Rebirth of Ho-oh

Baby_BI said:
camoclone said:
Mewtwo can never complain however is it worth the space... You'll be consistently hitting for 80-100 damage. What's the difference between 100 damage and 130 damage right now? Sure it helps against Kyurem however TDK will be seeing a lot less play. In the new format EX's will rule and once you get up to 90 damage there isn't a whole lot of difference between 100 damage and 160 damage. Is it worth the space for lasers? Is it really needed or would it be better to use another card?
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Laser are a must in this deck.
They complete the bouffalant math.
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Is the Bouffalant 1-shot really worth it though when it takes up 10 cards at the least? Your techs 1-hit KO things so why does Bouffalant need to do it too? You sacrifice so many other things. I can see where your going with a more Bouffalant oriented variation but I just don't think it's worth the space in regular Ho-oh.
 
You can cut down on other cards to buff buff (hehe). Bouf OHKOs everything that is an EX, so why not put focus on that?
 
Baby_BI said:
You can cut down on other cards to buff buff (hehe). Bouf OHKOs everything that is an EX, so why not put focus on that?
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I don't put focus into Bouffalant because there are better cards that 1-Hit KO and don't take up as much space. Bouffalant is very needy.
 
camoclone said:
Baby_BI said:
You can cut down on other cards to buff buff (hehe). Bouf OHKOs everything that is an EX, so why not put focus on that?
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I don't put focus into Bouffalant because there are better cards that 1-Hit KO and don't take up as much space. Bouffalant is very needy.
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What other card can OHKO everything beside bouf? 1 bouf uses 6 spots in your deck (bouf, basic energy, dce, laser, virbank, silver bangle) to do a OHKO on an ex. What other card(s) can do that in the same amount and do it as consistent as bouf?
 
Baby_BI said:
camoclone said:
I don't put focus into Bouffalant because there are better cards that 1-Hit KO and don't take up as much space. Bouffalant is very needy.
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What other card can OHKO everything beside bouf? 1 bouf uses 6 spots in your deck (bouf, basic energy, DCE, laser, virbank, silver bangle) to do a OHKO on an ex. What other card(s) can do that in the same amount and do it as consistent as bouf?
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But it's not really just 6 cards... That's the problem. if you are putting this much focus into Bouffalant then you need:
-3 Bouffalant
-3 Laser
-2 Virbank
-3 Bangle
That is 11 extra cards just so Bouffalant can get the one hit KO. The whole idea of Ho-oh is to use random attackers against the different meta decks some of which can KO.

Ho-oh EX ---> Virizion / Genesect
Mewtwo EX ---> Mewtwo EX
Genesect EX ---> Blastoise / Keldeo EX
Terrakion ---> Darkrai EX
Cobalion ---> Kyurem
Terrakion ---> Thundurus EX

You already 1-hit KO if you use the "right" attacker.
 
But instead of having to find the right attacker AND the right energy, you can just use Bouffalant for everything. It's much more consistent that way, granted you still need Bangle and Laserbank. I think it would do alright in the colorless Mewtwo/Tornadus variation, if that is still a thing.
 
I used Ho-Oh today at a League Challenge (and so did 1 of my friends), and I placed 3rd and he placed 2nd, me going 3-2, but one of my opponents scooped to me, so my record was 4-1. The game my opponent scooped was really close (I flipped a lot of heads, and he drew badly, but I started Ho-Oh, and my other Ho-Oh was my last prize, so it sorta evens out), and the other I misplayed (might've still lost anyway). The Lasers were okay, I can't really judge Virizion because I didn't face much with Lasers, and my 2 Bouffalant didn't do anything. I also played a Landorus EX, and that was really helpful.

I faced:
Vir/Gen loss (misplay)
Emboar.dec win
Some... thing (all I saw was Meowth) win
Vir/Gen win
Garchomp/Landorus/Dusknoir win (he scooped)

Make of this what you will.
 
Four Arms said:
I used Ho-Oh today at a League Challenge (and so did 1 of my friends), and I placed 3rd and he placed 2nd, me going 3-2, but one of my opponents scooped to me, so my record was 4-1. The game my opponent scooped was really close (I flipped a lot of heads, and he drew badly, but I started Ho-Oh, and my other Ho-Oh was my last prize, so it sorta evens out), and the other I misplayed (might've still lost anyway). The Lasers were okay, I can't really judge Virizion because I didn't face much with Lasers, and my 2 Bouffalant didn't do anything. I also played a Landorus EX, and that was really helpful.

I faced:
Vir/Gen loss (misplay)
Emboar.dec win
Some... thing (all I saw was Meowth) win
Vir/Gen win
Garchomp/Landorus/Dusknoir win (he scooped)

Make of this what you will.
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I'm curious were you running the bouffalant version?

How did you play out the VirGen matchup?

What happened versus Garchomp (I haven't actually tested against it)?
 
camoclone said:
I'm curious were you running the bouffalant version?
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No. I ran 4 Lasers, no Bangle, and 2 Bouffalant.

camoclone said:
How did you play out the VirGen matchup?
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Both games I started with a Mewtwo, and X Balled until my Mewtwo died. In the game I won, I had a Ho-Oh set up and I steam-rolled him. The game I lost, I didn't have a Ho-Oh up yet, so I used 2 more Mewtwo's. The second one KO'd a Genesect and soften up a Virizion, the third one softened up another Genesect, then he G Boostered me and I lost. If he hadn't had the win, I might've been able to Hammerhead both his softened up 'mons that turn.

camoclone said:
What happened versus Garchomp (I haven't actually tested against it)?
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It was weird. I used Mewtwo to KO Gible's (hitting a lot of heads on Sand Attack), then he missed Energy for several turns, and when he finally used a Garchomp, I switched between the Mewtwo and a Terrakion with 3 Energy and softened up his Garchomp's, and he switched between a Garchomp and a Landorus. I got the Landorus to 150, but he KO'd my Mewtwo with it, then I Catcherd his Jirachi, played a Laser and Hammerheaded both of them. Then he moved all the damage to my Landorus and KO'd it with Garchomp, then he KO'd my Terrakion, then I had no more attackers powered up. At one point I think I flipped tails on a Catcher that would've got me the KO on his Jirachi (which were my last prizes). But I flipped so many heads that game it was understandable.
 
Did you play against any Empire decks?

Speaking of Empire.... What do you do against it???? lose????
 
I really dont see Ho-oh getting a lot of play in the near future, if you look at Ho-oh's big picture, its built on the foundation that one-of attackers will win you the match-up, which makes for dead space which just threw at least half of your attackers out the window. Most sucsessful Ho-oh builds were based off of generally good attackers that dealt a lot of damage, without Ho-oh, a lot of people would look at the deck as a big basics deck, which loses a lot with the rule changes since it was highly reliant on both catcher and the first turn.
 
Baby_BI said:
Did you play against any Empire decks?

Speaking of Empire.... What do you do against it???? lose??
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Uh, I listed all my matches in the thread. I think there was 1 Empire deck out of the 16 players, and it did pretty well. That match up is probably pretty tough. I'd say just go crazy with Mewtwo (or Tonadus EX if you run it), and use Terrakion when necessary. They usually don't run any way to Catcher, so unless you start with Ho-Oh, they can't take any free prizes on you. Overall, I think it'd be unfavorable, but not unwinnable.

You could also try playing a Zekrom with Outrage. They have to either hit it and get KO'd back, or try to Escape Rope around it, until they run out of Escape Rope and they have to hit it. If they run Terrakion, they'll have to take a turn or 2 powering it up, and during those turns, you can load up a Mewtwo. If they run Leafeon, then keep just the right amount of Energy in play so that you can return KO the Leafeon, or KO an Empoleon. I haven't tested the card yet, so take all of this with a grain of salt.
 
What about Dragons Exalted Beautifly? You could run straight Beautifly/Ho-oh and drop 6 different kinds of energy on Ho-oh in 2 turns without having to rebirth at all. if you ran basic energy heavy and 4 of each hammer you could possibly set Ho-oh up for success? Any thoughts?
 
It's not good because Beautifly is a Stage 2; Victini is a nice substitute though being a Basic.
 
How about this guy?

Vivillon - Grass - HP130
Stage 2 - Evolves from Spwepa

[G] Convert Powder: Choose either Sleep or Poison. The opponent's Active Pokemon is now affected by that Special Condition.
[C][C][C] Colorful Wind: 30+ damage. This attack does 30 more damage for each different type of basic Energy attached to this Pokemon.

Weakness: Fire (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 1
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I brushed this card off at first, but with four energy, you're doing 150, the magic number to KO EXes with a silver bangle. (and it still only gives up one prize).
 
pokedan24 said:
How about this guy?

Vivillon - Grass - HP130
Stage 2 - Evolves from Spwepa

[G] Convert Powder: Choose either Sleep or Poison. The opponent's Active Pokemon is now affected by that Special Condition.
[C][C][C] Colorful Wind: 30+ damage. This attack does 30 more damage for each different type of basic Energy attached to this Pokemon.

Weakness: Fire (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 1
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I brushed this card off at first, but with four energy, you're doing 150, the magic number to KO EXes with a silver bangle. (and it still only gives up one prize).
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It's not that unheard of for a Ho-Oh deck to be able to get OHKO's. The big one is Bouffalant with Bangle/Laser/Virbank. Mewtwo also can get OHKO's on rare occasions. There are also the Pokemon in the deck that are there specifically to hit something for weakness and OHKO it. All of these are much easier to use than Vivillon.
 
How about Yveltal EX as a safer alternative to Mewtwo? I've just started considering building Ho-Oh and that seems like a stronger play. Avoiding Mewtwo wars, Deoxys revenge kills and the threat of Sigilyph (beyond Safeguard), while only really fearing Thundurus.
 
Defz3r0 said:
How about Yveltal EX as a safer alternative to Mewtwo? I've just started considering building Ho-Oh and that seems like a stronger play. Avoiding Mewtwo wars, Deoxys revenge kills and the threat of Sigilyph (beyond Safeguard), while only really fearing Thundurus.
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I would consider playing both. The nice thing about Mewtwo in Ho-Oh is that it can attack for Colorless Energy, and can be useful in a wide variety of match ups. While Yveltal is also strong in a lot of match ups, it doesn't attack for Colorless Energy, so you'd need a specific type of Energy to use Yveltal, which is a downside that it has next to Mewtwo. I think both would be pretty solid cards in Ho-Oh in the XY format. But if you find you can fit enough Dark Energies into the deck, and Yveltal just outclasses Mewtwo in almost every way, go ahead and take out Mewtwo.
 
I got 3rd at a Regionals with this Pokemon lineup:

4 Sigilyph (safeguard)
3 Tropius PLB
2 Terrakion (Retaliate)
2 Ho-Oh EX
1 Virizion EX
1 Spiritomb LTR

Also 4 Silver Mirrors to win against Plasma. Sig to block almost everything. Tropius MVP for Blastoise counter, decent attacker against Darkrai and Snorlax, and better Beach. That 10 damage makes magic numbers against VirGen and Snorlax. Ho-Oh stomps VirGen and is acceleration. Terrakion beats Darkrai. Virizion is generally useful for Verdant Wind and sometimes Emerald Slash. Spiritomb prevents surprise Snorlax and Lugia plays and helps more against VirGen. In games the tournament went like this for me.

Yeti: 6-0
VirGen: 4-0
DarkGarb: 4-2 (Played against three in swiss and two ended in a tie because the first two games took too long)
Blastoise: 1-2
Against the stoise in top 4, I lost game 1 because I prized two Tropius, won game 2 like normal, and game 3 went uncompleted so sudden death. Then I lost sudden death because I whiffed T1 N and he got T1 Beach and 2 Squirtles.

Sorry for the mini-report but wanted to get some more discussion on this deck and prove it still is (or was for that format) good.
 
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