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Expanded Shiftry / Seismitoad EX

OGarciaUHXA

OGarciaUHXA

OscarTCG (YT)
Member
Hey guys, here is a deck list I have been messing around with and playing a lot online. It is surprisingly consistent, winning me 9/10 games so far, and sure that's not a lot of play testing, but that's why I am here with it now to see what you guys think! Its power output isn't super high, but its not exactly necessary with the strategy. Check out the list.

Pokemon: 16
  • 4 Seedot (FLF)
  • 3 Nuzleaf (FLF)
  • 4 Shiftry (NXD)
  • 3 Seismitoad EX (FUF)
  • 1 Shaymin EX (ROS)
  • 1 Suicune (PLB)
Trainers: 36
  • 4 Professor Juniper
  • 3 N
  • 2 Colress
  • 2 Pokemon Fan Club
  • 1 Skyla
  • 1 AZ
  • 4 VS Seeker
  • 4 Rare Candy
  • 4 Devolution Spray
  • 3 Muscle Band
  • 3 Ultra Ball
  • 3 Super Scoop Up
  • 1 Computer Search
  • 1 Repeat Ball
Energy: 8
  • 4 Double Colorless Energy
  • 4 Water Energy
Strategy

The strategy is pretty simple. Use Toad as we have been using him over the last year, muscle band, DCE, and apply the item lock. While on the bench, building up the Seedot lines, and using Shiftry's Giant Fan Ability to try and get heads and rid our opponents field of Pokemon. Limiting them with item lock and quaking punch, and using giant fan over and over (AZ, devolution spray, super scoop up if we have to) I often find that quaking punch gets 1-2 knockouts by the time Giant Fan sweeps everybody away. Shaymin is a 1 of, because Set Up helps once or twice (super scoop or AZ), but we want to reserve more bench space for Shiftry's. I haven't looked too much at how AO will affect it, but this is my current list.

Possible techs:
Bunnelby. Ancient trait from Primal Clash. 1-2 of these bad boys allows us to Rototiller devolution sprays over and over, super scoop ups, AZ's and computer search. I have tried to fit it instead of Suicune, but I do like the EX disruption Suicune offers.

Sacred Ash. I need to definitely add at least one, Seedots can go down easily, or Lysandre on a Nuzleaf waiting to evolve, and we can run out of Giant Fan pretty quickly.

What do you guys think?
 
Dang dude, the strat seems pretty legit and consistent sounding. I think the toad is def a good touch and idea. Also the idea of adding bunnelby to cause them to deck out is even more nuts. I do not really see any other changes I would make, personally. Just keep play testing and post back what else you find out
 
I don't think Bunnelby will help too much because you want to be attacking with Toad but still, I am going to have to test this when AOR comes out.
 
Yeah, maybe a 1 line as a help. It takes 1 to attack, and can attack twice, and even mixed in with Seismitoad, I have been able to rototiller for 2 devo sprays, drew one next turn, and won the game lol. Its hard to fit so many good techs into 60 cards!
 
This looks pretty damn cool, and I was just thinking about getting into expanded. Say, since Devolution Spray is apparently so important, could Dowsing Machine be a better play than Computer Search? Have you tested it?

I'm a little concerned about Bunnelby, because if you attack with it you can't Quaking Punch that turn, and a turn without item lock could easily undo all your hard work emptying your opponent's board. :(

Edit: it's a Seismitoad deck, so I feel obligated to ask if laserbank would work, especially since you don't have a stadium in here. It looks to me like there isn't enough room, but I'm wondering if you've tried that sort of build yet.
 
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Naglfar said:
This looks pretty damn cool, and I was just thinking about getting into expanded. Say, since Devolution Spray is apparently so important, could Dowsing Machine be a better play than Computer Search? Have you tested it?

I'm a little concerned about Bunnelby, because if you attack with it you can't Quaking Punch that turn, and a turn without item lock could easily undo all your hard work emptying your opponent's board. :(

Edit: it's a Seismitoad deck, so I feel obligated to ask if laserbank would work, especially since you don't have a stadium in here. It looks to me like there isn't enough room, but I'm wondering if you've tried that sort of build yet.
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Yeah i always thought I would be missing LaserVirbank but I actually have done fine without it! I have actually thought of using 3 paint rollers, which destroy opponent stadiums and provide a card for a bit more draw.

It is always hard to decide between Comp or Dowsing, but i feel its more crucial to grab that nuzleaf or that devo spray or the rare candy then to search the discard for something. I will for sure twst out with dowsing but computer search has been clutch so far! Thanks for the suggestions!!
 
When Ancient Origins comes out I would recommend adding some forest of giant plants to evolve Shiftry faster.
 
So I've played a little bit of solitaire with this list, which is hardly the requisite qualification to tell you what to do, but here's what I've noticed:

- Fan Club and Repeat Ball seem weak. Fan Club is a supporter, while Repeat Ball is only really useful in that weird no-man's-land where you've already started setting up but haven't finished yet. Since Ultra Ball fetches everything else just fine I'd much rather play Level Ball, which serves the critical role of pulling those uncooperative Seedots out of your deck early in the game for no cost. Plus it can grab Nuzleaf, as well as...
- Jirachi-EX. The deck is just a little bit clunky, and maybe it's just my style, but I feel like we need all the efficient tutor effects we can get. The only real problem is that it's a terrible starter, but even on the rare occasions when that happens, I don't think it's back-breakingly costly for this deck to get it out of the active spot.
- I don't know how I feel about the numbers. I kind of want to prioritise N over Sycamore, since there's a lot here that kind of hurts to have to discard. I also don't see the need for quite so many Muscle Bands. Maybe swap one out for the fourth Super Scoop Up, especially since that card is so flexible and easy to find a use for.
- Yeah, Forest of Giant Plants is really going to push this over the top. The number one thing that isn't quite up to snuff about this deck is the fact that Broken Vine-Space isn't legal yet. My god, I'm excited to see what happens when AOR releases. There's talk of a Shiftry donk deck that would work kind of like this, but it sounds sort of inconsistent and I much prefer the idea of pairing it with Seismitoad. I like consistency, and I would rather pilot a deck that can handle playing longer games, with a the occasional donk as a bonus. And as another bonus, Toad is well positioned against all the fire pokemon we might start seeing because of this insane new grass stadium. Nice.
- I think Computer Search over Dowsing Machine is the right call after all. Consistency wins games, and Dowsing was just a bit too greedy of an idea. Speaking of consistency, I want to try to find some space for some Trainers' Mails. I guess I'll work on that after we get that juicy stadium.
 
Naglfar said:
So I've played a little bit of solitaire with this list, which is hardly the requisite qualification to tell you what to do, but here's what I've noticed:

- Fan Club and Repeat Ball seem weak. Fan Club is a supporter, while Repeat Ball is only really useful in that weird no-man's-land where you've already started setting up but haven't finished yet. Since Ultra Ball fetches everything else just fine I'd much rather play Level Ball, which serves the critical role of pulling those uncooperative Seedots out of your deck early in the game for no cost. Plus it can grab Nuzleaf, as well as...
- Jirachi-EX. The deck is just a little bit clunky, and maybe it's just my style, but I feel like we need all the efficient tutor effects we can get. The only real problem is that it's a terrible starter, but even on the rare occasions when that happens, I don't think it's back-breakingly costly for this deck to get it out of the active spot.
- I don't know how I feel about the numbers. I kind of want to prioritise N over Sycamore, since there's a lot here that kind of hurts to have to discard. I also don't see the need for quite so many Muscle Bands. Maybe swap one out for the fourth Super Scoop Up, especially since that card is so flexible and easy to find a use for.
- Yeah, Forest of Giant Plants is really going to push this over the top. The number one thing that isn't quite up to snuff about this deck is the fact that Broken Vine-Space isn't legal yet. My god, I'm excited to see what happens when AOR releases. There's talk of a Shiftry donk deck that would work kind of like this, but it sounds sort of inconsistent and I much prefer the idea of pairing it with Seismitoad. I like consistency, and I would rather pilot a deck that can handle playing longer games, with a the occasional donk as a bonus. And as another bonus, Toad is well positioned against all the fire pokemon we might start seeing because of this insane new grass stadium. Nice.
- I think Computer Search over Dowsing Machine is the right call after all. Consistency wins games, and Dowsing was just a bit too greedy of an idea. Speaking of consistency, I want to try to find some space for some Trainers' Mails. I guess I'll work on that after we get that juicy stadium.
Click to expand...

Thanks for checking it out! After a few more days of testing, I ended up taking out the Fan club as well, and level ball sounds good as well over repeat ball.
The Grass stadium will help alot I think, if possible to get turn 1 Nuzleafs preparing for turn 2 Shiftry's is crazy cool. Haha. Some more tinkering, but currently I'm still happy with the early build. I havent had too much trouble in situations where I've had to Sycamore, but I can see what you are saying, maybe max N is a good choice, and max Super Scoop Ups. Thanks for giving it a few test runs, and after building it IRL, i hope it continues to work well now for me haha.
 
The deck has been built in person, and testing has begun! Super pumped. Will come back and give you guys an insight as to what it's like with Giant Plant Forest, lol. :D
 
As has been said, Giant Plant Forest should put this over the top. Also, and I know it's just been revealed today and won't be out for months, I'm also interested in what Parallel City could do for this deck. Will be keeping an eye on this deck in the coming weeks and months. I like it a lot.
 
Kuja89 said:
As has been said, Giant Plant Forest should put this over the top. Also, and I know it's just been revealed today and won't be out for months, I'm also interested in what Parallel City could do for this deck. Will be keeping an eye on this deck in the coming weeks and months. I like it a lot.
Click to expand...

Haha! I wish you saw my reaction when I read Parallel City! That card is cool. Doesn't help Seismitoad too much but again, item lock is the focus here, and less targets for Shiftry.... oh boy..... :D:p
 
So according to PTCGO, Devolution Spray prevents you from evolving again in the same turn even if you have Forest of Giant Plants active. As far as I recall, it worked this way for me except for in a single case in which it did let me put the Shiftry right back down again, and I can't imagine what might have been special about that instance apart from recycling the same Shiftry earlier in the turn with AZ. I dunno, I think the card might just be bugged, unless I somehow completely lost track of what was actually happening on the board that one time. I'll have to experiment some more, and take the issue to the rulings subforum.
 
Okay, I'm not crazy. The ruling appears to be that if the pokemon left behind by Devolution Spray entered play that turn - most commonly in our case, the Nuzleaf underneath our Shiftry - the effect of Forest of Giant Plants will let it evolve again. But somewhat counter-intuitively, Broken Vine-Space has no effect on pokemon that have been in play since a previous turn, thus there will be nothing to override the clause on Devo that prevents evolution (not that Forest should interact with that in the first place...?), so if that Nuzleaf hadn't been put down in the same turn, you won't be able to slap your Shiftry back onto it right away.

This is super weird. Whether the text in parentheses on Devolution Spray is reminder text or not, the rule is apparently that pokemon can't evolve on the first turn, on the turn they're played, or on the turn they're devolved, and that Forest of Giant Plants doesn't bypass the first two clauses specifically so much as it allows pokemon that just entered play to evolve regardless of any rules that would prevent them from doing so...? That doesn't make sense.

Unless PTCGO just got the ruling wrong. I can totally see how, depending on how the can-evolve-can't-evolve flags are programmed, a bizarre interaction involving an obscure mechanic might not work correctly. I can also see how the game state continuing to keep track of when an object entered play even after another object essentially replaces it is really silly and quite possibly not a thing in the rules. So the only thing I'm confident about here is how the interaction works in the online game specifically. Christ, what a headache. Ahem. Judge!
 
Naglfar said:
Okay, I'm not crazy. The ruling appears to be that if the pokemon left behind by Devolution Spray entered play that turn - most commonly in our case, the Nuzleaf underneath our Shiftry - the effect of Forest of Giant Plants will let it evolve again. But somewhat counter-intuitively, Broken Vine-Space has no effect on pokemon that have been in play since a previous turn, thus there will be nothing to override the clause on Devo that prevents evolution (not that Forest should interact with that in the first place...?), so if that Nuzleaf hadn't been put down in the same turn, you won't be able to slap your Shiftry back onto it right away.

This is super weird. Whether the text in parentheses on Devolution Spray is reminder text or not, the rule is apparently that pokemon can't evolve on the first turn, on the turn they're played, or on the turn they're devolved, and that Forest of Giant Plants doesn't bypass the first two clauses specifically so much as it allows pokemon that just entered play to evolve regardless of any rules that would prevent them from doing so...? That doesn't make sense.

Unless PTCGO just got the ruling wrong. I can totally see how, depending on how the can-evolve-can't-evolve flags are programmed, a bizarre interaction involving an obscure mechanic might not work correctly. I can also see how the game state continuing to keep track of when an object entered play even after another object essentially replaces it is really silly and quite possibly not a thing in the rules. So the only thing I'm confident about here is how the interaction works in the online game specifically. Christ, what a headache. Ahem. Judge!
Click to expand...

Got a headache just reading this! Haha! It'll be interesting to see what is decided. I see what you mean about Devo and Forest countering at one another though, because the text of devo says one thing, and the other contradicts it, I would assume that the forest comes out on top, but who knows!
 
I reckon you don't need any other Pokemon in the deck other than a line of Shiftry. Go for that turn one win, get more supporters and items instead of other pokemon which are counter-intuitive to your main strategy.
 
Jorgie said:
I reckon you don't need any other Pokemon in the deck other than a line of Shiftry. Go for that turn one win, get more supporters and items instead of other pokemon which are counter-intuitive to your main strategy.
Click to expand...
Considering that everyone ever is going to be trying Shiftry donk, I personally would rather test this variant for now and let other people figure out if the donk list is consistent enough to be worth playing.

I mean, if it is consistent enough to be viable, people will start teching against it and its winrate will drop to unacceptable levels anyway. Unless Shiftry donk turns out to be completely and utterly broken, I just can't imagine it performing well in tournaments outside of a few isolated cases.
 
I'm going to try this list becauase Shiftry Donk is getting a lot of steam on the expanded Tourneys on the PTGO game. I'm going to try this or maybe add a few of the new Baltoys to shut down the mirror match vs Shiftry Donk.
 
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