Do you look down on it? Especially in a tournament setting.
Stalling
- Thread starter Captain Oats
- Start date
I've noticed a few of my opponents start to play slower and shuffle more after they win game 1 in a top cut match. It's not like the majority of people do it or anything, but it's more common than I would have thought. It's more annoying if they wear a watch. Stalling actually seems like a fairly popular tactic unfortunately.
I don't think there's any excuse for stalling; having time limits on games is a necessary evil, but it gets way too much abuse. That was the one and only good thing about the HS-BW format; the sudden death match would come down to a coin flip no matter what so people had more motivation to finish all their games before time got called.
I don't think there's any excuse for stalling; having time limits on games is a necessary evil, but it gets way too much abuse. That was the one and only good thing about the HS-BW format; the sudden death match would come down to a coin flip no matter what so people had more motivation to finish all their games before time got called.
Stalling happens to me all the time 
. I wish judges would speed people up when they notice a player stalling. I mean, last time I was at a battle roads, I had the upper hand was about to make him run out of Pokemon, which would have made the score 1-1, and he only had one card in his hand. For seriously like 10 minutes, he sat there looking at his card and active pokemon, and then scooped. He had a Horsea out and I found out the card he drew was Kingdra Prime. He should've scooped immediately -.- But thank god it doesn't happen so much to me anymore.
. I wish judges would speed people up when they notice a player stalling. I mean, last time I was at a battle roads, I had the upper hand was about to make him run out of Pokemon, which would have made the score 1-1, and he only had one card in his hand. For seriously like 10 minutes, he sat there looking at his card and active pokemon, and then scooped. He had a Horsea out and I found out the card he drew was Kingdra Prime. He should've scooped immediately -.- But thank god it doesn't happen so much to me anymore.^Well he was probably looking for a way out. He shouldn't just scoop up his cards before he knows for sure there's no way for him to win. And besides, with the 30 +3 rules, if time was called you would have gotten that turn no matter how long he took.
It's different if they play just to keep the prizes in their favor long enough, or play slow enough to make game 2 not count.
It's different if they play just to keep the prizes in their favor long enough, or play slow enough to make game 2 not count.
With a time limit, it's really hard to not stall. Every turn deserves some good thought process. On the other hand, if Felipe over here is taking his good ol' time eating his burrito and staring off into space, I would go berserk! I think a time extension, (at least ten minutes), is necessary, as stallers will take advantage of this short limit.
EspeonROX said:
Thinking about your turn is fine, even if it takes a while, but what I'm referring to is your opponent taking so long on their turns that you can't play yours even if you play as fast as possible, ending up with them winning a game that they shouldn't have won. I would rather lose if my only way of winning was to stall my opponent out.
I really feel like there is no solution to this problem. I really dislike it when people stall and the only way to make them not stall is to make time go until the match is finished
Celebi23 said:
I have to say this can happen naturally. My wife pointed out to me last night that when I have the momentum in a game I play MUCH faster, while other people I know do the opposite. Sometimes this is just a natural rythmn thing, and may not be purposeful. Sometimes all it takes to break this is a simple reminder.
If I'm close to winning on time, I will play out my turns as though I were playing to win on prizes, but I will play it much slower than normal and do as many unnecessary things as I can come up with. In a tournament, a win is a win.
"The end justifies the means."
-Machiavelli
"The end justifies the means."
-Machiavelli
ApachePrime said:
Makes total sense. I at least like to think I'm always playing at the same pace, so I didn't really think that people might just do otherwise on habit/instinct. But I still feel like you should have that same momentum while you'll shuffling up for game 2. At the very least, that shuffle shouldn't take longer than the one at the beginning of the match.
Some games I start out fast then as there more cards on the field and I get a feel for my opponet's deck and play style I start to play slower. Thats just because I have more things to think about. Then with some decks that I know take a while to set up I play a little faster, but if I'm playing a fast deck I play slower and give it more time.
While a win is a win, an unethical win is also an undeserved win. The majority of players people look up to don't do this and frown upon it, but I suppose some people will always want to do it. I'd rather know that I got a well-deserved win (or loss) than know I managed to game the system.Rikko145 said:
There is a difference between stalling and slowplaying. Stalling can be stopping your opponent's attacks (Beartic), doing pointless things (Collector for nothing), and playing mildly slowly. Stalling is perfectly fair and legal. Slowplaying can be both legal or illegal. An example of slowplaying legally is counting to 15 in your head before playing a card. That was my win condition against Gengar Prime at nats. Illegal slowplaying is taking any more than that per play (wasting time). When you are playing against a person who is unfairly slowplaying you, tell them to speed up, and if they go past a 15 second count, call judge and have them active judge your game. Wins should not be taken away due to illegal moves, but the rules are pretty clear as far as time you can have to make plays, so follow those rules ;D
^Thank you, Zero.
That pretty much sums it up for me.
As long as you're following the rules, it's not immoral. But as soon as you try to get around them, you're doing something wrong.
That pretty much sums it up for me.
As long as you're following the rules, it's not immoral. But as soon as you try to get around them, you're doing something wrong.
Whether it is moral or not is your decision. Some people think that playing meta is immoral. Some people think that counting to 15 (I mess up at it) is immoral. That is fine... but unto each their own. The rule book is very specific on certain rules including stalling and slowplaying. As long as you do not force others to follow your system of morality when relating to the game, you're fine having your own opinions. I find that NOT singing at a pokemon tournament is immoral, but I'm not forcing you all to sing with me (you should though).
Right, that last line in my post was just my opinion on it. I agree with you completely.
Indeed, some of the change in tempo is psychological, but for an aware player, there might be deliberate slowness down to mess up a person's pace. While it doesn't look like a distraction, it certainly can affect the clarity of your opponent's thoughts. I keep myself from getting stuck in that situation, and I found that shuffling my hand works and burns the waiting. In that scenario, if someone is trying to stall, they might be changing the tempo to something they're not used to and they might make a mistake and get an outright loss rather than a win by timeout.ApachePrime said:
Either way, unless the stalling is obvious, I won't point it out. Even if it's obvious, it's hard to get a judge to warn the other player on it anyway. So try to find ways to deal with it as a higher priority.