POtW 3 - Dragonite

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Chillarmy

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dragonitefinal.png

Credit to safariblade for the amazing artwork.

Welcome to POtW #3. This week will be discussing Dragonite.​

Dragonite is probably one of the pokemon with the most varying opinions today. Many battlers are in an uproar, trying to get it banned, with their main argument being "it has no real counters." We will discuss that in this thread. We will also be discussing the potential ban, and common movesets for Dragonite.

Dragonite is a beast, no one can argue with that. With its new DW ability Multiscale, any damage taken is halved when Dragonite is at full HP. It has beautiful defensive stats to back it up, while its offensive stats are above par too. Because Dragonite can survive many super effective attacks and KO back, making it have no real counters, many experienced competitive battlers are calling for a ban.

One of Dragonite's most amazing assets is a movepool to take full advantage of the rain.

149-frame1.png

Dragonite@Life Orb
Multiscale
Rash / Quiet
EVs 252 Att/252 Sp Att/4 Spe
~ Hurricane
~ Aqua Tail
~ ExtremeSpeed
~ Roost / Brick Break​

The basis of this set is to hit like a truck under the rain. Hurricane is an insanely powerful move, hitting anything that doesn't resist for incredible damage. Hurricane achieves 100% accuracy in the Rain, and makes the STAB 130 base power move even more lethal. Aqua Tail hits any Steel types (bar Ferrothorn) expecting to switch into a Dragon attack. Extremespeed hits weakened pokemon or frail sweepers for the KO. Brick Break is there for Chansey, Blissey, and Ferrothorn, while Roost increases Dragonite's longevity. As you can see, Dragonite is incredibly versatile, and this is just one set of many.

However, Dragonite isn't elite. While it may have no real counters, it certaintly does have checks. Both Stealth Rock and Sandstorm damage Dragonite on the switch, nullifying MultiScale and setting up the opponent for an OHKO. Physically Defensive Quagsire ignores any DD boosts, is immune to Thunder Wave, and can hit Dragonite hard with Ice Beam. However, Quagsire will get rocked by Hurricane on RainNite. Haxorus ignores Multiscale with Mold Breaker and scores an easy OHKO with Outrage. However, Haxorus can't switch in, so he can only revenge kill. Tyranitar can deal with any Dragonites that lack Superpower or Aqua Tail, setting up Sandstorm and OHKOing after MultiScale with Stone Edge. Cloyster can easily deal with Dragonite as long as it can set up a Shell Smash, OHKOing with Icicle Spear. As you can see, all of the checks have an "if," which is what most ban-crying players use against Dragonite.

What would a ban for Dragonite mean? Rain would take another hit in usage, with first Thundurus and then Dragonite being banned. Usage of Lati@s and Salamence would rise sharply, and we may even see the return of Flygon.

In this thread discuss Dragonite. Post any new and creative sets, or simply an analysis on a common set. Discuss Dragonite's possibile ban. Is Dragonite broken? What impact would a ban have on the metagame? Finally, simply discuss Dragonite's niche and usefulness in OU.



As a side announcement, I will be accepting art for PoTW from now on. As you can see, safariblade has already stepped up to the plate (more like I asked him to :p) However, if you want to have your artwork featured in PoTW, shoot me a PM. Also, if you want to write an analysis for a future PoTW, first you must PM me stating your interest. Then, if I give you the go ahead, PM me a draft and I'll let you know if it'll work out. Thanks everyone, and happy discussing
 
Dragonite's stats for reference:
HP91SpAtk100
Atk134SpDef100
Def95Spe80

While Dragonite is definitely powerful, I do not believe it to be broken. It is not particularly fast for a sweeper, despite being able to raise its Speed with Dragon Dance. This makes it vulnerable to faster Pokemon with ice moves such as Starmie's Ice Beam. Many Pokemon also wield Hidden Power Ice to deal with Gliscor, Dragonite, and Salamence among other Pokemon. It also is vulnerable to dragon type moves. A powerful Outrage will certainly deal large damage to Dragonite. Dragonite that run the MultiScale ability are not able to have Roost due to it being a Generation 4 TM move. This means their only mean of recovery is Rest which is not something that can be used well by Dragonite. Being slow also comes with a disadvantage of possibly getting inflicted with a status condition prior to even attacking. Burning it with Will-o-wisp severely cripples it as it can then only dish out poweful damage with Special Attacks. This will allow Blissey / Chansey to wall it effectively. Porygon2 can take hits decently from it, though it must play carefully to beat it. It can survive any attack Dragonite throws at it then strike back with Ice Beam or paralyze first with Thunder Wave.

Facing a Dragon Dance set is far different than the rain set. Dragon Dance sets can be either defensively orientated or more offensively orientated. Defensive sets may elect for not having MultiScale since it will then be able to use Roost when necessary while powering up with Dragon Dance. This Dragonite can live through quite a bit barring ice attacks. It is easy to get up to +2 or more with a defense DD set on Dragonite. This alllows it to outpace then be able to hit opponent's hard. The downside of this set is it only has 2 damaging moves depending on preferences. Dragon Claw is normally used due to being able to switch moves when needed. It has a lot less power than Outrage, however, it tends to be more useful in the long run since it also avoids confusing itself. Running Brick Break as its second damaging move works out well because it can strike some the Pokemon that resist Dragon Claw for neutral damage. Heatran typically carries Air Balloon meaning it will need to be hit with a different damaging move before being able to Earthquake it. This is one reason to run Brick Break over Earthquake. Skarmory is able to wall this set effectively. Even defensive DD Dragonite that run FirePunch have a hard time with Skarmory just because of how high its Defense is.

Offensive DD Dragonite sets will like the protection MultiScale provides to get a turn to set up. Very few attacks could actually score a OHKO on Dragonite at full health that has MultiScale. A critical hit is basically the only way it can get taken down in a single hit. Offensive sets may elect to run Outrage instead of Dragon Claw for the difference in power. It is able to score some KOs that Dragon Claw just can't provide. Brick Break is usually used in order to maximize coverage, though it only hits Pokemon that are 4x weak to fighting and steel types harder than Outrage. Extreme Speed is sometimes used to have a priority move to finish off a weakened foe. It also can assist in dealing with Pokemon that are scarfed. Fire Blast might be used to assist against Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory. Ferrothorn threatens to paralyze Dragonite which can hamper its sweeping abilities. Forretress can't do anything major, though it could get up at least 1 entry hazard. Skarmory can phase Dragonite to get rid of your boosts. It has the Sturdy ability which will allow it to survive if it as at full health.

If Dragonite got banned, I believe Hidden Power Ice would be a lot less popular because it is one of the major ways Pokemon deal with Dragonite if they can't learn Ice Beam. I believe Infernape may rise in usage if Dragonite gets banned because not many Pokemon are able to withstand its attacks, particularly the mixed variations. I also believe the usagae of Starmie would go up. A Dragonite that has more than 240 Speed is able to outpace a Starmie after 1 Dragon Dance. Outrage hits Starmie quite hard and I believe that to be one reason behind Starmie not being as popular. Tornadus will go up some in usage because Dragonite is one Pokemon that could check it. Jolteon will likely drop slightly in usage because it is one of the few Pokemon that outpace Dragonite that aren't a Speed up nature after a Dragon Dance. It was a good way to at least get some damage on the Dragonite and possibly paralyze it or strike it with HP Ice. Quagsire usage would go down because less Pokemon that are potentially threatening after boosts will be around. Kingdra would rise sharply in usage since Dragonite is one of its major checks.

Right now Dragonite keeps some of the other dragons in check because Dragonite will survive their attack then KO back with Outrage. I think it is causing the usage of them being lower than they otherwise would be. Dragonite's role can vary greatly with the sets it has. It can function as a wall breaker very well due to its offensive stats. This is similar to how Salamence acted prior to its ban last generation and how Infernape was dominating in the previous generation.
 
Roost+Dragon Dance is legal de and I can't wait to get this thing banned it can set up on every pokemon outspeed on the next turn then Roost to get back the multiscale and then you can get another DD because DNite is bulky even without Multiscale.
 
To be honest I can't say I've ever had massive problems with Dragonite, at least not on the same level as, say, 4th gen Salamence. Maybe I have yet to face one in the hands of a very skilled player, but so far just working extra hard in keeping SR up and not giving it a chance to use DDance seems to be working just fine.

What sets in particular have you guys been having trouble with?
 
Like Bacon, I've never had much trouble with Dragonite, mainly due to using Mienshao as a lead. On any team lacking a ghost Dragonite is often the best thing they have to take a Hi Jump Kick, so Dragonite usually switches in on the first turn and gets hit with Fake Out, breaking Multiscale, and on the next turn I'm able to deal large amounts of damage if not KO outright with HP Ice. Of course, this may be because I don't ladder very often and so I don't face people good at using Dragonite very often. However, I don't doubt tat it is good if used correctly, ban-worthy I would say not so much. The prevalence of HP Ice and Sandstorm makes it hard for Dragonite to stay at full health and its speed is a meager 80, which, added to the fact that few people give it many EVs in speed, lets it be revenge killed without too much trouble.
 
Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 16 SDef / 160 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Substitute
- Roost
- Dragon Dance

Come in on a resisted attack or something not threatening, stall out HP Ice and Ice Beams, lol as almost nothing can break the sub with Multiscale (no, not even most Ice Beams), and get in multiple DD's. Make sure to run with Rapid Spin support for maximum trolling.

Did I forget to mention Dragonite has more Sp Defensive bulk than Blissey with Multiscale?
 
TheDarkLucario said:
Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 16 SDef / 160 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Substitute
- Roost
- Dragon Dance

Come in on a resisted attack or something not threatening, stall out HP Ice and Ice Beams, lol as almost nothing can break the sub with Multiscale (no, not even most Ice Beams), and get in multiple DD's. Make sure to run with Rapid Spin support for maximum trolling.

Did I forget to mention Dragonite has more Sp Defensive bulk than Blissey with Multiscale?
Click to expand...

This set is very good. I have both used it and been used against it. It is extremely hard to stop it's momentum. You truly need some sort of phazer to stop it, along with Stealth Rocks. Hopefully you can get out your phazer before it gets its DDs in, or else you're risking getting KO'd and then you're stuck. I admit, Taunt Skarm does stop this beast in its tracks, can set up spikes, and then whirlwind it away. Most steels can wall it for a short time, but they really need Taunt to stop it. It can just keep Dragon Dancing 6 times and kill the steel. With that said, it would generally work better if you have taken out all the steels before bringing Dragonite out.

Offensive Dragonites don't give me as much trouble as do defensive variants. While an Adamant +1 Outrage/Fire Punch/Earthquake may be hard to handle, I find that luring out Outrage is the best thing to try and do.

Dragonite is a pain to deal with, but Skarm can effectively handle it. While a +1 Fire Punch isn't something Skarm likes very much, it can handle it and then phaze it away. It usually can just switch in on Outrage anyways, so Fire Punch isn't something it should generally be worried about.

Ferrothorn can slightly handle Dragonite. It can switch in on Outrage and cripple with Thunder Wave, but in terms of actually taking it down, it doesn't really have any options. It's best to pop in, Thunder Wave, and then run away. In the rain, where Ferrothorn is found commonly, Fire Punch won't be much of a threat either.

Problem is, most Pokemon are 1-2HKO'd by Dragonite's Outrage (granted Adamant and +1), and if they're not, they're handled by Fire Punch or Earthquake. It is tough to handle Dragonite's force once it has gotten started, so you might have to switch around, predict until you can hit. Multiscale is definitely a force to reckon with, and defensive Dragonites paired with Roost are very hard to handle, especially when a substitute is added to the equation. All-in-all, I find that Dragonite is a very good Pokemon in OU and keeps a lot of the other Dragon-types in check as well. Being able to survive an Outrage, Dragon Claw, or Dragon Pulse and then return with a KO is definitely a good thing to have.
 
TDL stealing sets from Smogon. That is something new :p Even when you run Dnite without Sub it is very dificult to take down. Its ability to get at least one DD is amazing and thanks Arceus that Jolteon outspeeds even at +1.

And TDL Dnite has more bulk than Blissey only when it runs the specially defensive ParaShuffler version.
 
I never realized Dragonite learned Roost by level-up. I always thought it was by TM. Even though I now realize it can have Roost with MultiScale, I still don't feel it is broken. I haven't really had many problems taking it down when I come across it although I do use Skarmory on most of my teams so it can't really set up too much on me.
 
I always take it out with Ice Beam. It always seem to work that way for me. Now a pure bulky set may be a diffrent story since it can endure alot of attacks then Roost away damage.
 
IF I had to pick one word to describe dragonite, it would be "Awesome"

Please note that I chose "awesome" not "broken."

Dragonite gained the ability of "Multiscale" which has finally made him one of the biggest threats in OU. In past generations, Salamence was favored due to Intimidate (inner focus dnite rofl) and higher offensive stats (Special Attack and Speed especially.) Dragonite's only real role was as either Choice Band, or a bulky set, since Dragonite had higher defenses. Multiscale has finally changed that- Dragonite can literally absorb any attack in OU aside from the random obscenely powerful attacks, such as Choice Band Haxorus Outrage, set up a dragon dance, and then proceed to roost back up to full health, and absorb the hit again. Dragonite's Special Attack isn't bad either, so the gain of Drizzle + 100% Accurate Hurricane was another big plus. Oh, and we musn't forget Dragon Tail. Dragonite is finally a top-notch OU threat. It's versatile, it's got the surprise factor, and he's just scary. Despite all these though, Dragonite still isn't broken. He's about 2 millimeters away, but he isn't broken. Dragonite does still take 25% from Stealth Rock on every switch in, so you're forced to use spin support. With Magnezone rising in popularity due to the surplus of dragons (Haxorus, Lati twins, Salamence, and Dragonite), Forretress just isn't a safe play any more. Donphan and Hitmontop are extremely difficult to use in OU, their stat's and attacking pools aren't the greatest. Starmie is a great choice, but it must sacrifice either 10% health to Life Orb, plus possible Sand recoil, or it must sacrifice power and use Leftovers instead. Sandstorm is also prevelant, and neutralizes Leftovers, so Multiscale becomes easy to keep off once it is off. Base 80 Speed isn't that great either- every single dragon in OU outspeeds it. Weakness to common attacks such as Stone Edge, Outrage, Draco Meteor, Ice Shard, Hidden Power Ice, and Ice Beam doesn't help either. Even though multiscale helps, Dragonite doesn't want to absorb any Ice Beams any time soon. Once you get its health down, Priority can also kill it, such as Extreemspeed Lucario, or Bullet Punch Scizor. Physical STAB is huge too, which means things like Ferrothorn or Skarmory can easily switch into a Dragon Claw or Outrage, and proceed to Phaze, Thunder Wave, or build up residual damage. (Ferrothorn's Iron Barbs and possibly Leech Seed/Rocky Helmet.) So while Dragonite is a total beast in OU (anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves), Dragonite is definitely not broken.
 
Do people use Dragonite as a sort of emergency check to things? I've found that with his Multiscale bulk allowing him to pretty much always take a hit, and access to Extreme Speed, he can act as a sort of one-time answert too stuff you team has issues with. "Break Glass For Dragonite" kinda.
 
This thing just keeps finding more uses in the metagame. It's so versatile that it can be used on stall teams, and very effectively at that. A Pokemon with great typing, ability, and being able to do pretty much anything makes it one of, if not the, most dangerous threat(s) in the metagame. The ability as a utility Pokemon on almost any team just solidifies the fact that it has become on of the best Pokemon in the game. It isn't broken by any stretch, though. Now that people are familiar with what it can do, me teams have easy counters to him, especially things like Scizor and Ferrothorn. The dominance of Rain and Steel types totally destroy Dnite's chances of becoming broken. If it can't Roost quick enough after hazard damage, it becomes the same thing it was last gen, but with lower surprise factor. I actually used Dnite quite a lost 4th gen, and I'm happy to see that he's finally getting the usage he deserves.
 
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