Standard Post Rotation Volcanion (BKT-BUS)

[TuxedoBlack]

I only run three ultra balls because Brooklet hill can get out most of what you want early game (except Ho-Oh/Turt.)

The 4th Ultra Ball I use to enhance/maximize my consistency in getting the Pokémon (e.g., Tapu Lele GX early game) when needed. Brooklet Hill I deem too 1-sided in that in can only get Volcanion EXs and/or other Water-type Pokémon (e.g., Staryu). I prefer other Stadiums that are more versatile.

Why would Acerola be good in this deck? It seems counterproductive with Kiawe and Power Heater.

Acerola can be used to remove unwanted/unneeded Pokémon from my field (active or bench) or a likely Guzma target for a subsequent KO. Acerola can help deny my opponent prize(s), un-clutter the bench, save a wounded Pokémon and/or remove my Guzma'd Pokémon the opponent might use a "wall."

I tested Parallel City for a bit, and my win rate saw a significant drop. [-9% in 10 games] I wasn't hitting the right numbers with the -20, and I was never in a scenario where limiting my bench was useful.

This Stadium, no doubt, is quite situational and may not suit the deck strategy well. But, it can also be very useful to help disrupt an opponent's bench or limit one's bench size perhaps removing multiple wounded Pokémon from your bench.

 

[Cobrafilms]

Don't know if anyone ever answered this for you, but all effects of that nature on your Active Pokémon are reset whenever you retreat or switch out to the Bench. 100%. Kind of alarming that there are judges and professors out there who don't know that. If you're not sure about any rulings, you can always ask in the Competitive forum I believe.



What does that equate to, one game? I don't think your sample size is large enough to draw any conclusions. Apparently Parallel City is a thing in this deck, but I haven't personally played with it, so I can't defend it.

How would you know what "that equates to?" You don't know how many games I've played prior to the parallel testing, and It's a percentage.

 

[Cobrafilms]

Guys, make sure to look at the most updated, and hopefully improved, list before commenting!

 

[Ecourts]

Volcanion player here, just wanted to share a bit of my opinion, and maybe answer some questions~

Skyla won't be as effective without VS Seeker, though.

Honestly, I really like Skyla in this deck.

I have added a copy of Skyla that has been excellent in combination with Lele and VS Seeker to a clutch search for the Items (and Stadiums, if required). Sometimes that non-Supporter tutor is critical for certain match-ups (e.g. Field Blower vs. Garb, Choice Band vs. ) or guarantees that you find the Switch effect you need without the risk of not drawing into it with Sycamore or N.

This is why~
Skyla is a great tutor card, and sometimes, Volcanion needs specific options.
High retreat costs + high attack costs... can get you into some sticky situations.
Skyla into Field Blower has won me games; Garbotoxin makes Drampa-GX much harder to KO.

I'm still on the fence about Choice Band versus Fighting Fury Belt myself. I encountered more shorted in damage for 1HKO then +40 didn't help keep Turt or Volc up an extra turn.

I personally prefer Fighting Fury Belt, as it's more beneficial in the current meta.
The HP matters a lot on the Volcanion cards,
turning the non-EX's 130HP into 170HP.
and the EX's 180HP into 220HP.
This allows it to live Berserk attacks from Choice Band Drampa-GX.

The +10 damage is also very beneficial, and because of steam-up, you often don't need +30 from Choice Band.

a prime example is Turtonator-GX, who can OHKO Tapu Lele, as the belt makes it deal exactly 170 damage.

Ho-oh GX seems great for this deck. One extra energy for 20-50 more damage is well worth it. See Kiawe. I think he straight up replaces a Turtonator GX but I would like to see if we need that 2nd copy. GX attack seems a bit hyped but it could help in a pinch to get Turt or Volc EX back.

Now... again, this is just my opinion, but...
I actually don't like Ho-Oh-GX.

My reasoning is:
Ho-Oh does not synergize with the deck, outside of "doing damage."
It's GX attack is extremely lackluster, and I don't see myself ever needing that option.
On top of that... it does nothing on it's own.
If you miss your Kiawe early, Ho-Oh-GX is much harder to set up.

If a Volcanion-EX isn't set-up, it can still contribute with Steam-Up.
If Turtonator-EX isn't set-up, it can Nitro Tank GX, or Shell Trap to stall.

Even though you can access Ho-Oh's 180 damage through Kiawe... I'd rather Kiawe a Turtonator-GX.

Turtonator-GX, with 4 energy, can do 160 damage in back-to-back turns... while placing energy in the discard, that Turtonator-GX can set-up later.

Turn1: Kiawe Turtonator-GX.
Turn2: Attach energy, attack for 160. Now at 3 energy.
Turn3: Attach energy, attack for 160. Now at 2 energy.
Turn4: Attach energy, attack for 160. Now at 1 energy.

Even if you miss an attachment, you can Nitro Tank GX or Shell Trap... and to me, those are just better options.

You OHKO nearly everything with one steam-up, outside of Espeon/Umbreon-GX... which will die if you have Fighting Fury Belt.

Relying heavily on Kiawe takes away from your deck's consistency.

Four (4) copies of Tapu Lele seems necessary, ~54% chance (edit) of the turn 1 Kiawe with 4 Lele and 2 Kiawe, but I am hoping we can get away with 3 after we see how it plays out. Right now with VS Seeker I am often annoyed when I draw my 2nd copy. Also, she works with the Parallel City, too, since we could drop down some empty Leles from the bench.

It forces you to run more Lele's, or more Ultra Balls, etc.
and is a lot less powerful, if you're not going first.
Even if you do it Turn1, but you went second, you're setting up one Pokemon...
While your opponent has had two turns to set-up his.

Remember, most attackers in the meta only require 2 attachments.
This means, that your opponent may already be set-up, while you may not have had the chance to say...
fix your dead hand, or search for a tool card, because you needed/wanted the turn1 Kiawe.

Especially if you had to Ultra Ball for Lele, this could place you in a very bad position from the start.

You'd give up your supporter, your attacking advantage for going second, and are challenging your opponent to outpace you.

This can work, but is risky at high-level play.

I forgot to ask what people think of Max Elixir.

I currently run 2 Max Elixirs, but I'll have to do some testing post-rotation to see if it's necessary~
I've gotten a few wins off them myself~
ex. Olympia into Staryu, attach energy, elixir, retreat into attacker~
(This is also why the free retreat Staryu is nice to have)

Why would Acerola be good in this deck? It seems counterproductive with Kiawe and Power Heater.

I'm eager to try out Acerola, as a lot of times, you get swapped into a Volcanion and your opponent tries to chip away at you... since you have 3 retreat cost, sometimes... this works.

Also good vs spread decks like Ninetales~
Not saying it's necessary, but... maybe something worth trying!

I run no Brooklet Hill Stadiums since I find this Stadium too "limited" since it only serves the purpose of getting the Volcanion EXs into play easily. I prefer to run Altar of the Sunne and Parallel City given their respective versatility.

I'd argue that Altar of Sunne is far more linear, and is a dead card vs Metagross-GX.
Volcanion-EX makes the deck work, this is why we run Brooklet hill.
Getting the Staryu (for retreat shenanigans, and so we can evolve it sooner), and the Volcanion-EXs down early are a priority.
You need the Volcanion-EX's in play to start setting up, because:

• It puts your energy in the discard, so you can accelerate it.
• It gives you something to accelerate to.
• It gives you the damage you need, so you can fight back, while setting up.

Also, once you have them down, it's alternative purpose is to snuff out opposing stadiums~
Since you don't really need the card, it's a risk free play.

But, don't forget that you can use Pokemon Stretcher, to shuffle your Volcanion-EX(s) back in, and then use Brooklet Hill to get them out!~

It can also be Ultra Ball/Space Beacon fodder... while not adding in items for Trashalanche.
Trashalanche is also the reason why this card is so good; as we can search for Volcanion-EX, without feeding the beast.

I only run three ultra balls because Brooklet hill can get out most of what you want early game (except Ho-Oh/Turt.)

There's actually another neat tech I'd like to go over...
Ninja Boy.

I feel like most people forgot about this card, but I really like it!
There are a lot of interesting tricks you can pull off with this~

Like:
Active Turtonator-GX | Attacks for 160; discards 2 energy, 1 energy left attached.
Next turn: Ninja Boy into baby Volcanion | Attacks with Power Heater; attaches the 2 energy.

Or:
Active Volcanion-EX | Steam-Up, Ninja Boy into baby Volcanion, Brooklet Hill your Volcanion-EX back... Steam-Up again!
2 Steam-Ups, with only one Volcanion left in the deck~

I've also had someone Lysandre my Volcanion-EX, trying to force a 2HKO with their Lele, knowing they'd survive the Volcanic Heat (Garbotoxin was in play), but... I Ninja Boy'd into my Turtonator and OHKO'd them~

You could also Ninja Boy into a Staryu, and retreat, but... that only works if you haven't take damage.

ANYWAYS, giant wall of text aside...
I really like this deck~

Hope my rant was able to spark some new thoughts for you guys!

 

[Mora]

How would you know what "that equates to?" You don't know how many games I've played prior to the parallel testing, and It's a percentage.

I don't; that's why I'm asking. Because I'm concerned about your sample size. What can I say, I like stats.

Guys, make sure to look at the most updated, and hopefully improved, list before commenting!

My bad didn't see that at first. Maybe you could update the OP? Just a friendly suggestion.

 

[Cobrafilms]

I don't; that's why I'm asking. Because I'm concerned about your sample size. What can I say, I like stats.

I played 10 games and lost 4, which was lower than my usual win rate. Also, statistics aren't the only thing that matters; the deck just didn't run as smoothly as I'd like.

 

[Mora]

I played 10 games and lost 4, which was lower than my usual win rate. Also, statistics aren't the only thing that matters; the deck just didn't run as smoothly as I'd like.

Thanks for the clarification. I was just personally curious. Sorry if I put you on the defensive. Play what feels right to you!

 

[Cobrafilms]

Volcanion player here, just wanted to share a bit of my opinion, and maybe answer some questions~



Honestly, I really like Skyla in this deck.



This is why~
Skyla is a great tutor card, and sometimes, Volcanion needs specific options.
High retreat costs + high attack costs... can get you into some sticky situations.
Skyla into Field Blower has won me games; Garbotoxin makes Drampa-GX much harder to KO.



I personally prefer Fighting Fury Belt, as it's more beneficial in the current meta.
The HP matters a lot on the Volcanion cards,
turning the non-EX's 130HP into 170HP.
and the EX's 180HP into 220HP.
This allows it to live Berserk attacks from Choice Band Drampa-GX.

The +10 damage is also very beneficial, and because of steam-up, you often don't need +30 from Choice Band.

a prime example is Turtonator-GX, who can OHKO Tapu Lele, as the belt makes it deal exactly 170 damage.



Now... again, this is just my opinion, but...
I actually don't like Ho-Oh-GX.

My reasoning is:
Ho-Oh does not synergize with the deck, outside of "doing damage."
It's GX attack is extremely lackluster, and I don't see myself ever needing that option.
On top of that... it does nothing on it's own.
If you miss your Kiawe early, Ho-Oh-GX is much harder to set up.

If a Volcanion-EX isn't set-up, it can still contribute with Steam-Up.
If Turtonator-EX isn't set-up, it can Nitro Tank GX, or Shell Trap to stall.

Even though you can access Ho-Oh's 180 damage through Kiawe... I'd rather Kiawe a Turtonator-GX.

Turtonator-GX, with 4 energy, can do 160 damage in back-to-back turns... while placing energy in the discard, that Turtonator-GX can set-up later.

Turn1: Kiawe Turtonator-GX.
Turn2: Attach energy, attack for 160. Now at 3 energy.
Turn3: Attach energy, attack for 160. Now at 2 energy.
Turn4: Attach energy, attack for 160. Now at 1 energy.

Even if you miss an attachment, you can Nitro Tank GX or Shell Trap... and to me, those are just better options.

You OHKO nearly everything with one steam-up, outside of Espeon/Umbreon-GX... which will die if you have Fighting Fury Belt.

Relying heavily on Kiawe takes away from your deck's consistency.



It forces you to run more Lele's, or more Ultra Balls, etc.
and is a lot less powerful, if you're not going first.
Even if you do it Turn1, but you went second, you're setting up one Pokemon...
While your opponent has had two turns to set-up his.

Remember, most attackers in the meta only require 2 attachments.
This means, that your opponent may already be set-up, while you may not have had the chance to say...
fix your dead hand, or search for a tool card, because you needed/wanted the turn1 Kiawe.

Especially if you had to Ultra Ball for Lele, this could place you in a very bad position from the start.

You'd give up your supporter, your attacking advantage for going second, and are challenging your opponent to outpace you.

This can work, but is risky at high-level play.


I currently run 2 Max Elixirs, but I'll have to do some testing post-rotation to see if it's necessary~
I've gotten a few wins off them myself~
ex. Olympia into Staryu, attach energy, elixir, retreat into attacker~
(This is also why the free retreat Staryu is nice to have)


I'm eager to try out Acerola, as a lot of times, you get swapped into a Volcanion and your opponent tries to chip away at you... since you have 3 retreat cost, sometimes... this works.

Also good vs spread decks like Ninetales~
Not saying it's necessary, but... maybe something worth trying!



I'd argue that Altar of Sunne is far more linear, and is a dead card vs Metagross-GX.
Volcanion-EX makes the deck work, this is why we run Brooklet hill.
Getting the Staryu (for retreat shenanigans, and so we can evolve it sooner), and the Volcanion-EXs down early are a priority.
You need the Volcanion-EX's in play to start setting up, because:

• It puts your energy in the discard, so you can accelerate it.
• It gives you something to accelerate to.
• It gives you the damage you need, so you can fight back, while setting up.

Also, once you have them down, it's alternative purpose is to snuff out opposing stadiums~
Since you don't really need the card, it's a risk free play.

But, don't forget that you can use Pokemon Stretcher, to shuffle your Volcanion-EX(s) back in, and then use Brooklet Hill to get them out!~

It can also be Ultra Ball/Space Beacon fodder... while not adding in items for Trashalanche.
Trashalanche is also the reason why this card is so good; as we can search for Volcanion-EX, without feeding the beast.


There's actually another neat tech I'd like to go over...
Ninja Boy.

I feel like most people forgot about this card, but I really like it!
There are a lot of interesting tricks you can pull off with this~

Like:
Active Turtonator-GX | Attacks for 160; discards 2 energy, 1 energy left attached.
Next turn: Ninja Boy into baby Volcanion | Attacks with Power Heater; attaches the 2 energy.

Or:
Active Volcanion-EX | Steam-Up, Ninja Boy into baby Volcanion, Brooklet Hill your Volcanion-EX back... Steam-Up again!
2 Steam-Ups, with only one Volcanion left in the deck~

I've also had someone Lysandre my Volcanion-EX, trying to force a 2HKO with their Lele, knowing they'd survive the Volcanic Heat (Garbotoxin was in play), but... I Ninja Boy'd into my Turtonator and OHKO'd them~

You could also Ninja Boy into a Staryu, and retreat, but... that only works if you haven't take damage.

ANYWAYS, giant wall of text aside...
I really like this deck~

Hope my rant was able to spark some new thoughts for you guys!

I've tried Skyla before, and I never found myself in a situation where it really flipped the status quo in my favor. In my list, there just aren't enough items for it to be useful. The only one that was beneficial at all was Max Elixir, which was rare because it doesn't grant you an energy attachment every time.
---
I completely agree with FFB > Choice Band. The extra HP is so nice in a meta where 180 damage is the, "Magic Number." The 10 extra damage is also quite nice because it lets Turtonator hit 170 HP Pokemon with no Steam Ups, and Volcanion-EX with one.
---
I really like Ho-Oh-GX in the deck. I completely agree with you that he doesn't bring much to the table if you don't get the energy on him, but that's why you make him your number one, or in other words, your top priority. Which do you think is better, three energies for 130, or four for 180? Statistically, Ho-Oh-GX's attack is better than Volcanion's. It goes beyond this, however. The effect of Ho-Oh's attack states, "This Pokemon can't use Phoenix Burn next turn." This means he can use his spread damage attack for three energies next turn regardless. The option to put fifty anywhere is always strong to put pressure on your opponents and set up knockouts [with Phoenix Burn?] next turn. Here's a hypothetical. Gardevoir-GX will be a popular deck next format, for good reason. In this match-up, hitting one on the bench for fifty with Sacred Fire sets up a one shot with Phoenix burn the next turn (Gardevoir-GX has 230 HP.) This brings me to my next point. I'd like you to take notice of Ho-Oh-GX's weakness. It's Lightning. This makes the the Aquabox (or any water deck,) much easier. Having an attacker that isn't weak to the same type everything else in your deck is grants you a huge advantage. Prior to Ho-Oh-GX, this was one of Volcanion's main weaknesses. Now you have a Pokemon that water types won't OHKO every time, thanks to the versatility of weaknesses that the deck now has. The last thing I'd like to cover here is his GX attack. It's not strong. At all. I have yet to be in a scenario where it would be better than Turtonator's. But that's why we run a copy of the turtle.
---
This new list doesn't rely on Kiawe, It's just another option. I planned on playing More Tapu Leles for consistency anyway. Through my playtesting, I got a turn one Kiawe 67% of the time. Forcing 180+ damage [Ho-Oh] turn two puts an incredible amount of pressure on your opponent. Kiawe is too good to pass up here.
---
I'll have to try Acerola, but I don't think it'll be consistent enough.
---
I am highly convinced that Brooklet Hill is the best stadium for this deck, and it will stay that way for a while. I agree with you here, getting Staryu and Volcanion-EXs up early is a must.
---
I'm really lost on Ninja Boy. It seems okay, but tech supporters won't be as strong without VS Seeker.

 

[duxx369]

which Staryu are you talking about here?

 

[Ecourts]

which Staryu are you talking about here?

BREAKpoint Staryu

It's Free Retreat allows for more options in your play.
Most notably: Using a switch card into Staryu, and then retreating into Volcanion-EX, allowing it to attack again.

 

[AverageAvenger]

which Staryu are you talking about here?

I do believe he's talking about Breakpoint Staryu. You'd want it set up early so that you can get Starmie out for acceleration asap. I know most people use that one, but I prefer using Evolutions Staryu as opposed to Breakpoint. My only reason being that Ninetales has been rising in popularity and I don't quite fancy it getting sniped out. All in all, I enjoy the HP boost of Evolutions, rather than the free retreat of Breakpoint.

 

[duxx369]

thx for clarification
the deck seems great, i used to run volacnion/volc ex when steam siege come out - to be honest thats when I started to play ptcg at all

i'll try to make this deck for my local meta, though I don't own any tapu lele so it will be a challenge to buy 2 of them without wife noticing
and on top of that, managed to get my hand on elite BUS box few days ago and from 8 boosters got none gx or even useful supporters, bad luck

personal, I use 2 choice bands and 2 FFB - and use them depending of opponent, so far seems to be working for me , at least on online

regarding stadium - I like to use 1 copy of parallel city, sometimes come's in handy to limit opponents bench, and -20 is just one steam up more

and for end - 15 energy - seems a bit excessive, I know there will be alot of kiawe and steam ups, but 12-13 should be enough

 

[Ecourts]

thx for clarification
and for end - 15 energy - seems a bit excessive, I know there will be alot of kiawe and steam ups, but 12-13 should be enough

It's surprisingly not excessive.
I run 14 myself.

If you think about how much energy this deck burns through, it's actually necessary.
You need:

• Energy in hand for Steam-Ups.
• Energy in discard for acceleration.
• Energy attached for attacking.

Almost all your attackers use/can use 3 attachments for their attack.
Having three Pokemon set-up, means you have 7-9 energy on board.

With 14, this only leaves 5 remaining energy.
Up to 3 can be used for Steam-Ups.

Lots of energy increases your chances of drawing into it, so you can start accelerating your Pokemon. Volcanion relies on having energy.

High energy counts, cause every energy counts~

 

[Adi]

I have deck tested Volcanion decks for a while now, and here is the deck list I plan on running for the new format.

Pokemon: 15

2 Starmie
2 Staryu
2 Tapu Lele GX
4 Volcanion
3 Volcanion EX
1 Ho Oh GX
1 Turtonator GX

Trainers: 33

Items
2 Fighting Fury Belt
2 Field Blower
3 Float Stone
1 Rescue Stretcher
4 Ultra Ball
2 Max Elixir
2 Nest Ball

Supporters
1 Kiawe
2 Guzma
4 N
4 Professor Sycamore
1 Mallow

Stadiums
3 Scorched Earth
2 Altar of the Sunne

Energy: 12

12 Fire Energy

One of the biggest changes I would make is dropping Brooklet Hill for Scorched Earth and Altar of the Sunne. First of all I saw you say "I only run three ultra balls because Brooklet hill can get out most of what you want early game (except Ho-Oh/Turt.)" and that is partially true. You can't pull baby Volcanion using Brooklet Hill because it is not a water type, only Volcanion EX is a water and fire type. Another reason I'm not a fan of Brooklet Hill is that it feeds your worst matchups, water decks. I have versed Greninja, Alolan Ninetales, and Lapras with it, and they always got off to such a fast start. I lost like 95% of those matches, but with Scorched Earth, and my 2 Altar of the Sunne's I did much better. When I playtested with the deck I found it ran fast enough without Brooklet Hill, and Scorched Earth utilizes Starmie way better. I also like Scorched Earth because you can combo it with Mallow to pull any two cards you want. I run two Altar of the Sunne because in the new format their are way to many good water decks. The other changes are pretty small, and are probably preference based. I hope this helps.

 

[duxx369]

no switch or escape rope? with field blower so heavily played, float stones get removed fast

 

[Ecourts]

I have versed Greninja, Alolan Ninetales, and Lapras with it, and they always got off to such a fast start.

Interesting observation... considering Gren has almost always been a "slow" deck.
This is actually the reason why not a lot of people play Gren.
It's just not very consistent.

Lapras is another slow deck.
Actually... the match-up is in Volcanion's favor, and the stadium doesn't really help you here... as you can get OHKO'd even without weakness (one of the last top8s we saw Lapras, it was running Choice Band).

Ninetales only hits the active for Weakness, and nearly every mon in the meta is doing 100+ anyways.
Plus, more than half of Ninetales players (at a competitive level) don't even have Water energy for the second attack (due to the inclusion of Decidueye-GX).

Greninja is the only match-up where the stadium could help you.
But, personally, I don't like comprimising my deck's consistency for one unfavorable match-up.
and... Greninja players should be running at least 2 field blowers anyways.

Which leads me to my next point... field blower.
It is a very popular card.

This is why Brooklet will be the best stadium nine times out of ten.
It has immediate impact, you don't have to play into it, or around it.
You drop it down, and you get a Volcanion-EX/Staryu.

It also doesn't add an item to the discard, like playing a Nest Ball would (Garbodor).
Also, yes, while Mallow does have synergy with Scorched Earth... there's not a whole lot of cards you need to fetch.

In Volcanion, you mainly need Energy... and sometimes a switch card.
That's about it.

Not to mention, Garbotoxin will leave you in a very awkward position~

 

[Adi]

First of all you are misinformed when it comes to the popularity of Greninja. Looking at the North American International Championships Greninja placed top 8 in Masters and Juniors, won Seniors, and came second in Juniors. You obviously misunderstood one of my points about why Brooklet Hill is worse. It makes water decks faster, so now you just turned a slow running Greninja Break and Lapras deck into a fast one. A lot of Lapras GX players plan on running through Palkia EX in the new format, and if they can put that down on their first turn using your Brooklet Hill, and Max Elixir on it they can attack and put 2 energies on a Lapras. Then they can put down Manaphy EX next turn switch out and if they have a Water Energy you could be in big trouble. They can even keep on setting up if they want to. Also I would disagree on your statement about Alolan Ninetales being less competitive than Decideyue/Alolan Ninetales. In the NAIC masters division Alolan Ninetales and Decideyue/Alolan Ninetales placed top 8 . 2 Alolan Ninetales decks got top 8 in Birmingham Regional Championships, another Alolan Ninetales deck placed top 8 in the Seattle Regional Championships. The biggest flaw in your argument is that Decidyue/Alolan Ninetales decks run 4 Forest of Giant Plants, and that is going out of format, and getting banned at the same time. Since we are talking about post rotation Decidyue/Alolan Ninetales will be irrelevant. I have deck tested a lot with proxys against the top decks and you will get a good amount of turns with your stadium even if they run 2 field Blower. I was given just enough turns to get 2 cards I really needed with Mallow. Plus in my build I run 5 tools and 5 stadiums, and not all will be used in a game cause some are situational, but the point is they will have to make some tough decisions on what to field blower away. One thing I could maybe agree on is dropping the Altar of the Sunne's, but this we will only find out when we learn how dominant Alolan Ninetales will become. I think Alolan Ninetales will become one of the best tier 1 decks because they created baby Alolan Nintales. Without Hex Maniac a lot of decks will be in big trouble. Talking on your last point about Garbotoxin Ecourts a lot of people think Garbodor will fall because of VS Seeker going out of format. We will see heavier supporter lines meaning less items. I hope this helps.

 

[Ecourts]

First of all you are misinformed when it comes to the popularity of Greninja. Looking at the North American International Championships Greninja placed top 8 in Masters and Juniors, won Seniors, and came second in Juniors. You obviously misunderstood one of my points about why Brooklet Hill is worse. It makes water decks faster, so now you just turned a slow running Greninja Break and Lapras deck into a fast one. A lot of Lapras GX players plan on running through Palkia EX in the new format, and if they can put that down on their first turn using your Brooklet Hill, and Max Elixir on it they can attack and put 2 energies on a Lapras. Then they can put down Manaphy EX next turn switch out and if they have a Water Energy you could be in big trouble. They can even keep on setting up if they want to. Also I would disagree on your statement about Alolan Ninetales being less competitive than Decideyue/Alolan Ninetales. In the NAIC masters division Alolan Ninetales and Decideyue/Alolan Ninetales placed top 8 . 2 Alolan Ninetales decks got top 8 in Birmingham Regional Championships, another Alolan Ninetales deck placed top 8 in the Seattle Regional Championships. The biggest flaw in your argument is that Decidyue/Alolan Ninetales decks run 4 Forest of Giant Plants, and that is going out of format, and getting banned at the same time. Since we are talking about post rotation Decidyue/Alolan Ninetales will be irrelevant. I have deck tested a lot with proxys against the top decks and you will get a good amount of turns with your stadium even if they run 2 field Blower. I was given just enough turns to get 2 cards I really needed with Mallow. One thing I could maybe agree on is dropping the Altar of the Sunne's, but this we will only find out when we learn how dominant Alolan Ninetales will become. I think Alolan Ninetales will become one of the best tier 1 decks because they created baby Alolan Nintales. Without Hex Maniac a lot of decks will be in big trouble. I hope this helps.

I'm not misinformed on the popularity of Greninja.
I stated a fact.
Greninja is not consistent.
Because of this, people don't like using it.

Garbodor is consistent.
Which is why people like using it.

I'm not saying Greninja is bad or unpopular.
I'm saying:
Why am I teching for the less consistent deck, when those tech(s) hurt me against what is arguably the BDIF?

Also, why wouldn't Lapras be running it's own Brooklet Hill...?
Rough Seas won't be standard, there's no reason why it wouldn't.

 

[Adi]

Your are not stating a fact by the way that is an opinion. I think Greninja, Lapras, and Alolan Ninetales will see enough play in the new format to justify an argument about how Brooklet Hill strengthens Volcanions worst matchups. Just to be clear Scorched is not a tech in, and I would not say you are running it just to counter Water decks. It has a more important startegy behind it. I simply suggested another reason why I think it is better than Brooklet Hill. Lapras decks will also run Brooklet Hill, so that part of my argument is not as strong because they could also play it. You either seem to be forgetting this deck is in the new format or you completely ignored my argument about why Garbodor will become worse in the new format. I will do more deck testing with Brooklet Hill versus Scorched Earth, but right now I still feel Scorched Earth is the better card. I hope this helps.

 

[Ecourts]

Your are not stating a fact by the way that is an opinion. I think Greninja, Lapras, and Alolan Ninetales will see enough play in the new format to justify an argument about how Brooklet Hill strengthens Volcanions worst matchups. Just to be clear Scorched is not a tech in, and I would not say you are running it just to counter Water decks. It has a more important startegy behind it. I simply suggested another reason why I think it is better than Brooklet Hill. Lapras decks will also run Brooklet Hill, so that part of my argument is not as strong because they could also play it. You either seem to be forgetting this deck is in the new format or you completely ignored my argument about why Garbodor will become worse in the new format. I will do more deck testing with Brooklet Hill versus Scorched Earth, but right now I still feel Scorched Earth is the better card. I hope this helps.

Okay... but you actually edited that part about Garbodor in. Haha.
Which by the way, is an opinion, with very little basis.
Especially since your deck list only has 2 less items than the average Volcanion list.
Players have already been lowering their VS Seeker counts, due to the introduction of Lele and Garbodor (Ryan Sabelhaus ran 3 VS seekers at Internationals).

Even though people play around Garbodor, it still took first.
That's how consistent the deck is.
and consistency is key.

"[...]playing the most well rounded deck matchup-wise and the most consistent version of the most consistent deck ended up paying off!"

-Tord in his interview with Kettler

Also, I'm not talking about Scorched Earth being your tech.
I'm talking about the extra balls you have to run, because of the consistency you lose without Brooklet Hill.