Discussion SM4 Worst Set Ever?

If anything this set suffers from being too creative... making up new effects that we really don't have a good use for yet. I mean seriously, adding 2 prizes? Kartana GX can literally just scoop a prize for a single Metal energy, meaning you could simply hold it in your hand until you get to a single prize scenario and just... win.

This set definitely doesn't suffer from a lack of creativity.

Yeah, but how many GX can take 2 or more prizes with theirs? Tauros can easily do it, Wishiwashi, Kommo-o and some others can as well regardless of how viable people think they are, and some of them like Espeon can in technicality take all 6 prizes, provided 3 EX/GX have taken heavy damage prior.

Then you have GX attacks like Tapu Lele's which can potentially prevent 4 prizes from being taken if it is used to heal 2 weakened 2 prize attackers.

Then consider the ones that assist in setup, like Sol Burst and stuff like Big Wheel and Algorithm, which can set you up for the whole game and forces the opponent to waste a Supporter to try to disrupt you.

There is nothing creative about simply getting to take one prize. Kartana is terribly overrated, and it's also a shame that we never get to see the really nice cards until the SM+ sets, which we don't get until the set after.
 
Personally I just want a single copy of Kartana GX to test in my Marshadow GX toolbox deck. It's another win-con in the single prize game, a situational hammer if needed, and can shuffle a damaged Marshadow into my deck to deny a KO (usually only avoid KOs when I have FFB equipped or used Crystal/Flash Ray though).

Edit: And Chaos Wheel Mismagius absolutely dismantles my Marshadow GX deck lol.
 
Last edited:
So now that we have the scans for SM4, I've notice something. There is only TWO cards in the set that are even playable in competitive standard, Lusamine and Silvally GX. Everything else is this set is actually terrible. All of the other GX's are absolutely terrible, and are outclassed by most things that are out right now. None of the trainers are good, Counter Energy is bad, Gladion MIGHT see play as a 1-of, but that's a stretch. Even the Non-GX Pokemon are lackluster. I don't see any sale value in the packs of this set at all. And just like i said in a thread a few weeks ago, the Ultra Beasts continue to be bad. Unless there was a set before HGSS when i started playing that was worse than this set, this is the worst set Pokemon has ever dropped.

http://www.pokebeach.com/2017/09/sm4-the-awoken-hero-and-the-transdimensional-beast-translations
I dont know what you're talking about, kartana is straight in any rainbow energy deck
 
No one uses them ANYMORE because they came out with cards that do the job better. Mewtwo was a good answer to decks that energy stacked because it was a one prize attacker (Played in Xerneas BREAK a lot for example), Now we have Tapu-Lele GX. And upon release, Dragonite was a staple in M-Rayquaza.

I'm only saying Golisopod because of the reset on the pokmeon and the effect of First Impression. You only need one or two Golisopod to be Banded, so you can use one Golisopod as a First Impression reset that does 120, then dash pouch next turn into the banded one for 150 for a total of 270. It's not hard to see that the card would be good with Golisopod. And Gardevoir would rather be banded. You would never put pouch on it. If you need to reset it, which you shouldnt have too more than once, use acerola.

A bench sniping move that NEEDS venesuar and NEEDS at least 3 Grass energy to do any kind of meaningful damage to a bench pokemon. And even then its only 120 damage. Which is only enough to 2HKO. You would need three Tapu-koko hits, and get venusuar, AND get three energy on Alolan to OHKO a big basic. That's minimum 4 Turns of set up. Which any deck in the game right now can outspeed. What deck would have a bad matchup against this? Like honestly? Garb would have a great matchup because you will go through a ton of items getting all of your moving pieces set up (only needs 9 items and a band to OHKO) Plus it turns off Venusuar. Metagross and Gard both out speed the deck. Alolan Ninetails can 2HKO you all day long, and OHKO venusuar. VikaBulu OHKO's you with Choice Band. What match up do you have that's good?

Lol the single prize attackers doesn't mean anything, because you will never kill anything. Notice how all the Single prize attackers we have now can OHKO the big EX/GX every turn with almost no set up. They can take the 2 for 1 prize trade all day because they will win it. How is a registeel, that CAN'T OHKO BIG BASICS, going to win the 2 for 1 prize trade. Tell me that. Are you going to use regirock? good luck with the energy accelration before his tiny 130 HP gets One shot by literally everything in the meta. The regis are not a rogue deck. they are simply bad. they have too heavy of a reliance on each other to be good.

Ok, so let me get this straight. You are going to set up your muk gx, get the three status conditions it will take to OHKO a Stage 1 or 2 GX, have the chaos tower, or have a second muk you can switch to, or have two switch cards to reset your only muk...with 60 cards, every turn, before your opponent gets set up...be honest, out of 100 games, how many times are you going to be able to pull that off enough to win a game against any meta deck. Keep in mind that EVERY meta deck can 2HKO you, and some can OHKO you. Not to mention they can pretty much ALL OHKO Nihilego for a free two prizes.

Most Metagross players play one Dhelmise...they need it for the 190 big basics, and for the 210 Kukui play...Not to mention some run either a 1-of Genesect EX which can OHKO with a band, or Necrozma GX, which can ohko you with a band. It's called adapting to the meta.

Lol, you literally just said my point as to why buzzwole isn't that good. How to deal with Psychic weakness on Buzzwole: Don't play it.

Are the other three UB's in this set? No? Ok, then they don't matter.

Again, for the THIRD TIME. The counter cards are bad, because they only work from behind. Meaning if you have a 50-50 matchup or better, out of 100 games, a minimum of 50 games the counter cards are going to be useless. That's a terrible ratio.

Ok, so first of all, its main attack is 5 energy, so it will die instantly to Gardevoir. It will lose the prize trade against metagross because of max potion. It loses to Garb becaue of how many cards you need for the set up. It's bad because it's too expensive, too slow, and Ninetails and Lapras are just better.

Ok, let's talk about Kartana GX. You all say it's ability is SOOOOO good, but fail to realize that discarding ONE special energy, which most decks don't even care about, is not worth losing two prizes to every meta deck that can OHKO it with almost no set up. Not to mention it's a dead card against things like Darkrai, Metagross, Fire variants, and Tapu-Bulu variants. If Enhaced Hammer was so important in the current meta, people would be playing it right now before we get Kartana. Drampa, Golisopod, Tapu-Bulu, Metagross, Turtonator, Ho-oh, Volcanian EX, Ninetails, and Lapras can all OHKO it with and without Choice Band respectively. Also notice how about 6 of those cards are sitting in the Tier 1-2 spot, and Kartana's ability can't hit those six. Blade GX is such an obscure attack. Think about it like this: Take 100 games against a deck that you have a 50-50 match up into, subtract 50 for your loses (you can change this number to fit the match-up), subtract the amount of times you can win without Kartana, subtract the amount of times you prize Kartana, don't draw Kartana, Kartana gets KO'd, don't have an energy for the GX attack, how many times you won't be in that 1 prize position, and finally how many times you've used a different GX attack that game. Then look at that number you have left. That number, out of 100, is how useful Kartana's GX attack is.

SM4+ would have to be absolutely insane to make up for how BAD this set is. This is how the community has responded to my criticism for this set: The UB in this set are bad>"They'll get support in the set, just wait">No support in the set>"Just wait til next set." or Only two cards have potential in competitive standard.>"No, all these cards have potential in this obscure situation that will only happen once every 100 games.">But 1 out of 100 is bad>"You're just being too negative"
muk is bad, dash pouch is ok, kartana is good, just pull him out when you need him certain match-ups and don't when you don't. Similar to necrozma or espeon ex in decidueye. counter catcher is good, its an item. And with alolan exeggutor, if youre playing to get one shots, youre playing him wrong. Not saying hes going to be great, but theres some decent potential with genesect, venusaur, alolan long neck and tapu koko. One prize attackers when you need it, spread damage, and heavy snipes with a one shot GX attack on most folks with choice band kuki. Stop being so mad about sets and just have fun you weeb. P.S. no one plays delmise in metagross you need the bench space, metagross is about durability and outlasting your opponent, not getting super rare one shots on stage two gxs. If you commit to the two shot game or basic one shot or low health stage 2 one shot, your deck will be way better.
 
With Gladion, I think that if your deck ever runs multiple copies of cards purely because of the risk of prizing then it may be worth it to run him. For example, I run a 2-2 line of Carbink/BREAK in my Lyrcanroc GX deck only because if I run 1-1 and either is prized it is potentially devastating. With Gladion, I can run a 1-1 line + Gladion + 1 extra card. With this, the scenario would be either 1; one of my essentials is prized so I grab it with Gladion or 2; neither was prized and instead Gladion acts as a means to grab whatever is prized (and with enough experience you should be able to have a decent idea of what is prized after taking one look through your deck in a game). I'm looking forward to giving him a try.
 
just gladion alone makes this set worthwhile. so many times you'll find that one crucial piece of your setup located in your prizes. i can set it becoming a staple 1-of in every deck.
 
This set is terrible. Throw your money at shining legends if you don't want to be disappointed

Shining Legends is pretty crap too... I mean I like Raichu GX, but can you honestly say there's anything worthwhile coming out of that set aside from maybe Venusaur (which doesn't even have a good grass Pokemon to pair up with yet).
 
Shining Legends is pretty crap too... I mean I like Raichu GX, but can you honestly say there's anything worthwhile coming out of that set aside from maybe Venusaur (which doesn't even have a good grass Pokemon to pair up with yet).
Ok let me explain to u how broken genesect is with venasaur. All u do is play max elixir and genesect had an ability to move a grass from anyone to him once per turn. Just getting 3 grass energy on him plus choice band with venasaur he is doing 200 damage. That's crazy. Another card coming out is zoroark. U parter him with mallow and that's a teammates supporter which is broken. New and marshadow are great cards. My favorite is shining ho oh cuz I don't even need wishful baton. His ability is broken.
 
Zoroark GX will be combo'd with a lot of cards for draw, and a good partner with Marshadow. The set brings creativity to the table, and it helps bridge combos not possible. IMO, the best set is SM3, and SM4 is going to help the future rotation.
 
I like SM4 It's the only SM set that I'm bored to death thumbing through the spoilers and cards. I like that they are experimenting with interesting mechanics and effects.

The ONLY part that I'm not a fan of; the set is called CRIMSON invasion. So why is the elite trainer box and the dice TEAL?


Honestly, that sounds like a job opening.
 
i thihink it is not the worst set ever, that would probably fall to one of the pop (not he gold star ones though) sets or something, or to a mini set like double crisi
 
I just feel like saying counter catcher or counter energy is bad is extremely short sighted. And the thing with Kartana too. So what if Kartana isn't good now? What if in a year, we get into a metagame where special energies become more relevant? At that point, it becomes amazing. Going back to my first point though, counter catcher/ energy has are important cards to keep in mind for multiple reasons:

1) They give non EX/GX decks extra tools to keep up. Realistically, non ex- decks, although none are top top tier RIGHT NOW, have to take 3 to 4 knockouts against EX/GX decks, whereas, usually their competition need to take 5 to 6 knockouts. If your opponent knocks out your first one prize pokemon, then you are one prize down, you now have the full possibility of digging with sycamore AND dragging your opponent into the active in the same turn early for a tempo swing.
1A) Even in a GX deck like Metagross, if you knock out my vulpix early, or if I take too long setting up, as it happens sometimes, counter catcher, sometimes before/after Sycamore/ Skyla, etc can afford me the ability to take a little longer to set up because it gives me more tools to come back, which is GOOD for that deck, for the purposes of using it as an example in a current deck.

2) Counter Energy may be specifically useful in a deck like the regi trio deck. Although the deck looks rough, it is simply an example of possible decks that might be able to exist in the future if the right cards come out. You would run a mix of different energies, mostly metal, professor's letters, and counter energies, as well as max elixirs. This deck would have an interesting matchup spread because Registeel has the ability to take down Garde as a single prize attacker. Regice is also strong against Stage 2 decks AND fire decks, as with a choice band, it can deal with all fire threats except Ho-oh, and Regirock enables the other 2 while providing a possible answer for fighting weak pokemon like say.... Raichu GX and Zoroark GX from shining legends... or Drampa... or Darkrai EX/GX, which are all pokemon that may or may not see play in the future. Counter Energy enables a deck that uses single prize attackers to fall behind while it sets up its board, then it makes using all the different attackers possible. And you CAN afford to fall behind when you have to take less knockouts than your opponent. If you think the retreat is a problem? Sylvally GX has your back. Oh, and Heavy Ball says hello. I am not saying The regi quadruplets will be a great deck, but the amount of coverage + the tools they are getting are not to be scoffed at. The only thing they really lack is damage output, which is something a FUTURE DECK may not lack, which is really what I am getting at. What if there is another deck that can utilize all these things to the maximum extent? Saying cards like counter energy are bad because of the CURRENT meta is so ignorant because the card will be standard legal for well.... what like 2 or so years? We will get several sets in that time, and that doesn't even include the possibilities in expanded, which I am sure are there.
...I probably could have split that up, but oh well. BUT YEAH, TL;DR I used quad regi to showcase a point that while it may not end up being great itself, that doesn't mean another versatile 1-prize focused deck won't show up and utilize all these tools better in the future.

3... sorta) Falling behind =/= losing. Sometimes, forcing your opponent into a 7 prize game can mean that on your turn, they are always one prize ahead, but you are winning the prize trade. Putting your opponent into such a position to utilize counter catcher MAY become a viable strategy because being able to dig with a card like sycamore AND force a pokemon into the active is strong. In a meta like the one we have right now, it won't even necessarily be difficult to pull this off because, as I hinted at earlier in the Metagross example, we have decks that like to start with card like A-Vulpix... or Promo Koko, or sometimes Garde or Metagross start with Ralts/ Beldum, etc,etc. These cards with strong come from behind effects are not necessarily overpowered because you cannot always use them, but if you know how and when to use them, or even purposely put your opponent into a position where they have to go for a 7 prize game, etc, then it becomes a powerful card because even if they play around the card, they did indeed HAVE to play around it.
 
This set is pretty bad to be honest. I could see Registeel (and possibly also Kartana GX) seeing play as techs in Metagross. I also think Counter Catcher is pretty good, but not amazing, and that Buzzwole has a small amount of potential- but only as a tech in Zygarde/Carbink, which will only see a very small amount of play as it has in the past. Guzzlord is funny too, might be an interesting card in Darkrai decks. Silvally is OK, but not very playable.
 
Back
Top