Swoobat/Gardevoir Discussion Thread

[Blah]

Vulpix pretty much hit the nail on the head. 80 Hp means anytime you actually manage to mill a bunch of cards from your opponent's deck, all that energy is going to be lost and then you're back to square one. Gardevoir, as mentioned, is extremely frail, and after they KO Gardevoir you now mill half the cards you would otherwise, as they proceed to continue sweeping the field. This deck would also be running a Stage 2 AND Stage 1's, making it extremely tight space and inconsistent, something that a mill deck cannot function with. There's no room for any disruption cards.

Overall, it just won't be able to set up fast enough. Any attacker in today's format OHKO's Swoobat, and since it's a Stage 1 that requires a ton of energy to mill effectively, it's impossible to get right back to milling immediately after getting KO'd, as it's predecessor Durant could easily do.

 

[Keeper of Night]

Vulpix pretty much hit the nail on the head. 80 Hp means anytime you actually manage to mill a bunch of cards from your opponent's deck, all that energy is going to be lost and then you're back to square one. Gardevoir, as mentioned, is extremely frail, and after they KO Gardevoir you now mill half the cards you would otherwise, as they proceed to continue sweeping the field.

Rescue Scarf fixes that problem

 

[PMJ]

the thing is, by the time you attach enough energy to get anywhere you will be getting 1-shotted over and over. Durant was better.

once your gardevoir gets ko'd this deck falls apart like dominoes.

/thread

 

[Infinity]

@ Keeper of Night
no it doesn't. You still discard the energy.

 

[Keeper of Night]

@ Keeper of Night
no it doesn't. You still discard the energy.

I meant about losing Gardevoir and Swoobat, you really don't lose that much energy since it's all doubled.

 

[scizorlicious]

There are just way too many problems with this. If Swoobat was a Basic, maybe, maybe. But as a Stage 1, you can't honestly expect to keep a steady chain going when it has only 80HP, especially since you also have to get a Stage 2 set up (which will probably also get dragged up and 1-shotted with 110HP). Even if you can keep Swoobat on the field consistently, it's never going to have more than 2 energy attached to it before it just gets KO'd.

Durant needs 4 Basics out at a time. Gardevoir/Swoobat needs a Stage 1 and a Stage 2.
Durant needs one metal energy to attack. Gardy/Swoobat needs two Psychic to mill the same amount.
Durant has at most 10 Pokémon in the deck. Gardy/Swoobat will need at least 13, which would still be very low.
Durant relies on a 70HP attacker. Gardy/Swoobat relies on an 80HP attacker and a 110HP benched Pokémon.
Durant can get started T1. Gardy/Swoobat needs 2 or 3 turns to get rolling.

I'm just not seeing it.

 

[juunkmilk]

What the bad word is Swoobat/ Gardevoir.
Oh it's a mill deck
Swoobat has 80 hp and is a stage 1.
It seems like Durant only way less efficient.
I mean Durant only really worked because it could set up fast and recover easily
With Swoolady you have to set up a stage 2 before you really start doing anything and when they knock out your bat (which will happen immediately) you're kinda cuboned.
I dunno, maybe it will work, bad decks have surprised me before.
✌☹✌

 

[Typhlosionwolf]

-gasp- You negative negative people! Okay. Now I'm determined to make this deck work. :3


I think if built right and practiced with enough then it could be able to hold it's own weight.

 

[Dork Void]

-gasp- You negative negative people! Okay. Now I'm determined to make this deck work. :3


I think if built right and practiced with enough then it could be able to hold it's own weight.

There's a different between negativity and being realistic (although they often overlap). We're not being negative, we're telling the truth in that this is essentially an inferior Durant as it is now, and Durant's not even particularly good any more.

 

[PMJ]

This deck is too weak to Pokemon Catcher. Gardevoir is too integral to the deck's success and with no way to keep it safe on your Bench, it's going to get sniped every single time you get it out until your deck just folds since Swoobat milling by itself is laughable.

If that's not enough to convince you, think of it in terms of output:

An ideal start for Durant would be to mill 4 T1, right? So think what you need to do in order to get that mill of four. Durant needs:

- 4 Durant in play
- 1 Metal Energy

How are you going to get that? Pokemon Communication, various types of Poke Balls, etc. It's pretty easy, since Durant is a Basic and you can put him on the Bench straight away. So more often than not, with a good build, you can get 4 milled on T1.

What does Swoobat need to mill four? (We'll assume T2 here since neither Swoobat or Gardevoir can be in play T1.)

- 1 Swoobat in play
- 1 Gardevoir in play
- 2 Psychic Energy attached to Swoobat

That's a Stage 1 and a Stage 2 that you have to have up and running by T2 at the earliest to do what Durant can do a turn earlier and without burning half as many resources.

And unless you can magically attach four Energy to Swoobat by T2 (try when your opponent isn't looking), Durant will still mill more and he'll do it more consistently.

Even if the Ether gods smile upon you, This deck also has a lot of problems with recovery, as mentioned earlier. It doesn't matter who you lose. If they kill Swoobat, you lose all your Energy, and if you lose Gardevoir, your milling power is halved. Assuming the deck relies pretty heavily on Gardevoir, it's a pretty big target, and it's a lot harder to keep Gardevoir in play than it is to Revive a dead Basic.

Not to mention that with evolutions in your deck you need to devote a lot more resources towards getting them out than you would with Durant, since there are no evolutions.

If Catcher was out of the format, this deck would be much better, but as it stands, it will fail--even with Ether--at tournaments. Keep it at league.