Something I've noticed lately at PokéBeach

[Cinesra]

What I don't get is why you guys keep complaining about lack of communication. Honestly, if you want something done, go out and do it instead of complaining. Gale saw the problem and tried to fix it. As mods, we are very busy "behind the scenes" or with our personal lives, so we don't have the time to go through each of your individual problems and fix them all. It would help us a lot more if instead of complaining, you tried to do something productive.

However, I do kind of agree with the modding/demodding problem though. Ever since September 2010, PokeBeach has always been a joke about its staff size. Within the first 2 months of all the promotions, 3 or 4 mods were already gone. Then a couple of months later 5 more mods were added. Just because someone goes doesn't mean we need to get someone else, IMO. I know I've talked to a couple of s-mods about it, but nothing's really been done.


While in that process we let him see everything we're working on and give him mod powers? If we did that, do you know how many people will start that nonsense to be a mod?

When people make suggestions as to how they think the site gets improved and all they get is "Stop complaining and do something about it.", do you think they feel that they can make a difference? If you tell them that suggesting changes is just complaining, do you think they'll get the impression that the mods will just assume they're complaining and ignore them? How else do you suggest we recognize a problem and try to get it fixed? Take all the time to write countless articles and brown nose just to become a moderator in order to get a say in how things are run? What else would be the first step in changing a problem besides recognizing that one exists? If we don't have the powers or the time to become a decision maker, how else can we get things done without talking about it with the ones who make the decisions?

While some people will always complain about personal issues, you can't assume that all people who bring up an issue are complaining. Is it really that hard to put aside the small things and focus on the bigger things like changing the way things are run before we get to the small "complaints"?

 

[The Yoshi]

What I don't get is why you guys keep complaining about lack of communication.

This has been an ongoing problem for a while now. If we had more communication, don't you think it's possible there would be less complaining on this site?

DNA, I'm actually surprised something productive came out of that chat last night. XP

And to everyone on this forum, I'm sure a bunch of you hate me right now, especially the moderators, and I felt I needed to apologize. You know the raging hormones thing that teenagers have that makes them have attitude and less respect, but I didn't really mean to hurt anyone's feelings. I really didn't mean to rain on Glaceon's parade, and I didn't want to make anyone upset. Teenagers will be teenagers until the end of time. I'm sorry I can't help it.

 

[Juliacoolo]

I don't think it's necessary for mods/smods to explain all of their decisions. The problem comes when these decisions turn south, people get upset about them, and want things fixed and answered.

 

[Cinesra]

I'm not sure if I can sum up all I said in a tl;dr, but I will try. (It definitely doesn't do it justice, though.)

Long story short, there's a problem with Pokebeach's chain of command and all of the decision-making processes reside with a handful of small people. In addition, the factor of secrecy on the part of the staff in not really divulging anything except for the end result (i.e. we know who gets modded, but not why) makes most of the members (and even some staff) dissatisfied as to why so many things must be kept behind closed doors.

I feel this is a pretty good explanation for how I feel. The site is for every member to enjoy, not just the few who hold the power. Why should only they have a say in how and why things are done? How can we know that what is being done behind closed doors is for the benefit of all instead of just the few if we aren't given enough insight into why decisions are made? How can we truly enjoy the site if we can't fully trust those who run the site? How can we fully trust those who run the site if they keep everything behind closed doors?

edit:

I don't think it's necessary for mods/smods to explain all of their decisions. The problem comes when these decisions turn south, people get upset about them, and want things fixed and answered.

I'm not saying that we get everything justified, just the important things. Things like why a person that they selected to run the site alongside them would be banned. We don't need to know things like why warnings are handed out to each member or anything like that. How would people wanting things fixed an issue?

 

[Gale]

I seriously think I am missing something. What do you want to see change? We can't control what mods decide to do. We can't see the future, when Gale was modded, he was very interested in making changes to the forums. Several month later, he had a change of heart and resigned. The people who work towards picking mods cannot see the future. Regular members cannot see the future either, if members had a say in who was modded, I feel the staff would last just as long, if not for shorter periods of time. People change. We can't control that.

I didn't have a change of heart. I resigned because I'm busy with personal matters.

I'm just going to really quickly respond. I haven't read many other posts in this thread, so sorry if anything I'm about to say has been said already.

You guys aren't really grasping what the main problem with PokeBeach is. It's sometimes necessary for changes in the staff to occur. Why keep someone on staff if they aren't interested, don't have time, or aren't qualified for the position? It's a waste of space, especially if someone better is available. Our biggest problem isn't staff. A lot of my ideas that I proposed in my original thread months ago were implemented and are still working to this day. Some of them you don't notice, but believe me, moderators are much more open with members now. I want to applaud (and apologize to) Celebi23 for really stepping up and helping to advance the website in terms of TCG, communication, and overall structure. The biggest thing we need to focus on is just building a community and establishing a reputation. I don't think at this point it's a big deal if someone becomes a moderator as long as they're qualified and know what they're doing.

 

[Mudkip711]

This has been an ongoing problem for a while now. If we had more communication, don't you think it's possible there would be less complaining on this site?

Trust me, as a member of this site for almost 4 years, I do not remember a single time without someone complaining about something.

When people make suggestions as to how they think the site gets improved and all they get is "Stop complaining and do something about it.", do you think they feel that they can make a difference? If you tell them that suggesting changes is just complaining, do you think they'll get the impression that the mods will just assume they're complaining and ignore them? How else do you suggest we recognize a problem and try to get it fixed? Take all the time to write countless articles and brown nose just to become a moderator in order to get a say in how things are run? What else would be the first step in changing a problem besides recognizing that one exists? If we don't have the powers or the time to become a decision maker, how else can we get things done without talking about it with the ones who make the decisions?

While some people will always complain about personal issues, you can't assume that all people who bring up an issue are complaining. Is it really that hard to put aside the small things and focus on the bigger things like changing the way things are run before we get to the small "complaints"?

If you really have a problem with something, try PMing a mod or two before making a thread about it. That mod can then begin to talk to the other moderators and try to make a solution best for everyone. A lot of the time member's complain just to complain. If that person is really serious about their problem, they'll try to fix it.

Regarding the secrecy of the mods, we can only give out so much information. As mods, we want to help this site and all of its members the best we can. It wouldn't help the site if we announced something, but it didn't happen. As a matter of fact, we were working on something that was supposed to come out last year, but it's been pushed back because of various reasons.

 

[King Arceus]

I just woke up so I'll do the best I can here.

Glaceon was already considered for a moderator back when Riskbreakers and Vulpix Yolk was chosen. The fact that he was interviewed was to stay knowledge of the supermoderators and himself. He was not to discuss it with anyone else. He contributes heavily to the TCG area of pb. He continued to contribute to the TCG area so when Gale had resigned we elected to choose Glaceon for the replacement.

When Gale had resigned we discussed amongst ourselves who would be the best replacement. Glaceon was the first choice for us that we came to an agreement upon because of his contributions to the TCG part of the forum. We had already interviewed him so we already had an idea of what he would be like and if we felt he had what it takes. Before Gale resigned, him and Celebi23 were the head of TCG. Celebi23 is the one who initially stated to pick Glaceon. We ended up agreeing on the decision he made. No one had anything bad to say about him so we didn't wait a long time before modding him from when Gale resigned.

Bippa is not a good choice for the replacement in my eyes because he does very little in the TCG part of pb. If it had been a VG Mod who resigned, I may have a different opinion since he does a lot more for that. We want our moderators to be experts in the part of the forum they are in charge of. Is it technically required? It is not, however, without having much knowledge about the area the person is going to be in charge of, they will not be able to do as good of job; members also send PMs to moderators when they have questions about sections they moderate. A member might PM a moderator in charge of the Deck Garage their deck list and wants to get feedback because they trust that the individual who is in charge knows what they are talking about. I still occasionally get PMs asking for deck advice even though I very rarely post in there. If a moderator isn't able to respond to common things such as this about their section, why should they lead it?

I know it seems like we go through a lot of staff. There are a variety of reasons that this happens. Some mods simply don't want to be a moderator anymore. Some just don't have the time they use to have so they resign in hopes that someone who does have the time can do a good job and make a difference. These are the most common reasons we go through a lot of staff. When a moderator isn't doing their job, why should they stay on the staff team? It is basically like having one less moderator while still having the same amount of area that needs to be covered. It ends up causing more of a workload to the other moderators which isn't fair. If you didn't do your work at a job, you wouldn't last long. You would simply be let go. To assist with this, a Mod Reviews program was started recently. In this review the various superrmods speak with the other moderators about things they are doing well and things they need to improve on. It is just like a review you would get if you worked somewhere.

 

[Juliacoolo]

And now people will be upset over not knowing what those various reasons are - which is part of the issue. Many people are impatient in allowing reforms to occur.

What we need are clear and well defined goals and plans. Members don't need to know details, but a map of the direction things are going in will soothe the tension and anger regarding secrecy and lack of progress.

Modding highly supported individuals who are also perfectly capable is also a good route, not only to gain public support, but it's doing nothing but helping.

 

[bacon]

I've already talked to JaySee and DNA about this, so rather than repeat myself at this very late hour for me (although I'll respond properly eventually), here's a log:

Spoiler

[22:35] <Rizadon> Whoa!
[22:35] <Rizadon> Longest post ever read in a long time.
[22:37] <bacon> *sigh*
[22:39] <Rizadon> ...?
[22:42] <Isaac> It's about to get a lot longer.
[22:42] <Isaac> no, that isn't what she said
[22:44] <bacon> DNA, I honestly do not understand your connection between staff changes and the buzzword of the month, "communication"
[22:44] <Isaac> Staff changes? I wasn't aware that was the issue
[22:45] <Isaac> I believe we're talking about two separate situations
[22:45] <JC> The staff changes are what the members think is the problem
[22:45] <JC> Structure is the real prblem
[22:45] <JC> *problem
[22:45] <Isaac> ^
[22:45] <JC> Er, government better put
[22:45] <bacon> Paragraph 6, you say that Gale resigns
[22:46] <bacon> Paragraph 7, you say the problem has never gone away, and that this problem is a lack of communication
[22:46] <Isaac> Gale's resignation just alerted us to the problem
[22:46] <bacon> You seem to intertwine the two
[22:46] <bacon> Alright
[22:46] <JC> Well communication has always been a problem for pokebeach
[22:46] <Isaac> Sorry if I wasn't clear enough on that point.
[22:46] <JC> namely SR and WPM
[22:47] <JC> But this is caused by the poor structure
[22:47] <JC> Putting them in a position that makes them need to communicate a lot
[22:47] <JC> Which they are unable to
[22:47] <bacon> I'm all ears, so let's focus on the ground level here-- what is it that you guys are actually seeing that demonstrates a lack of communication
[22:47] <JC> Well my demodding is a prime example
[22:48] <JC> Id love to bring it up but I get banned if I do >.>
[22:48] <JC> Which I think is wrong, since there is no reason the details should be a secret
[22:48] <JC> Take for example that guy who got banned
[22:48] <bacon> I mean more between members and mods really
[22:48] <JC> For suggesting happy hollidays over merry chistmas
[22:48] <bacon> Link me to his profile?
[22:49] <JC> I dont remember it
[22:49] <JC> He came on chat once
[22:49] <JC> But that kind of thing shouldnt be able to happen in a functioning system
[22:49] <bacon> Look, I'm just going to come right out and say it, that dude got banned for more than that lol
[22:50] <bacon> Can you give me something concrete here, something between mods and members
[22:50] <Rizadon> functioning =/= functioning fair
[22:50] <bacon> OK, what do you mean?
[22:51] <JC> Mods are labor workers, smods are the government, no?
[22:51] <JC> It does little good to communicate with mods
[22:51] <JC> Who probably are just as concerned as the members
[22:51] <bacon> No, anything mods say will be taken on board by smods too
[22:51] <JC> Mod people who you trust to run a forum
[22:52] <JC> I realize that
[22:52] <JC> I mean
[22:52] <JC> They usually don't have a word in the final say
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[22:52] <JC> Mods should be allowed to run their forums, with guidelines and checkups and such from the smods
[22:52] <JC> If they cant be trusted to run the forum, and make judgment, they shouldnt be mods
[22:52] <bacon> That is basically what happens, though?
[22:53] <JC> Not from what it appears, and certainly not when I was a mod
[22:53] <bacon> I can do whatever the hell I like in VG, so long as it's not ridiculous
[22:53] <JC> Then why isn't hyperbeem a mod yet
[22:54] <bacon> He's not needed as a mod
[22:54] <bacon> What would modding him accomplish
[22:54] <PBGuest> ^^^
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[22:55] <JC> According to what he and pride have said to me, he's been waiting on being modded, and pride just needs consent from the smods
[22:55] <JC> I suppose he could be lying
[22:55] <JC> But Pride shouldnt need consent to mod anyone
[22:55] <bacon> Well yes, because modding people is a group decision
[22:56] <JC> Among VG
[22:56] <bacon> It isn't, as people have randomly been spouting, something we take lightly
[22:56] <JC> The VG branch shouldnt need consent from outside branches to run VG, yes?
[22:57] <bacon> Why I imagine it should, really! It's WPM's site, SR oversees the entire operation. Those guys are in charge of Pride, who runs VG
[22:57] <JC> Which should not happen
[22:57] <bacon> But those guys only step in with regards to Mod applications, nothing else
[22:58] <JC> Pride and the VG branch need power over VG
[22:58] <bacon> We do, this is mod business only. A bad VG mod affects more than VG
[22:58] <DeadStockKid> i wish i understood all this vg stuff
[22:58] <DeadStockKid> lol
[22:59] <JC> Pride should have the ultimate say in anything VG related
[22:59] <bacon> But regardless, I'm still not sure why you think that WPM's and SR's influence has any detrimental affect
[22:59] <JC> It's their lack of influence
[23:00] <JC> If pride needs their consent for anything, they are merely a burden
[23:00] <bacon> How...?
[23:00] <JC> If anything needs to get an ok before its done
[23:01] <JC> It slows things down
[23:01] <bacon> If they think Hyper wouldn't make a good mod, they'd have reasons for thinking it. God forbid we let one guy decide all mod applications, it's something that needs to be talked over
[23:01] <bacon> What is the rush, seriously
[23:01] <bacon> And again, is Hyper being modded going to change anything
[23:01] <JC> Im not saying just pride
[23:01] <JC> I realize that
[23:01] <JC> VG branch should be making the decisions
[23:01] <bacon> OK,
[23:02] <JC> Im not saying Hyperbeem is significant to this
[23:02] <JC> Only that it should have been brought up and taken care of a while ago. From what HB has said, he's waiting on being modded from what he's heard.
[23:03] <bacon> VG makes all decisions, apart from mods. That's pretty much it. As it stands, we need no more mods, and aren't desperate for any. This applies for pretty much all applicants. Is it really so super important that we speed this process up when it's an operation that needs to be treated delicately anyway
[23:03] <JC> Whether he should be or not
[23:03] <JC> It should have been discussed, and not lingered
[23:04] <bacon> Well, maybe it's a difficult decision?
[23:04] <JC> It very well could be
[23:05] <JC> But it should at least be being talked about
[23:05] <JC> Are you saying current discussion is going on about him right now?
[23:05] <JC> And has been for nearly a month?
[23:05] <bacon> It's not just about discussion, though. It's about observing Hyper to see if he'd make a good mod
[23:06] <bacon> If Pride has brought it up, then yeah I think they are considering it
[23:06] <JC> If that is so
[23:06] <JC> the VG staff should be aware
[23:07] <bacon> To be honest, if anyone is getting the say on what the VG mods should have, it's the VG mods
[23:07] <JC> i agree
[23:07] <bacon> We will protest if we think it is a problem
[23:07] <bacon> But to us, it's not
[23:07] <bacon> Because it doesn't get in the way, it doesn't hamper our ability to run things
[23:08] <bacon> But let's get back to the ground here
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[23:08] <bacon> How does this affect you guys, honestly
[23:08] <JC> For the most part it doesn't
[23:08] <bacon> Alright
[23:08] <JC> Which is what most people don't get
[23:09] <JC> Most people dont like the revolving door of mods
[23:09] <JC> Which isnt what is keeping them from satisfaction
[23:10] <bacon> I'll just briefly say what I think here,
[23:10] <JC> Im curious, what ever became of the tutoring sessions?
[23:11] <JC> what is the current plan for raising the community?
[23:11] <bacon> With regards to the mod exchange, I agree it is fast paced. But there is nothing we can do. Gale I thought would stick around a lot longer for example, but there you go. And we need new guys to fill the void. It's as simple as that
[23:11] <Isaac> Does there need to be a set number of mods at any one given time, though?
[23:11] <JC> no
[23:11] <JC> fill where needed
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[23:12] <Isaac> So Glaceon was needed because Gale created a gap?
[23:12] <bacon> As for the lack of communication, I don't get it. We have been open, we have contributors, it's easier than ever to talk to us. People seem to want to be in on every single little detail-- It is not up to you guys, and you need to respect that, as you would with any institution etc
[23:12] <Isaac> Pokebeach is an institution?
[23:12] <Isaac> That's a terrible thing to hear.
[23:12] <DeadStockKid> lol
[23:12] <bacon> Oh don't. You know what I mean.
[23:12] <Isaac> No, I do not
[23:12] <bacon> OK
[23:13] <bacon> Any system where you have people enforcing the rules, mods
[23:13] <DeadStockKid> play nice kids. lol
[23:13] <Isaac> And that is what you meant by institution?
[23:13] <bacon> I mean a system similar to any government, any job, anything
[23:13] <Isaac> All right.
[23:13] <bacon> What do you think I would mean
[23:14] <Isaac> ...As far as Contributors go I don't think that helps or harms the problem of openness one way or the other.
[23:14] <Isaac> (I didn't know. That's why I was asking.)
[23:14] <JC> People want to see progress, when progress is not made, people want change to make progress happen. In return, they blame the system. Obviously the issues are not necessarily because of the system, but progress does need to be made
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[23:15] <bacon> Well, what would you mean by openess. People are able to get stuff done together, communicate with mods way more easily, it's a good system and it works. What would you otherwise want, in terms of openess
[23:15] <DeadStockKid> who cares. im just happy theres a place i can chat about pokemon cards without feeling like a complete nerd. lol
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[23:16] <Isaac> The decision-making process, perhaps? All we can see is the end result of the process. The reasons leading up to that are never given.
[23:17] <JC> Well, what would you want to know?
[23:17] <Isaac> Is that question directed at me?
[23:17] <JC> Glaceon was modded for xyz?
[23:17] <JC> yes
[23:17] <bacon> Yeah, I'm confused as to what that would accomplish
[23:17] <JC> JC was demodded for abc?
[23:17] <Isaac> That definitely wouldn't hurt
[23:17] <JC> Demodding i agree with
[23:17] <Isaac> I mean you don't have to go into detail
[23:17] <JC> The public should know if the mod wishes the public to know
[23:17] <Isaac> but it is better than no reason at all.
[23:18] <JC> modding should be obvious
[23:18] <Isaac> It should be, but it isn't.
[23:18] <bacon> I would have thought it was obvious to tell the truth. And besides, have you /asked/ people why they were modded? This sort of thing isn't kept top secret
[23:18] <JC> But member input doesnt hurt
[23:18] <JC> Im under obligation not to tell anyone
[23:18] <JC> Or I get permabanned
[23:18] <JC> So it is kinda top secret
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[23:18] <PBGuest> oh henryp
[23:18] <Isaac> And why does this obligation even exist to begin with?
[23:18] <JC> Which says a lot about it
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[23:19] <Isaac> Or is it something very serious?
[23:19] <bacon> I mean moddings, your case of demodding is kind of weird JC lol
[23:19] <JC> You tell me
[23:19] <JC> I mean both of you know what happened
[23:19] <Isaac> I basically know, but my mind needs a dustcloth
[23:19] <Isaac> -mind+memory
[23:19] <fgege> x was demodded for being a total deucher, y was picked over z because z has a bad attitude
[23:19] <Isaac> which I shall take to it asap
[23:20] <DeadStockKid> ive got a newb mod question. what do i put for the irc server and group to get to this chatroom on my mirc
[23:20] <Isaac> irc.syntaxnode.net
[23:20] <bacon> yeah
[23:20] <Isaac> I think you can leave the group field blank
[23:21] <JC> There should be Resignation demoddings, activity demoddings, and demotions for reasons obvious liabilities
[23:21] <bacon> To be honest guys, I'm really not seeing what you have an issue with, apart from JC who's situation I'll admit is a bit strange, but I also accept that I wasn't there during which a lot of it happened
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[23:22] <JC> I suppose my problem is the pathetic way it was handled
[23:22] <JC> And how no one can do anything about it
[23:22] <JC> Since SR DE and WPM have the final say in stuff like that
[23:22] <JC> Xous was my smod
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[23:23] *** Pokebeach sets mode +o on TDL
[23:23] *** PBGuest is now known as DeadstockKid1
[23:23] <JC> Again, i dont want to complain about that anymore
[23:23] <JC> but with that said
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[23:23] <Riskbreakers> i just woke up
[23:23] <JC> It highlights what dna was talking about
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[23:23] <Riskbreakers> and there is a wall of text thread in front of me
[23:23] <Riskbreakers> jesus christ
[23:23] <JC> lol
[23:23] <SA> heh
[23:23] <DeadStockKid> ok, im on mirc again. havent ran this program in 5 years! lol
[23:24] <Isaac> I apologize for any discomfort or eye strain I may have caused you.
[23:24] <Riskbreakers> and hey DNA, i still speak with both perspectives
[23:24] <Isaac> That is good.
[23:24] <Isaac> I'm trying to do that as well
[23:24] <Isaac> I always have tried.
[23:24] <bacon> I understand your position, and that you can't really talk about confidential staff stuff but want to use it as a grounds for illustrating a problem you think there is. I do not want to take sides as I was not there, so understand that too about my own position
[23:24] <Riskbreakers> the post you quoted from me
[23:24] <DeadStockKid> i need to figure out how to get the mirc crack...lol im cheap
[23:24] <bacon> However
[23:24] <Riskbreakers> is actually from a member perspective in an angle
[23:24] <bacon> If this is a problem then it's a continuing problem, so there should be more instances
[23:24] <Riskbreakers> well for me
[23:25] <Isaac> [15:24] <%Riskbreakers> is actually from a member perspective in an angle <----That's why I included it
[23:25] <Riskbreakers> i do think there is a need for better communication but
[23:25] <Riskbreakers> it's not as bad
[23:25] <Riskbreakers> as people say it to be
[23:25] <bacon> But you guys really aren't telling me what these problems /are/ in terms of evidence, it's just some weird ungrounded public opinion
[23:25] <Isaac> I'm not saying it's absolutely terrible
[23:25] <Riskbreakers> you dont
[23:25] <Riskbreakers> other haters do
[23:25] <Isaac> It's quite good but it could be better
[23:25] <JC> I can explain it to you again in PC if you want bacon
[23:25] <JC> To better understand my point, if you dont remember the details
[23:25] <Riskbreakers> but seriously
[23:26] <Isaac> ...I actually spent several hours writing that thread up.
[23:26] <bacon> No, but if you're going to criticise (which is fine!), then you gotta tell me what it is you're getting at, what instances you are unhappy with
[23:26] <Riskbreakers> sometimes i just feel that other guys just whine for the sake of it
[23:26] <Riskbreakers> especially PDC
[23:26] <DeadStockKid> lol
[23:26] <Isaac> Probably.
[23:26] <Riskbreakers> i really find him having an immature aura
[23:26] <JC> PDC wants modded again
[23:26] <Isaac> He does
[23:26] <Isaac> He really does
[23:26] <Riskbreakers> JC
[23:26] <DeadStockKid> i just found the post in the forum jc....deep ish
[23:26] <Riskbreakers> he complains about glaceon being too young
[23:26] <TDL> PDC -.-
[23:26] <Riskbreakers> and what was his age again?
[23:26] <Isaac> He sees the problem but I think he's going about it the wrong way.
[23:26] <JC> lol
[23:26] <Riskbreakers> 12?
[23:27] <TDL> 12 lol
[23:27] <Riskbreakers> that's 12 year old logic for you
[23:27] <Riskbreakers> -__-
[23:27] <TDL> I've heard him say more swears than I have in my entire life
[23:27] <Riskbreakers> damn
[23:27] <Riskbreakers> lol
[23:27] <Isaac> pretty much
[23:27] <TDL> he's 12 lol
[23:27] <JC> And people know that
[23:27] <TDL> where does a 12 year old learn this stuff
[23:27] <DeadStockKid> wow, whatta bad*ss
[23:27] <TDL> oh yeah
[23:27] <Riskbreakers> TDL
[23:27] <Riskbreakers> TV
[23:27] <Riskbreakers> ._.
[23:27] <Isaac> public school
[23:28] <JC> And when they see Glaceon getting modded - theyre critical too - Now thats not fair, but its their logic
[23:28] <Isaac> ...or TV, either is possible.
[23:28] <Riskbreakers> also
[23:28] <TDL> smogon guys
[23:28] <Riskbreakers> smogon
[23:28] <DeadStockKid> i agree isaac
[23:28] <Riskbreakers> ninja'd
[23:28] <Riskbreakers> ._.
[23:28] <JC> Results are the only thinf thats going to change things
[23:28] <JC> Results
[23:28] <Isaac> ^
[23:28] <Isaac> How long I have waited
[23:28] <bacon> But until I see this evidence or a more clearer presentation of your argument DNA, it's kind of frustrating to see you start a thread with no basis that's pissing off a lot of people and needlessly swaying public opinion against us. And obviously I can argue back and I'll restore that balance, but geez waste of air if it has to come to that
[23:28] <JC> And popular moddings - which are not necessarily a bad thing
[23:28] <TDL> how so JC?
[23:28] <JC> Popular moddings with results would make people really happy
[23:28] <Riskbreakers> JC
[23:29] <Riskbreakers> the problem with everyone
[23:29] *** Zyflair has joined #pokebeach
[23:29] <Riskbreakers> by everyone i mean every person here
[23:29] <JC> Is they dont know what theyre talking about
[23:29] *** Zyflair is now known as Flareon
[23:29] <DeadStockKid> teaching me how to do this mirc thing is a good way to get a fan on here. lol
[23:29] *** Flareon has left #pokebeach (Rejoining because of user@host change)
[23:29] *** Flareon has joined #pokebeach
[23:29] *** Flareon has left #pokebeach (Rejoining because of user@host change)
[23:29] *** Flareon has joined #pokebeach
[23:29] *** Pokebeach sets mode +v on Flareon
[23:29] <Riskbreakers> is that we enjoy short term happiness
[23:29] <Riskbreakers> if people don't see immediate change
[23:29] <Riskbreakers> they will be dissatisfied
[23:29] <Flareon> there's such thing as long term happiness?
[23:29] <JC> Absolutely
[23:29] <JC> But
[23:29] <JC> This has been happening for years
[23:29] <Riskbreakers> if they hear the words "long term" program
[23:29] <Riskbreakers> they cringe
[23:30] <JC> What needs to happen
[23:30] <Riskbreakers> remember the real wake up call started
[23:30] <JC> Is clear goals
[23:30] <JC> Clear intentions
[23:30] <JC> and a clear plan
[23:30] <Riskbreakers> when gale
[23:30] <bacon> Alright, thankyou, something I can work with
[23:30] <DeadStockKid> it takes time
[23:30] <Riskbreakers> laid it out
[23:30] <DeadStockKid> you cant panic with the long term thing...just fasten your seat belt and go for it
[23:31] <JC> Just like when Celebi posted the thread about phase mewtwo in seafloor
[23:31] <bacon> So you think it would be beneficial for us to lay out our projects and what we hope to achieve for members to see, that's fine
[23:31] <Flareon> DeadStockKid, I take it you're new here?
[23:31] *** Futa has joined #pokebeach
[23:31] <JC> And then shortly after there was a portal post about it
[23:31] <DeadStockKid> yes i am
[23:31] <bacon> I agree with that
[23:31] <JC> Thats good
[23:31] *** Pokebeach sets mode +o on Futa
[23:31] <DeadStockKid> im still tryin to get the swing of things
[23:31] <JC> Thats a good thing, yes'
[23:31] <Flareon> welcome to PokeBeach
[23:31] <DeadStockKid> thanks
[23:31] <Flareon> If you go on the forums, I'm Zyflair, assistant of the moderator of the Writing Corner
[23:32] <DeadStockKid> i finally installed mirc on my computer, havent used it in forever. i virtually forgot all the coading
[23:32] <Flareon> the aliases, you mean?
[23:32] <DeadStockKid> cool. im still DeadStockKid on the forums. lol
[23:32] <Futa> hi zy, tdl, dna
[23:32] <Futa> and risky
[23:32] <Flareon> hai Futa
[23:32] <JC> And I really think that modding people like DNA would be sending things in the right direction, for both support and efficiency
[23:32] <DeadStockKid> yeah, aliases, sure. lol
[23:32] <JC> OHEY GLISCOR NICE TO SEE YOU TOO ]
[23:32] <Flareon> making sure, lol
[23:32] <Futa> jc you're too cool to get a hi
[23:32] <bacon> Just saying that I've always backed DNA as a mod lol
[23:32] <Flareon> DNA is long due for a mod
[23:33] <JC>
[23:33] <DeadStockKid> my apologies if this is a no no, but does anybody know where to get a legitimate mirc crack?
[23:33] <Flareon> When I came back, one of the first things I noticed was that DNA was /still/ not a mod
[23:33] <JC> No need for one
[23:33] <JC> Its free
[23:33] <bacon> But it depends, and I'm not in the position to make that decision, just vouch for him (which I do)
[23:33] <Flareon> also, mirc doesn't stop you from continuing with the trial
[23:33] <DeadStockKid> ok, i wasnt sure
[23:33] <JC> We talked about modding him back when i was a mod
[23:34] <DeadStockKid> thank you for the fyi
[23:34] <Flareon> you're welcome
[23:34] <DeadStockKid> *whipes sweat from forehead
[23:34] <Riskbreakers> bacon
[23:34] <Futa> risky
[23:34] <Riskbreakers> im honestly surprised i was modded before him
[23:34] <Riskbreakers> lol
[23:34] <JC> How about
[23:34] <Futa> you asked for a skeleton zek eels list right?
[23:34] <Riskbreakers> yeah
[23:34] <bacon> Alright, here's what I've got from this convo guys (lol risk),
[23:34] <Futa> why?
[23:34] <DeadStockKid> see, i dont even remember how to do the gesture commands. lol
[23:34] <Riskbreakers> can yeah PM it in forums
[23:34] <Riskbreakers> zek eel mewtwo
[23:34] <Riskbreakers> i havent tested it yet
[23:35] <Futa> <@Futa> why?
[23:35] <Futa> oh
[23:35] <Futa> ok sure
[23:35] <JC> We let the public vote on the people who they believe to be intelligent
[23:35] <Riskbreakers> and im a bit busy IRL to create stock lists
[23:35] <Riskbreakers> i just need the basic list and go from there
[23:35] <JC> Anyone voted in can become a community contributer
[23:35] <bacon> For VG, you guys want to see where we are going. I agree, we can do that, it's feasable. I was actually gonna do it a while ago, it just slipped out of my mind
[23:35] <JC> (Intelligent and helpful)
[23:35] <JC> mhm
[23:35] <bacon> As for everything else, I'll be honest and say that I'm not really seeing what it is you are getting at, what the concrete problems with our current state really are, etc
[23:35] <Riskbreakers> Futa
[23:36] <DeadStockKid> i think jc wants a golden goose *wonka reference* lol
[23:36] <Riskbreakers> you want to be crazy and rate every ND card?
[23:36] <Riskbreakers> :>
[23:36] <Riskbreakers> except the basics and stage1 pre-evos though
[23:36] <DeadStockKid> im just kiddin
[23:36] *** SA has quit (Quit: dinner)
[23:36] <TDL> I want to say something but I just can't for some reason. :/
[23:36] <bacon> It would be super helpful if, in DNA's thread, you argued with more evidence. I know posts and behaviour on a forum is not concrete and everything needs to be taken subjectively, but anything to work with guys
[23:36] <Futa> sure
[23:36] <Futa> oh
[23:36] <Futa> and make sure I don't emerging fail again
[23:36] <Flareon> I'm just glad that Phase Mewtwo was just a straightforward declaration of actions to be taken and plans to follow through with. Not some silly speculation thread for the members to guess on what's going to happen while the staff watches in amusement.
[23:37] <Riskbreakers> WE wont
[23:37] <DeadStockKid> give me a link to this thread bacon, so i can catch up...
[23:37] <Riskbreakers> anyway
[23:37] <Riskbreakers> it's 7 37
[23:37] <Flareon> It's not necessarily a problem a problem here... just that some forums are notorious for that ;3
[23:37] <Riskbreakers> i AM
[23:37] <Riskbreakers> i have a class at 8
[23:37] <JC> Phase mewtwo was great
[23:37] <JC> Clear and informative
[23:37] <bacon> But before I start doing stuff, is there anything else you guys have issue with
[23:37] <Flareon> exactly
[23:37] <Futa> fyi I suck at skeleton lists
[23:37] <Riskbreakers> i honestly picked new player's plaza
[23:37] <Riskbreakers> because
[23:37] <Futa> I just makea list and go with itf
[23:37] <Riskbreakers> im busy these days
[23:38] <Flareon> Just the fact that members really don't know what the staff is planning
[23:38] <bacon> Anything to discuss etc because chat is way better than forums for this
[23:38] <Riskbreakers> so i can make sure that i can pull my weight in these tasks
[23:38] <JC> I'd still like to have my situation actually justified, but that is over, so i think thats all from me for now
[23:38] <DeadStockKid> amen bacon
[23:38] <Riskbreakers> anyway
[23:38] <Riskbreakers> good bye guys
[23:38] <TDL> bye risky
[23:38] <Flareon> ^
[23:38] <bacon> Alright
[23:38] <Riskbreakers> im off to driving myself to school
[23:39] <DeadStockKid> right on!^
[23:39] <DeadStockKid> later gator
[23:39] *** Riskbreakers has quit (Quit
[23:39] <TDL> hrng, I have something to say about this whole issue but I can't put it into words. >_<
[23:39] <bacon> Well! Here's what is going to happen, then, as I might as well say it here now
[23:39] <DeadStockKid> what is this issue? i need a link
[23:40] <bacon> Over the next couple of days, all the VG mods are going to talk about where we are going, etc
[23:40] <Flareon> it's a long issue someone has about PB's operations
[23:40] <Futa> the issue is mod/member communication
[23:40] <Futa> and other stuff
[23:40] <Futa> and other stuff
[23:40] <Flareon> Nothing concerning
[23:40] <DeadStockKid> o ok. as long as they arent shutting this down
[23:40] <bacon> We'll post a list of our goals, what we think will help, etc. A VG philosophy of the forums, I guess
[23:41] <Flareon> I like the sound of that
[23:41] <DeadStockKid> wheres the pokemon talk tho. ive been on here all day and havent heard about anything pokemon. wtf lol
[23:41] <Flareon> PokeBeach chat only talks about Pokemon 10% of the time
[23:41] <Futa> we don't talk about pokemon much
[23:41] <Flareon> 90% of it started by me, lol
[23:41] <DeadStockKid> ive noticed
[23:42] <Flareon> Mostly, I'm an Eeveelutions fan (only the new people don't know this)
[23:42] <DeadStockKid> im glad somebodies on now tho. it was dead earlier
[23:42] <Futa> YOU'RE AN EEVEELUTIONS FAN?
[23:42] <Futa> mind=blown
[23:42] <DeadStockKid> look at the name futa...lol
[23:42] <bacon> Alright I think we're done here for now then lol

That seems to be the meat of the situation and my take on it. Evidently if people have any other concerns or are willing to expand upon ones that have already been brought up, then I'm all ears.

 

[Matryoshka]

Wait a sec...I was modded before I was 14. Futa was modded when he was 14, PDC at 12, etc. I don't get why Glace's age has anything to do with this.

 

[Celebi23]

Okay, just in response to the first post.

I was basically the person who decided to promote Glaceon. Since I run TCG, the decision was left to me. Now, age isn't a factor I take into consideration when modding somebody. I look at what's important: how hard they work, how willing they are to help out, how respectful they are to other members, how well they understand the TCG, and a few other things. After taking all of these things into consideration, Glaceon was the obvious front runner. He's dropped me a few PMs simply asking if there's anything he can do to help out around the forums. He's written articles for the website. He's done much, much more. Tossing him aside because he's too young would be discriminating. It would be like not modding somebody because of their race or gender. It would go against this whole idea of yours, where all the mods stay mods for a long time. If I modded somebody else, they would be less likely to do a good job. Glaceon's post show more wisdom and maturity than many much older members.

If you want to know my logic behind modding Glaceon, just ask. Don't make a thread ranting about how mods don't care about anything.

Maybe you don't understand this: we lost a TCG mod. We didn't lose a VG mod. So naturally, we promote a TCG mod. Bippa didn't even cross my mind. Not because he's not an amazing member, but because he doesn't actively contribute to TCG. I needed somebody who actively contributed to TCG. Nobody has been able to give me a better candidate for TCG mod than Glaceon. If you're going to freak out about me promoting a 13-year old, give me somebody better to promote. There's nobody. It's not that we don't have a lot of good TCG members. It's just that Glaceon has easily been the most helpful around the site.

You could make the argument we don't need any more TCG mods, but we do. The Phase Mewtwo plan means one mod, one section. So it's important to keep the TCG mods at the number six. You could argue the whole plan was terrible, but the idea behind it was to improve communication and make everything more open. That's exactly what you want.

Once again, you make it sound like there was a better person to pick. Give me somebody in the TCG section who would have been better than Glaceon.

The entire concept behind Phase Mewtwo was a combination of Glaceon's (member at the time) and Hyper's idea. If I didn't care about what members say, Phase Mewtwo would not exist. Many, many, many of my actions as a mod are done because a member suggested it.

A suggestion box for mods in great. But quite honestly, we don't want to continue the huge number of promotions and demotions we've been having. You don't want this either. So the suggestion box would have little to no use in an ideal situation.

Also, I've got to ask you this. Imagine you had been modded instead of Glaceon. Would you still have made this thread, complaining about how the wrong people are modded and how the staff doesn't know what they're doing? This isn't intended to be rude, but I can't help but feel like you guys have a couple sour grapes about not being on staff. The only time(s) you bring this "issue" up are when somebody gets promoted. You wrote "HAAAAAA" on my wall when I got smods. That's downright rude. If you ever get modded, is that the kind of thing you would want to hear? How would you feel if, right after you got modded, somebody made a thread ranting about how you were incapable and a bad choice? Come on. Give Glaceon a chance. Don't discount him because of something stupid like age.

 

[DNA]

It happened again - 5 more posts while I was writing this up

~~~~~~

@Xous: That makes sense. I believe that's a rather good system, in which everyone gets input to some degree or another on it. I suppose that people on the other end of the spectrum are just annoyed because they don't know or see other people's input.

I myself don't necessarily agree with every decision made on who or who not to mod (just my opinion, though), but I really don't care who gets modded as long as results come from it.

This has been an ongoing problem for a while now. If we had more communication, don't you think it's possible there would be less complaining on this site?

DNA, I'm actually surprised something productive came out of that chat last night. XP

That, or less complaining will bring about more communication. In any case, I myself am not trying to complain or whine about something. I just saw a pervasive issue and brought it up, because it hasn't been really fixed yet.

I get the feeling the biggest problem is that all the power is held by a small handful of people (I believe it's a number less than 4), and that most decisions need to be cleared through them. If they delegated authority such that other lesser staff could make decisions without them needing to be cleared first, it's possible more things would get done around here. (And no, I do not believe this is a separate issue.)

I don't think it's necessary for mods/smods to explain all of their decisions. The problem comes when these decisions turn south, people get upset about them, and want things fixed and answered.

I agree. It wouldn't hurt them at all to explain a few of their decisions - and obviously I'm referring to those that can easily be shared with the general public - but in no way am I asking for full disclosure.

I feel this is a pretty good explanation for how I feel. The site is for every member to enjoy, not just the few who hold the power. Why should only they have a say in how and why things are done? How can we know that what is being done behind closed doors is for the benefit of all instead of just the few if we aren't given enough insight into why decisions are made? How can we truly enjoy the site if we can't fully trust those who run the site? How can we fully trust those who run the site if they keep everything behind closed doors?

Yep. I think PB is a place for everyone to enjoy, not just the decision-makers.

I didn't have a change of heart. I resigned because I'm busy with personal matters.

I didn't think so.

A lot of my ideas that I proposed in my original thread months ago were implemented and are still working to this day. Some of them you don't notice, but believe me, moderators are much more open with members now. I want to applaud (and apologize to) Celebi23 for really stepping up and helping to advance the website in terms of TCG, communication, and overall structure. The biggest thing we need to focus on is just building a community and establishing a reputation. I don't think at this point it's a big deal if someone becomes a moderator as long as they're qualified and know what they're doing.

I have noticed that there's a lot more communication going on than there is before. That's a good thing. Unfortunately, it's still rather difficult to take some of the staff members at their word when they're a bit vague about things.

And yes, a step in the right direction is to build our community up. PokeBeach is a forum for all of us, new and old, to enjoy together. I think that's everyone's wish - to be a part of this - but as long as absolute power is constrained to a few people, I'm not sure how, or if, it will come about.

Trust me, as a member of this site for almost 4 years, I do not remember a single time without someone complaining about something.

This is usually why I don't post in the various Congrats topics across the years. I react instinctively to change - sometimes negatively - and thus I try to refrain from letting my personal opinions cloud my judgment. I definitely hope that I have not done so here.

Glaceon was already considered for a moderator back when Riskbreakers and Vulpix Yolk was chosen. The fact that he was interviewed was to stay knowledge of the supermoderators and himself. He was not to discuss it with anyone else. He contributes heavily to the TCG area of PokéBeach. He continued to contribute to the TCG area so when Gale had resigned we elected to choose Glaceon for the replacement.

Okay, that's fair. You do have a list of people that you take into consideration, which you then sort. That's what I'd been guessing at, but I honestly had no idea. Confirmation of this theory is good.

Bippa is not a good choice for the replacement in my eyes because he does very little in the TCG part of PokéBeach. If it had been a VG Mod who resigned, I may have a different opinion since he does a lot more for that. We want our moderators to be experts in the part of the forum they are in charge of. Is it technically required? It is not, however, without having much knowledge about the area the person is going to be in charge of, they will not be able to do as good of job; members also send PMs to moderators when they have questions about sections they moderate.

I'll concede I was rather hasty in saying that Bippa would be a good replacement instead of Glaceon, but I also feel like I didn't explain myself well enough, either. When I said that, I meant more qualified overall to be a moderator (not just over a specific section) - without taking any sections into account I feel Bippa is the most qualified person who isn't staff yet.

These are the most common reasons we go through a lot of staff. When a moderator isn't doing their job, why should they stay on the staff team? It is basically like having one less moderator while still having the same amount of area that needs to be covered. It ends up causing more of a workload to the other moderators which isn't fair. If you didn't do your work at a job, you wouldn't last long. You would simply be let go.

As I've said, this makes sense. I was just worried about the frequency of hiring and letting go.

To assist with this, a Mod Reviews program was started recently. In this review the various superrmods speak with the other moderators about things they are doing well and things they need to improve on. It is just like a review you would get if you worked somewhere.

Yes! This is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I said that the staff can afford to be a bit more open in what happens in the staff area.
This is informative - we know a bit about what's going on and what goes into whether or not someone stays or leaves. It's also not detrimental - you guys have nothing to lose from revealing this, nor does it cast anyone in a negative light. Finally, it shows you're willing to go the extra step to let us know what's going on.
Sometimes, I feel like there isn't enough of things like this going on. I could be mistaken (since I don't know everything that's going on), but that's just what it feels like at times.

Nobody has been able to give me a better candidate for TCG mod than Glaceon. If you're going to freak out about me promoting a 13-year old, give me somebody better to promote. There's nobody. It's not that we don't have a lot of good TCG members. It's just that Glaceon has easily been the most helpful around the site.

I had the feeling this was the case. I was just curious as to why, and this is a good answer.

You could make the argument we don't need any more TCG mods, but we do. The Phase Mewtwo plan means one mod, one section. So it's important to keep the TCG mods at the number six. You could argue the whole plan was terrible, but the idea behind it was to improve communication and make everything more open. That's exactly what you want.

I remember being told this by a few different people (I don't remember who, but I think you might have been one of them), and I am aware of the system. I'm not really majorly objecting to number of mods here, as you probably gathered.

A suggestion box for mods in great. But quite honestly, we don't want to continue the huge number of promotions and demotions we've been having. You don't want this either. So the suggestion box would have little to no use in an ideal situation.

Are you quite sure about that? The suggestion box doesn't have to be for just mod nominations, you know. It could be used for anything.

Also, I've got to ask you this. Imagine you had been modded instead of Glaceon. Would you still have made this thread, complaining about how the wrong people are modded and how the staff doesn't know what they're doing? This isn't intended to be rude, but I can't help but feel like you guys have a couple sour grapes about not being on staff. The only time(s) you bring this "issue" up are when somebody gets promoted.

A fair question. As such you deserve a fair response.

I'd like to begin by saying that my chances of being modded are less than five percent. There are a few factors that come into play when I calculate that number, but most of them are personal reasons. (One of those reasons is I feel like a moderator position wouldn't change much about what I do around the site, thus I would reject it.)

Have you seen me bring up this issue before often? I believe this is the first time I've actually organized my thoughts into a post like this. Granted, I don't always agree with every promotion (most I disagree with, but that's mostly because I react negatively to change at times), but I do not let my emotions get in the way of my work.

You wrote "HAAAAAA" on my wall when I got smods. That's downright rude. If you ever get modded, is that the kind of thing you would want to hear? How would you feel if, right after you got modded, somebody made a thread ranting about how you were incapable and a bad choice? Come on. Give Glaceon a chance. Don't discount him because of something stupid like age.

The reason I wrote that is because I didn't know the whole story. You sat down and went through the trouble of explaining to me how the whole staff system works, and I genuinely appreciated that. I think I also apologized for being overly harsh (and if I didn't, I meant to - I'm sorry). As a result, I know the system better.
Unfortunately, this sort of thing usually only comes around/is brought up when someone is promoted; it's almost like we need to ask or be told how things work around here. It's gotten better, yes, but the stuff that Arceus shared...? I didn't even know it existed until today.

I'm all for giving Glaceon a chance. I have nothing against him personally, and I believe everyone deserves a chance. Like I said, I wish him well, and if he does his job effectively, then so much the better. I am not trying to put him down, and I never was; don't forget that.


To end this post, let me just say that I'm glad to see all of the feedback, both staff and non-staff alike, that has been poured into this topic. I have made sure to read each and every last word of all of your posts (as you've probably noticed), as I think you guys deserve to know what I feel about all this, since I was the one who brought this to light just recently. I do like knowing what goes on at PokeBeach and I feel like this topic is the start of that. If we keep up this attitude in the future as well, and if we're all more willing to bring all our suggestions to the table (without having to resort to walls of text, as I have been doing, har har har), I think we'll all be better off as a result.

I don't know if this will bring about lasting change - and to be honest, it might not and we'll be back to where we started again (sadface) - but I'm willing to try, which is why I posted this to begin with.
I got tired of sitting on the sidelines all this time. I spent several hours crafting the OP to this thread, and several more responding to you all. I want to put my heart and soul into PB, I really do. And if this sounds too sappy for you, feel free to slap me around a bit with a large trout.

 

[Cinesra]

I didn't have a change of heart. I resigned because I'm busy with personal matters.

I'm just going to really quickly respond. I haven't read many other posts in this thread, so sorry if anything I'm about to say has been said already.

You guys aren't really grasping what the main problem with PokeBeach is. It's sometimes necessary for changes in the staff to occur. Why keep someone on staff if they aren't interested, don't have time, or aren't qualified for the position? It's a waste of space, especially if someone better is available. Our biggest problem isn't staff. A lot of my ideas that I proposed in my original thread months ago were implemented and are still working to this day. Some of them you don't notice, but believe me, moderators are much more open with members now. I want to applaud (and apologize to) Celebi23 for really stepping up and helping to advance the website in terms of TCG, communication, and overall structure. The biggest thing we need to focus on is just building a community and establishing a reputation. I don't think at this point it's a big deal if someone becomes a moderator as long as they're qualified and know what they're doing.

I agree that we need to establish a good community and reputation. The best way to do this is to get and keep more experienced/mature/better/qualified/whatever members. How will we be able to get and keep them if they don't enjoy the site? This is why we need to become a better site to get better members, and in turn attract more people.

And now people will be upset over not knowing what those various reasons are - which is part of the issue. Many people are impatient in allowing reforms to occur.

What we need are clear and well defined goals and plans. Members don't need to know details, but a map of the direction things are going in will soothe the tension and anger regarding secrecy and lack of progress.

Modding highly supported individuals who are also perfectly capable is also a good route, not only to gain public support, but it's doing nothing but helping.

This is a good idea. We don't need huge reform all of a sudden, just a bigger step in the right direction that people can see.

Trust me, as a member of this site for almost 4 years, I do not remember a single time without someone complaining about something.


If you really have a problem with something, try PMing a mod or two before making a thread about it. That mod can then begin to talk to the other moderators and try to make a solution best for everyone. A lot of the time member's complain just to complain. If that person is really serious about their problem, they'll try to fix it.

Regarding the secrecy of the mods, we can only give out so much information. As mods, we want to help this site and all of its members the best we can. It wouldn't help the site if we announced something, but it didn't happen. As a matter of fact, we were working on something that was supposed to come out last year, but it's been pushed back because of various reasons.

PMing a mod is fine and all, but how can you expect us to trust that we'll be taken as seriously as you claim if we see other members passed off as "complainers" when they bring up suggestions? Also, it's easy to avoid people getting disappointed over something not happening. Don't give them false hope. You can tell us about plans and ideas while being specific that things are subject to change and aren't guaranteed to happen. Don't promise people free ponies, when they may not actually receive a pony, without telling them about it and they won't get mad about not getting the pony.

 

[Teal]

I might seem strange for a mod speaking for a member's point of view, but perhaps if we allow member-input on certain projects, we can improve the communication between mods and members?

It's not strange, it's a sign of a good mod.


I am not that active here, so maybe that's why I don't see this transparency/communication problem people are talking about. Just remember that some things just can't be discussed publicly. Reasons for mod desicions should be given if they are asked for, of course. (As they were now, after way too much drama.)


What is strange though, is this constant modding and demodding. It's one of the most ridiculous things I've seen on the entire Internet in these 6-8 years I have been online (no, really). Something has gone wrong here, and it must be fixed. It looks like the possible new mods must be interviewed very thoroughly about interest and their personal situations.


Age being a hurdle for modding: it shouldn't. Of course, even a "mature" 13 year old is very, very immature (compared to what he will be in a couple of years) BUT being a moderator requires only a certain kind and amount of maturity, and a 13 year old can easily posess this. (I hope you get what I mean. Being a moderator isn't really that hard.) Also, I believe that young moderators bring a valuable "children's point of view" into discussions.


Suggestion box. Yes please. :3


Note that I did not read every single post, but most of them.

 

[Vulpix Yolk]

I didn't have a change of heart. I resigned because I'm busy with personal matters.

Yeah, I used the wrong wording there, very clearly looking back on it. I understand you still care for the forums, just used the wrong words there. Sorry.

As for the whole complaining thing, I feel it has stopped for the most part in this thread. What I meant by complaining back when I first mentioned it, was when someone brings up a problem, without making any suggestions on how to fix it. We are starting to make progress here, ideas are actually forming.

Also, we have 25 staff members including WPM, excluding Contributors. We have 12,817 members. That's more than a 1/500 ratio. We aren't over staffed right now in my opinion.

 

[PDC]

i figure since i was one selected, i'll post here and express my thoughts.

first off i would like to say how some of you people judge attitude over skills (you mark). but sometimes lets be honest, attitude is nto everything. yes, it does play a very important part of modship of other forum activities but you people just consider it WAY to much. last night i proposed a contributions & corrections to mark and the other mods. i basically included who i thought was worthy of c&c for VG as i have no smarts of the TCG section. i put myself on i because i have amazing smarts of the game. let's be honest, i know what i'm doing. i have had many succesfull tournament wins and ladder runs. the sole reason was because of my "attitude". wow, just wow is all i can really say. for c&c all you need to do is basically when somebody submits an article a team of people look it over and look at what needs to be changed or improved. this does not require much attitude as it is just pointing out what is wrong with something. now, i know i am very negative and such, but lets be honest, this job is not like being a mod. if you could comprehend that it is simply people giving articles checks maybe it could get through without much problem. this will improve quality of articles before they officially go out on site. you don't need any special userbar or power to do this. just being able to do an easy task of giving an article 3 checks for it to be passed. lets be honest, some members know more about vg or tcg than some mods do. this is a fact that cannot be undisputed. i'm saying these members should be at least recognized and put on this group that i propose. it basically gives a more exclusive and in deph check on articles. so basically attitude does not matter in this group i propose.

my second point i must adress is how communication is bad even with mod + mod. mod + member is even worse. ask JC, he tried contacting mods all the time and simply was not replied to. with mod + mod we have to look at how many we have. we have a much smaller playerbase than Smogon, vg and tcg combined, yet we practically have more mods than they do. this means we have to select mods much more carefully than previously. we have way to many mods at any given time because we hire more and more every month. we have to set a max and min for mods we can have. we need a more centered mod base, this way we can have a much better communication base. more does not mean better. just take a step back and fire and hire only when needed.

my final point is something i completly disagree with. making fun of mods behind their backs. i remember when we used to make fun of certien mods who were doing their job wrong or something. not correcting, but actually blankly yelling at them. i remember when somebody got fired we basically insulted them. the same goes for me, as when i was fired don't think i don't know what you guys said about me. if you are gonna say somethin, say it to my face. i'll say anything i feel and put it out there because i'm not afraid i'll get in trouble. this is more of personal opinion if anything, but take thi into account.

 

[Teal]

PDC, reading your post was painful. Your shift does not seem to work, you should fix your computer.

 

[Celebi23]

Why not just improve your attitude?

 

[Glace]

FOr those think that TCG is overmodded.

In Community Works, there are 3 forums and subforums combined, and 2 mods.
In VG, there are 6 forums and subforums combined, and 5 mods.
In TCG, there are 13 forums and subforums combined (excluding the various subforums of OP and Reports), and 6 mods.

That ratio explains my point of view about having new mods in TCG (though I do not think we need any more).

 

[King Arceus]

First start your sentences with a capitalized word. If you can't take the time to do that, you won't be taken as seriously.

first off i would like to say how some of you people judge attitude over skills (you mark). but sometimes lets be honest, attitude is nto everything. yes, it does play a very important part of modship of other forum activities but you people just consider it WAY to much. last night i proposed a contributions & corrections to mark and the other mods. i basically included who i thought was worthy of c&c for VG as i have no smarts of the TCG section. i put myself on i because i have amazing smarts of the game. let's be honest, i know what i'm doing. i have had many succesfull tournament wins and ladder runs. the sole reason was because of my "attitude". wow, just wow is all i can really say. for c&c all you need to do is basically when somebody submits an article a team of people look it over and look at what needs to be changed or improved. this does not require much attitude as it is just pointing out what is wrong with something. now, i know i am very negative and such, but lets be honest, this job is not like being a mod. if you could comprehend that it is simply people giving articles checks maybe it could get through without much problem. this will improve quality of articles before they officially go out on site. you don't need any special userbar or power to do this. just being able to do an easy task of giving an article 3 checks for it to be passed. lets be honest, some members know more about vg or tcg than some mods do. this is a fact that cannot be undisputed. i'm saying these members should be at least recognized and put on this group that i propose. it basically gives a more exclusive and in deph check on articles. so basically attitude does not matter in this group i propose.

You need to have a good attitude in order to get along with others. We want members who are in special usergroups to be able to have a positive attitude. Having a group where some of the members don't creates a bad situation for everyone by making it more hostile. Part of the forum rules even says to have a positive attitude; that should tell you right there why I gave that statement. I believe it is actually the first rule listed if memory serves correctly. Secondly, I don't trust you in that group for another reason. When we worked on articles you wouldn't say what was wrong, yet when the article was published you would post everything that was wrong with it. That is absolutely not how a moderator should act. Moderators are suppose to work together, not be separated. Thirdly, you also curse more than any other member I know. I talked to you many times about it and how it was a major problem on Pokemon Online. When something didn't go your way in a battle such as a hax crit or miss you would post a ton of lines of nonsense. I also fail to see how this team is any different than Community Contributors. We have members of that group that do proofreading of articles to get rid of any spelling or grammatical errors they find.