Seismic Punch (Seismetoad)

[mattpoke]

Experience: Novice
I had some extra cards lying around and was thinking of reviving this deck. I think it's fun to play but I'd like some advice on making it more reliable and playable in the metagame. Thanks in advance!

Pokemon 18

• 4 Tympole
• 1 Palpitoad
• 4 Seismitoad
• 2 Manaphy
• 2 Voltorb
• 1 Electrode
• 2 Mr. Mime
• 2 Deoxys EX

Trainers - 30

• 3 Professor Juniper
• 2 N
• 1 Red Card
• 2 Skyla
• 4 Rare Candy
• 3 Team Plasma Ball
• 2 Ultra Ball
• 2 Pokemon Catcher
• 2 Tool Scrapper
• 2 Super Rod
• 2 Frozen City
• 2 Muscle Band
• 1 Silver Bangle
• 2 Escape Rope

Energy - 12

• 10 Water Energy
• 2 DCE

Strategy
Main attack is Seismitoad's Seismic Punch. Mr. Mime is there to block the damage Seismitoad does to your bench. Manaphy to setup and Deoxys to power up Seismitoad. Electrode for extra draws if needed. Any suggestions?

Notes:

• I'm not sure if Muscle Bands and Silver Bangles are worth including in this deck.
• Dusknoir for sure to spread the damage around, but seems costly and might be rotated out soon. (Meowstic might be an option in the future but will use a turn to spread out dmg)
• I'm thinking of swapping out the 2-1 Electrode line for a 1-1 Delphox and +1 Palpitoad for more pulls
• I can see this deck losing horribly to Plasma counters or Vir/Gen decks. I'd like some advice on how to counter these weaknesses.

 

[Ivy_Profen]

RE: Seismic Punch Deck

Muscle band and Silver Bangle are pretty great cards in general. They should be added to any deck they can fit into that doesnt use shenanigans like Gourgeist to win. 20-30 more damage is pretty great. It can change the max damage output of your attack from 150 to 170 or 180. Giving you enough damage to knock out any pokemon you choose, aside from megas.

Dusknoir was reprinted in plasma blast. I dont think that card will cycle out anytime soon. If it does they would probably cycle out the entire BW set which doesnt seem likely at this point in time. Also with the release of the next set. Another dusknoir is being release which might even make this deck even better. It allows you to move damage around on ur side of the field and then attack, throwing that damage at your opponent active. Next turn being able to move that damage around as well. This may remove the need for Mr Mime in some respects. Though plays would need to be careful still. The addition of that card to the deck could drastically change the whole deck itself. Changing the basic energy to psychic, adding in a few plasma for deoxys and now you can even attack with deoxys if things go bad against Yevltal.

For Electrode/voltorb/manaphy. They aren't completely needed for this deck. Granted being able to draw up to 4 every turn is helpful. It would be better to include a 1-1/2-2 dusknoir line instead. I find that Dusknoir is the only way this deck can actually compete with the rest of the metagame at all. Being able to focus down the current threats is just too valuable.

Drop 2 water energy and put 2 more double colorless in. This deck runs on DCE, so run a playset.

This deck also need more supporters. Even with electrode. you need 4 Juniper 4 other draw support at the very least. When combined with Skyla. My current favorite supporter lineup is 4 Juniper, 2 N, 2 Shauna, 3 Skyla, and 1 Bianca. Though the bianca is only there because i have a FA so its a must have. If not i would probably run 3 N instead.

If you can get a hold of a Dowsing machine it would be a really helpful ace spec. Its also fairly cheap as far as i can tell. it would be $4 from my local card shop.

As for VirGen decks. You can try teching in Reshiram with Outrage. If genesect/Virizion choose to attack Reshiram. It can follow up with outrage for a double colorless and hit for double damage. If not you could try changing your basic energy to fire and adding some 1 or 2 fire type attackers. Cause lets be honest. You are only really planning to attack with Seismic Punch, and it only requires colorless energy.

There are also not as many plasma counters out there anymore. There are some still that will pop up. But unless plasma starts doing well in tournaments and winning a few big ones. It wont be super popular. So people wont heavily tech against it. Just know the metagame around you.

 

[mattpoke]

Thanks Ivy_Profen for your detailed explanation! Looks like the deck is a little bit more versatile in terms of attackers than I'd expect. I'll play around with your suggestions and see how it goes.

 

[OblivionDvdr]

You can actually make a deck that is similar to this but more consistent using Gourgeist with Dusknoir. With the new set it'll be a strong spread deck, and it has a lot of options to play with. One of them (albiet a bit expensive) is Trevenant, which can slow the opponent down a lot, allowing you to set up. Another good option could be Sigilyph, because EX's are obviously quite popular. It's a versatile spread Eco that has a lot of neat options, and it's very similar to your deck, I just feel it has more power and speed. At the least, consider Gourgeist, because he goes for pretty cheap (about $1.30 maybe) so it also won't break the bank, and it's easier to set up than Seismitoad. Just my 2 cents anyway.

 

[Ivy_Profen]

The only real difference is gourgeist takes 2 turn to charge at least. While Seismitoad only takes 1. Dusknoir included in Gourgeists decks require you to include rare candy just for Dusknoir. Which is too bad. It also has lower HP and a worse weakness than Seismitoad. Seismitoad hits harder as well, when including stuff like deoxys and other thing. The only thing Gourgeist has going for it is that it drops damage counters rather then doing actual damage. Which in itself is sort of a bad thing at the same time. Making muslce band/any other power boosting completely useless. But it cant be blocked by mr mime.

Is Gourgeist more consistent? Maybe in certain ways. Like it always does consistent damage, and sets up more consistently. But Seismitoad can do more overall damage, can charge quicker and with rare candy, can evolve just as fast.

 

[OblivionDvdr]

The only real difference is gourgeist takes 2 turn to charge at least. While Seismitoad only takes 1. Dusknoir included in Gourgeists decks require you to include rare candy just for Dusknoir. Which is too bad. It also has lower HP and a worse weakness than Seismitoad. Seismitoad hits harder as well, when including stuff like deoxys and other thing. The only thing Gourgeist has going for it is that it drops damage counters rather then doing actual damage. Which in itself is sort of a bad thing at the same time. Making muslce band/any other power boosting completely useless. But it cant be blocked by mr mime.

Is Gourgeist more consistent? Maybe in certain ways. Like it always does consistent damage, and sets up more consistently. But Seismitoad can do more overall damage, can charge quicker and with rare candy, can evolve just as fast.

I see your point. I suppose my reasoning behind Gourgiest is that it's easier to set up your attacker than your support, whereas Seismitoad is the other way around. Gourgeist's spread attack only costs the 1 basic psychic too, and it's other attack can be nice if you have the chance to use it.

I'm also not too sure that Gourgiest's weakness matters all that much. 100 hp is gonna get OHKO'ed by most meta decks anyway. That being said, Siesmitoad, even with its 140 hp is fairly frail, if a deck relay needs a KO on it, most of the time they can find a way.

Your point is very true though, because Seismitoad is capable of dealing 60-70 damage to the active as well as their bench. That (obviously) is very powerful considering you also do 30 to everything else. With respects to power, Seismitoad wins out.

In that case Seismitoad vs. Gourgist is raw power vs. versatility/consistency. Having say, Trevenant around is in Gourgiest's favor, but averaging 120+ damage across the board for 2 energy (1 with DCE) is difficult to ignore. The only other issue is that you need a Mr. Mime out, otherwise you'll just destroy yourself.

Then, one must consider Gourgeist's second attack. If you can get it off, you're gonna usually do 160 (if the have an EX out) and with any other damage in the board, Dusknoir can go to town.

Dusknoir is also more difficult to get out in Siesmitoad because it's a second stage 2, but it can still be done, and once you get it out late game you can just clean up.

So which is better? There really is no answer. It comes down to preference, as they're both similar, but they have their own pros and cons. I stand by Gourgeist, however, Siesmitoad is still perfectly valid.

 

[mattpoke]

RE: Seismic Punch (Seismitoad)

Would it be possible to incorporate both Gourgeist and Seismitoad (and change the water energies to psychic)? into the same deck to give me more setup options? Seems like these 2 cards pretty much do the same thing.

I can possibly add some HTLs to use in conjunction with Gourgeist's 2nd attack to prevent the active Poke to switch out or get heals from Max Potion. One could argue that I should just go with a pure Gourgeist + HTL deck but I'm not too confident with running a low average HP pool and with only Gourgeist, it seems like a war of attrition. Just my thoughts. I could be wrong though. so here's what I'm thinking for now:

-1/0/1 Seismitoad
-2 Manaphy
-2/1 Electrode
+2/2 Gourgeist
+2/1 Dusknoir

+2 Skyla
+2 HTL
-1 Team Plasma Ball
-2 Frozen City
-1 Silver Bangle

...And I just realized I misspelled Seismitoad on the Thread subject. lol

 

[Ivy_Profen]

Dont do both pokemon lines. That just lowers your consistency on both. Just run with Seismitoad. But still drop Manaphy. Dont add HTL. Theres no point to that.

Probably:
-10Water Energy
-1 Red Card
-2 Manapy
-2 Pokemon Catcher
-1 Super Rod
-3 Team Plasma Ball

+4 Psychic Energy
+2 Plasma Energy
+2 DCE
+1 Juniper
+2 Shauna
+1-1 Dusnkoir
+1 Skyla
+1 Palpitoad
+1 Dowsing Machine (ACE)
+1 Electrode
+2 Level Ball

Anyway this would be my suggestion. Change water energy to psychic, drop a few for dce and drop a few more for plasma energy so you can use it on deoxys. This deck also needs more supporters. 1 more juniper, 1 skyla, 2 shauna/N, either will actually work. If you add Shauna you aim to take prizes whenever possible and take out all the threats as soon as you can. With N you aim to keep the damage spread out and take all 6 prizes in one turn. This way N gives you 6 cards to draw every times while slowly lowering for your opponent since they are probably slowly taking prizes.

Your aim is to get out seismitoad asap and throw a DCE on to it. Either way take out plasma balls and add level balls. Getting out your basics is the most important thing. You can draw into level balls and grab Tympol, palpitoad, electrode, or voltorb. The ultra balls are to get your evolutions out when you need them and deoxys. Though they also can grab anything.

You forgot an ACE SPEC. Which is quite unfortunate. Dowsing machine is best for decks that use rare candy or alot of useful trainers. It provides 1 more of any trainer card in your deck. Which allows you to lower super rod to 1.

Red card isnt that great. Good turn 1 but other than that. Its meh. Your opponent tends to have 4 or less cards generally anyway. it also gives them a fresh 4 cards, which could be bad for you. Unless they junk hunt or something.

Pokemon catchers are flippy so i would take them out.

 

[mattpoke]

Cool. Thanks for your input!