Rotation: Rising Rivals and on?

[qnetykz]

I hate when people keep on bringing up this subject. We are not going to know for a few months, so just go with the flow. Don't worry about it, because we will never know.

I know this will be a huge discussion topic at States and other upcoming events, some people like me just don't want their recently built decks to get dismantled in such a short period of time. I already have 2 decks right now that are set for a possible Platinum-On or RR/SV-On format and tearing those decks apart while only having to work on just 3 HGSS sets would just be horrible.

Sure I wouldn't like it as much as some people and I can understand how some people are optimistic about it because it gets rid of the threat of SP decks which IMO Rising Rivals or Supreme Victors-On would be the better choice out of a complete 11 expansion wipe to HeartGold/SoulSilver-On.

Also some SP decks lose vital cards from the Diamond/Pearl sets that make them a powerhouse, Legos a.k.a Palkia Lock loses Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf. Luxray/Garchomp not much, but other than that Legos gets hit the hardest by the rotation.

Without Platinum Base Set and Rising Rivals that cripples SP decks alot, Arceus has cards that still helps the metagame (Spiritomb, Expert Belt, and Charizard for getting around Vileplume Revived Legends) and even though Supreme Victors wasn't that good of an expansion it still had plenty of good cards to offer that can help the next format (Exploud, Staraptor FB Lv. X, Palmer's Contribution, and Vs. Seeker).

Before you think HGSS-On might be a good idea this early which is not, think about how other players would react to it and understand where they're getting at in terms of consistency and deck playability in general.

actually, I'm inclined to agree with GHJamesGH on this...it's not really anything you can do or change about it...it's really just better to go with the flow and hope for the best

as for it being talked about at States...I highly doubt it will be discussed even in the least (if at all), it wasn't discussed last year at States, and it probably won't be discussed this year at States either...most of the hardcore competitive players don't really care...because they are already aware that a rotation may or may not happen, and when it finally does, they prepare themselves for what has been stated that will rotate out and adjust accordingly, or quit if the rotation isn't to their liking

discussing it won't change anything...POP will still rotate what they decide they are going to rotate...discussing it, sounds really just more like venting about something you don't know about and can't change

as for the rotation, remember the rotation after DP came out...there were still a few of the EX series sets in the format...it is possible that they will leave DP sets in the format after rotation...the argument of it not making sense to leave in any DP sets is really a mute point, because the sense of rotating sets is beyond what we, as players, are privy to understand...we are not in the front office of POP, so the sense of it will be something not meant for us...I know people that thought it didn't make sense to have no rotation last year, but it still happened

if you want something to discuss...discuss how to get "net-deckers" to come up with their own original ideas for decks, and ways for them to not be lazy and uncreative when it comes to deckbuilding

 

[Card Slinger J]

CardSlingerJ--I still don't get the argument that the low set numbers would kill the game. A smaller card pool would encourage just as much same-decking as the large pool we have now (Yes, there's bunches of SP variants, but almost all the same core deck). It encourages a little more thinking in my opinion as people would have to use a limited pool to overcome the main deck.

Only reason why there's "same decking" in our current card pool is due to people choosing to netdeck to be competitive or have fun. It's called a lack of deck originality and not going rogue with most builds. Though I can see it can be hard depending on what your local metagame is playing.

Very Limited card pools are good when a brand new TCG/CCG first debuts but you do have a point as it does encourage more thinking when building decks. I've never been a huge fan of sacrificing consistency for inconsistency, something that Yu-Gi-Oh! is really good at in terms of card ratios and deck building.

I'll quote base set to Neo experience again. THe big decks relied on fire pokemon> I built a quagsire deck that started ruling the local tournaments that got countered by a psychic-weak grass deck, and so on, cycling the decks. Right now, with so many cards and the weakness worked out the way it is, there's a lot less ingenuity happening because of the huge card pool because there are so many established, tested and completed deck types, why bother making any new decks?

Why bother making new decks you ask? Because it never hurts to try to be original and going Rogue that's why. The only reason why there's less ingenuity happening is because alot of people netdeck copying off of other people's decks that were already proven to be successful though people who start off playing do it to get the feel of the game's deck ratio and consistency before endevouring their own builds.

I'm very much a victim of netdecking too, but to me I build decks based off what has the best card synergies "combos" that I think are really fun. Though I've been trying recently to stray away from it with a new deck I have that has a synergy that not many people have seen that's been proven to be successful through playtesting, it's not easy but it can be done. I've yet to do more testing on it with some new cards I thrown in as well.

Sadly depending on what the next new format will be I may have to tear apart my new deck in such a short notice for something that I find inconsistent but then again like you said we need more thinking and thought with deck building If HGSS-On does happen. That would cause alot less players to netdeck and build new Rogue decks but yeah, even still just the thought of tearing apart my 2 recent decks in a short amount of time is a bad enough pill to swallow already.

As far as it killing the game, yeah, it'll mad people off, but it's doubtful that it would outright kill it. Somehow, Naruto and DBZ manage to stay afloat with their weird rotation strategy. They actively rotate sets on a 1-in-1-out method and the games are still going. It's not huge, but it's still going. Plus, if they do it once and get a huge backlash, they have time to change before the season gets going or optionally, never do it again.

Naruto's rotation strategy is different from Magic: The Gathering's and Pokemons. Though I don't know how to explain Naruto's since I haven't played that game since 2007 or 2008 I believe? I understand Magic's somewhat. If you're familiar with Standard Type 2 or Extended Type 1 then you'd understand.

As for DBZ you're referring to Bandai's bootleg version which pales in comparison to Score Entertainment's version which had the most original game mechanics and design I've seen in a TCG though it did share elements from Magic: The Gathering of course. Score's version never had rotation, all they had was 2 formats Expanded and Focused. The game did have a Banned/Restricted list with erratas but Expanded format was where all card sets were legal for deck construction (yay no shifting metagame!) as with Focused was just the GT sets that were for deck use only.

 

[pvtGramps]

I loved Score's version of dBZ, wasn't a fan of the sticky meta, but hey, whatever. The system was still fun and you could still mess somebody up with a good Chi Chi deck.

Anyway, It is a different strategy, I'm not suggesting that we pick it or Magic's rotations up, just that those games have vibrant metagames with a small number of sets, that's all. Their design is a little more focused than Pokemon's though, so that probably helps out a lot.

BTW, you should check out Fight Klub sometime, You'd probably get a kick out of it.

 

[qnetykz]

CardSlingerJ--I still don't get the argument that the low set numbers would kill the game. A smaller card pool would encourage just as much same-decking as the large pool we have now (Yes, there's bunches of SP variants, but almost all the same core deck). It encourages a little more thinking in my opinion as people would have to use a limited pool to overcome the main deck.

I'll quote base set to Neo experience again. THe big decks relied on fire pokemon> I built a quagsire deck that started ruling the local tournaments that got countered by a psychic-weak grass deck, and so on, cycling the decks. Right now, with so many cards and the weakness worked out the way it is, there's a lot less ingenuity happening because of the huge card pool because there are so many established, tested and completed deck types, why bother making any new decks?

As far as it killing the game, yeah, it'll mad people off, but it's doubtful that it would outright kill it. Somehow, Naruto and DBZ manage to stay afloat with their weird rotation strategy. They actively rotate sets on a 1-in-1-out method and the games are still going. It's not huge, but it's still going. Plus, if they do it once and get a huge backlash, they have time to change before the season gets going or optionally, never do it again.

the Bandai games have just recently started rotating though...the original DBZ/GT CCG had no rotation at all...but they did have a ban list...however, thanks to Score, the game died due to a complete game shift, which was essentially a complete game rotation...so yes, it can kill a game

less of a card pool, would mean less decks to be able to build...the moment a deck is found that has some proven winning ability, that's essentially the only deck you will see in the meta...which in itself will cause for an extremely stale metagame...I fail to see how you think less of a card pool would cause for greater ingenuity, it's bad enough when they have loads of cards to choose from and have no ingenuity...having less to choose and pick from isn't going to increase their ingenuitive thinking, it will only cause them to be even more lazy and less creative

 

[PokeKid Brandon]

Honestly I beleive that it will be PL-ON format come worlds. However it doesn't really bother me. What comes will come and I will be playing what is put in front of me.

 

[qnetykz]

I loved Score's version of dBZ, wasn't a fan of the sticky meta, but hey, whatever. The system was still fun and you could still mess somebody up with a good Chi Chi deck.

Anyway, It is a different strategy, I'm not suggesting that we pick it or Magic's rotations up, just that those games have vibrant metagames with a small number of sets, that's all. Their design is a little more focused than Pokemon's though, so that probably helps out a lot.

BTW, you should check out Fight Klub sometime, You'd probably get a kick out of it.

yea, I loved it too...the meta wasn't really that bad though...near the end it did become littered with Broly Saiyan decks galore though, but by far it was one of the top 3 most exciting games out, only beaten out in excitement by a game from the same company (Epic Battles)...there were some pretty mean combos, and they were pretty good about taking care of broken combos...there was even one time during a regional that a combo got errata'd right then...yea, I've seen some fun Chi-Chi decks...I took everybody by surprise with my old Trunks Saga Black Maraikoh deck, it was eating most people in 2 combats, and those that weren't done by then, last no longer than 4 combats

Magic's metagame is varied due to the amount of cards that come out in a set, plus they have a fairly balanced release...Pokemon has a somewhat balance when it comes to releases, but there are times when some types get more than others, and sometimes when things aren't neccessarily balanced (SP anyone?)

---

Honestly I beleive that it will be PL-ON format come worlds. However it doesn't really bother me. What comes will come and I will be playing what is put in front of me.

you're not the only one...so long as they don't do an 11-set wipe, I will be playing what is put in front of me as well

 

[juunkmilk]

I don't think it would really make any sense, I mean, if they cut off the entire ex series, they'll prolly cut of the entire d/p series, and not any further. I mean, its not like after the ex sets they cut at mysterious treasures, thats silly.

 

[Card Slinger J]

I was talking with this guy on PokeGym and he thinks that in a Platinum-On format SP's would still be the BDIF which would be obviously true however there's other decks that can beat SP's and can be just as good. He also believes that SP's in a Platinum-On format would hurt game sales more than help it.

It seems that in his meta ALOT of people are running Luxray/Garchomp while relying on Claydol for deck speed and drawpower in order not to get slaughtered by it. Supreme Victors-On is a bad idea as Rising Rivals-On is better than Platinum-On cause it neuters SP's while benefiting other decks that don't and not have to go through the hassle of running certain techs just to keep up with SP's.

There's some people who don't like the idea of Platinum-On being an SP free-for-all which I understand to a degree. SP owning everything doesn't equal best for the overall metagame. Also consider this, how many people are gonna run Fire for Ninetales HGSS after Claydol rotates?

It depends on the rotation itself, If it's Rising Rivals-On then it'd be Flygon, Charizard (duh!), Salamence, and maybe Garchomp. If Supreme Victors-On then Salamence, Garchomp, and Typhlosion which I still see as a lackluster attacker compared to Charizard AR which can swing for more damage than just 70 with Flare Destroy.

Rising Rivals-On would be the best choice POP/PUI or TPCi could make for the 2010-2011 Modified Season. It's better than a SP infested meta with Platinum-On and it's much better than a Supreme Victors-On format which would be "okay" to say the least.

 

[Zora]

LA-on is gonna' be my best bet. That way we can keep Uxie! :X

 

[masterryanx]

It probably doesn't mean anything, but those two promos from the recent player rewards (Lucian's and Upper Energy) are both RR cards. Just sayin'.

As far as it killing the game, yeah, it'll mad people off, but it's doubtful that it would outright kill it. Somehow, Naruto and DBZ manage to stay afloat with their weird rotation strategy. They actively rotate sets on a 1-in-1-out method and the games are still going. It's not huge, but it's still going. Plus, if they do it once and get a huge backlash, they have time to change before the season gets going or optionally, never do it again.

Bandai's DB actually recently kicked the bucket due to poor sales, with only five sets it never really had the chance to get a rotation system. Naruto's block format (essentially one set in, one set out) was only recently introduced. It didn't sit well with many players at first, but a lot of people are now starting to find that it isn't as bad as they thought.

 

[Card Slinger J]

It probably doesn't mean anything, but those two promos from the recent player rewards (Lucian's and Upper Energy) are both RR cards. Just sayin'.

Well they would've meant something If they were Black Star Promos but they're not, Nintendo and POP/PUI have been VERY careful about making reprints Black Star Promos since POP 9 was released with the exception of
Tin Promos even though they are Black Star Promos. Knowing that staple cards like Claydol GE, Uxie LA, and Roseanne's Research would be too good to keep as Black Star Promos they decided to keep them with their regular Expansion symbols so that they will rotate out with their respective sets from the Diamond/Pearl block.

POP 9 will most likely be in the new Modified format, the League Promos for the 2009-2010 Season will not cause they still have their respective Expansion Symbols on the bottom right hand corner of the card itself much like with the 2010 POP Player Reward reprints of Lucian's Assignment and Upper Energy. If Rising Rivals stays in for another Season the Upper Energy and Lucian's Assignment Promos would still be valid for use in Modified for the 2010-2011 Season.

The current League Promos don't count toward Modified Format Rotation in terms of staying in the format after rotation however the POP sets will still be counted for until they've been completely rotated out of Modified and we should be down to 1 POP set currently with POP 9 being the most likely to stay in the format for 1 more Season. POP 8 has already been in the format as long as Diamond/Pearl has without any rotations from last year.