Should TPCi sell precons in lieu of some of the box sets?

[signofzeta]

In the year 2012, we have these box sets.

Mewtwo
Forces of Nature
Kyurem
Superb Serperior, Excellent Emboar, and Spectacular Samurott
Double Album
Keldeo
Dragon vault, or whatever it was called.

Which of these do you think are useless? Do you think that TPCi should release less of these things, more of these things, or are they perfect they way they are?

I mentioned in the Merchandise help thread that TPCi should make epic collection decks annually, twice a year, and release in sets of 2, that is, you have 2 choices to pick from twice a year, but I'm afraid that what I ask may be buried beneath other questions. Japan releases precons with EX cards and all those powerful stuff, so I was thinking, rather than releasing those promos as part of a box set that includes some garbage boosters, release them as part of a precon.

Here's the rule of how these precons are made. They are basically made the same way as the epic collection decks from 2007, the ones with Meganium ex and friends.

1. They can use any card that is modified legal in the deck at the time of release, and is not limited to pokemon from one set. As such they contain a wider range of cards than theme decks and are modified legal.

2. They MUST be better than theme decks.

3. They must be tournament ready, right out of the box, and built like an average tournament type of deck. It must not win all the games though.

4. As said before, these things are to be released annually, twice a year, in sets of 2 or 3.

5. The cover card is an alternate art version of a powerful card, typically EX cards, but it could be any other powerful card. The cover card is NOT exclusive to the deck. The cover card must also be a card from one of the latest 2 sets. The rest can be any modified legal card.

6. The cards within retain the expansion symbols of the original set they were from.

7. All epic collection decks must have the same amount of rares. I don't know what is a good number, but I guess 5, including the cover card. The Epic collection decks of 2007 had 3, so I don't know.

8. These come with all the knick knacks that theme decks have. FULL? Rulebook, Coin, Playmat, and a sheet talking about tournaments.

So if these are released instead, would you buy them, or would you rather have those box sets? They cost the same as a typical box set. $20 to $25.

I also made a release pattern on how TPCi should release these things in a typical year.

Set 1 February
Tins March
Set 2 May
Epic Collection June
Set 3 August
Tins September
Set 4 November
Epic Collection December

As such, I'd say these things could be released every June and December. For January, April, July, and October, they can release whatever box set they want.

 

[Mudkip711]

Getting these would be nice, but it'd never happen. Why would they want to give us a, let's say, $15 card in one of those boxes for $10 when they could just keep them in booster packs and make triple the money on.

 

[signofzeta]

Getting these would be nice, but it'd never happen. Why would they want to give us a, let's say, $15 card in one of those boxes for $10 when they could just keep them in booster packs and make triple the money on.

you didn't read the part about the price didn't you? I also forgot to mention these come with coin, damage counters, and every knick knack that a theme deck has. Basically it's exactly the same as an epic collection deck form 2007, with an EX or powerful card as the cover card, and costs double that of theme decks, $20 to $25.

These aren't meant to replace theme decks either. Theme decks are meant for newer players and is meant to as a theme deck to sample the themes of that one particular set, as such, they only contain pokemon from that one set. There isn't a precon out there that uses pokemon from any modified legal set, except for that one time in 2007 when they released the epic collection decks. All I ask for is to release a $20 epic collection deck every year rather than once in a blue moon.

 

[bphaun3]

Long story short, I'd rather have the special sets (though would prefer them with the newest expansion).

I don't know, if they did a special pre-con, I think they would have to make a new set symbol for those cards, as opposed to letting the cards keep their original set number (like the Beginner decks do). For example, if they did do a pre-con and threw Catcher in it, I would want someway to indicate that it did not come from a pack (like the differentiation between the tin Zekrom-EX and the pack Zekrom-EX). Also, that would greatly drop the value of any cards they threw in it (and they'd have to have a sizeable number if the deck is to be tournament ready, even figuring the 5-Rare-limit).

IMO, pre-con takes away some of the fun of actually building a deck (while others would argue that they wouldn't have to fight to hunt down cards for a semi-competitive deck with pre-con). I know that starter decks do the same, but those are mostly designed for introductory use (though I did enjoy the NVI Escavalier deck, with its two Eels and three Durants). The greatest plus I could see for pre-con would be the inclusion of staple cards (Supporters and Trainers).

--- --- ---

I enjoy the tins for the most part. The special sets that I don't like, I simply don't get. Of the tins/box sets of 2012, I enjoy the upcoming Darkrai & Friends Tins, the Next Destinies Tins, the Mewtwo box and the Dragon Vault (if this is Dragon Selection); I was give-or-take with the Genies box, and the Albums; and I really wish they would have done without the Evolution Boxes and Kyurem Box (Keldeo box is still pending, based on the promos and the packs). Overall, I am pleased with their special promo sets.

That is not to say that how they run special promo sets is perfect. My biggest complaint, again, is their pack inclusions. I understand that they want to move earlier packs, but when I pick up a tin/box set, I'd like for them to include the newest (or second-newest) expansion, not three-to-five expansions prior. With tins, they should REALLY say what packs are included. If I am dissatisfied, though, there's always the option of buying the promo card outside of the set.

 

[NoDice]

I think they need to just carbon copy Japans rarity scheme and release schedule. Give us the same decks, promos (one way or another), sets and all the other goodies that Japan gets. Problem solved. No super expensive staples like catcher since they would have came in the Zek/Resh EX decks or whatever and we dont get ridiculous mishaps like shiny Rayquaza before reg Rayquaza.

 

[Daelum]

I think they need to just carbon copy Japans rarity scheme and release schedule. Give us the same decks, promos (one way or another), sets and all the other goodies that Japan gets. Problem solved. No super expensive staples like catcher since they would have came in the Zek/Resh EX decks or whatever and we don't get ridiculous mishaps like shiny Rayquaza before reg Rayquaza.

Yeah, that would never happen. Japan releases way to much stuff, so Pokemon would get annoyed printing all of it in minor quantities.
Also, it would extremely piss off both English and Japanese collectors. Japanese collectors would be mad because cards that were not reprinted in English have a much higher value, but if everything became reprinted in English, the cards would be rather worthless. With English collectors, they would be mad (or at least I would) that there is so many more cards to collect with all new promo sets and all that.

 

[signofzeta]

So let me get this straight here.

Some people rather have 2 tin, and 6 box set release dates rather than 2 tin, 4 box set and 2 epic collection precon release date?

I think having 2 of the 6ish box set releases become a epic collection like precon is better than having the 5th or 6th box set released per year.

I also think that there should be a release pattern like this.

January Box set
February Expansion set
March Tins (3 per release)
April Box Set
May Expansion set
June Epic Collection Precons (2 or 3 per release)
July Box Set
August Expansion Set
September Tins (3 per release)
October Box Set
November Expansion Set
December Epic Collection Precons (2 or 3 per release)

Out of this entire release schedule, new cards are only released in Expansion sets.
The randomized products are boosters from expansion sets, tins, and box sets.
The not random products are theme decks and the epic collection decks.

As I described before, epic collection precons are sort of like theme decks, but contain any card as long it is modified legal at time of release. As such, they don't contain only pokemon from one expansion that theme decks do. They are not completely replacing box sets. They are only replacing the 5th or 6th box set that TPCi loves to release every year. The ones that contain those COL and EPO boosters, or any garbage boosters.

Also think of it this way. Theme decks are meant for beginners, and epic collection decks are a step up from that. Just like Intro Pack vs Event Deck and Starter Deck vs Structure Deck.

 

[Slowbro]

Why do we need these? From my knowledge, no competitive player buys theme decks, so no competitive player will buy this when they can just make a deck. For new players, if they just started, they'll buy a theme deck. Once they start getting more competitive, they will just create their own deck. It's more fun and gives you more freedom. Also, do we really need something new every month?
EDIT: Also, it they're good enough to be tournament ready, it would get boring REAL fast battling a bunch of these.

 

[signofzeta]

Why do we need these? From my knowledge, no competitive player buys theme decks, so no competitive player will buy this when they can just make a deck. For new players, if they just started, they'll buy a theme deck. Once they start getting more competitive, they will just create their own deck. It's more fun and gives you more freedom. Also, do we really need something new every month?
EDIT: Also, it they're good enough to be tournament ready, it would get boring REAL fast battling a bunch of these.

1. You forgot a third group. People who either forgot to bring their constructed deck and wants to jump in and play without having to get destroyed by using a theme deck, or a newbie who doesn't have a constructed deck yet, and wants to jump in and play without having to get destroyed by using a theme deck.

2. And how are these any different than the people playing the best deck? These decks aren't designed to be the all time winning deck. These are designed so that a person without a deck can just buy one and play right away at a casual setting in a card shop. Maybe I'm using the word "tournament" wrong, but what I meant was when you gather around in your shop once a week to play Pokemon TCG, where everybody has already built decks that could beat Theme Decks no problem, and you are the only one left out with either a crappy Theme Deck, or no deck at all. Hence, this is the solution.

3. Since these aren't going to be the "be all end all" of decks, then I say that the claim that every will start using these in a shop tournament, or a casual shop crowd is complete BS. There is going to be someone who will build better decks than these, and the reason for its existence is already said in point #2.

Also, if you haven't noticed, but we got 4 expansion sets, 2 sets of tins, and over 6 box sets. That's like 12 releases, and it is roughly 1 release per month. This is only replacing 2 of the 6ish box set releases.

Maybe I forgot to mention this, but did I mention that these are going to be hobby store exclusive?

 

[Slowbro]

1. Most people just borrow a deck from a friend or watch. I can't speak for other people, but I know I wouldn't pay $20 just to not get destroyed at a casual tournament. If it's a noob like you said that just wants to jump in, they will still be destroyed with this deck. Just sayin.

2. What you are referring to is a league. When I think of tournament, I think of states or something like that. If I'm playing at a tournament like that, why wouldn't I make a deck that will have a shot at winning it?

3. I already see enough theme decks at my league, I really don't want to see anymore preconstructed decks.

Long story short, I don't think they will ever sell because the amount of people these decks cater to is too small. I would rather get a cool promo and a figure than buy a deck somewhere in between "crappy" and "good."

 

[signofzeta]

Most people borrow a deck or watch because they have no choice but to do that right now. Once these exist, they will shell out $20 for an EX card and a deck.

Have you heard of something called Event Decks that Magic the Gathering has? Yeah, these are similar to those, and from what I can recall, Event Decks sold pretty well.

Before Event Decks existed for Magic, a new person who wants to play right away, would come in, buy an intro pack, and get destroyed by an average deck. Wizards of the Coast found this out, and created Event Decks, a ready to play deck for Friday Night Magic.

Yugioh has something similar too. They have Starter Decks for beginners, and are usually not tournament viable, and structure decks, which cost $10, but are only tournament viable of you buy 3.

To me, Pokemon would always be that third place TCG that most store owners never have tournaments and leagues more than they have Magic and Yugioh tournaments and leagues, because it is so much harder for newer players or deckless players, who comes in and wants to play.

You say that nobody is going to spend $20 to buy a deck so they can be competitive right away. The existence of Event Decks for Magic proves otherwise, that people are willing to spend money on a competitive preconstructed deck, and it doesn't matter what Trading card game it is.

Another upside is that these help brick and mortar card shops. These are exclusive to card shops and hobby stores, so as such, you won't find these in Walmarts, Toysrus, and Targets. Because these are technically Theme Decks with steroids, people would buy these over theme decks, and to get these, they would need to go to hobby card shops. Thus increasing the sales for the card shop.

Even if these are better than theme decks, they shouldn't discontinue theme decks. Magic has Event Decks, but they still have Intro Packs. Event Decks are geared towards the people who want to play right away, and Intro Packs are geared towards the beginner who wants to learn things slowly, and who wants to sample themes from that one particular set. I would say it is the same with Epic Collection decks and Theme Decks respectively.

Just to say, there is not ONE tournament legal precon out there that doesn't contain Pokemon from varying sets. There is this one time when they released 3 Epic Collection precons in 2007, and that was it. After that, it is only precons that only contain Pokemon from one set. I think it is time to create precons twice a year in sets of 2 or 3 that contain Pokemon from any modified legal set at the time of these precons' release, and have them use popular tournament themes.

 

[Slowbro]

I'm going to have to give this round to you. You bring up convincing points, but I just don't think it will work. I know I wouldn't buy this. That's probably because I'm past that level in terms of competitiveness, but I digress. All in all, good discussion, I enjoyed it!