T2 Banette - Shuppet CG = dead?

Z

ze_draeck

I'd like to make myself believe...
Member
Chances that Crystal Guardians will be rotated are 100% (unless POP will do something really weird, which they won't), so Shuppet CG will be rotated out of the format. Now I see that ALOT of people are saying that T2 Banette will be dead without Shuppet CG to use Ascension T1. Yet, Houndoom, Kricketune and more can survive without a Basic to use Ascension T1.

So what makes Banette dead without Ascension and other T2 decks not?
 
Banette is the only Pokemon that needs multiple copies of itself to function. You say that Tune and Doom can survive without an acsending basic because the only need 1 copy of themselves out. True that Tune needs a mentor/great ball swarm aswell, but it isn't a great deck this format anyway. You also have to discard one of your banettes. So while a normal T2 deck requires (example) 1 Houndour, 1 Doom/searcher and 2 energy cards, Banette needs 1 Shuppet, 2 Banette, 2 energy (prefered), 1 Lunatone/other discarder. That's 4 cards vs 6 cards, which is game breaking with a T2 deck. Ofcourse, Banette has the ability to function for 0 energy and revenge kill, which puts it at 4 cards (2 Shuppet, 2 Banette) but that is extremely unlikely and gives you the same formula as the others. The ONLY way it can be better is 1 Shuppet, 1 banette = 2 card donk. But if your deck relies on that, then you are screwed laterer game.
 
A skilled player could well handle banette without shuppet CG. True T2 banette will fade off a bit but the other banette variations will still be used. The main problem for banette is just the rotation of DRE. The main problem most decks are facing now.
 
Even if T2B will go out, which it will, there still will be many T2 decks, especially with the TM, just like Ascension...
 
Oh yeah, that'll fix the problem. But the ascension in shuppet is built-in. No need to waaste 4 valuable deck spaces for it.
 
Thou Shall Sleep said:
A skilled player could well handle banette without shuppet CG. True T2 banette will fade off a bit but the other banette variations will still be used. The main problem for banette is just the rotation of DRE. The main problem most decks are facing now.
Click to expand...

The italicized part is the part which I do not understand. Banette decks are meant to be fast, very fast. That would mean that any player that can possibly play a Banette deck in the next format cannot produce such T2 consistence as the current Banette decks are going through now. What other successful Banette variants can you come up with? The so called 'Ghostly Blades' did not work that well. Any others? I doubt it.

The rotation of Double Rainbow Energy/Scramble Energy is not going to stand in the path of Banette. Most Banette decks run Crystal Beach to slow down your opponent's setup and etc. Sometimes, players run a Double Rainbow Energy tech, just to hit your opponent for a quickie.

As far as I know, there is no card so far that can search for a Technical Machine. Even if there is, it wouldn't provide such consistence compared to right now. This is because - what are the odds of you starting with one Shuppet and the Technical Machine that is similar to Ascension? And even if there is a card to search for a Technical Machine, what are the odds that you start with it? It's not going to help this deck at all. Or even alter the format.

Based on my views, Banette decks will not have a chance in the next format, which will possibly be DP-on.
 
Bannette can be played without Shuppet CG but it isn't exactly the same. You could play with rare candy but, yeah, it's not the same.
 
Yay, a thread about the deck I've played for so long. ^^
Banette was always different, even from other T2 decks. You could easily run techs in other T2 decks without ruining them, but not that many in Banette. Since you want to T1 Ascend every single game, as it's one of the best basic attacks there is for a non-starter (ie, something that can evolve in something that attacks)
... *cliffhanger*
Until recently. Now that we have Phione (and, a bit less important here, Call Energy), every single stage 1 Poke is possibly a T2 Poke, as long as its Basic lies on the Bench with the little legendary water muffin (seriously, what is it supposed to be?!) Active. This even allows for stage 2s to be as fast as stage 1s used to be, even without the help of Candies in some occasions (little deck space or whatever). Sure, they won't be attacking T2; the Wish fish still needs to be sacrificed or retreated first. But attacking T2 is dead anyway because of Pachi, which has a full bench on T2.
So where is Banette now? Same place it always was: the fast G&G counter. But G&G won't be the best deck around for long, and Banette can't be the best T2 deck anymore after Worlds. Why? Because it's not a stand-alone Spitefully Paining machine anymore without Shuppet CG and will just have to rely on Celio's and Phiones like every other T2 beast. And its main prey will be gone to a certain extent. Also, Ghost Head donking is not going to work anymore in this very support-crowded format.
As for DRE, I've only ever teched in one in my T2 Banette and never had much use for it. If anything, it doesn't add very much speed.
 
Thou Shall Sleep said:
A skilled player could well handle banette without shuppet CG.
Click to expand...

That's it!

You NEED to be skilled to put 4 banette, 4 bebe, 4 quickball, 4 stuff and shuffle your deck in a way that you can pull 2 banettes in your 2nd turn, no luck involved.
 
It certainly makes the deck weaker, that's for sure, but not all the t2 decks have t1 pokemon that tutor for their evolutions. Of course, part of what made banette so powerful is that it could tutor, so...

Ya, it's dead. Not because it's bad, but because now there are better options.
 
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