: Regan Retzloff 2nd place.

There are a lot more people who have seen success, but they are from slightly older tournaments in the 2016-2017 season so no reason to mention them. As I have said before, I don't think running a different deck list is bad at all (heck it might become the next "normal" for Greninja), but at the moment I believe a pure build is still the best.

I would agree, but for this rotation right now, i just don't think experimenting with Greninja's already perfect formula isn't really the best.