Discussion State of the meta

M

Mistadirtyziggy

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Hey all,

So I am still fairly new to the competitive PTCG scene, and am simply curious about the current meta and how major tournaments, especially top 8's, reflect the overall state of the meta right now. From what I see, there seems to be very little variance in what decks are played in tournaments and especially what decks make top 8, and I wonder if this suggests that the meta is stagnant with just a few dominant decks? Or does is it more of a symptom of being close to rotation so there are fewer established decks and a small card pool compared to later in the format's lifespan? Do you think the meta is in a healthy place right now? Thus far I only play online, and I see a wide variety of decks (though certainly there are a few lists that I see much more frequently like Zoroark, baby Buzz, Garbodor), but wonder if in paper and tournament play if this is also the case. What do you guys think?
 
So to give a more thorough answer, the Metagame is in a weird place that's kind of hard to describe.

The consistency given by draw supporters in this meta is somewhat lacking, where Cynthia and Lillie are the strongest options we have. There are other options, but there isn't anything that compares to the power of Sycamore or N. This definitely is a hit on consistency.

As for the variance of what is played, there really hasn't been too many tournaments in the US this season, and only a few other tournaments that we have deck lists readily available. But, the base of the archetypes that have done well, Buzzwole/Lycanroc, Rayquava/Vikavolt, Buzzwole Shrine, and Psychic Malamar, have very solid bases and have already been proven archetypes. Essentially, the Meta hasn't developed a whole lot (besides Shrine decks actually taking a decent chunk of the metagame) and really only the strongest decks of last season (aside from Zoroark) have developed a foothold on the current Meta.

Now, the big reason Zoroark has fallen by the wayside is because Brigette rotated out, and that setup is what allowed Zoroark to be a consistent deck, because Zoroark GXs were easily setup turn 2 and there was a way to setup many Zoruas on turn 1. Right now, until Lost Thunder, there isn't a setup that is as successful as Brigette, and that's really why Zoroark decks have not been performing well.

Honestly, I don't necessarily think that this Metagame is unhealthy, it's just down right weird because this current card pool is missing a number of cards that so many people are used to (given that there are large portions of people that have started Black and White on or even X and Y on). Consistency is really an element that I think sets Pokemon apart from most other card games, so the lack of it currently is strange and making it feel less like the game we play.
 
The Last Shaymin, would you mind explaining how the meta is unhealthy? All regionals since rotation have had variety in the top 25. No one deck is dominating. Please support your position
 
Really though, there's no real answer to Vika ray, proving that it is better than Buzzwole, which we have just proven to have counters
 
TorchHG said:
So to give a more thorough answer, the Metagame is in a weird place that's kind of hard to describe.

The consistency given by draw supporters in this meta is somewhat lacking, where Cynthia and Lillie are the strongest options we have. There are other options, but there isn't anything that compares to the power of Sycamore or N. This definitely is a hit on consistency.

As for the variance of what is played, there really hasn't been too many tournaments in the US this season, and only a few other tournaments that we have deck lists readily available. But, the base of the archetypes that have done well, Buzzwole/Lycanroc, Rayquava/Vikavolt, Buzzwole Shrine, and Psychic Malamar, have very solid bases and have already been proven archetypes. Essentially, the Meta hasn't developed a whole lot (besides Shrine decks actually taking a decent chunk of the metagame) and really only the strongest decks of last season (aside from Zoroark) have developed a foothold on the current Meta.

Now, the big reason Zoroark has fallen by the wayside is because Brigette rotated out, and that setup is what allowed Zoroark to be a consistent deck, because Zoroark GXs were easily setup turn 2 and there was a way to setup many Zoruas on turn 1. Right now, until Lost Thunder, there isn't a setup that is as successful as Brigette, and that's really why Zoroark decks have not been performing well.

Honestly, I don't necessarily think that this Metagame is unhealthy, it's just down right weird because this current card pool is missing a number of cards that so many people are used to (given that there are large portions of people that have started Black and White on or even X and Y on). Consistency is really an element that I think sets Pokemon apart from most other card games, so the lack of it currently is strange and making it feel less like the game we play.
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Thanks very much for your response, definitely gives me a better idea of things. As I've mentioned I'm recently back into the game, and never really paid too much attention to the competitive side anyways, so a lot of what you said about the game/format is stuff I didn't know. I'd seen people talk about the Supporter lineup being different and that having an effect, but didn't really understand why. From my PoV having played games like MtG and Hearthstone, even this "suboptimal" draw support is way better and more consistent than what I'm used to. You saying it can be even more consistent makes me glad I've gotten back into the game! Thanks!
 
My thoughts on this: firstly, stop whining. We don't have Shaymin ex or brigette but we are getting a new brigette in prof elm, along with a new Shaymin ex in dedenne gx and even a new octillery in zebstrika. But we ALL don't have those things, so everyone is on equal footing with this. As has been said, vika ray, zororoc, gaskan (malamar), and shrine decks have seen the most success, but this is the time right after rotation, where we have the least number of sets to work with. Of course older, consistent things will do better.

Doesn't make me hate Sylveon any less, but that's just me. :p

I kid, but still. The meta will be ever changing, both locally and for bigger events. If you're curious about what's been seeing success, try fiddling with limitless tcg's site. They have tons of great info there.
 
What an incredibly unhelpful thread aside from a few comments.

The meta is diverse, healthy, and awkward. @TorchHG did a good job describing some of the reasoning behind this so I don't need to repeat what has already been said. There isn't a BDIF, as the format is a huge game of rock-paper-scissors with several different decks, and we're about to get an impactful set in the form of Lost Thunder to shake things up even further.

To those that think the meta is bad, I encourage them to look at recent standings of previous Regionals. There are a myriad of deck of options within those top cuts and it's undeniable that the meta continues to shift with every major tournament. At a League Cup I topped this past weekend, we had BuzzRoc, three Psychic/Malamar, Golisopod/Magcargo, Rayquaza, ZoroRoc, and ZoroGarb. You might think that Malamar is undoubtedly the best of this grouping, but other decks continue to flourish and succeed.

Lost Thunder's advent will introduce a bunch of new decks in the form of Lost March, Magcargo-GX, Blacephalon-GX, etc., and consistency support in the form of Professor Elm and Net Ball. I don't think we'll see a meta that's actually solidified for some time while we figure out what's good and what isn't with a set of this size. And honestly, that's part of the fun. This is an exciting time for the PTCG and I can't wait to see what we can come up with as a community.
 
I am really tired of people on Pokebeach incessantly complaining about the state of the standard format. This isn't a toxic format. Expanded format last year was toxic. Guzma is overpowered, but it isn't broken. If you go first, you have an edge on winning (these two complaints are connected somewhat). That's about the only annoying thing about the format right now, and one of the complaints has been a (mild) problem since the game started.

As it has been summarized above, no archetypes are really op right now. Every deck has a weakness. Competitive TCG playing is not about playing weird rogue decks (unless the rogue is anti-meta, at which point the deck becomes a meta deck). Those decks are fun to play, but if you want to win you have to read into the trends and make the best deck choice based on that information. You cant use your favorite cards to win every time. Good cards aren't broken because you can't win against them.

Okay, end of rant.
 
Plaquesanta said:
This isn't a toxic format. Expanded format last year was toxic
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Why use a misnomer buzzword like toxic? Just call it what it really is: a dumpster fire

I have several Expanded decks and enjoy plying within a burning ring of garbage.
 
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