Pokemon Sugimori Hints Gen. VII Will Be Much More Simple

G-Panthera

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http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f693/ken-sugimori-hints-reverting-simplicity-generation-vii-158276/

Interesting link I stumbled upon Gamefaqs while cruising its forums, so I thought to share it here first. It explains that a possible Gen 7 might be more simplistic in terms of features akin to Gen 1. For me, this sounds like a lot of unneeded features are possibly being cut out from the next batch of future Pokémon games, as well possibly less new Pokémon (explaining the 69/72 new Pokemon in Gen 6).

Now, I'm not sure 100% sure of this, so you folks should read this yourselves and form your own judgment. For me, this might be good, depending on what Sugimori means with "simplicity" in Pokémon. Would this mean, less complex designed Pokémon, more "making sense" type of evolutionary lines, etc, etc?

Regardless, this seems like something to keep a eye on.

Note: If this thread is in the wrong place, feel free to move it.;)
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

This might be something that eventually drives me away from the series, I don't like how simplistic 5th gen was compared to 4th gen, and I imagine I won't be as happy with XY for the same reason. The games don't need to be any simpler, they're fine the way they are.
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

Bolt the Cat said:
This might be something that eventually drives me away from the series, I don't like how simplistic 5th gen was compared to 4th gen, and I imagine I won't be as happy with XY for the same reason. The games don't need to be any simpler, they're fine the way they are.

For me, its the same thing really. X and Y have possibly brought the best new mechanics in the game. Removing them again, would be redundant. However, I'm not fully against making things a bit more simple, such as perhaps, slightly simpler designs of new Pokémon. I mean, we already have like 700+ Pokémon here. Having them become more complex, is something I think the series doesn't need. That and I'm already happy enough the IV inheritance in Breeding is much easier this time around.

Would be a shame if that was removed again, which I don't hope on.
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

Excellent.
It seems Sugimori confirms what I had hoped for and suspected with X and Y. They are finally cleaning house and streamlining the games.

To prevent misunderstandings further down the thread, let me make something clear:

The interview is comprised of quotes from sugimori; just the interviewer's interpretation of their conversation, so it's bound to not be completely accurate.
Second, when sugimori talks about "simplicity" he is not referring to making a grass type dog that looks like a green dog. In design, simplicity is not the laziest way to do things, it's the smartest way to do things. Pokemon red was simple. For its time, it was perfectly executed; you had a wide variety of creatures, the vast majority catchable and usable, tons of moves, which fulfilled specific functions depending on the pokemon that could learn them, never overlapping movepools. later, more things were built on top of that base: more moves, more pokemon, more mechanics, etc. But many of those things were just experiments GF conducted in their games that didn't had the result they hoped for, or were just plain stupid.
See how since the second gen, we've had pokemon carry items, but the national park's safari game didn't carry on; or how berry planting in 3d gen became just harvesting in 4th gen and a portable grower in heartgold/soulsilver, and in 6th gen they finally got it right by just giving you an orchard to grow an assload of berries. Or how contests became different contests, then pokethlon, then musicals, then movies.

Now the franchise is sitting on a pile of crap leftover from the previous games, and everything is a mess. I don't think they will remove pokemon, nor moves (at most they will tweak a lot of them to make them more unique) but a lot of mechanics could be streamlined and combined; they got a lot of things right in XY: the berry farm, megaevolution, the super training, pokemon amie, I don't think they'll get rid of them (and they SHOULDN'T) since they are new additions and they are legitimately good: berries were always scarce in the games, making using them either worthless or a limited resource, mega evos put some pokemon on par with legendaries in the metagame (although they made a mistake in making them widely available in the games so soon: Megaevolution should have happened the first time you face the champion. That's how you build up a feature and keep gameplay balance, GF!), EVs were always a pain in the ass, but somewhat necessary, now they are less of a pain, and could be even entertaining; and pokemon amie is just the bestest thing ever in any pokemon game, period. they could, for example, remove IVs and increase the maximum amount of EVs possible, effectively making pokemon more powerful yet unique (the more EVs there are, the more varied the stat spread could be and more possible to balance pokemon), they could, also, completely revise every movepool (ampharos can't learn dazzling gleam and tail glow, let that sink in for a minute). First gen pokemon could learn post-first gen moves that fit them and don't learn moves that don't by common level up at reasonable levels instead of the current mess that their movepools are, and that also goes with the other gens.
They have a lot to fix. graphically they are done; XY was all about beauty, both the good and the bad: the games are gorgeous, but also incredibly shallow. Now, gameplay is next, and hopefully, story. hopefully the 7th gen will have the 3d cel-shaded goodness of XY with the streamlined, simple gameplay of 1st gen, plus the good additions the previous years brought with them. And, with any luck, a equal or better story than BW.
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

Largely depends on what it is they pull out of the system. There are a lot of side-stuff I've mostly ignored over the generations (Contests are a big one), and we could have lived without the clothes-buying in XY. I could live without roller skates.

But I'm not sure they should be removed, because there are people who love that stuff. It's not all about me.

Really, at this point, what 'simplicity' means is pretty up in the air, near as I can tell. I certainly want some new moves and Pokemon in each generation, though I can understand not wanting to drop 150 every gen.
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

I am inclined to call BS on this by virtue of the fact that Gen 6 is already far too simple as it is. How could they make something simple enough for even a 5-year-old simpler still?

But knowing Trollfreak, they will find a way.
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

professorlight said:
Excellent.
It seems Sugimori confirms what I had hoped for and suspected with X and Y. They are finally cleaning house and streamlining the games.

To prevent misunderstandings further down the thread, let me make something clear:

The interview is comprised of quotes from sugimori; just the interviewer's interpretation of their conversation, so it's bound to not be completely accurate.
Second, when sugimori talks about "simplicity" he is not referring to making a grass type dog that looks like a green dog. In design, simplicity is not the laziest way to do things, it's the smartest way to do things. Pokemon red was simple. For its time, it was perfectly executed; you had a wide variety of creatures, the vast majority catchable and usable, tons of moves, which fulfilled specific functions depending on the pokemon that could learn them, never overlapping movepools. later, more things were built on top of that base: more moves, more pokemon, more mechanics, etc. But many of those things were just experiments GF conducted in their games that didn't had the result they hoped for, or were just plain stupid.
See how since the second gen, we've had pokemon carry items, but the national park's safari game didn't carry on; or how berry planting in 3d gen became just harvesting in 4th gen and a portable grower in heartgold/soulsilver, and in 6th gen they finally got it right by just giving you an orchard to grow an assload of berries. Or how contests became different contests, then pokethlon, then musicals, then movies.

Now the franchise is sitting on a pile of crap leftover from the previous games, and everything is a mess. I don't think they will remove pokemon, nor moves (at most they will tweak a lot of them to make them more unique) but a lot of mechanics could be streamlined and combined; they got a lot of things right in XY: the berry farm, megaevolution, the super training, pokemon amie, I don't think they'll get rid of them (and they SHOULDN'T) since they are new additions and they are legitimately good: berries were always scarce in the games, making using them either worthless or a limited resource, mega evos put some pokemon on par with legendaries in the metagame (although they made a mistake in making them widely available in the games so soon: Megaevolution should have happened the first time you face the champion. That's how you build up a feature and keep gameplay balance, GF!), EVs were always a pain in the ass, but somewhat necessary, now they are less of a pain, and could be even entertaining; and pokemon amie is just the bestest thing ever in any pokemon game, period. they could, for example, remove IVs and increase the maximum amount of EVs possible, effectively making pokemon more powerful yet unique (the more EVs there are, the more varied the stat spread could be and more possible to balance pokemon), they could, also, completely revise every movepool (ampharos can't learn dazzling gleam and tail glow, let that sink in for a minute). First gen pokemon could learn post-first gen moves that fit them and don't learn moves that don't by common level up at reasonable levels instead of the current mess that their movepools are, and that also goes with the other gens.
They have a lot to fix. graphically they are done; XY was all about beauty, both the good and the bad: the games are gorgeous, but also incredibly shallow. Now, gameplay is next, and hopefully, story. hopefully the 7th gen will have the 3d cel-shaded goodness of XY with the streamlined, simple gameplay of 1st gen, plus the good additions the previous years brought with them. And, with any luck, a equal or better story than BW.

That and if they are going to change around things and change/add types, for the love of all GF, add the Water-type to Goodra, because it makes more sense, then just Dragon-type. Make Pokémon have types that make sense.


DNA said:
I am inclined to call BS on this by virtue of the fact that Gen 6 is already far too simple as it is. How could they make something simple enough for even a 5-year-old simpler still?

But knowing Trollfreak, they will find a way.

Yeah...all Pokémon will be a Pikachu of different types, or all types save for Normal will be removed. Simple enough. LOL:D
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

DNA said:
I am inclined to call BS on this by virtue of the fact that Gen 6 is already far too simple as it is. How could they make something simple enough for even a 5-year-old simpler still?

But knowing Trollfreak, they will find a way.

Please, describe how 6th gen is far too simple. And if you feel like it, how it should be, in order to not be as simple.
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

I think it's a little too early (and a little too difficult) to know exactly what Sugimori meant. Not only was the article's author summarizing (and including his/her own thoughts) as to what Sugimori was saying, but it was also translated from Japanese. It's similar to a game of Telephone -- even if unintended, things are often lost in translation, from source one to source two to sources three and four.

My thoughts can be summed up, largely, by professorlight's post. I don't think we can glean too much from the article, especially not details such as the number of Pokémon Gen VII will bring. I think Gamefreak's main goal will be to streamline the Pokémon experience.
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

CMP said:
I think it's a little too early (and a little too difficult) to know exactly what Sugimori meant. Not only was the article's author summarizing (and including his/her own thoughts) as to what Sugimori was saying, but it was also translated from Japanese. It's similar to a game of Telephone -- even if unintended, things are often lost in translation, from source one to source two to sources three and four.

My thoughts can be summed up, largely, by professorlight's post. I don't think we can glean too much from the article, especially not details such as the number of Pokémon Gen VII will bring. I think Gamefreak's main goal will be to streamline the Pokémon experience.

That I agree with as well. They already streamlined the trading and battling online parts well. Don't need to go to a Pokémon center in the game anymore for instance.
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

If they want to make Pokémon more simple, they should remove IV:s. That's it. It's not like there are too many moves to remember and crap like that. wtf?
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

CMP said:
I think Gamefreak's main goal will be to streamline the Pokémon experience.

I'm good with this. Removing the number of hoops one has to jump through is a good thing. They did it with EVs and IVs, they did it with berry farming, they did it with breeding, they even did it with catching legendaries.
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

And if you feel like it, how it should be, in order to not be as simple.
Rewind to HGSS. Problem solved.

Why do you think Gen 6 isn't simple? It's made for children and gives you all the easy ways out.
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

professorlight said:
Excellent.
It seems Sugimori confirms what I had hoped for and suspected with X and Y. They are finally cleaning house and streamlining the games.

To prevent misunderstandings further down the thread, let me make something clear:

The interview is comprised of quotes from sugimori; just the interviewer's interpretation of their conversation, so it's bound to not be completely accurate.
Second, when sugimori talks about "simplicity" he is not referring to making a grass type dog that looks like a green dog. In design, simplicity is not the laziest way to do things, it's the smartest way to do things. Pokemon red was simple. For its time, it was perfectly executed; you had a wide variety of creatures, the vast majority catchable and usable, tons of moves, which fulfilled specific functions depending on the pokemon that could learn them, never overlapping movepools. later, more things were built on top of that base: more moves, more pokemon, more mechanics, etc. But many of those things were just experiments GF conducted in their games that didn't had the result they hoped for, or were just plain stupid.
See how since the second gen, we've had pokemon carry items, but the national park's safari game didn't carry on; or how berry planting in 3d gen became just harvesting in 4th gen and a portable grower in heartgold/soulsilver, and in 6th gen they finally got it right by just giving you an orchard to grow an assload of berries. Or how contests became different contests, then pokethlon, then musicals, then movies.

Now the franchise is sitting on a pile of crap leftover from the previous games, and everything is a mess. I don't think they will remove pokemon, nor moves (at most they will tweak a lot of them to make them more unique) but a lot of mechanics could be streamlined and combined; they got a lot of things right in XY: the berry farm, megaevolution, the super training, pokemon amie, I don't think they'll get rid of them (and they SHOULDN'T) since they are new additions and they are legitimately good: berries were always scarce in the games, making using them either worthless or a limited resource, mega evos put some pokemon on par with legendaries in the metagame (although they made a mistake in making them widely available in the games so soon: Megaevolution should have happened the first time you face the champion. That's how you build up a feature and keep gameplay balance, GF!), EVs were always a pain in the ass, but somewhat necessary, now they are less of a pain, and could be even entertaining; and pokemon amie is just the bestest thing ever in any pokemon game, period. they could, for example, remove IVs and increase the maximum amount of EVs possible, effectively making pokemon more powerful yet unique (the more EVs there are, the more varied the stat spread could be and more possible to balance pokemon), they could, also, completely revise every movepool (ampharos can't learn dazzling gleam and tail glow, let that sink in for a minute). First gen pokemon could learn post-first gen moves that fit them and don't learn moves that don't by common level up at reasonable levels instead of the current mess that their movepools are, and that also goes with the other gens.
They have a lot to fix. graphically they are done; XY was all about beauty, both the good and the bad: the games are gorgeous, but also incredibly shallow. Now, gameplay is next, and hopefully, story. hopefully the 7th gen will have the 3d cel-shaded goodness of XY with the streamlined, simple gameplay of 1st gen, plus the good additions the previous years brought with them. And, with any luck, a equal or better story than BW.

Well it all depends on what they're doing. I do not want a 1st gen style game that has near zero replay value and undoes the improvements they've made over the years, that would make the game very boring and shallow. Retconning movepools and items, creating game mechanics more in line with the main gameplay, and things like that are fine though, you're just trimming the fat there.
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

I'd like them to stick to one side game (contests, races, etc.) or include them all and make it cumulative each gen. One of those choices because otherwise I feel like I'm either missing out or just annoyed. Why change it so drastically every gen?
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

If by simplifying and streamlining he means ditching pointless, age-old gameplay mechanics like HMs then hey, I'm all for it.

I mean seriously, I've been waiting for that to happen since Gold and Silver.
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

DNA said:
And if you feel like it, how it should be, in order to not be as simple.
Rewind to HGSS. Problem solved.

Why do you think Gen 6 isn't simple? It's made for children and gives you all the easy ways out.

And what was that made HGSS so good that wasn't improved in BW/XY? (besides the overworld pokemon, that is)
How was it made for children? And easy ways out like...?

Bolt the Cat said:
professorlight said:

Well it all depends on what they're doing. I do not want a 1st gen style game that has near zero replay value and undoes the improvements they've made over the years, that would make the game very boring and shallow. Retconning movepools and items, creating game mechanics more in line with the main gameplay, and things like that are fine though, you're just trimming the fat there.

Of course. The postgame was terrible on RB, only the E4 and cable link battles. It improved a lot with posterior games. I never meant they would do another RB, and I don't think sugimori meant that, either.
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

DNA said:
And if you feel like it, how it should be, in order to not be as simple.
Rewind to HGSS. Problem solved.

Why do you think Gen 6 isn't simple? It's made for children and gives you all the easy ways out.

> Hasn't played X and Y
> Can only judge the game based off of other opinions
> Still whinges about how X and Y was made for 5 year olds.

DNA, you aren't in the position to judge, especially since you haven't played the game.

-----

The only things that would make it more simple... For my standards:

- Remove IVs
- Remove EVs
- Remove Breeding
- Remove Shinies
- Remove 3D
- Remove Types
- Make it seem more 'life-like' with typings and evolution

OR,

They could be just talking about making it more convenient:
E.g. PSS, ST and Amie made X and Y more convenient with EVs, trading and battling, and friendship.
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

If I could make just one change, I would...

Allow a free roaming, non-linear main campaign.

One of the fun elements of any RPG is exploration, but in Pokemon this is currently being abandoned for a "more streamlined" approach. Linear maps began in BW1 and have continued to XY, with the player typically unable to progress to the next town if they haven't defeated the gym leader. For an RPG, which really should be rewarding the player for exploration, it's bad game feel. You only really get rewarded for exploration post game (e.g. Mewtwo and Zygarde in XY), but I'd love for there to be juicy secrets along the main campaign too.

HMs are currently being used to allow you to progress along the linear campaign. I wish the designers would pull a Metroid and reward the player for revisiting previous areas which can be opened up further once you acquire the relevant power-up or HM. RBY has good examples of this, such as the power plant and the Jynx trade (or is it Mr Mime?).

Playing the XY campaign isn't truly rewarding because you're not discovering things on your own merit, you're simply being told what to do on a linear setup.
 
RE: Sugimori hints Gen 7 will be much more simple

I don't think they should abandon side stuff like Contest or alike. Aside from Pokéathlon, I didn't like them but still they were something more to do than simply being a mercenary conquering badges.

Like I've said yesterday in another thread, Gen. 7 should be about revisiting regions like Hoenn (and exploring unknown islands), Sevii and perhaps introducing the Orange islands and League with some old Pokémon while adding at least 100 new Pokémon and letting go of Mega-evolutions.

I don't know but would it be too hard to let the player make a choice? Imagine that you're asked (in-game, just like the Lati@s stuff in Emerald) about what kind of building you'd like to see in some plot of land (Vermilion perhaps :p), choosing between Contests, Pokéathlon and Musicals; another ideia would be Hoenn with Contests, Orange with Pokeáthlon type Gyms and Sevii with Musicals.

About customizing the player, I was looking foward to that but I don't mid if they dropped it, as long as they don't make another male player mainly wearing blue like they did with Calem and the guy from B2/W2.

Let's see what's comes out of this future "simplicity" but this Gen. is already being the subject of much debate and many people are already looking foward to Gen. VII so that might be a sign that Gen. VI was very disappointing in many ways!

professorlight said:
(...)
Now the franchise is sitting on a pile of crap leftover from the previous games, and everything is a mess. I don't think they will remove pokemon, nor moves (at most they will tweak a lot of them to make them more unique) but a lot of mechanics could be streamlined and combined; they got a lot of things right in XY: the berry farm, megaevolution, the super training, pokemon amie, I don't think they'll get rid of them (and they SHOULDN'T) since they are new additions and they are legitimately good: (...)

OH, YES THEY SHOULD! Mega-Evolution divided the fans and is nothing but simple, requiring a bracelet, bonding and a stone. Not only that, it's temporary and it may be one of the reasons why Gen. VI has so few new Pokémon, not to say that some of the designs are ridiculous and it was a wasted effort when things like branched evolutions or adding an evolution could be used (according to the Pokémon in question). For the love of Arceus, Charizard and Mewtwo got two Mega-evolutions, something that wasn't even needed in the first place.


G-Panthera said:
That and if they are going to change around things and change/add types, for the love of all GF, add the Water-type to Goodra, because it makes more sense, then just Dragon-type. Make Pokémon have types that make sense.

Not only that but make Pokémon with abilities that make sense. Magnemite's family and Beldum are always seen floating and yet they don't have Levitate. Venomoth and Dustox are flying almost the time and certainly when battling and because they already have Bug and Poison as their type and since Levitate would be ridiculous bacause they fly, they are attacked by Ground type moves. Why couldn't they just add a rule that Pokémon that fly and levitate are not affeted by Ground attacks?
 
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