Hello all. It's been a long while for me and am debating picking up a deck after rotation since LGSs in my area don't have locals yet due to the pandemic.
As a bit of a Nessa fan I wanted to play something water (that includes Nessa) that would be at least somewhat decent.
This is something I've been working on that I think could use a few tweaks to reach its max potential.
Pokemon x20
3x Ice Rider Calyrex V (Chilling Reign)
3x Ice Rider Calyrex VMax (Chilling Reign)
2x Suicune V (Evolving Skies)
4x Sobble (Chilling Reign)
4x Drizzile (SwSh Base)
2x Inteleon (SwSh Base)
2x Inteleon (Chilling Reign)
Supporter x12
3x Professor's Research (Shining Fates)
3x Boss's Orders (Rebel Clash)
3x Melony (Chilling Reign)
2x Marnie (SwSh Base)
1x Nessa (Vivid Voltage)
Trainer x18
4x Quick Ball (SwSh Base)
4x Level Ball (Battle Styles)
3x Evolution Incense (SwSh Base)
2x Capacious Bucket (Rebel Clash)
2x Switch (SwSh Base)
2x Air Balloon (SwSh Base)
1x Scoop Up Net (Rebel Clash)
Stadium x2
2x Path to the Peak (Chilling Reign)
Energy x8
8x Water Energy
I'll do the card by card as I always do with my deck lists
3/3 Ice Rider Calyrex Line - Still the deck's primary win condition, however dropped to 3/3 as the need for Ice Rider is not as great with Suicune V in the list as well as the maxed out Inteleon line to search your quick balls and evo incense to basically get you Ice Rider Calyrex incredibly consistently anyway, even at 3/3.
2 Suicune V - I'll be completely honest - I almost want to run this card at 4. Suicune V is a complete monster of a card and honestly the Pokemon I want to start every game. Free draw 1 every turn and an amazing attack with a 220 damage ceiling (280 vs Eternatus VMAX) that can be accelerated in 1 turn with Melony. You will often be able to swing on the first turn of the game for a healthy amount of damage going second with this in the active. The main reason why I abstained is because Sobble has a great going 2nd first turn attack as well. People are probably wondering why I'm doing Suicune V in a deck with Path to the Peak, and that's because I get to choose the timing of when I no longer need or want my ability. I don't have to intentionally hold it to play Crobat V first and draw 1 less card before playing it, or have to play it down and then can't Dedenne GX. And depending on the match up (like the mirror match), I won't even be playing down path to the peak anyway. And when I want to start attacking with Ice Rider VMAX and its no longer in my active, then Path to the Peak doesn't hurt me at all.
4/4/2-2 Inteleon - I'm not sure why I didn't consider this sooner, but this is the best support line up for Ice Rider VMAX. Drizzile and SwSh Base Inteleon searches you every card in your deck. Buckets to search energy, Pokemon search cards, supporters exactly when you need them, Path to the Peak exactly when you need it. Instead of randomly hoping to draw 2 into the outs that you need with the Cinccino engine, just search for them instead. Drizzile and Inteleon can also guarantee that you see quick ball to discard 1 energy to accelerate with Melony while also getting you a basic Pokemon in the process. This deck is monsterously consistent with Inteleon. 4 Drizzile and 4 Level Ball is the equivalent of playing 8 computer search on a stage 1 Pokemon. The Sobble from Chilling Reign also lets you just get all the Sobble in play ASAP, which not only thins your deck but gives you a fantastic going second option.
The SwSh Base Inteleon is also how you survive Decidueye/Altaria match ups. 120 ping 20 to the bench kills 2 Decidueye at once in 2 turns (boss up the bench one with 20 damage, hit it for 120 and ping the previous active for 20 for two 140 damage totals), or you can set up 1 Chilling Reign Inteleon to ping 20 in advance to get the OHKO and string momentum. Against Altaria you just OHKO them every turn and it's basically an auto win.
Additionally, if you are already drawing well or the Drizzile searches are already enough, you can evolve up into the Chilling Reign Inteleon and get everything in range. Chilling Reign Inteleon putting 20-40 damage on something means that you can often just take 2 hit KOs on VMAXes with Ice Rider VMAX's first attack or Suicune V and never have to discard any energy which opens up the ability to play supporters besides Melony or set up back up attackers and get further ahead in momentum. If you can get 2 of them in play, you can just ping a Pokemon V to 80 in 2 turns and deny your opponent from wanting to go VMAX since Lance for 250 would be lethal.
Inteleon is strictly superior to the Cinccino engine I was running before. You get greater concistency, less frail Pokemon on the bench that don't immediately die to one Rapid Strike Urshifu for free, and something that fixes your match up against Decidueye/Altaria while making your already efficient main attackers even more efficient with free bonus damage. An even better upside is the 1 retreat cost. Don't see your primary attacker on turn 1? Attach to Sobble. Next turn, find your Suicune/Ice Rider, attach to that, retreat Sobble to get energy in discard, evolve into Drizzile, search for Melony, Melony onto Suicune/Ice Rider. Draw 2 cards doesn't come close to all of that.
3x Professor's Research - Dropped to 3 for more Melony. I also don't feel the urge for 4 of them when you can't play a supporter going first turn 1 anymore, and Melony is always the ideal supporter going second turn 1 anyway. You still want lots of Research as this deck doesn't have good draw power outside of it.
3x Boss's Orders - I play 3 of whatever gust supporter is around in every deck. I find it to be the most successful ratio. Despite being searchable with Drizzile/Inteleon, I still want 3 because I want to boss 3 times per game, not 2. Sometimes bossing the 1 prize basic support Pokemon before it evolves is the best play.
3x Melony - And you don't need 4. Inteleon based lists can guarantee the Melony when you need it, and extra 20-40 damage for free every turn means you should only ever need to Melony once in a good game since you can claim 2 hit KOs on VMAX and OHKOs on Vs without discarding.
2x Marnie - The way this list runs means I have the ability to play Marnie when I have to since you don't need to Melony more than 2 times in any game. A staple I was sorely missing in my previous list.
1x Nessa - Nessa unironically is good in this list. You can Research hands without regret and are often going to be finding yourself researching away VMAXes and Inteleons and Drizziles in order to find a play. Nessa lets you do that without cornering yourself. Mid to late game your discard pile just becomes a second deck. Searchable so you can get her when you need her.
4x Quick Ball - A staple
4x Level Ball - Searches Sobble and Drizzile, which leads to Drizzile searching anything else that you need. Level Ball is fundamentally a card that says "search for anything in your deck." Every trainer card in this deck searches for every other piece of my deck.
3x Evo Incense - Searches Drizzile, Inteleon, and the VMAX. Despite the fact that Evo Incense searches more cards in your deck than either Quick Ball or Level Ball, the fact of the matter is that you have more time to see your evolutions than you do your basics. You want to get the setup rolling and a full 4 Evo Incense was getting a bit cloggy.
2x Capacious Bucket - Now that this is a pure Melony list with no more Frosmoth and the card is searchable, just 2 is fine now. I want 2 so that I can search it twice throughout games for an energy fix.
2x Switch - Standard retreat option ratios. Don't need more with Inteleon engine.
2x Air Balloon - Everything in this deck is 2 retreat or lower. No matter what active I start I'm fine.
1x Scoop Up Net - A great utility card. It acts as a switch card for any of your Sobble evolutions and offers the ability to replay searches. If you have a Sobble and Drizzile and Inteleon in play, you can scoop up the inteleon and immediately replay the drizzile and inteleon. It gives the deck a massive power play turn to shift tempo in your favor. Additionally, you can swap out Inteleons between shady dealings and quick shooting depending on which one you need more at the time.
2x Path to the Peak - My deck doesn't rely on rule box abilities. This helps me against Shadow Rider Calyrex, another out to Zamazenta V, Glaceon VMAX if people play it, Crobat V, you name it. Only ran at 2 because it's not all that great versus a lot of decks, and it's searchable with Drizzile and Inteleon. Urshifu VMAX doesn't care, you don't actually want to use it against Eternatus VMAX unless they outspeed you since you benefit from their bench size as well and Melony means you'll be attacking sooner than them. Right now, Shadow Rider Calyrex VMAX is the biggest card I'd be worried about, and then Umbreon VMAX once people realize that Gengar VMAX/Umbreon VMAX is a tier 1 deck and have access to it. A lot of the best Pokemon abilities are on 1 prize Pokemon nowadays, so this card is not as good as everyone thinks it is after rotation.
8x Water Energy - Just need around the standard 8 to see energy often enough when you need it.
Considered Cards
Here are some cards I've thought of or seen in lists over in Japan but don't see myself running.
Froslass (1/1 or 2/2) - Froslass I think is simply unneeded, and getting good ratios for this Pokemon is very unideal. If you run a 1/1 line you risk prizing either piece and you likely are not getting it when you actually need it. As far as my deck would be concerned, I'd be Drizzile/Inteleon searching for quick and level balls to set up a Snorunt instead of a Suicune V or Ice Rider V/VMAX which doesn't seem correct. If you run a 2/2 line to see it more often, you're clogging 4 spaces of your deck to an effect you can get off of Melony and you're probably better off just running 4 Melony instead of 3 at that point.
The other part of it is bench real estate. In ideal game states, I have 4 Sobble/Drizzile/Inteleon in play with either Ice Rider VMAX + a back up Ice Rider or Ice Rider VMAX + Suicune V, or if I'm feeling really spicy, double Suicune V. Those are the 6 Pokemon I want in play at all times. Since you always need to keep your momentum with a back up attacker, in order to play down a Froslass you must cut into the number of Sobble. One less Inteleon line means that you are searching 3 less cards, or searching 1 less card and losing 20 free damage every turn just to accelerate 1 energy. This creates an inherent contradiction with this list because the whole point of my deck is that I'm Max Lancing no more than twice in a game. I'm taking constant 2 hit KOs with Ice Rider VMAX's first attack and/or Suicune V with Inteleon pinging damage every turn to fix my math for if my opponent tries to play around me by limiting their bench. Running Froslass means you intend on spamming Max Lance. That's not what my deck wants to do.
The final issue with Froslass, as well as Frosmoth and Cinccino, is the 90 HP. Remember that this is a post rotation list. I'm making some bold guesses as to what the meta will look like, but in a world where Rapid Strike Urshifu is very popular because of Gengar VMAX completely countering Shadow Rider Calyrex, you do not want 120 HP or lower bench sitters. Rapid Strike Urshifu can take a 4 prize turn by rapid flowing Ice Rider VMAX and your Froslass/Frosmoth/Cinccino. You basically lose the game at that point. Inteleon being 150 or 160 HP is incredibly important to not giving free avenues to Rapid Strike Urshifu.
Cheryl (1) - A card that you can only play in Froslass builds or Frosmoth builds. People tend to read Max Lance, not read the fact that the first attack is Zoroark GX but better, and just think to themselves "hey, you'll have 0 energy anyway which means you can play Cheryl!"
Why I don't buy into this statement is because Ice Rider is an agro deck, not a stall or control deck. The deck doesn't gain anything from playing Cheryl, attaching for turn, then passing. Ice Rider is threatening because of the fact that it can just Melony and attach at any point in the game and immediately push for 130 or more damage. Stalling only gives set up style decks like Eternatus and Shadow Rider more time to establish their perfect scenario. So if you're gonna go Cheryl, at least play it with Froslass so you can heal without giving up aggression. However, Cheryl + Froslass still makes you lose hand advantage by not drawing with Marnie/Melony/Research and not searching with Drizzile/Inteleon though, so I still think it's just incorrect.
EDIT: I know about the new Milotic as anti-Marnie tech, and I am thinking about doing an Eevee Heroes Zoroark strategy so I can run Frosmoth, Cinccino, and Milotic via Zoroark's ability. It would look something like 4/4 Zoroark, 2 Frosmoth, 2 Cinccino, 1 Milotic, and Evolution Incense would go to 4 and Level Ball would drop to 2 since Zoroark and Milotic can't be Level Ball'd. I'm not sure it's worth the trade off, but I also don't want to run just a 1/1 Milotic line.
EDIT 2: Massive changes to the list with new knowledge of Suicune V and also realizing that the Inteleon line is absolutely insane and better than Cinccino in many ways.
EDIT 3: Added a list of cards I don't play and why I don't think you play them.
As a bit of a Nessa fan I wanted to play something water (that includes Nessa) that would be at least somewhat decent.
This is something I've been working on that I think could use a few tweaks to reach its max potential.
Pokemon x20
3x Ice Rider Calyrex V (Chilling Reign)
3x Ice Rider Calyrex VMax (Chilling Reign)
2x Suicune V (Evolving Skies)
4x Sobble (Chilling Reign)
4x Drizzile (SwSh Base)
2x Inteleon (SwSh Base)
2x Inteleon (Chilling Reign)
Supporter x12
3x Professor's Research (Shining Fates)
3x Boss's Orders (Rebel Clash)
3x Melony (Chilling Reign)
2x Marnie (SwSh Base)
1x Nessa (Vivid Voltage)
Trainer x18
4x Quick Ball (SwSh Base)
4x Level Ball (Battle Styles)
3x Evolution Incense (SwSh Base)
2x Capacious Bucket (Rebel Clash)
2x Switch (SwSh Base)
2x Air Balloon (SwSh Base)
1x Scoop Up Net (Rebel Clash)
Stadium x2
2x Path to the Peak (Chilling Reign)
Energy x8
8x Water Energy
I'll do the card by card as I always do with my deck lists
3/3 Ice Rider Calyrex Line - Still the deck's primary win condition, however dropped to 3/3 as the need for Ice Rider is not as great with Suicune V in the list as well as the maxed out Inteleon line to search your quick balls and evo incense to basically get you Ice Rider Calyrex incredibly consistently anyway, even at 3/3.
2 Suicune V - I'll be completely honest - I almost want to run this card at 4. Suicune V is a complete monster of a card and honestly the Pokemon I want to start every game. Free draw 1 every turn and an amazing attack with a 220 damage ceiling (280 vs Eternatus VMAX) that can be accelerated in 1 turn with Melony. You will often be able to swing on the first turn of the game for a healthy amount of damage going second with this in the active. The main reason why I abstained is because Sobble has a great going 2nd first turn attack as well. People are probably wondering why I'm doing Suicune V in a deck with Path to the Peak, and that's because I get to choose the timing of when I no longer need or want my ability. I don't have to intentionally hold it to play Crobat V first and draw 1 less card before playing it, or have to play it down and then can't Dedenne GX. And depending on the match up (like the mirror match), I won't even be playing down path to the peak anyway. And when I want to start attacking with Ice Rider VMAX and its no longer in my active, then Path to the Peak doesn't hurt me at all.
4/4/2-2 Inteleon - I'm not sure why I didn't consider this sooner, but this is the best support line up for Ice Rider VMAX. Drizzile and SwSh Base Inteleon searches you every card in your deck. Buckets to search energy, Pokemon search cards, supporters exactly when you need them, Path to the Peak exactly when you need it. Instead of randomly hoping to draw 2 into the outs that you need with the Cinccino engine, just search for them instead. Drizzile and Inteleon can also guarantee that you see quick ball to discard 1 energy to accelerate with Melony while also getting you a basic Pokemon in the process. This deck is monsterously consistent with Inteleon. 4 Drizzile and 4 Level Ball is the equivalent of playing 8 computer search on a stage 1 Pokemon. The Sobble from Chilling Reign also lets you just get all the Sobble in play ASAP, which not only thins your deck but gives you a fantastic going second option.
The SwSh Base Inteleon is also how you survive Decidueye/Altaria match ups. 120 ping 20 to the bench kills 2 Decidueye at once in 2 turns (boss up the bench one with 20 damage, hit it for 120 and ping the previous active for 20 for two 140 damage totals), or you can set up 1 Chilling Reign Inteleon to ping 20 in advance to get the OHKO and string momentum. Against Altaria you just OHKO them every turn and it's basically an auto win.
Additionally, if you are already drawing well or the Drizzile searches are already enough, you can evolve up into the Chilling Reign Inteleon and get everything in range. Chilling Reign Inteleon putting 20-40 damage on something means that you can often just take 2 hit KOs on VMAXes with Ice Rider VMAX's first attack or Suicune V and never have to discard any energy which opens up the ability to play supporters besides Melony or set up back up attackers and get further ahead in momentum. If you can get 2 of them in play, you can just ping a Pokemon V to 80 in 2 turns and deny your opponent from wanting to go VMAX since Lance for 250 would be lethal.
Inteleon is strictly superior to the Cinccino engine I was running before. You get greater concistency, less frail Pokemon on the bench that don't immediately die to one Rapid Strike Urshifu for free, and something that fixes your match up against Decidueye/Altaria while making your already efficient main attackers even more efficient with free bonus damage. An even better upside is the 1 retreat cost. Don't see your primary attacker on turn 1? Attach to Sobble. Next turn, find your Suicune/Ice Rider, attach to that, retreat Sobble to get energy in discard, evolve into Drizzile, search for Melony, Melony onto Suicune/Ice Rider. Draw 2 cards doesn't come close to all of that.
3x Professor's Research - Dropped to 3 for more Melony. I also don't feel the urge for 4 of them when you can't play a supporter going first turn 1 anymore, and Melony is always the ideal supporter going second turn 1 anyway. You still want lots of Research as this deck doesn't have good draw power outside of it.
3x Boss's Orders - I play 3 of whatever gust supporter is around in every deck. I find it to be the most successful ratio. Despite being searchable with Drizzile/Inteleon, I still want 3 because I want to boss 3 times per game, not 2. Sometimes bossing the 1 prize basic support Pokemon before it evolves is the best play.
3x Melony - And you don't need 4. Inteleon based lists can guarantee the Melony when you need it, and extra 20-40 damage for free every turn means you should only ever need to Melony once in a good game since you can claim 2 hit KOs on VMAX and OHKOs on Vs without discarding.
2x Marnie - The way this list runs means I have the ability to play Marnie when I have to since you don't need to Melony more than 2 times in any game. A staple I was sorely missing in my previous list.
1x Nessa - Nessa unironically is good in this list. You can Research hands without regret and are often going to be finding yourself researching away VMAXes and Inteleons and Drizziles in order to find a play. Nessa lets you do that without cornering yourself. Mid to late game your discard pile just becomes a second deck. Searchable so you can get her when you need her.
4x Quick Ball - A staple
4x Level Ball - Searches Sobble and Drizzile, which leads to Drizzile searching anything else that you need. Level Ball is fundamentally a card that says "search for anything in your deck." Every trainer card in this deck searches for every other piece of my deck.
3x Evo Incense - Searches Drizzile, Inteleon, and the VMAX. Despite the fact that Evo Incense searches more cards in your deck than either Quick Ball or Level Ball, the fact of the matter is that you have more time to see your evolutions than you do your basics. You want to get the setup rolling and a full 4 Evo Incense was getting a bit cloggy.
2x Capacious Bucket - Now that this is a pure Melony list with no more Frosmoth and the card is searchable, just 2 is fine now. I want 2 so that I can search it twice throughout games for an energy fix.
2x Switch - Standard retreat option ratios. Don't need more with Inteleon engine.
2x Air Balloon - Everything in this deck is 2 retreat or lower. No matter what active I start I'm fine.
1x Scoop Up Net - A great utility card. It acts as a switch card for any of your Sobble evolutions and offers the ability to replay searches. If you have a Sobble and Drizzile and Inteleon in play, you can scoop up the inteleon and immediately replay the drizzile and inteleon. It gives the deck a massive power play turn to shift tempo in your favor. Additionally, you can swap out Inteleons between shady dealings and quick shooting depending on which one you need more at the time.
2x Path to the Peak - My deck doesn't rely on rule box abilities. This helps me against Shadow Rider Calyrex, another out to Zamazenta V, Glaceon VMAX if people play it, Crobat V, you name it. Only ran at 2 because it's not all that great versus a lot of decks, and it's searchable with Drizzile and Inteleon. Urshifu VMAX doesn't care, you don't actually want to use it against Eternatus VMAX unless they outspeed you since you benefit from their bench size as well and Melony means you'll be attacking sooner than them. Right now, Shadow Rider Calyrex VMAX is the biggest card I'd be worried about, and then Umbreon VMAX once people realize that Gengar VMAX/Umbreon VMAX is a tier 1 deck and have access to it. A lot of the best Pokemon abilities are on 1 prize Pokemon nowadays, so this card is not as good as everyone thinks it is after rotation.
8x Water Energy - Just need around the standard 8 to see energy often enough when you need it.
Considered Cards
Here are some cards I've thought of or seen in lists over in Japan but don't see myself running.
Froslass (1/1 or 2/2) - Froslass I think is simply unneeded, and getting good ratios for this Pokemon is very unideal. If you run a 1/1 line you risk prizing either piece and you likely are not getting it when you actually need it. As far as my deck would be concerned, I'd be Drizzile/Inteleon searching for quick and level balls to set up a Snorunt instead of a Suicune V or Ice Rider V/VMAX which doesn't seem correct. If you run a 2/2 line to see it more often, you're clogging 4 spaces of your deck to an effect you can get off of Melony and you're probably better off just running 4 Melony instead of 3 at that point.
The other part of it is bench real estate. In ideal game states, I have 4 Sobble/Drizzile/Inteleon in play with either Ice Rider VMAX + a back up Ice Rider or Ice Rider VMAX + Suicune V, or if I'm feeling really spicy, double Suicune V. Those are the 6 Pokemon I want in play at all times. Since you always need to keep your momentum with a back up attacker, in order to play down a Froslass you must cut into the number of Sobble. One less Inteleon line means that you are searching 3 less cards, or searching 1 less card and losing 20 free damage every turn just to accelerate 1 energy. This creates an inherent contradiction with this list because the whole point of my deck is that I'm Max Lancing no more than twice in a game. I'm taking constant 2 hit KOs with Ice Rider VMAX's first attack and/or Suicune V with Inteleon pinging damage every turn to fix my math for if my opponent tries to play around me by limiting their bench. Running Froslass means you intend on spamming Max Lance. That's not what my deck wants to do.
The final issue with Froslass, as well as Frosmoth and Cinccino, is the 90 HP. Remember that this is a post rotation list. I'm making some bold guesses as to what the meta will look like, but in a world where Rapid Strike Urshifu is very popular because of Gengar VMAX completely countering Shadow Rider Calyrex, you do not want 120 HP or lower bench sitters. Rapid Strike Urshifu can take a 4 prize turn by rapid flowing Ice Rider VMAX and your Froslass/Frosmoth/Cinccino. You basically lose the game at that point. Inteleon being 150 or 160 HP is incredibly important to not giving free avenues to Rapid Strike Urshifu.
Cheryl (1) - A card that you can only play in Froslass builds or Frosmoth builds. People tend to read Max Lance, not read the fact that the first attack is Zoroark GX but better, and just think to themselves "hey, you'll have 0 energy anyway which means you can play Cheryl!"
Why I don't buy into this statement is because Ice Rider is an agro deck, not a stall or control deck. The deck doesn't gain anything from playing Cheryl, attaching for turn, then passing. Ice Rider is threatening because of the fact that it can just Melony and attach at any point in the game and immediately push for 130 or more damage. Stalling only gives set up style decks like Eternatus and Shadow Rider more time to establish their perfect scenario. So if you're gonna go Cheryl, at least play it with Froslass so you can heal without giving up aggression. However, Cheryl + Froslass still makes you lose hand advantage by not drawing with Marnie/Melony/Research and not searching with Drizzile/Inteleon though, so I still think it's just incorrect.
EDIT: I know about the new Milotic as anti-Marnie tech, and I am thinking about doing an Eevee Heroes Zoroark strategy so I can run Frosmoth, Cinccino, and Milotic via Zoroark's ability. It would look something like 4/4 Zoroark, 2 Frosmoth, 2 Cinccino, 1 Milotic, and Evolution Incense would go to 4 and Level Ball would drop to 2 since Zoroark and Milotic can't be Level Ball'd. I'm not sure it's worth the trade off, but I also don't want to run just a 1/1 Milotic line.
EDIT 2: Massive changes to the list with new knowledge of Suicune V and also realizing that the Inteleon line is absolutely insane and better than Cinccino in many ways.
EDIT 3: Added a list of cards I don't play and why I don't think you play them.
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