Games Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Megathread
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Maybe, but how would it play? I think a better Gen 7 rep would be Zeroara
Sakurai could easily come-up with a moveset. I mean he did for Miis, Pac-man, and Villager. And I don't think Zeraora was designed back in 2015 when the game development started, considering that it wasn't in Sun and Moon's code
PMJ
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Sonic and Shadow are already extremely similar in terms of moves. Give Shadow a different running animation and up B animation and you've got yourself an echo.
PMJ
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Link could jump in Zelda 2.
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Yes. There is a reason it's used by the pros. It's been the controller of choice since Melee.
So, just because it's some people's controller of choice that means I need it to get as good as them with that controller only when I could just use the Wiiu/Switch Pro Controller that I am used to and am good with? This doesn't make any sense.
This exactly.
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...-ultimate-limited-edition-gamecube-controller
so i guess that we can get them easily now
https://www.amazon.com/GameCube-Con...a0e59f383e8ec421c1670b71723e26&language=en_US
so i guess that we can get them easily now
https://www.amazon.com/GameCube-Con...a0e59f383e8ec421c1670b71723e26&language=en_US
ARMS wasn't the hit Nintendo wanted it to be. It sold half a million less units than 1-2 Switch for god's sake, and 1-2 Switch is one of the biggest gaming gaffes of a couple years. Considering how few newcomers are being created, and how the call for an ARMs character is wayyy lower than most others, I think the chance of an ARMS character is minute.
This is basically impossible. Not just because if they were included in the game they almost certainly would have been announced alongside the Great Plateau Tower stage, but also because they've clearly been very pushed to create this game at all and their resources have been spread quite thin. Putting the resources into making 4 brand new characters to fill just one character slot is fairly nonsensical. And then compound that with the fact that no one-off Zelda character in history (Skull Kid, Vaati, Midna, Ghirahim) has made the cut before, especially with Midna was much more highly requested before Brawl than the champions are right now, and it's just not even a possibility.jplap said:
[/quote=jplap]Oh, and one more thing: Ultimate is an interesting game, but is that hinting at it being the final SSB game?[/QUOTE]
Sakurai said in an interview that he just wants to make SSBU as amazing as possible and so isn't really considering the future of the series right now. He said it's very unlikely that SSB6 would include every character in SSBU again, though.
See above. No one-off Zelda character has ever got in, and there's no way Skull Kid will get in now that his game is more irrelevant than it was at the release of Melee or SSB4.
Not only is he deconfirmed, but can't jump. I'm in the camp that's still vaguely hoping that standard Toad gets in (though I know it's unlikely), but Captain Toad is entirely impossible. Link has been able to jump since Zelda 2 as PMJ said before, and even if he couldn't there's a difference between simply not jumping and explicitly being incapable of jumping. Dr. Mario also never jumped in his game, but that's because it's a puzzle game. Captain Toad explicitly can't jump because of his backpack, and if you take that off he's a standard Toad with a headlamp, so you might as well just include standard Toad.jessa said:
Eh I don't think so. Firstly this would be square's second rep, even if it's under the Mario banner, and there are much more important series in Square's arsenal that should get in before a SNES throwback, especially in relation to Nintendo: any one of its immense JRPG roster but particularly Dragon Quest, Chrono, SaGa, Mana, or Kingdom Hearts. Then if you want a retro representative for Square, Bub and Bob from the Bubble Bobble series are far more influential than Geno, and would diversify the roster much more by being Smash's whole second puzzle game representative, and Gex was actually a massive name in the platforming genre, with the same level of recognisability as Crash, Spyro, Earthworm Jim, or Jax and Daxter. And then if you're simply reaching for iconography, Lara Croft is even a better choice than Geno, because she's a true video game icon, on the same level of Cloud, despite her lack of connection with Nintendo. Then, secondly, Super Mario RPG is in no way a game deserving of representation. It wasn't even released in Europe until 2008 on Wii Virtual Console, and literally sold worse than Mario Paint. So in short I'd say Geno is possible, but would be 9th on the priority list for Square reps, and I'm not even sure Square would sign off on it. I imagine Square would much rather have as much of their catalogue represented as possible, and if a character from a new series got introduced, then an Assist Trophy, stage and assortment of trophies would follow.jessa said:
This is the only one which I think you might be correct on. My only apprehension is that including Banjo-Kazooie without also including a stage from the series would be blasphemous, and in the Direct they were talking about the number of stages included with finality. I'm not sure if I buy it (not including Rainbow Road or Zero Gate Assault would be really bizarre when they've included much worse and less popular stages, such as Venom for Star Fox, and have doubled up on Mario Circuits for Mario Kart). So certainly there's possibility, especially with how fan servicey this game is, and it would be the best option for a Microsoft-owned representative by far. The only question is getting a Microsoft-owned representative even viable.jessa said:
I don't think a Sun/Moon rep is likely, honestly. With how sparing they're being with newcomers, a rep from Gen VII just seems far less necessary than a lot of the more highly requested characters. Whether it's Tapu Koko or what is by the by, though. Koko is definitely right up there in the list of potential candidates, and sure, there's moveset potential there, but I do also think 3 Electric-Type representatives would be becoming a little too many. I still think Decidueye is the likeliest of the Sun/Moon representatives, but considering I don't think any of em are getting it, it doesn't really matter.jessa said:
Eh. So far every echo fighter has had very similar body-type and properties to the character they're echoing, because that's literally the entire point of them. The reason we're getting so many echo fighters this time around is because the resources are spread so thinly and they wanted to bolster the number of newcomers a bit, and clones (which is what echo fighters are) are much faster to create, and use up much fewer resources. For both Isabelle and Tails they would have to create entirely new hurtboxes and also properties in general -- after all, Tails is generally much slower than Sonic in the canon, and it would be a disservice to the character for his second jump to not reach Yoshi levels of height. Plus, a lot of the body parts Sonic uses in his physical attacks Tails doesn't use in any games. So if they made Tails a Sonic Echo fighter, it would look clunky, wrong, and use more resources than the other echo fighters. That's why Shadow is being considered the likelier option -- he has all the same properties as Sonic in the games already, and so it would be less time consuming to create him. Plus, he was an Assist Trophy in SSB4 already. As for Isabelle, she would just look weird jumping around and fighting with things like slingshots and punches, plus it stands to reason that a dog would have different properties in terms of travel speed than a human would. Villager was already overlooked for inclusion in Brawl simply because Sakurai couldn't envision an appropriate moveset for his pacifst nature. Isabelle takes that to an even greater degree because she's literally just a receptionist, and a dog, and so while seeing a human doing standard punches and kicks etc. can just about fit in the Animal Crossing canon acceptably, seeing a frantic pupper receptionist doing the same things would not emulate the base material of Animal Crossing, and we know that it's Sakurai's design philosophy within smash to make fighters feel like they do in their base material.jessa said:
You're totally right about Ken, though. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we saw almost every existing third party representative get an echo fighter. Sonic - Shadow, MegaMan - one of the other megamen, idk I know there are ones with similar body types but I'm not a fan of the series myself. Pac-Man - Ms. Pac-Man. Solid Snake - Liquid Snake, Ken - Ryu, Bayonetta - Jeanne. Cloud is the only one I'm dubious with, as there isn't really a viable echo fighter option, at least that I'm aware of.jessa said:
So does Dark Samus.
Yeah, Zeraora ain't happening. Not only is it not very popular, but it's also new, and so was made after the character roster was decided (which is just about the first thing they do when developing any Smash game -- confirmed by Sakurai).
No, the Gamecube controller is better. Like sorry, that's just a fact. It's the best controller Nintendo's ever made, which is why it's been used again literally on every single console since -- it was first released 16 years ago and is literally being released again this year. If you play with the Pro Controller you're playing with a handicap and that just seems like an odd choice if you actually want to get into competitive like you said you do.
I mean, it can't tho, cos unless you put a Native Indian headdress on Tails, he's a completely different shape :/The same could be said for Tails
I'll make a list of my wants and predictions later, maybe tomorrow. Very hype for this game, anyway. I mean, I still play SSB4 an awful lot, so I also wouldn't've minded waiting a couple more years, but getting it sooner rather than later can only be a good thing, right?
Understood. But how am I at a handicap to someone with a GC? Again - It makes no sense.
Geno is not only very likely to get into Smash, but one of the likeliest characters so far. He has so much evidence behind him. Firstly, Geno was seriously considered for Smash as early as Brawl, from an interview Sakurai gave. Geno was one of two Square characters to get a Mii Costume for Smash 4, as well. Sakurai also specifically attributes Geno's Costume as a direct result from his popularity. Other characters who got Mii Costumes as a result of the support they received were Chrom, King K. Rool, and the Inkling: all of whom are playable in Smash Ultimate. Geno's popularity is also evident in his placing in a poll conducted by Source Gaming in Japan. Geno is the third most requested character on this poll not in the game yet. He also placed above Cloud, by a fair margin, who many would say is the posterboy of final Fantasy. Based off of King K. Rool and Ridley's inclusion to the game, I'd say that relevance isn't necessarily needed to be added. Ultimate is a game for the fans, and the newcomers revealed so far show that. It's also not like Sakurai asks Square to give him a character to add to Smash. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Game Freak staff have gone on record saying that Sakurai chooses all the Pokemon in Smash himself. If Game Freak, a second-party company, is asked for specific characters to put in Smash, I don't see why it wouldn't be the same for Square. Finally, there was an odd interview that Sakurai gave, where he purchased a mecha figure as reference for a game he was working on. The part in question he was using for reference? The rifle of the figure, mainly its distinct barrel. Who is a popular character who has a gun at the center of his design? That's right: Geno! Right now, I don't see how you can say that Geno isn't likely to happen, especially with all the evidence that points to his inclusion.
It doesn't have to. It's a somewhat ineffable difference, but the Gamecube controller feels more responsive, and to an extent the game is actually designed with Gamecube controllers in mind.
One of the main differences is the second analogue stick. The Gamecube's c-stick is smaller and easier to flick, which is exactly how it's used for smash attacks. The shoulder buttons are also overall better as you can slam them in a little faster, and even the layout of buttons just makes it easier to reach all of them with as little hand movement as possible. If you want some loose reasoning.
Sometimes you just have to accept that something is the way it is because it's that way.
OK, we'll tackle this point by point.
And Ayumi Tachibani was seriously considered for Melee and almost got in, while Tetra / Toon Zelda (and most likely Plusle/Minun) had files in Brawl as playable characters, and Takamaru all but got into SSB4 if not for his perceived low popularity. Characters are considered for the series and then never revisited all the time, so this means nothing.quaking said:
At the end of the day this also doesn't mean anything: another character this is true for is Lloyd Irving, and he's not seriously being considered as a likely newcomer, much moreso just a pipe dream. It's true for Viridi, Black Knight, Dunban, Flying Man, and Akira. It's also true for Ashley and Heihachi, though they're their own category because both are viable candidates for inclusion this time around. Yes, some of the characters who got Mii Costumes thanks to popularity have seen that popularity also become a factor in their inclusion as playable characters now, but it's much more common for those outfits to simply be selected because the character's popular, but not popular enough to get a larger role in the series -- a philosophy Sakurai confirmed in an interview, IIRC.quaking said:
But that's a little misleading, because he ranked tied third alongside Paper Mario and Banjo-Kazooie. That means that sure, Geno's still popular, but not moreso than Paper Mario, who's still getting games released now, and who has had 3 big hits with Paper Mario, Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door and Super Paper Mario, compared with Geno's one relative hit that still sold worse than Mario Paint. And it would be crazy to include both Paper Mario and Geno. The fact that in terms of popularity Paper Mario is going toe-to-toe with Geno in Japan, which is by far where Geno's largest fanbase is situated, also means that overall Paper Mario is actually the more popular character over Geno. After all, Super Mario RPG on the SNES wasn't even released in Europe, and characters (such as the aforementioned Ayumi Tachibani and Takumaru) have been left out of the Smash Bros. cast before due to lack of global appeal. Paper Mario has more global appeal than Geno, so popularity is a factor that counts against Geno, not for him. And the reason why Cloud ranked lower is because he was pretty much considered an impossibility of ever getting included thanks to his only Nintendo game being Theatrhythm. If Sakurai had said in an interview at any point that Cloud was a possibility for Smash, it is a reasonable assumption to make that Cloud would have ranked much higher in popularity polls.quaking said:
This is a point I agree with you on -- to an extent. King K. Rool represents one of the greatest trilogies in gaming, the Donkey Kong Country trilogy, which were all some of the SNES' biggest hits and basically characterise the SNES' library. Ridley is crucial to the Samus-centric Metroid series, and a lot of his requests over the years have been because people wanted more Metroid representation rather than for the love of Ridley himself. Plus, Ridley is an odd choice for you to make here, because he is still relevant in the Metroid series -- the series itself has been dormant for a while, but when games are made for it, Ridley is generally there. This is a game made for the fans, I agree, so the more popular Paper Mario would be the fan choice. Especially because us more hardcore gamers aren't smash's core fanbase -- Paper Mario appeals to the large swathes of casual gamers who have never even heard of Geno. Anyone with a SNES heard of King K. Rool, and anyone who's played Metroid knows Ridley, hardcore or not. A lot of people who've played Mario will know of Paper Mario, if only having seen the game in stores, but Super Mario RPG never reached the same level of recognisability even when it was relevant.quaking said:
But we also know that this isn't a cast iron rule. It was Kojima who first asked Sakurai if he could include Solid Snake in Melee, after all. Furthermore, we also know that Greninja was fully programmed into SSB4 based only off illustrations before XY even came out, and so there has to have been a dialogue between Game Freak and Sakurai there about what rep to include, rather than Sakurai looking at the games and just choosing one. Despite that, I intentionally said "I'm not sure Square Enix would sign off on it", as opposed to saying I'm not sure they'd suggest it (because they definitely wouldn't suggest it). It's feasible that if they were approached about using Geno, they would try and push a different series to be used instead. That would be much more profitable for them in the long run, because they would still be making games using those characters. Obviously this is all speculation, but to completely write it off as a factor is not right, because no one from Square has ever expressed any interest in Geno being included, to my knowledge. Compare that with the masses of developers who have said it would be awesome for their characters to get into the game, such as Shantae and Shovel Knight, and you have a genuine factor to consider when rating his chances.quaking said:
Yes, he has a gun at the centre of his design. He doesn't have a rifle at the centre of his design. To use an 80s anime-style rifle as a reference for Geno would mean Geno in smash would be accompanied by a complete redesign of his character, which is something Sakurai doesn't like doing. The largest overhaul to a character he's ever done is with Pit, and that was still more faithful than changing the gun Geno uses. Connecting that interview with Geno's chances is a huge reach. And if we were to accept that the rifle is being used as a reference, that doesn't by any stretch mean that Geno's playable. It could just as easily be to help model his appearance as an Assist Trophy, or even a regular trophy. After all, any 3D appearance of Geno would be new, in any capacity.quaking said:
Because none of the evidence is legit, tbh. It's clear that Geno is a character that Sakurai is a fan of, and he has a large fanbase. But his fanbase, and relevance, are both lesser than Paper Mario, who is his direct rival. I would argue his other direct rival is Chrono. Chrono Trigger is a much more iconic SNES JRPG than Super Mario RPG (one which actually got a global release, at that), and so if they were to go down the route of Geno, I believe Chrono would be chosen before him. Then, discounting Square entirely, because we know that the number of newcomers are quite slim, Geno has another big rival to take into account in the form of Isaac. While on Japanese polls Geno tends to score higher than Isaac, Golden Sun is actually a JRPG series that's generally more popular in the west than in Japan, and that makes up for the difference in perceived popularity. We also know Sakurai is a massive fan of the series, and there was an interview surrounding Shulk where he said that he ordinarily would never before have considered including a character such as Shulk as he just features in one RPG series or game, but now he thinks he may entertain those kinds of ideas more often. Isaac is a frontrunner for this smash game, and both Paper Mario and Chrono would be preferable options over Geno. It would be cool to see him in Smash, but is it likely? No.quaking said:
PMJ
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Geno and Paper Mario are both terrible choices. Chrono is an even worse option and I pray he never gets in.
With 70+ characters I think any newcomers need a fighting style that stands out from the rest. This is why Robin was such a good addition and why Chrom was specifically not added. K. Rool is the first heavyweight with a counter and the first one with an actual projectile, and Simon is basically the king of keep away, a human Duck Hunt with an arguably better recovery. Inkling has the ink mechanic, and Ridley is basically a meme even though the series needed more heavyweights so as a player of them I fully support his inclusion.
I would support Isaac if his kit actually incorporated synergy in a good way. Otherwise he's just another swordsman, leave him out.
With 70+ characters I think any newcomers need a fighting style that stands out from the rest. This is why Robin was such a good addition and why Chrom was specifically not added. K. Rool is the first heavyweight with a counter and the first one with an actual projectile, and Simon is basically the king of keep away, a human Duck Hunt with an arguably better recovery. Inkling has the ink mechanic, and Ridley is basically a meme even though the series needed more heavyweights so as a player of them I fully support his inclusion.
I would support Isaac if his kit actually incorporated synergy in a good way. Otherwise he's just another swordsman, leave him out.
Oh, I totally agree with you. I was using Paper Mario and Chrono as examples about why Geno is a bad choice, rather than saying that those 2 are good choices. Paper Mario is my personal choice for a new Mario rep, but I don't think we will and will be fine with not getting one, while Chrono I agree doesn't have an awful lot to make him unique compared with other characters. However, both of them are still better than Geno, which goes to show why Geno is so low down on the list of likelihood.
And yeah, I'm fairly confident Isaac will make the cut this time, and have a strong unique moveset hearkening back to the base series. With Felix as an echo fighter, of course.
Apparently there's a rumor that Nintendo will put the e3 SSBU demo setup in Best Buys across America. Hope I can play as Simon .
.No one get offended or anything, but who the heck is Isaac?
Simon wasn't in the E3 build. You likely won't play as him.Apparently there's a rumor that Nintendo will put the e3 SSBU demo setup in Best Buys across America. Hope I can play as Simon
Isaac is the main protagonist of the Golden Sun series on the GBA. He's been a very popular character suggestion this time around, so he's likely going to be in.
Is it the exact e3 demo? I'm starting to think we'll get a direct before this promotion featuring a new character to be put in the demo.