Strategy S&M Data Mining Thread

Z-moves:
Sucker Punch power 80 > 70
Z-Splash grants the user +3 Attack
Z-Destiny Bond forces all users to attack it
Dark Void accuracy 80% > 50%
Z-Geomancy, Z-Celebrate, Z-Happy Hour, Z-Hold Hands, and Z-Conversion raise all stats +1 stage.
Z-Hidden Power always transforms into the Normal-type Breakneck Blitz no matter what type it is
New Move: Brutal Swing. Dark type, 60 BP, hits everyone around it. Also a TM.
Confirm "couldn't fully protect itself" means damaging Z-Moves bypass Protect but deal reduced damage (roughly 25% of original).
Beak Blast is a -3 priority move that burns attackers making physical contact while the move charges (one turn like Focus Punch) (https://twitter.com/pokemon_PhD/status/795976669102297088)
Z-Belly Drum restores HP before deducting the 50%, so it can be used below 50% health (Also From Omega_Donut)
Z-Protect raises crit rate (only looked at data), Z-Detect raises evasion one level
Z-Parting Shot and Z-Memento also restore HP of the incoming Pokemon, no idea how much

Changes:
Gale Wings only works at full health LOL
Pelipper has Drizzle
Torkoal has Drought
Gigalith has Sand Stream
Vanilluxe has Snow Warning
CONFIRMED Gengar has Cursed Body instead of Levitate

https://twitter.com/kaphotics/status/796013713169911814

You can find stats, abilities and movepools on this channel.

(Normal) Pokemon I think might see use:
Lysanroc (Day) - Rock - 75/115/65/55/65/112
Ability: Sand Rush
Interesting Moves: Fire Fang, Thunder Fang, Sucker Punch, Accelrock, Crunch, Stone Edge, Swords Dance
Thoughts: Decent(ish) offensive stats. Enough in its arsenal to find some niche, not enough to really push it to high use.

Toxapex - Poison/Water - 50/63/152/53/142/35
Ability: Merciless (all moves crit if target is poisoned), Regenerator
Interesting Moves: Baneful Bunker (Protect + poisons those who make direct contact), Toxic Spikes, Recover, Toxic, Scald
Thoughts: BIt's not the hardest hitter, or the hardest hit taker, but it's unique. Regenerator + Recover is always an annoying combo, and pretty much every option it has is meant to status you. It could pair well with Heatran or Ferrothron.

Salazzle - Fire/Poison - 68/64/60/111/60/117
Ability: Corrosion
Interesting Moves: Disable, Encore, Toxic, Flamethrower, Dragon Pulse, Fire Blast, Sludge Wave, Nasty Plot
Thoughts: Glass Cannon by definition. Corrosion seems worthless since no Steel-type in their right mind would switch in, but it is useful for neutering Heatran. I actually wish it wasn't Fire-type to bait in Steel-types better.

Silvalley - Normal - 95/95/95/95/95/95
Ability: RKS System
Interesting Moves: Multi-Attack, Iron Head, all elemental fangs, Pursuit, X-Scissor, Crunch, Air Slash, Parting Shot, Dragon Claw, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, Flamethrower, Rock Slide, U-Turn, Surf, Draco Meteor, Flash Cannon
Thoughts: It's not exactly what I wanted, but it did get enough to where I think it could be a prominent threat. A varied movepool and ability to tailor itself to anything your team could need is extremely valuable. U-Turn is a nice surprise to add to its utility, but Parting Shot is an amazing addition.

Dhelmise - Grass/Ghost - 70/131/100/86/90/40
Ability: Steelworker (boosts power of Steel-type moves)
Interesting Moves: Switcheroo, Rapid Spin, Anchor Shot (Steel-type version of Spirit Shackle), Power Whip, Earthquake, Swords Dance
Thoughts: Three STABs, the ability spinblock and spin, and access to Swords Dance. Anchor Shot will make for some interesting situations.

Kommo-o - Dragon/Fighting - 75/110/125/100/105/85
Ability: Bulletproof / Soundproof / Overcoat
Interesting Moves: Clanging Scales, Sky Uppercut, Belly Drum, Automize, Dragon Dance, Dragon Claw, Outrage, Earthquake, Flamethrower, Focus Blast, Poison Jab, Draco Meteor, Swords Dance
Thoughts: It has four ways to boosts its stats and two amazing STABs to sweep with. Decent defenses combined with its abilities should give it plenty of chances to setup. Belly Drum would seem bad on something with no priority, but from what I heard, Belly Drum's Z version restores your health. The major knocks on this thing are its Speed and the fact they didn't give it better Fighting STAB to match its flavor.

Event legends:
Magearna - Steel/Fairy - 80/95/115/130/115/65
Ability: Soul Heart - special version of Moxie
Interesting Moves: Iron Head, Shift Gear, Fleur Cannon (Fairy Draco Meteor), Flash Cannon, Pain Split, Aura Sphere, Calm Mind, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Energy Ball, Volt Switch, Dazzling Gleam, Explosion
Thoughts: The only knock on this thing is its Speed and lack of decent recovery. Could be a decent Calm Mind, Scarf, or Specs user. Overall a great defensive typing placed on something with good offenses and moves. Should be OU.

Marshadow - Ghost/Fighting - 90/125/80/90/90/125
Ability: Technician
Interesting Moves: Fire Punch, Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, Drain Punch, Pursuit, Shadow Sneak, Force Palm, Shadow Punch, Spectral Thief (Steals stat boosts, THEN attacks, 90 BP Ghost), Close Combat, Sucker Punch, Smack Down, Rock Tomb, Poison Jab,
Thoughts: jesus christ, this little guy is /good/. Spectral Thief alone would make it a great revenge killer, but the addition of priority and coverage options is insane.

Thoughts on Tapus:
Tapu Koko - Electric/Fairy - 70/115/85/95/75/130
Ability: Electric Surge
Interesting Moves: Brave Bird, Wild Charge, Nature's Madness (Super Fang), Taunt, Volt Switch, U-Turn, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, Dazzling Gleam, Roost
Thoughts: Good stats, typing, and ability. Limited movepool sucks. Its primary physical options are both recoil heavy, which isn't good news when you look at its defenses. Reminds me of a physical Jolteon.

Tapu Lelu - Psychic/Fairy - 70/85/75/130/115/95
Ability: Psychic Surge
Interesting Moves: Aromatherapy, Psyshock, Nature's Madness (Super Fang), Moonblast, Calm Mind, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Energy Ball, Taunt
Thoughts: Better base Gardevoir.



Thoughts on Ultra Beasts:
Nihelego - Rock/Poison - 109/53/47/127/131/103
Ability: Beast Boost - raises most proficient stat every KO
Interesting Moves: Clear Smog, Toxic Spikes, Power Gem, Stealth Rock, Psyshock, Thunderbolt, Sludge Wave, Psychic, Dazzling Gleam
Thoughts: Decent hazard setter that suffers from low Defense and shoddy typing. No room for both hazards, and lack of recovery prevents it from staying around.

Buzzwole - Bug/Fighting - 107/139/139/53/53/79
Ability: Beast Boost - raises most proficient stat every KO
Interesting Moves: Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, PuP, Leech Life (80 BP now), Taunt, Hammer Arm, Superpower, Focus Punch, Lunge (80 BP Physical Bug move that lowers target's attack), Earthquake, Rock Slide
Thoughts: Physical beast that lacks the Speed, movepool, and SDef to use it. No Megahorn or reliable Fighting STAB is a huge letdown. This is especially terrible for its viability since the next UB on this list exists:

Pheromosa - Bug/Fighting - 71/137/37/137/37/151
Ability: Beast Boost - raises most proficient stat every KO
Interesting Moves: QUIVER DANCE, Low Kick, RAPID SPIN, Hi Jump Kick, Bug Buzz, Ice Beam, Taunt, Roost, Focus Blast, Poison Jab, U-Turn
Thoughts: Is it going to die to any hit? Yes. With a offensive spread like 137/137/151, this doesn't matter. It can bounce around with U-Turn at high speeds, Spin hazards, and pressure walls with decent dual STAB. Absoulutley insane how min-maxed this thing is. Reminds me of a cross between Genesect, Deo-A, and Mega Lopunny.

Xurkitree - Electric - 53/69/71/173/71/83
Ability: Beast Boost - raises most proficient stat every KO
Interesting Moves: Signal Beam, Thunderbolt, Calm Mind, Energy Ball, Volt Switch, Dazzling Gleam, Tail Glow
Thoughts: Ridiculous SAtk is offset by lack of bulk, Speed, and movepool. Why even bother with this? Tail Glow sounds crazy though.

Celesteela - Steel/Flying - 97/101/103/107/101/61
Ability: Beast Boost - raises most proficient stat every KO
Interesting Moves: Air Slash, Leech Seed, Giga Drain, Flash Cannon, Iron Head, Seed Bomb, Heavy Slam, Earthquake, Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Stone Edge, Explosion,
Thoughts: Good balance of every stat, minus Speed. Interesting movepool; it could use any hazard and a good form of recovery, but the inclusion of Giga Drain and Leech Seed is unique. The main concern here is that its too _average_ to be viable.

Kartana - Grass/Steel - 59/181/131/59/31/109
Ability: Beast Boost - raises most proficient stat every KO
Interesting Moves: Sacred Sword, Night Slash, Leaf Blade, X-Scissor, Psycho Cut, Brick Break, Swords Dance
Thoughts: Everything at first looks promising. It has an insane Atk stat backed by one of the best Speed in the game. Defensively, its typing and physical bulk give it good opportunities to switch in. The main issue here is that its movepool is lacking. Nothing I've listed has above 90 base power. It doesn't even have a single Steel-type STAB. Unlike Xurkitree it actually has some tools to do damage with.

Guzzlord - Dark/Dragon - 223/101/53/97/53/43
Ability: Beast Boost - raises most proficient stat every KO
Interesting Moves: Dragon Tail, Iron Tail, Crunch, Hammer Arm, Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Heavy Slam (1957.7), Flamethrower, Sludge Bomb, Fire Blast, Stone Edge, Dark Pulse, Draco Meteor
Thoughts: Definition of a tank. Access to insane bulk, decent offenses, and a varied movepool makes this thing look good. Its typing does leave it with some undesirable weaknesses.

Necrozma - Psychic - 97/107/101/127/89/79
Ability: Prism Armor - reduces power of SE moves
Interesting Moves: Moonlight, Charge Beam, Power Gem, Stealth Rock, Psyshock, Calm Mind, Psychic
Thoughts: No idea how this thing is supposed to fill out a moveset.
 
Unaware only works when you are attacking.

RIP in peace Quagsire
 
Things that stick out to me:

Marshadow: Best new Poke so far. Perfect STAB, 125/125 offenses and a killer signature move with an amazing movepool. It's either going to be high OU or Uber.

Toxapex: I really like this one as a defensive Pokemon. It's movepool is perfect for it, and Regenerator is just icing on the cake. Give it Heatran and Ferrothorn for an excellent FGW core. Definitely OU.

Pallossand: Feels like Hippowdon if you added a Ghost type to it and swapped its attacking stat. Could be a really good partner for Tyranitar.

Minior: Use your 60/100/100 defenses to set up your Shell Smash, then give yourself 100/100/120 offenses at 50% HP to sweep.

Incineroar: Strictly for VGC, you get Intimidate and Fake Out, which is unique to it.

Ninetales: Also for VGC, you get instant Aurora Veil.

Dhelmise: Ghost-type spinner sounds cool.

Golem: The perfect Skarm counter.
 
Don't sleep on the stat buffs, even if some of these will only affect lower tiers.

Mantine, which has always been a special counterpart to Skarmory, has recieved a +20 boost to HP and access to Roost. This puts it at 85/40/70/80/140/70. Its biggest problem since its introduction has been its lack of HP and recovery, both of which are now fixed. With access to Water Absorb, Defog, Hydro Pump, Scald, Air Slash, and now Roost, does anyone see Mantine moving up a few tiers?

Dugtrio's niche as one of the premier trappers in each generation just got deadlier. It's main problem was its mediocre Attack. It now sits at 100 Atk vs 80. Dugtrio usually finds its role in OU at some point in every generation since it got Arena Trap, so expect that trend to continue.

Pelipper gaining Drizzle and an increase to 95 SAtk. Its defenses and weakness to SR make it a liability to Weather teams, but the ability to provide an extra drizzle user with more offense is cool. Perfectly accurate Hurricane + rain boosted Hydro Pump on the switch is unique.

Speaking of weather, Torkoal didn't recieve any stat boosts but the addition of Drought is huge. Its far more supportive and defensive than the other two Drought users we have. For sun teams, its hard to fit both a hazard setter and spinner in your team without sacrificing significant momentum. Torkoal fills both roles while also setting your weather. I wouldn't sleep on Torkoal, even if it's only in lower tiers.

While its not a big change, Crygonal got a slight buff to its weak physical bulk. Not enough to live things it would have kneeled to before, but maybe enough to rise back to RU?

Qwilfish, a mainstay in lower tiers due to its ability to check physical threats, got a slight buff to its Defense. Expect it to stick around for a while longer.

Masquerain jumped to 100 SAtk and 80 Speed. The Quiver Dancing butterfly role is now even more crowded with each having their own merits.

EDIT:

FLYGON GETS DRAGON DANCE NOW, GARCHOMP ON SUICIDE WATCH

Destiny Bond also nerfed. It fails if used repetitively. The nerfs keep coming in for the Gengar clan.
 
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Mantine may have a place in OU now. It's the premier MZard Y counter. I could see it having a role as a bulky Water with Defog.

Dugtrio might get banned with that stat buff.

Pelipper is a better Drizzler than Politoed ever was. I'm excited to try it.

Also exited for Ninetales-A solely because of Aurora Veil. It'll be really useful for HO.

I also want to try Burn Up Arcanine. A 130BP STAB move with no negative side effects sounds really good. Once you lose your Fire type, you either get STAB ExtremeSpeed (if it makes you a Normal type) or you get a Poke with no weaknesses and 90/80/80 bulk with Intimidate and you get recovery (if it makes you typeless).
 
Professor Palutena said:
Mantine may have a place in OU now. It's the premier MZard Y counter. I could see it having a role as a bulky Water with Defog.
Click to expand...


It was also one of the best checks to non-Sub CM Keldeo before these changes. Among other things it can check or counter include Manaphy, Heatran, Scizor, and Volcanion.
 
First they nerf paralysis, now burn. Can't wait until gen 8 when toxic does set damage.

I feel bad for overlooking Dodrio's increase to the benchmark 110 Speed. Turns out it also has gained access to Swords Dance and Jump Kick. Reminder that this bird also has access to Brave Bird, Return, Knock Off, Quick Attack, and Pursuit. This is definetly going to compete with Staraptor for a teamslot. Staraptor is a better wallbreaker and momentum grabber, but there's no question that Dodrio is a better sweeper.
 
Other thing I want to add regarding Pelipper: it's the only weather setter with switch advantage (U-Turn).

Pelipper + MSwamp sounds legit. I really want to try it.

Politoed stats: 90/75/75/90/100/70
Pelipper stats: 60/50/100/95/70/65

252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 150-177 (39.1 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 124-147 (38.2 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Politoed: 163-193 (42.5 - 50.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Pelipper: 204-241 (62.9 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Politoed wins the special side by a fair bit, but Pelipper wins physical especially with roost access. It's a lot easier for rain teams to patch the special side with dudes like Ferro. U-Turn is also worth it.

Pelipper + Dugtrio sounds so good!

TDL we need to teambuild together once the gen gets set up.
 
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Definitely. Looking forward to building around some of these new toys. :f

Bibarel gets Swords Dance and Aqua Jet now. This seems minor when you consider Biberal is doomed to early rodent syndrome with bad stats, but remember it has SIMPLE. Two STAB priority moves and the ability to reach almost 900 Attack is crazy. Might not be that great because its stats drag it down, but it could be a neat gimmick.

+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Bibarel Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 238-281 (71.2 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Bibarel Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Mega Scizor: 281-331 (81.9 - 96.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Bibarel Waterfall vs. 240 HP / 176+ Def Garchomp: 333-394 (79.8 - 94.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Bibarel Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 230-270 (71.2 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Bibarel Quick Attack vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 144-172 (47.5 - 56.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Bibarel Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Mega Sableye: 316-372 (103.9 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Oh yeah, Bibarel does get dual priority STAB.

It dies to Psychic Terrain though, and Tapu Lele is shaping up to be one of the best new Pokes so I think Bibs is pretty niche.

Speaking of Lele though, it's literally a straight buff on Gardevoir with the exception of Hyper Voice in exchange for a Mega Slot. 130 SpA with a Choice Specs boost due to Psychic terrain, and the ability to still hold an item. Choice Specs sets are just crazy.

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele in Psychic Terrain vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 300-354 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Go for a set with Psychic/Moonblast/coverage/coverage and rock it.

Tapu Lele, Toxapex and Marshadow are the three I am so excited to use.

Other thing I want to talk about is Tapu Fini. It feels a lot like Suicune with Defog and Fairy stab. You can't use Rest so bulkier sets aren't possible (your only recovery is Leftovers + Aqua Ring :p), but you're better on the offensive end with Fairy STAB and an immunity to status. Too bad Scald can't burn.

[Surf or Moonblast]/Defog/Taunt/Haze could work, but I like Calm Mind/Hydro Pump/Moonblast/Ice Beam

It's too bad singles doesn't get too many new toys to play with, as so much stuff aims for VGC. Fortunately, what we do get seems to be worth it.

EDIT: Unaware nerf is deconfirmed. Acts just like in Gen 6.
 
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Bumping with an important new discovery for Mega Evos and Hidden Power.

Speed buffs/ability changes are now taken into account the turn you evolve, rather than the turn after.

So this means:
- Diancie gets 110 spe from the get go; it can drop protect
- the same applies to Beedrill
- and literally every other mega with a speed buff; this makes checking fast stuff easier (hi Aerodactyl)
- Banette gets Prankster the turn it evolves
- and Mega Sableye loses it
- Swampert gets Swift Swim buff if its raining

Also on an unrelated note, you can max your IVs while still keeping your hidden power type using the bottle caps. So now Latios won't lost speed from running HP fire.
 
Mega Diancie is the most interesting of those. Not only can it now run both Earth Power and HP Fire, but it can also run the latter while keeping 350 Speed.

I'm excited for the implications this has for Banette and Absol but more likely than not they'll still be terrible.
 
PG24 said:
Celesteela - Steel/Flying - 97/101/103/107/101/61
Ability: Beast Boost - raises most proficient stat every KO
Interesting Moves: Air Slash, Leech Seed, Giga Drain, Flash Cannon, Iron Head, Seed Bomb, Heavy Slam, Earthquake, Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Stone Edge, Explosion,
Thoughts: Good balance of every stat, minus Speed. Interesting movepool; it could use any hazard and a good form of recovery, but the inclusion of Giga Drain and Leech Seed is unique. The main concern here is that its too _average_ to be viable.
Click to expand...

I like this thing. I think it will be difficult to wear down between Leftovers, Leech Seed and an immunity to Sandstorm and most hazards. Earthquake is nice because it means Magnezone can't easily trap it (and it has the SpDef to tank a hit from ScarfZone). Heavy Slam will be able to reach 120-100 BP quite consistently.

I can see a tank set consisting of Heavy Slam / Earthquake / Fire Blast or Protect / Leech Seed
 
uhh okay

nice to know regular sableye can counter itself?
 
Hey, Dark types can spike-block Klefki now.

Also, since it hasn't been mentioned, -ate abilities have been nerfed to 1.2x power rather than 1.3x power. This extends to Alolan Golem's Galvanize and Delcatty's Normalize, which got buffed but it doesn't matter because no one uses Delcatty.
 
Well, the ate nerf is not that big of a deal for megas, considering the buff they got while mega evolving. Pokemon like Mega Pinsir, doesn't need to rely on Quick Attack at the beginning against a fast mons. Mega Gradevoir has already an impressive S.Atk stat to hit a lot of damage. Even on the other side, it doesn't make Mega Salamence less of a threat in OU, imo, but that's a thing to be judged later on.
 
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