Secondary Typings
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PMJ
Silhouette Gloom of the Sundown Lands
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According to what official source?
I'm guilty of this as well, but as a reminder a source like Wikipedia or Bulbapedia isn't a source: instead they are a convenient place to find the actual source.
The thing is I don't know if "Baby Pokémon" has ever been used in an official capacity outside of the TCG. I don't remember it in the video games, but I haven't played any in some time and the only ones I really played thoroughly were the original U.S. Blue, Red and Yellow. As such Bulbapedia is a useful source if we want to get a starting point for defining the term. The criteria it gives are:
Bulbapedia said:
After all if it is a fan designation, than a fan site is a suitable reference point, if only to show one fan definition.
Now again, I don't know the video games very well; someone else will have to fact check the video game data. Also if anyone knows an official non-TCG source that uses the "Baby Pokémon" designation (and obviously not simply to describe Pokémon offspring), that would be great.
PMJ
Silhouette Gloom of the Sundown Lands
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Okay, okay, let's not derail this thread even further.
I didn't really like doing two Stage 2 Fighting-types in a row, so I tried to make them as different as I could (one supports, the other is a tank).
Cradily is fixed. I'm working on Jellicent as we speak. All completed cards have been linked back where I first posted.
I didn't really like doing two Stage 2 Fighting-types in a row, so I tried to make them as different as I could (one supports, the other is a tank).
Cradily is fixed. I'm working on Jellicent as we speak. All completed cards have been linked back where I first posted.
Thats the thing though, flying is a major Pokemon Typing. The colorless type in the TCG repersents normal because it doesn't doesn't really have a type chart, while flying types do. Flying is too closely related to normal type when birds are anything but normal. Not really sure why they have this typing anyway and lets be real for a second, roaring skys was another dragon set, which gave them more support. Sky Field, instead of supporting colorless types, is useable by all decks, unlike the other stadium made, which support only their type.
Since they are spitting the types, this would be a good choice so if we get another "flying" set, it would be filled with colorless dragons again.
First off, I have to say that I think it would be interesting to see Flying as it's own type, as it has to be one of the abundant types in the game (behind Water and Normal at least). Of course realistically it isn't going to happen. Not only is that a new design type for numerous cards in itself but it also requires some addition redesign for other cards if they want it to be good, like making grass and fighting type Pokémon suddenly weak to flying instead of whatever it is they are, usually fire and psychic respectively.
I think it's too bad that Chestnaught is seen from the side, I think the front might be better and to distinguish it from the Emboar that is right at its side.
I think it's too bad that Chestnaught is seen from the side, I think the front might be better and to distinguish it from the Emboar that is right at its side.
Okay, okay, let's not derail this thread even further.
I didn't really like doing two Stage 2 Fighting-types in a row, so I tried to make them as different as I could (one supports, the other is a tank).
Cradily is fixed. I'm working on Jellicent as we speak. All completed cards have been linked back where I first posted.
A few questions
- Why does Chesnaught have 170 HP? It has 150 HP in the Kanto Starter Set, 160 in XY, and it's EX promo has 180.
- I don't think you can have multiple effects in an ability. In unflinching you the effect should either be "This Pokemon can't be affected by any Special Conditions.", "Prevent all damage done to this Pokemon by attacks from your Pokemon", or "Damage done to this Pokemon by an opponent's attack is reduced by 30".
- I don't know why but I really dislike the use of the plush as artwork. I know that we've had those "clay pokemon" but plush dolls? I'm not sure if I'd like that if we had an actual card like that.
This isn't meant to be rude or harsh because I really like your work!
PMJ
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A few answers for you:
Why does Chesnaught have 170 HP? Because I want it to, and for no other reason than that. Yes, it's an absurd amount of HP, but there was a time when 130+ HP for a Stage 2 was breaking the law. I'm also biased because I am a Chesnaught fan. :>
Re: the ability: You are absolutely right but it's the only way I could fit everything in there. :>
Re: the art I don't really like it either but I'm quite picky when it comes to using artwork. Since these are meant to be cards showcasing the lesser-used type, I try not to use art that exemplifies the primary type. (You will also notice that none of these cards have attacks or abilities that reference the primary typing at all.) This is why Delphox and Chesnaught have such stupid artwork - it's really, really hard to find good art that doesn't show off the primary type.
And then sometimes I just can't find good art period, which explains Weepinbell.
Jellicent is taking longer than I thought, mainly cause I was messing around with Photoshop and mainly because I forgot I need to do Frillish, too.
Why does Chesnaught have 170 HP? Because I want it to, and for no other reason than that. Yes, it's an absurd amount of HP, but there was a time when 130+ HP for a Stage 2 was breaking the law. I'm also biased because I am a Chesnaught fan. :>
Re: the ability: You are absolutely right but it's the only way I could fit everything in there. :>
Re: the art I don't really like it either but I'm quite picky when it comes to using artwork. Since these are meant to be cards showcasing the lesser-used type, I try not to use art that exemplifies the primary type. (You will also notice that none of these cards have attacks or abilities that reference the primary typing at all.) This is why Delphox and Chesnaught have such stupid artwork - it's really, really hard to find good art that doesn't show off the primary type.
And then sometimes I just can't find good art period, which explains Weepinbell.
Jellicent is taking longer than I thought, mainly cause I was messing around with Photoshop and mainly because I forgot I need to do Frillish, too.
PMJ
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It's a little of both. Some Pokemon (like Weepinbell) just don't have very good fan art. Other times, the picture is the wrong size. The box for artwork on Pokemon cards is wider than it is tall, so artwork that is taller than it is wide is no good (which is usually the case for bipedal Pokemon such as Delphox). Also no good: artwork that is smaller than the art box. If I blow the image up, I reduce the quality of the image, which is no good. It's also no good if the artist tightly crops the artwork so that the image is square-like; since the art box is rectangular, it doesn't give me a lot of room to resize the artist's work (I can make it smaller without sacrificing quality).
PMJ
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Last update for today
Also added a couple links of cards my op that I don't want to do because I've done them already.
Next on my list is Colorless versions of Flying-type Pokemon that aren't normally Colorless and also aren't in Roaring Skies.
If you guys want to compile a list of all of them, feel free, but I can tell you right now unless that list is like 3 pokes long I won't be doing them all lol
Also added a couple links of cards my op that I don't want to do because I've done them already.
Next on my list is Colorless versions of Flying-type Pokemon that aren't normally Colorless and also aren't in Roaring Skies.
If you guys want to compile a list of all of them, feel free, but I can tell you right now unless that list is like 3 pokes long I won't be doing them all lol
A list, you say?
-Butterfree
-Golbat (Croat does have a Colorless card)
-Gyarados
-Ledian
-Xatu
-Jumpluff
-Mantine
-Beautifly
-Pelipper
-Masquerain
-Ninjask
-Tropius
-Mothim
-Vespiquen
-Drifblim
-Honchkrow
-Yanmega
-Gliscor
-Swoobat
-Sigilyph
-Archeops
-Swanna
-Emolga
-Mandibuzz
-Kami Trio (except Tornadus)
-Talonflame
-Vivillon
-Noivern
-Yveltal
-Butterfree
-Golbat (Croat does have a Colorless card)
-Gyarados
-Ledian
-Xatu
-Jumpluff
-Mantine
-Beautifly
-Pelipper
-Masquerain
-Ninjask
-Tropius
-Mothim
-Vespiquen
-Drifblim
-Honchkrow
-Yanmega
-Gliscor
-Swoobat
-Sigilyph
-Archeops
-Swanna
-Emolga
-Mandibuzz
-Kami Trio (except Tornadus)
-Talonflame
-Vivillon
-Noivern
-Yveltal
Hey it isn't like we are posting Create-a-Cards in a forum titled "TCG News & Discussion".
Though seriously... is there a specific place for CaC's outside of contests here?
If you'd like a real reason, how about the fact that in the source material (the video games), HP scores can range from 1 to 714 (I think). I understand why the TCG uses units of 10 and I don't disagree with that, but it means that even with a range of 30 to 250 (again, I think) for printed HP scores, it acts more like 3 to 25. Though tracking higher HP scores would take some getting used to, it actually doesn't look too bad if you use damage markers (yes, not dice) that follow a pattern similar to U.S. coinage: Pennies = 10 damage, Nickels = 50 damage, Quarters = 250 damage. I left out dimes as they are smaller than the other coins and might confuse younger players, though including them adds another "educational" bit to the TCG.
Wait, why do this? It gives a lot more leeway to what can be done if we up TCG HP scores... unless we simultaneously, similarly increase other factors as well (like damage output). HP doesn't need the range of the video games, but something with enough wiggle room would allow those Pokémon with close but noticeably different video game HP scores to be distinct from each other. Though I also support basing TCG HP on video game HP, Defense and Special Defense as those last two are also important but don't have a universal representation in TCG mechanics (so its just easier to roll them all together). Of course it also all should take a back seat to proper game balance. XD
How does that relate to dual-Type Pokémon getting another Type? Well if the range for HP scores is larger, it isn't so bad if a particular Type gets a bit more HP as a part of its "thing" or another Type intentionally gets a bit less, even if that doesn't quite match up to the video games (again, game balance matters most). If that were the case, you'd have yet another reason to want both Types of a dual-Type to get a card.
PMJ
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TCG HP is very roughly based on VG HP. There are a few exceptions (Wailord has traditionally (maybe always?) had more HP than Blissey in the TCG) but usually if a Pokemon is bulky in VG they will typically have the upper range of that TCG stage's typical HP range.
That said, what you're suggesting ignores that Pokemon TCG HP ratings increase all the time. Look at Charizard, whose HP was initially 120 - the maximum for that era. Even as a Dark Pokemon from Team Rocket, it had 80 HP, which was gigantic for Dark Pokemon of that time. As time went on, Charizard's HP has traditionally been around the maximum of the era. The most recent vanilla Charizard has 160 HP. I don't think it's that strange to see a Pokemon like Chesnaught break this maximum, especially since we are now seeing Pokemon doing 170 damage as a single, unboosted hit, and Pokemon regularly breaking the 200 HP threshold.
That said, what you're suggesting ignores that Pokemon TCG HP ratings increase all the time. Look at Charizard, whose HP was initially 120 - the maximum for that era. Even as a Dark Pokemon from Team Rocket, it had 80 HP, which was gigantic for Dark Pokemon of that time. As time went on, Charizard's HP has traditionally been around the maximum of the era. The most recent vanilla Charizard has 160 HP. I don't think it's that strange to see a Pokemon like Chesnaught break this maximum, especially since we are now seeing Pokemon doing 170 damage as a single, unboosted hit, and Pokemon regularly breaking the 200 HP threshold.
@Jabberwock As the rightfully denied suggester of Crobat, I would rather see a colorless Zubat than Golbat. Of course, you can ignore this if you want since it's your list.
I would even say to keep Zubat/Golbat/Crobat on this list. Yes, Crobat had a colorless type. Let's forget for the moment it's LONG out of rotation and stick with the fact it's not true colorless. It's a Crystal Pokémon that was simply made colorless as a type for simplicity.
This is also the case for Charizard as well, and an M. Charizard Y EX that is colorless would be great. Add a M. Charizard X that is fire type too. I mean it's Charizard, it has to be done...I suppose.
Crobat's link just seems to lead me to Venusaur...who should have a Bulbasaur/Ivysaur edition.
This is also the case for Charizard as well, and an M. Charizard Y EX that is colorless would be great. Add a M. Charizard X that is fire type too. I mean it's Charizard, it has to be done...I suppose.
Crobat's link just seems to lead me to Venusaur...who should have a Bulbasaur/Ivysaur edition.
@PMJ I thought you didn't want people derailing this thread with this kind of thing?
I'm game for discussing it, and I think it since it sprang from discussion on this thread its still acceptable to continue on, but as you drew attention to this earlier, I thought it worth noting. To keep my post a bit short, I'll forgot quoting your text though I will address your comment. Oh, and Spoiler Tags are probably good for those not interested in the side discussion.
I think we've only ever had a single Colorless Charizard and since it was a "Crystal" Pokémon (abandoned gimmick) I don't know if that even counts. I guess since it is a Starter Type and they want to keep the Rock-Paper-Scissor thing going.
I'm game for discussing it, and I think it since it sprang from discussion on this thread its still acceptable to continue on, but as you drew attention to this earlier, I thought it worth noting. To keep my post a bit short, I'll forgot quoting your text though I will address your comment. Oh, and Spoiler Tags are probably good for those not interested in the side discussion.
I've been at this for a while; I'm well aware of how game design is actually done. I am suggesting that it would be better if the HP became more nuanced and learned a bit from the source material. One of the awkward things about the TCG is how it seems like it will partially import something from the video games and then... wonder why it doesn't work the same way when as I stress, it has only been partially imported. Even after adjusting for the inherent differences between a JRPG with a single player campaign and extensive versus mode and a two player TCG.
TCG HP ratings do not increase all the time. They increase over time, but that is not the same as "all the time".. There are specific break points in the game where the typical HP scores increase and where the maximum HP scores increase. Not sure how what I am saying ignores when HP scores do rise (whether the maximum or just what is commonly seen) anyway.
I was supporting that you increased the HP on your Chestnaught; I made a case for increasing HP scores across the board and then for some additional approaches that would likely yield greater HP scores than we have currently seen for Chestnaught. In fact I think your comments might constitute an argument against your own HP increase for it. @_@
So... how about those Charizard, huh?
Base Set (and its re-releases) gave us a massive 120 HP Pokémon... which was awkward. It wasn't a tank in the video games, was it? Well unless a card had a Pokémon Power or attack effect that make it more durable, maxing out its HP was the best way to represent the Pokémon that could take a pounding. As for the actual HP scores, its HP wasn't constantly going up. It hit the max and held there until the maximum was increased, barring certain special mechanic cards, with the occasional version actually dipping below whatever the current maximum was. This means there were often years between releases of it and even longer between its HP score going up. If HP scores had steadily been going up, than even without being a Mega Evolution, we'd have a Charizard that was well over 200 HP.
TCG HP ratings do not increase all the time. They increase over time, but that is not the same as "all the time".. There are specific break points in the game where the typical HP scores increase and where the maximum HP scores increase. Not sure how what I am saying ignores when HP scores do rise (whether the maximum or just what is commonly seen) anyway.
I was supporting that you increased the HP on your Chestnaught; I made a case for increasing HP scores across the board and then for some additional approaches that would likely yield greater HP scores than we have currently seen for Chestnaught. In fact I think your comments might constitute an argument against your own HP increase for it. @_@
So... how about those Charizard, huh?
Base Set (and its re-releases) gave us a massive 120 HP Pokémon... which was awkward. It wasn't a tank in the video games, was it? Well unless a card had a Pokémon Power or attack effect that make it more durable, maxing out its HP was the best way to represent the Pokémon that could take a pounding. As for the actual HP scores, its HP wasn't constantly going up. It hit the max and held there until the maximum was increased, barring certain special mechanic cards, with the occasional version actually dipping below whatever the current maximum was. This means there were often years between releases of it and even longer between its HP score going up. If HP scores had steadily been going up, than even without being a Mega Evolution, we'd have a Charizard that was well over 200 HP.
I think we've only ever had a single Colorless Charizard and since it was a "Crystal" Pokémon (abandoned gimmick) I don't know if that even counts. I guess since it is a Starter Type and they want to keep the Rock-Paper-Scissor thing going.
PMJ
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Otaku:
Everyone else and also Otaku:
Thank you, Jabberwock, for the list of pokes. Looking at all of the options, I don't really like any of them, but here is everyone who made the first round cut:
-Butterfree
-Ledyba and Ledian
-Tropius
-Mothim
-Honchkrow
I'll revisit the list once I complete these cards. Now I'm off to find some Butterfree art.
What I meant when I said "all the time" was "over time". Saying they increase over time is more correct.
When I initially read your post, I got the impression that you were against my giving Chesnaught 170 HP because his VG base HP is only 88, which would mean that a HP of maybe 120 or 130 was more appropriate. As I read it again, I see that that's not what you were saying.
The point I was trying to make with the Charizard reference is that his HP has always been at or close to the max of the era, despite not having a ton of VG HP. Again, I thought you were trying to argue that I had a real reason to give him less HP, and that was the whole VG thing. Now that I'm not super tired, I get it now.
When I initially read your post, I got the impression that you were against my giving Chesnaught 170 HP because his VG base HP is only 88, which would mean that a HP of maybe 120 or 130 was more appropriate. As I read it again, I see that that's not what you were saying.
The point I was trying to make with the Charizard reference is that his HP has always been at or close to the max of the era, despite not having a ton of VG HP. Again, I thought you were trying to argue that I had a real reason to give him less HP, and that was the whole VG thing. Now that I'm not super tired, I get it now.
Everyone else and also Otaku:
Thank you, Jabberwock, for the list of pokes. Looking at all of the options, I don't really like any of them, but here is everyone who made the first round cut:
-Butterfree
-Ledyba and Ledian
-Tropius
-Mothim
-Honchkrow
I'll revisit the list once I complete these cards. Now I'm off to find some Butterfree art.
Hey it isn't like we are posting Create-a-Cards in a forum titled "TCG News & Discussion".
Though seriously... is there a specific place for CaC's outside of contests here?
It was intended to be a discussion about secondary types when I made the thread it just evolved that way.