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Speed Donphan

Rikko145

Rikko145

I put the "laughter" in "slaughter&
Member
Pokemon: 10
4-4 Donphan Prime (CoL Phanpy)
1 Reshiram (BW)
1 Terrakion (NV #73)

T/S/S: 40
4 PONT
4 Juniper
4 Junk Arm
4 Dual Ball
3 Catcher
3 Sage's Training
3 Plus Power
2 Heavy Ball
2 Ultra Ball
2 N
2 Switch
2 Super Rod
2 Rocky Helmet
2 Ruins of Alph
1 Max Potion

Energy:
10 {F}

The whole idea is to swarm Donphans and overrun the opponent. It can handle ZekEels and Dark.dec just fine. Taking a prize every turn against those decks isn't a bit of problem. When confronted with a Tornadus or Tornadus EX, just Catcher around it. You'll be taking a prize every turn while they 2HKO Donphans. Against CMT, Catcher Celebis and KO them with Reshiram's Outrage. If they attack Reshiram with a Mewtwo EX, they need 4 energies to OHKO it (assuming you have 1 damage counter and 2 energies on it). Once they do KO it, send up Terrakion and hit for 90, either revenge KO-ing or attach another energy next turn and KO it with Land Crush. CMT is your worst matchup, and you'll end up just preying on Catcher KO's. However, CMT is going to be played a lot less with Dark Explorers in the format. Anybody have any suggestions for the deck?
 
Why? Reshiram counters Durant and with 1 damage counter or a Plus Power it can take out Celebis in the MTC matchup. Zekrom has a worse weakness and no type advantage.
 
Well, zekrom counters tornadus and tornadus EX because sometimes catchers won't be available to use. Zekrom can OHKO it pretty easily. And since CMT alao uses tornadus it can help there as well. If you have any mewtwo I think some would be great against CMT. It will still be pretty good so I would still add some.
 
More Ruins of Alph, it'll help tremendously against CMT with Mewtwo EX not being a bad tech either. With only having one in there, they'll just play a Skyarrow Bridge over it. I personally disagree with Zekrom, just because you're going to need to recoil enough damage to power up its Outrage. By the time this looks like a threat to your opponent, they'll just Catcher it up and it doesn't look like you run any form of recovery in there. If you're worried about Durant, just play Heatmor. Also, have you considered Aerodactyl?
 
You could try
-1 super rod(1 is enough)
-1 PONT (3 should be enough)
-3 ultra ball (shoudnt be needed IMo since heavy ball takes care of donphan and terrakion and dual ball takes care of the rest)
-1 sage's (I think 2 may be enough)
-1 juniper (3 should be enough)
-1 max potion? (shouldn't be too needed)


+2 mewtwo (mewtwo will still be a threat)
+1 rocky helmet (2 will be better)
+around 2 DCE (for mewtwo)
+1 N (3 should be good)
+2 random receiver (for draw supporters)

And I think that reshiram and zekrom could both be good techs. Reshiram for grass types such as celebi or virizion/Shaymin EX, and zekrom for tornadus and tornadus EX.
 
Jirachi (Post #1) - Zekrom doesn't help against Tornadus, since they'll just Catcher around it like I should be doing to their Tornadus. Of course they're not going to attack it and give up 2 free prizes.

JaimeSerhan - Reshiram is a useful card for CMT and Durant, and can be used to throw up a wall at others. Heatmore counters Durant ONLY and otherwise clogs the deck. Also, did you not see the 2 Super Rod?

Zorua - Even though I think that rule is obnoxious and pointless, I will momentarily.

Jirachi (Post #2) - You just told me to drop half my consistency cards and add situational cards and techs. I appreciate your help, but no thank you.

Jirachi, you have a point in I have a lot of search. I'm going to drop a Heavy Ball and an Ultra Ball for another Rocky Helmet and another Ruins of Alph.
 
Please don't drop the heavy ball. 3 is good really. What I was trying to say was that heavy ball and dual ball seems enough for the Pokemon, since dual ball covers all the basics and heavy ball covers donphan and terrakion. Heavy ball is needed. 2 would be a bit low. And as for the consistency cards, 11 draw supporters and 2 random receiver seems fine to me. Random receiver would be really helpful because sometimes when you don't have any draw support and you need one, random receiver would get you one. (unless of course there are no more draw supporters in your deck
 
If I have Ultra Ball, I don't need 3 Heavy Ball. And sometimes I need to get a basic off a Super Rod and I don't have anything but a Heavy Ball, because I use them early. I never run more than 2 N, since it's situational. And I think Random Reciever is just bad. It shows your opponent your deck, and should you have something in there they don't expect (i.e. Reshiram, Rocky Helmet, Max Potion, Ruins of Alph) they'll know what's coming and how to prepare for it.
 
Rikko145 said:
JaimeSerhan - Reshiram is a useful card for CMT and Durant, and can be used to throw up a wall at others. Heatmore counters Durant ONLY and otherwise clogs the deck. Also, did you not see the 2 Super Rod?
Click to expand...

Apologies, I didn't see the Super Rod on first glance.

I'm still kind of confused on why you're running Reshiram. One energy for an instant Durant sweep is too good to pass down. Remembering that with an Eviolite or Special {M} or even both, I feel Heatmor is the better play here IMO as Reshiram won't be in knockout range. Let us not forget that you'll need the recoil damage to power Reshiram's Outrage attack from Donphan, and that'll just become Catcher bait when you eventually tag out for Reshiram

Out of curisity, why would Reshiram help against CMT? The only think I can think it'll target is Celebi but Donphan already does 60 for a single {F} anyway which is knockout.

Lastly, I would change to the HGSS Phanpy. 70HP is better IMO as you'll be attaching Energy after you've evolved.
 
You'll spend 3 turns using Earthquake, scoring probably only 1 KO unless you use a PlusPower or two. Then you send up Reshiram to sweep for OHKO's. If they Catcher Donphan, you make sure you save the Switches/Junk Arms in your hand. Also, while you have nothing else to do whilst attacking with Reshiram you can just attach 4-5 energies to Donphan, just in case you need to retreat or fall victim to Crushing Hammer.

Reshiram helps in CMT because it provides a quick way to KO Celebis after there isn't a Mewtwo with more than 1 energy on it (which happens often against CMT, since they need a lot of energy to OHKO Donphan, they'll load up one Mewtwo. However, when it goes down they have nothing else left.). This will score you a garunteed 2 KO's on Celebis, assuming they power up another Mewtwo EX asap.

The CoL Phanpy is better because it doesn't take damage in the turn it's waiting to evolve on the bench. That means that you won't have benched Donphans with a damage counter already on them, and that your starting Donphan will have 10 less damage on it after evolution. As long as you have one Donphan up and running already, it doesn't matter if you attach pre or post evolution.
 
Reshiram is in no way shape or form a counter to Durrant.

If you do send it up, they will spend their time removing the energies that you play on it, keeping it trapped there. With the deck being so keen on energy denial, you're better off using Donphan against Durrant. Set up a single Donphan and EQ every turn until they're all dead. Maybe a second Donphan on bench because some lists use Mewtwo. Zekrom is easily the better choice of Reshiram because Tornadus. Eviolited Tornadus is taking 20 damage from your Donphans which is quite laughable.

Ruins of Alph is not a good card for the deck because its not searchable. Chance are when you need it, you won't have it without burning up so many resources to find it, you're better off taking your own advice and just catcher around Tornadus.

Rocky Helmet is a waste, switch them out with EXP Share to keep energy on the field. While conserving energy at the very least you can 2 hit their Tornadus with Heavy Impact without the Ruins. Helps at speeding up the dragons in a pinch.

Terrakion is bad with Donphans, you should consider dropping it. EQ won't be good because it puts it in range of Bolt Strikes which really sucks if it can't last a turn or force them to Plus Power. If you're using it for the revenge KO, you're better off setting up Bouffelant instead because it's easier to drop a DCE and it will get OHKO by the returning pokemon anyway. If you ran those, keeping the Rocky Helmet might not be a horrible idea.

Sages is bad, drop them and replace with Gear/Random Receiver.

Heavy Ball should be 3.
 
Rikko145 said:
You'll spend 3 turns using Earthquake, scoring probably only 1 KO unless you use a PlusPower or two. Then you send up Reshiram to sweep for OHKO's. If they Catcher Donphan, you make sure you save the Switches/Junk Arms in your hand. Also, while you have nothing else to do whilst attacking with Reshiram you can just attach 4-5 energies to Donphan, just in case you need to retreat or fall victim to Crushing Hammer.

Reshiram helps in CMT because it provides a quick way to KO Celebis after there isn't a Mewtwo with more than 1 energy on it (which happens often against CMT, since they need a lot of energy to OHKO Donphan, they'll load up one Mewtwo. However, when it goes down they have nothing else left.). This will score you a garunteed 2 KO's on Celebis, assuming they power up another Mewtwo EX asap.
Click to expand...


Why bother with all of that when you could just use Heatmor which has one less Energy requirement and one less retreat? Durant's a very situational game designed to mill your resources, you can't guarantee on drawing a Switch where as they can on a Catcher.

The bottom line with Reshiram here is that Donphan is one {F} for 60 damage which equals Celebi knockout. It's a more consistent attacker and deals greater damage output to all Pokemon in exchange to Celebi alone whilst also helping you set up. Futhermore, you don't run any DCE, meaning it could take potentially 2-3 turns to get going if not longer. Your resources are designed to support Donphan, NOT Reshiram which also decreases your chances of it actually becoming useful. Lastly, a single {F} plus Exoskeleton is a great counter against Mewtwo EX in itself.

I agree with everything JimboJumbo said bar the exception of Ruins of Alph. I would even debate playing three copies and Catchering around Tornadus until you begin drawing them. Whilst Zekrom is a good idea, there's no point in playing the single copy. Maybe consider adding a few more.
 
JimboJumbo said:
Reshiram is in no way shape or form a counter to Durrant.

If you do send it up, they will spend their time removing the energies that you play on it, keeping it trapped there. The only thing they can do is flip Hammer coins, and can only play a max of 8 of them, provided they use ALL of their Junk Arms on them. That's only averaging 4 energy removals, while as you can see, I run 10 energies. With the deck being so keen on energy denial, you're better off using Donphan against Durrant. You 2HKO Durant, you get milled out and lose. You have to OHKO Durants. Set up a single Donphan and EQ every turn until they're all dead. Maybe a second Donphan on bench because some lists use Mewtwo. Zekrom is easily the better choice of Reshiram because Tornadus. Eviolited Tornadus is taking 20 damage from your Donphans which is quite laughable. Rocky Helmet (20) + Earthquake (60) - 20 for eviolite - 0 (for nullified resistance due to Ruins of Alph) = 60 damage. That's a 2HKO if I use a Plus Power, since I don't want attacked twice.

Ruins of Alph is not a good card for the deck because its not searchable. Chance are when you need it, you won't have it without burning up so many resources to find it, you're better off taking your own advice and just catcher around Tornadus. I intend to Catcher around it until I hit Ruins. Sir, I run 13 draw supporters. Hitting a Stadium I have 2 of should not be a problem.

Rocky Helmet is a waste, switch them out with EXP Share to keep energy on the field. While conserving energy at the very least you can 2 hit their Tornadus with Heavy Impact without the Ruins. Helps at speeding up the dragons in a pinch. Weren't you just saying I wasn't doing enough damage?

Terrakion is bad with Donphans, you should consider dropping it. EQ won't be good because it puts it in range of Bolt Strikes which really sucks if it can't last a turn or force them to Plus Power. Why on earth would I drop a Terrakion against ZekEels unless I see a Zekrom EX? I attack Zekrom EX with Donphan for 120 after dropping the Terrakion. They Catcher KO it, I take 2 Prizes with Earthquake. They KO the active, I take 2 prizes off the Revenge KO or with another Donphan. If you're using it for the revenge KO, you're better off setting up Bouffelant instead because it's easier to drop a DCE How many do you see in my list? and it will get OHKO by the returning pokemon anyway. If you ran those, keeping the Rocky Helmet might not be a horrible idea.

Sages is bad, drop them and replace with Gear/Random Receiver. I just stopped listening. This is an amazing consistency card.

Heavy Ball should be 3. I'd like to run 3, but I haven't the room and Ultra Ball can supplement.
Click to expand...


JamieSerhan17 said:
Why bother with all of that when you could just use Heatmor which has one less Energy requirement and one less retreat? Because outside of that matchup it's terrible. If I can beat Durant without it, I'm definitely not gonna waste deck space. Durant's a very situational game designed to mill your resources, you can't guarantee on drawing a Switch where as they can on a Catcher. How exactly does one guarantee a Catcher? A lot of folks woul really like to know.

The bottom line with Reshiram here is that Donphan is one {F} for 60 damage which equals Celebi knockout. It's a more consistent attacker and deals greater damage output to all Pokemon in exchange to Celebi alone whilst also helping you set up. Futhermore, you don't run any DCE, meaning it could take potentially 2-3 turns to get going if not longer. Your resources are designed to support Donphan, NOT Reshiram which also decreases your chances of it actually becoming useful. Lastly, a single {F} plus Exoskeleton is a great counter against Mewtwo EX in itself. This makes sense. I agree that Donphan does handle Celebi better than Reshiram. Hmm... Now I'm debating on whether I want to play Reshiram or add in another Heavy Ball just for the giggles. :p

I agree with everything JimboJumbo said bar the exception of Ruins of Alph. I would even debate playing three copies and Catchering around Tornadus until you begin drawing them. That's what I said. :D Whilst Zekrom is a good idea, there's no point in playing the single copy. Maybe consider adding a few more. Valid point. But with playing 2 Rocky Helmet, 2 Ruins of Alph, and Max Potion, I don't see a need for a single Zekrom.
Click to expand...

If it weren't for Durant, I'd take out the Reshiram completely. I've tested Durant a lot, and the deck struggles a lot without Reshiram. Reshiram has proven itself to work very effectively against Durant, and the only reason I pick it over Heatmor is because outside of the Durant matchup, Reshiram can still be semi-useful, while Heatmor is dead draw.
 
Rikko145 said:
Reshiram has proven itself to work very effectively against Durant, and the only reason I pick it over Heatmor is because outside of the Durant matchup, Reshiram can still be semi-useful, while Heatmor is dead draw.
Click to expand...

Yes Heatmor can become a dead draw, but if you're considering playing Ruins of Alph and you come across ZekEels or any form of Dark's, then it's the same principle. Durant players can guarantee Catcher simply because unless it's a mirror match (which in this case it isn't), they'll just feed through their decks with Juniper's and N's as their resources will remain untouched. Also not forgetting as soon as you hit that first Prize, out comes Twins! With all that including PokeGear's and Junk Arm's to feed out what they need, you're asking for trouble IMO.

If you're going to include Reshiram, then I personally think this deck needs more synergy to have it in there. I would add some DCE's and possibly some Mewtwo EX. At least this way you can get it attacking on turn 1.

I think I've said enough now to prove my point is valid, however if you do still truly believe Reshiram is the better play and it works for you then go for it.

Good luck to you sir I say.
 
What's stopping them from combining the energy denial with catcher stall, since you will start with Phanpys more than Reshiram, it's very likely you'll have at least 2 pokemon total. This is still difficult to deal with when you consider without Donphan EQing, there won't be damage counters on Reshiram to get it to OHKO Durrants anyway. Keeping that in mind, catcher stall with energy denial will make this difficult with or without Reshiram. I'd still rather set up the Donphan to Heavy Impact every turn. I forgot to take into consideration that Durrant also has SP Metal, so in that case, even Heavy Impact wouldn't kill them in one hit without PPs.

The ruins of Alph, I'd rather run something else in their place. If fighting resistance was such a big deal in the format, I'd give it more thought, but I just think that it's a waste of space in the deck that could be better used for a situational card that will be seen in more situations, like Lost Remover for example.

Rocky Helmet doesn't help your damage output when they can outplay the Rocky Helmets and attack around the target that has it with Catchers. At least with EXP Share, whatever energies you used trying to set up your bench isn't wasted.

Terrakion is still a bad idea in here. Using the same logic you applied to dropping Terrakion, why would they have the need to drop Zekrom EX unless they need it? Your argument there is assuming that the Zekeel player just drops cards for the sake of it. Most people that have it in their list (if they even use it) use it to deal with other EXs, namely Mewtwo because two plus powers is very attainable for the OHKO on a Mewtwo EX, and doesn't allow for a second Mewtwo EX to sweep up the revenge KO.
 
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