DPPt/HGSS Questions about RNGing

Aj1234119

bug catcher
Member
hey, i just started RNGing 2 days ago and now iv'e got about 10 shiny pokemon, but with bad natures/iv's and im looking to start RNGing for perfect pokemon. i was just wondering 1. why when hatching shiny eggs you use the happiness checker to advance the frame but you can't while catching perfect pokemon, and 2. if a pokemon is just a normal pokemon, found by walking in the grass, what is its monster frame?

mods: sorry if this should be in competitive, i wasn't sure.
 
To answer your first question, there are actually three different random number generators at work in the Pokémon over-world, all using different algorithms to generate different events in the game, or traits of a Pokémon:

  • "Regular" RNG
  • iRNG
  • aRNG

The regular RNG determines both the Pokémon ID (PID) and IVs for a captured or Method 1 ("Gift") Pokémon, the PID being the combination of a nature, gender, ability, and potential shininess for an individual Pokémon (NOT STATS/IVs). However, for bred Pokémon, the regular RNG determines only the IVs. The "Egg" iRNG should be associated entirely with breeding, and generally speaking creates the PID of a hatched Pokémon. The "Alternate" aRNG is used to generate natures for wonder card Pokémon, part of a mechanism that alters the event Pokémon's PID so that it's impossible to receive a shiny (or in the case of shiny event Pokémon, the aRNG makes sure the Pokémon is in fact shiny all the time). However, the aRNG, as far as I know, hasn't been cracked yet, so it'd be best to ignore it completely (it's completely arbitrary to breeding anyway).

Now, bearing that in mind, in breeding shinies like you've been doing so far, you're only using the iRNG, because the fact that the Pokémon is shiny is solely the result of its PID (with the factors of your TID/SID combo, which I'm sure you're familiar with since you've been successful thus far). Frame advancement for the iRNG occurs when you do a double tap on the Happiness Checker app or a tap on the Coin Flip app, but does nothing to the regular RNG. Advancing the regular RNG does nothing to the iRNG, and to advance the regular RNG, you can do a number of things, including flipping pages in the Journal, walking, or encountering Pokémon, most practically via Sweet Scent (there are some other extraneous methods, but here are the details). So in short, you can't use the same method of frame advancement for catching Pokémon because it is determined by a different RNG, and all RNGs in the game function separately and differently.


To answer your second question, the monster frame of a generic grass-found Pokémon is 1, like a gift Pokémon for example. However, it's important to note that while you walk around in tall grass, caves, or anywhere where there's wild Pokémon, even with a Repel, the frame advances, specifically by 1 or 2 frames per step (even just turning your character counts as one step). Because of this inconsistency however, it's generally rendered an unreliable form of frame advancement unless you have a way to check your frame later on (i.e. calling Professor Elm in HGSS). So if you're RNGing a Pokémon in tall grass, in many scenarios it's best just to use Sweet Scent.


That should be that, it's incredibly important to have a thorough understanding of the concepts and how the game works before actually putting them into practice, so forgive me for elaborating a bit :). Hope this makes things a little more clear though.
 
Thank you a ton for explaining, i got it now and i caught a 31/x/31/30/31/31 modest lotad and budew and a 31/31/31/31/31/31 timid darkrai using this. Just 1 more question, when you're in a patch of grass where multiple pokemon can appear (ex the area where lotads are found also has budew in it) is there a way to make sure a certain pokemon appears? It's kind of annoying to after half an hour of soft reseting finally hit the right delay, then fight a bidoof and have it be pointless.
 
I think the only way to raise your chances of finding the right Pokémon would be using Traits that help with that, such as Magnet Pull raising the chance of a Steel-type appearing.
 
@AJ: Absolutely, no problem :)

However, I can't find any web pages or forum posts that would say otherwise at the moment, but from what I've observed, species is tied to the spread itself, so no matter how many times you hit your target, it'll always be that Bidoof… Still, this is only assuming there are no factors influencing appearance rates. So, like Vini said, you'll have to use abilities that have field effects like Magnet Pull to influence these rates (I couldn't tell you how these work in relation to the RNG, but they do for whatever reason :p). So for example, you'd use Magnet Pull if you were trying to RNG a Steel-type, Cute Charm to RNG an opposite-gender Pokémon/species that have only one gender, Intimidate to RNG a rare Pokémon that might only appear at a higher level than other species in the area, etc. etc.

But, all of those abilities are merely situational, and will not make a difference for a large majority of Pokémon. In these cases the best solution to your problem is to use another ability, specifically Synchronize. Now of course, on the surface many make the assumption that a Synchronizer just "makes Pokémon with the same nature appear more often," or 50% of the time, or whatever. But in reality, the effects are much more complex, and affect not only the nature, but the entire PID/IV spread of the Pokémon. If you've ever used the Time Finder in RNG Reporter or searched spreads in JavaRNG, you'll notice that, obviously you get more results for a particular spread you're looking for when you use a Synchronizer. But a Synchronizer doesn't actually increase the number of seeds you can find your target spread on, rather it duplicates your target spread multiple times within the same seed, so you'll often see moderately large sections of output results/spreads (usually anywhere from three to over ten spreads, though it depends on the seed) with the same seed, PID, and IVs that you wanted, just with different frames (usually in increasing order). So, to make that a little more clear, here's an example of what this might look like (we'll use your Timid Darkrai):

Without Synch

Seed: 000000 (just a made-up example)

Frame 67: Timid 31/31/31/31/31/31


With Synch
Seed: 000000

Frame 56: Timid 31/31/31/31/31/31
Frame 58: Timid 31/31/31/31/31/31
Frame 67: Timid 31/31/31/31/31/31
Frame: 74: Timid 31/31/31/31/31/31
Frame 102: Timid 31/31/31/31/31/31

(All the frames in between those above we'll just assume to be arbitrary, random spreads that you're usually tying to skip over and avoid)


So as you can see, there's more spreads with the specs you're looking for when you have a Synchronizer. Thus, the idea is that if you get a Bidoof on frame 67 (the only you'd have available without a synch), you can try frame 56, 58, etc., trying new "twin" spreads until you get the Lotad or whatever Pokémon you need. If none of those work, just repeat the process using another seed and set of frames. Though each spread/frame has the same PID/IV combo making them look identical, in actuality they are different spreads, and like I said, because species is tied to the spread itself, you won't get the same species of Pokémon for all of them.

Now, just a small disclaimer, but it may look highly appealing to use a Synchronizer because if the same spread appears on multiple frames, you only need to hit your seed once, and then you can just advance to all those frames on one reset. Unfortunately this is impossible, because for some reason (I guess it may be tied to the identical PID/IVs for all the frames), all of the frames will have the same "Actual" frame (or "Occidentary" frame in RNG Reporter 8.31 onwards), and logically the Actual frame is higher than the last possible consecutive frame for your spread. The Actual frame, if you're not already aware, is the frame you land on after exiting from an encounter with a wild Pokémon, and varies based on what frame you went into the encounter on (for more details on that check out the Sweet Scent link I posted above). So using the example above, you could have your spread on frames 56, 58, 67, 74, and 102, but the Actual frame for all of those will be over 102 (for example if the Actual frame was 127, 127 would apply to all of the above frames, so whether or not you encountered the Pokémon on frame 56, 58, etc., you'd always land on 127 exiting the battle, and thus you'd have to reset and hit your seed again, as it is impossible to find the spread you want again on a frame higher than the last one listed, 102). Because of this, I would not recommend hunting down incredibly rare Pokémon (less than 5% encounter rate), unless you were absolutely dead set on it for whatever reason. Breeding for those Pokémon instead will save you a ton of grief (believe me, I've been around the block with this procedure quite a few times :p).

So that's the deeper meaning to your predicament – in short, the general sense is that the species of Pokémon is set to the specific spread, and to find another Pokémon other than the one preset to that spread, you have to change encounter rates, use a Synchronizer, or just find a new spread altogether.
 
Great, that makes sense. i actually am using a synchronizer and what i did the 1st time was hit 3 different frames until one was a lotad. sorry, just one more question, say i find a seed for a close to flawless shiny spread and copy down the seed, then i give that seed to a friend and they use rng reporter to get the correct date, time, etc for them to get that seed. will they be able to use that seed to get the same spread that i could?
 
No problem -- Yes, the spread's PID and IVs are constant for all games, however your friend's not going to be able to get a shiny unless by some freak accident you both ended up with the same TID/SID :p. They'll be able to hit the spread and get the nature/IVs/etc., but the ID combo is the final authority on whether or not a Pokémon will be shiny. Based on that ID combo, think of it as the game assigning markers to specific spreads, and when those spreads are hit, a flag goes up to remind the game that it's supposed to generate a shiny. Still, different IDs equal different shiny spreads, so the only way they'd be able to get the shiny is if you generated spreads with their respective TID/SID, though based on what you've been successful with in breeding, I'm sure you're familiar with how to derive an SID, so you'd just repeat the process for your friend's game. Keep in mind again that they'll still get the near-perfect IVs, seeds and their respective spreads will never change between games.
 
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