Alt. Format Post-Rotation Naganadel/Stakataka Beast Box

[jo94]

EDITED

Pokemon (15)
4 Poipole FOL 55/131
3 Naganadel GX FOL 56/131
4 Stakataka GX CES 60/?

Spoiler

Stakataka GX - Metal - 180 HP

Pokemon - Basic

Ability: Ultra Wall

Your 'Ultra Beast' Pokemon get 10 less damage from opponent's Pokemon's attacks.

MMC Gigaton Stamp 120

MMC Ray GX 50+

This attack does 50 more damage for each prize card you have already taken.

Weakness: Fire
Resistance: Psychic
Retreat: 3

1 Dusk mane necrozma GX (UPR)
2 Oranguru SM 113/149
1 Tapu Lele GX GUR 60/145

Trainer Cards (34)
3 Guzma
4 Cynthia
3 Sightseer

Spoiler

Sightseer – Trainer
Supporter

Draw cards from your deck until you have 5 cards in your hand. Before drawing, you may discard any number of cards from your hand.

You may play only 1 Supporter card during your turn (before your attack).

1 Lillie
2 Switch
4 Choice Band
4 Ultraspace
4 Ultra Ball
3 Beast Ring
3 Max potion
1 Field Blower
1 Rescue Stretcher
1 Energy Recycle System

Spoiler

Energy Recycle System

Trainer - Item

Either put 1 basic Energy card from your discard pile into your hand or shuffle 3 basic Energy cards from your discard pile into your deck.

Energy Cards (11)
1 Beast Energy *
10 Metal Energy


The strategy of the deck is to bench as much UB as you can and start hitting 2hko with naganadel, while putting stakataka on the bench in order to increase naganadel hps, forcing your opponent on a 2hko game, abusing max potion.

No need for minor ball to replace bridgette because you have the amazing ultraspace. I prefer switch over escape board since stakataka has a 3 energy retreat cost.

There are 2 oranguru just to be sure that you have not it in the prizes, but you may want to bench just one (it also helps against hoopa).

Beast rings are there to load stakataka or naganadel's GX attack (useful against 1 prize decks, or when you are behind due to a slow setup, which is almost impossible since the deck is prettyy consistent).

It has favorable match up against both buzzwole and malamar/necrozma (ohko with weakness), and all the decks that cannot hit for weakness will struggle to hit 230/240 (with 2 or 3 benched stakataka). The only only really bad match up is against rayquaza gx (no ceiling to the damage) and decks with sceptile (that is an ultrabeast shield). It should have an even match up against zoroark variants.

I'm not really sure about max potion, maybe it could be used Acerola instead.

 

[Gameguard]

Frying pans would help alot I think. Putting on trump's wall to prevent damage to then on bench

 

[Dark Espeon]

Hi jo94,

Nice deck. Consider these modifications:

Pokémon:
- 2 Oranguru (does not work that well with Naganadel GX since it reduces the damage output)
+ 1 Celesteela SM7 (nice non-GX attacker similar to Buzzwole non-GX)
+ 1 Dusk Mane Necrozma (nice non-GX attacker to clean house)

Trainer:
- 3 Max Potion (does not heal enough to be relevant and the deck should go pure aggression with some bulk provided by Stakataka GX)
+ 2 Ultra Recon Squad (awesome draw trainer in this deck in a SM-on format)
+ 1 Beast Ring (helps a lot to fuel Stakataka GX and Dusk Mane Necrozma)

The rest looks fine to me. Hope this provides some initial assistance.

 

[jo94]

Thanks for the advices, I'm going to keep oranguru, i've tested beast box a lot and it works very well, i agree with you on max potion and dusk mane (or celesteela). I do not like ultra recon squad.

 

[Merovingian]

I’ve been working a bit with Stakataka Naganadel.

If you are going this route, you ABSOLUTELY NEED 4 Stakataka. Having 4 out messes with damage numbers so much (Forces Dawn Wings to use a Choice Band to OHKO Naganadel. Can force 3HKOs in certain matchups).

Tried Kartana GX, not a fan. Maybe baby dusk Mane?

You can probably drop the Energy from 10 to 9, but 9 is as low as I’d go with it. But since you’re using Max Potion, 10 probably works better.

Maybe Super Scoop Up instead of Switch

 

[jo94]

Probably you're right, i'll fix the list. Anyway I won't have the space for putting in play 4 stakataka, since one needs 2 nagas in play to use max potion strategy, and one bench space is for lele/oranguru usually

 

[Duo]

Has Acerola been playtested in place of Max Potion? I know it takes up your supporter for turn, but it lets you keep your cards, namely your Beast Energy, and you won't be constantly sending energy to discard.

Acerola also allows you to reconfigure your bench space in case you want to add or remove Stakatakas.

If nothing else, playing 3 Acerola instead of 3 Max Potion will allow you to drop your energy counts by 1 or 2, and you probably won't need energy recycle system anymore, either.

As long as you keep an unevolved Poipole on the bench at all times, you won't be slowing your momentum at all. It's basically Golisopod GX's strategy, but with a different requirement for hitting 120 damage.

I don't think Frying Pan should be played in the deck. It sounds good, but you're going to be attacking with Naganadel most of the time, unless you get Beast Ring going. Not much point in having a Frying Pan sitting on a passive Stakataka GX in the back row that no one is going to Guzma up to KO anyway with a Naganadel applying all the damage in the active.

I would rather run Weakness Policy over Frying Pan since Weakness Policy will prevent your Naganadels from getting OHKO'd in the mirror (6 ultra beasts in play + choice band or beast energy = 150 damage, even with 4 Stakataka that's 110 x 2 for 220 damage, OHKO). Weakness Policy also helps Stakataka GX not get OHKO'd by fire. Even a Choice Banded Ho-Oh GX can't OHKO Stakataka GX on weakness policy with 4 of them set up. Basically, Weakness Policy helps out both your Naganadel and your Stakataka while Frying Pan only helps out Stakataka. (But then again, the odds of you having a Weakness Policy on all 4 Stakataka GX is pretty low so...I guess this argument is invalid.)

 

[jo94]

I haven't tested acerola, since I didn't want to use my supporter for the turn, but it is more effective than max potion, or at list less cluncky. I've also thought about super scoop up, but coinflip is a pain.

 

[XXXXXXXXXXXXXX]

What about bodybuilding dumbbells. That would give Naganadel 250 HP

 

[Merovingian]

What about bodybuilding dumbbells. That would give Naganadel 250 HP

You could, but Dumbbells is bad against mirror and Dawn Wings.

You need. Choice Band more for KO potential

 

[TuxedoBlack]

From my experience, I'd prefer running a 4th Guzma over the 2nd Switch.

 

[jo94]

Or one tate and liza, to have options

 

[Merovingian]

Or one tate and liza, to have options

You could. Try it out.

I will say that I haven’t found much use for Tate & Liza and found Guzma to be a better choice. If you use the draw option, you might as well be running Judge.

 

[Duo]

I've been thinking about this list for a bit today and decided that it could highly benefit from Dusk Mane Necrozma GX.

Dusk Mane Necrozma GX is the perfect revenge killer in the mirror match. If your opponent gets an early 2-3 prizes on you, you can immediately accelerate one in two turns (attach, beast ring + attach), or potentially in just one turn (beast ring x2). The 220 base damage with a choice band ups Dusk Mane Necrozma GX's damage to 250, and even with 4 Stakataka GX in play, that will still be an OHKO on Naganadel GX.

When you combine this damage with Naganadel GX's GX attack to force your opponent into having 3 prizes remaining, you can keep Beast Ring live for a lot longer than just chucking it into a different Ultra Beast list, like Buzzwole GX for example. This is very viable for if your opponent gets ahead (say the prize differential is 2 to 4 and your opponent only needs one more KO), and you can use the GX attack to even the playing ground as well as power through with Dusk Mane Necrozma GX.

At the same time, neither Naganadel GX nor Stakataka GX can return an OHKO on Dusk Mane Necrozma GX, which means that with your opponent at 3 prizes, you have the opportunity to steal the game with 2 quick KOs on a Beast Ring fueled Dusk Mane Necrozma GX.

The mirror match between Naganadel GX/Stakataka GX is actually very technical.

I'm currently looking at the following list:

Pokemon x14

Naganadel GX x3
Poipole x4
Stakataka GX x4
Dusk Mane Necrozma GX x2
Dusk Mane Necrozma Promo x1

Supporter x11

Cynthia x4
Sightseer x4
Guzma x3

Item x20

Mysterious Treasure x4
Choice Band x4
Beast Ring x4
Nest Ball x3
Switch x3
Energy Recycle System x2
Rescue Stretcher x1

Stadium x3

Ultra Space x3

Energy x11

Metal Energy x10
Beast Energy Prism Star x1

I'm taking a different route in a couple of aspects.

For starters, I'm not playing Lele which means I'm not playing 1 copy of Lillie. I'm never going to see 1 copy of Lillie without Lele. I want a pure UB bench every game, so I'm only playing Ultra Beasts.

I'm combining Nest Ball with Mysterious Treasure and Ultra Space to find my Pokemon. Mysterious Treasure searches out the Naganadel line at half the discard cost of Ultra Ball, and the once per turn Ultra Space and Nest Balls should help me find my Stakataka GX. Between 4 copies of Stakataka GX, 3 copies of Nest Ball, and 3 copies of Ultra Space, that's 10 ways of finding Stakataka GX or Poipole, and Ultra Space will likely have longevity for a couple turns. Most decks only run 8 ways of finding their Pokemon (4x Pokemon, 4x Ultra Ball), so having 10 ways instead of 8 is incredibly likely odds. Ultra Space can also, of course, be used to find Poipole and Naganadel GX on top of Mysterious Treasure. Even if you wanted to play 2 Ultra Ball in one turn to fill your bench with Ultra Beasts for Naganadel GX, your hand isn't going to survive playing 2 cards and discarding 4, whereas you could very much play two Mysterious Treasure for two Poipole to fill your bench for Naganadel GX damage and get your basics in play.

Any excess Ultra Spaces, Nest Balls, or Mysterious Treasures that don't get used can just get discard with Sightseer (or Mysterious Treasure). Very simple.

I know this sounds like a stupid idea, but I'm mostly proposing it as a means of saying "Hey, 4x Ultra Ball isn't a mandatory staple anymore, especially if you're playing Psychic or Dragon."

I'm running 2 copies of Dusk Mane Necrozma GX because it's not a tech card - it's a primary strategy and incredibly easy access for this deck to hit 250 damage. Between the big damage it can put out and equalizing disadvantageous games where your opponent takes early prize leads (like against Fire decks) and simply needing to hit 220-250 on Stage 1s and Stage 2s, 2 copies prevents this from being prized when you need it.

We still need 1 copy of the Dusk Mane Necrozma Promo since it is a non-GX attacker and is very relevant thanks to Nagandel's GX attack putting both players to 3 prizes. It's going to come down to 1 prize remaining most games after a GX knockout for the 2nd attack to hit 200. Sitting at 130 HP is also perfect for not getting OHKO'd by Naganadel GX or Stakataka GX (or Zoroark GX or Golisopod GX), unless Beast Energy.

Now that I am using this as a strategy, I am very much interested in maxing out on Beast Rings. Dusk Mane Necrozma GX can't function without it, and everything else in this deck attacks for a max of 3 energy (1 attach for turn, 1 beast ring).

This deck will run into energy problems with an 11 energy pool and no restoration, especially with a Beast Ring oriented strategy. Naganadel GX needs 3 energy to GX, then Dusk Mane Necrozma GX needs at least 4 to attack once. That's 7 out of your 11 energy cards, so I think 2 copies of Energy Recycle System are needed and not just one, if not just for doubling the odds of seeing it in any given game. I'm thinking if these Energy Recycle Systems should just be straight up Energy Recyclers instead as well.

I'm willing to drop Ultra Space to 3 because in the mirror match, I don't want to improve my opponent's set up if I'm behind. That's another reason why I'm running Nest Ball.

Anyway, just figured I'd share my thoughts about the deck. Please feel free to add to or take away from my changes.

 

[jo94]

Actually the first draft of my list was with 2 dusk mane gx and more energies. Then I decided to move to a 2hko strategy. I'm going to tech a DM gx anyeay, because as you said it could be Very useful in mirror matches

 

[Wechselbalg]

I see only Dark Espeon has mentioned the new Celesteela which should be a staple in every aggro deck that uses metal energy.

 

[Merovingian]

I see only Dark Espeon has mentioned the new Celesteela which should be a staple in every aggro deck that uses metal energy.

If you have a more “toolbox build” baby Celesteela is doable.

If you have a min/max build, Celesteela is super risky.

I’ve taken Lele and other cute techs out of my build because it really sucks having to start with them and they aren’t necessary

 

[Duo]

I don't see why the new Celesteela is a "staple" in agro metal.

It only works with a 6 prize total, so in terms of Naganadel GX decks, if you GX attack, you only get 1 good KO with it, and then it's just low HP prize fodder on your bench that your opponent could go for to win the game, since 3 prizes for both players is 1 GX and 1 non-GX KO. Your opponent could also just take prizes from you before you even get a KO from it and waste your time.

It's absolutely useless anytime outside of the 6 prize total, and when you end up starting games with Celesteela in the active, good luck getting anything done. In the mirror match, 160/190 damage choice banded is not going to take any OHKOs with Stakataka GX in play. Celesteela only covers basic GXs, but Dusk Mane Necrozma GX & non-GX covers everything.

Just as an aside, I'm very obsessed with the mirror match right now because I really don't see any deck that can consistently give this one a run for its money other than itself. Decks involving the New Solgaleo GX are too slow in set up to keep up, and Cosmogs are weak to Psychic making set up even harder. If Fairy decks take an early lead, Beast Ring onto Stakataka GX and proceed to OHKO all Fairy Pokemon ever printed so far. Golisopod/Zoroark can't keep up in damage with Stakataka GX in play. Magcargo GX/Magcargo can easily be shut down by OHKOing the non-GX Magcargo and killing its energy supply, then GXing with Naganadel to compensate for any prize leads.

I don't want to make the pre-emptive BDIF call, but I do want to say that winning the mirror match with this deck should be in the interest of everyone who wants to play this deck, and Celesteela is not your card for doing that.

 

[Merovingian]

I don't see why the new Celesteela is a "staple" in agro metal.

Not going to lie, 160 for M is really appealing. Especially when a Choice Band can hit that weird and magical 190. Beast Energy can push that to a whopping 220. That's pretty much everything except....Greninja, Gardevoir, and Shiftry. That said, GETTING to 6 prizes to do it is SUPER conditional. If you can navigate the game in a way where you can cut prizes down to make an even 6 and ensure that your opponent can't disrupt the perfect balance (as all things should be) BEFORE you can throw down Celesteela, then you got something. But if you can surgically cut your way through a match like that, you probably don't even need it. It seems like the card relies more on dumb luck and opportunity. "OH LOOK! 6 PRIZES! HURR DURR!"

It only works with a 6 prize total, so in terms of Naganadel GX decks, if you GX attack, you only get 1 good KO with it, and then it's just low HP prize fodder on your bench that your opponent could go for to win the game, since 3 prizes for both players is 1 GX and 1 non-GX KO. Your opponent could also just take prizes from you before you even get a KO from it and waste your time.

In the mirror, if they are using baby Dusk Mane, they'll just offset the prizes and Guzma into baby Celesteela for easy sniping capability to the GXs that are stuck on the bench. Forces a Guzma play on their end because that 4 retreat cost means it's going nooooooooowhere!

Just as an aside, I'm very obsessed with the mirror match right now

Now, we're talkin'!

I really don't see any deck that can consistently give this one a run for its money other than itself. Decks involving the New Solgaleo GX are too slow in set up to keep up, and Cosmogs are weak to Psychic making set up even harder. If Fairy decks take an early lead, Beast Ring onto Stakataka GX and proceed to OHKO all Fairy Pokemon ever printed so far. Golisopod/Zoroark can't keep up in damage with Stakataka GX in play. Magcargo GX/Magcargo can easily be shut down by OHKOing the non-GX Magcargo and killing its energy supply, then GXing with Naganadel to compensate for any prize leads.

I think Zoroark decks can trade blows evenly as Naganadel and it do the same amount of damage and will have to 2HKO each other. I think for Zoroark matchups, it depends on what "partner" they are paired with and how much recovery Zoroark has (Acerola, namely). At least, when the format starts, I think it's better to prepare for a more Zoroark-heavy meta because of how incredibly consistent it is, that and you can at least give yourself a better matchup percentage against Zoroark than you can again Malamar.

I think that if we get a Dragon-type Naganadel GX that is the exact same as the Forbidden Light version and has a NON-PSYCHIC WEAKNESS in the Dragons Majesty box, it'll provide a better matchup against Malamar and add a layer of depth in the mirror match.

I HIGHLY doubt Gardevoir as a standalone deck will flourish when the format starts. I can see Zoroark / Gardy and Sylveon / Zoroark being tinkered around with and that REALLY depends on if Malamar is going to be a big thing. I'm starting to have my doubts on that as, at this point, there's not much of a way to solve it's consistency issues. That said, it has solutions for a lot of its other issues (retreating and secondary attacker, namely), but the consistency problem will bury it. and should put it on the fence of tier-1 and tier-2.

I can see Golisopod / Zoroark being a close one because that deck packs more recovery than normal and has the ability to stretch the game out for longer than what Naganadel wants to do.

If we are talking Naganadel mirror. God, it's weird.

I've been using my own version of Naganadel / Stakataka and it seems like one big game of "chicken". Because of the Psychic weakness, it doesn't make sense to go into a Naganadel right off the bat (unless they start Stakataka) as you're going to take an early KO to their Naganadel and put yourself at a disadvantage. It's one of the only matches where attacking with Poipole makes sense and starting with Stakataka isn't really that bad. The big goal is to HAVE and GET all 4 Stakataka out ASAP, If you have or can only get out 3 or less, a Naganadel can KO your Naganadel. If you have 4 Stakataka, it forces them to commit a Choice Band or Beast Energy. Sure, we are talking about 3-5 outs that they need to have, but you REALLY need to throw early speedbumps at your opponent, and if they somehow cannot capitalize on it and leave you at 10 HP, that's blood in the water on their end. Make them pay.

If you get to attack into a Poipole with your Poipole, use Spit Poison. This way, the 4 Stakataka strategy will not work for them (at least for that Poipole/Naganadel) and gives you a little breathing room if it happens to turn into a Naganadel later.

This is also the only match I have seen where you would even CONSIDER Stinger GX. Partially because getting Assembly GX to OHKO a Naganadel with multiple Stakataka on their bench means you need to be up 4 prizes to do it. You can do it with 3 Prizes and a Choice Band if they have 2 or less out.
Because it's a big GX KO-fest, forcing a 7 prize game may not be a bad idea, but you'll only ensure SOME survivability if you Guzma into a bare Stakataka. This also will only work best if you don't have another Naganadel/Poipole on your bench to try and get an easy KO. At least that way, unless they Acerola/Switch/Escape Rope (cards I'm not counting on being in numerous amounts), Guzma won't help them and you might be able to KO a Stakataka and put yourself ahead.

It's a weird one.

It's probably the only match where the deck (depending on the setup) plays defensively until someone starts swinging big and then it starts playing normally.

Once it gets going, the mirror goes hellishly fast. Do your best to keep up.

I don't want to make the pre-emptive BDIF call, but I do want to say that winning the mirror match with this deck should be in the interest of everyone who wants to play this deck, and Celesteela is not your card for doing that.

I think the BDIF is between Stakataka / Naganadel, VikaBulu and Zoroark variants, and Zoroark. It's literally rock-paper-scissors all over again.

Bulu beats Zoroark
Zoroark (COULD) beat Stakataka Naganadel
Stakataka Naganadel beast Bulu.

Malamar is sort of an outlier that can beat Naganadel Stakataka, but Bulu and Zoroark can beat it. So, theres that.[/QUOTE]

 

[Duo]

If a Dragon type Nagandel GX is released and assuming Fairy weakness, I would definitely play a 2/2 split, because if Naganadel GX takes up a big portion of the format, then that just makes Fairy even better.

I still think that Gardy/Sylveon/Zoroark isn't a deck to just be put under the rug. It has the speed to access its stage 1s for early 2 hit KOs and the ceiling with Gardevoir GX to access OHKOs or clean up awkward HP values when needed. I've also ended up simply using Gardy just for the ability to accelerate Sylveon or Zoroark.

Zoroark GX is a very consistent, but Sylveon GX is even moreso. Magical Ribbon just straight up guarantees how your game will progress, and swinging for 110/140 choice banded is a 2 hit KO on anything in the game. I'm actually very looking forward to playtesting Gardy/Sylveon/Zoroark vs. Naganadel/Stakataka, because despite the fairy vs steel match up, I think it's still a winnable encounter.

Anyway, sorry to get a bit off topic. I'm just glad that a deck like this is Tier 1 material and not item-lock/ability-lock, sit there and watch your opponent do nothing as you win format.