Take Backs at Tournaments

Maximinn

Maximinn

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I just finished playing in my first two City Championships last weekend. I had never played in a tournament before and someone warned me at league that I'd need to play very carefully since tournaments are stricter than normal play and you need to be very precise about what order you do things in (e.g. Play Ultra Ball and discard cards separately, Fan Club to your hand THEN bench the Pokemon, etc).

I was surprised to find this didn't seem to be the case at all and, not only were people casual about the order they did things, a lot of people asked to take moves back once they realised they had misplayed.

For example:
  • Playing a Jirachi EX to the bench when Wobbaffet PHF was active and then taking it back when they realised they couldn't use stellar guidance.
  • Discarding 2 cards for Ultra ball, beginning the search, then changing their mind about which 2 cards they wanted to discard.
  • Retreating the active pokemon and then changing their mind about what they wanted to switch into once the new one is active.
  • Attaching energy to a pokemon, then taking it back and attaching it to something else instead.

Not all my opponents did this of course, but enough did that I found it surprising, particularly since I'd been warned that I needed to be much more careful about my plays and the order of operations at tournaments. I had no idea what the protocol was in these situations so I usually just let them do it.

Is this normal behaviour at tournaments? Presumably this wouldn't fly during top cut matches when there's a judge sitting next to you (although I wouldn't know since I didn't stay for top cut at either tournament). What moves do you allow people to take back?
 
Whether or not to allow take-backs in a tournament depends on who you're playing against, and even the specific play that was made, though almost all of the time it shouldn't happen. According to the official rules, it is up to your opponent to decide whether or not a take-back is allowed at any point during a match. The "unwritten rule" in regard to this is similar to chess- you can't undo playing a card (without asking permission), but if you're stil holding onto it and haven't let go yet, you should be able to put it back to your hand. For example, if you put an energy onto one of your Pokemon, but haven't yet taken your hand off it or done anything else, you should be able to move it to another Pokemon or take it back without a problem. Once you release your grip though, it's considered in play. And keep in mind that some players may not even go this far, so do make your plays carefully.

Of the situations you've described. the one that gets me the most is changing the cards you've discarded via Ultra Ball after you've begun the search. I would never allow my opponent to do this, as they know have knowledge of their deck's contents, which could affect which cards they want to toss away. The other situtuations I would group into what I said in the last paragraph. If my opponent hasn't released the card from their hand, it means they're still thinking and haven't commited to the play, so I'd let them take it back. But once they've let it go (meaning they were certain that's what they wanted to do, at least for a moment), then I won't let them go back.

Remember that as an opponent it is your decision to allow the other player to take moves back or not/ In a competitive event with prizes and CP on the lineyou can expect yourself and your opponent to be as the peak of their game, and analyzing plays carefully. For example, let's say you were playing me in a tournament, and I attach an energy to one of my Pokekmon, but then realize that by attaching to a different Pokemon and retreating, I could KO your active and take a prize (or two). Would you let me take the move back? Probably not, no matter how nicely I asked, because you don't want me to get ahead in the game. I know it doesn't suond like the nicest thing to do, but this is a competitive event, and I should be analyzing better to avoid misplays. Even friends playing each other in a tournament don't allow take-backs. There is no shame in it, and your opponent should understand. There is no reason to give your opponent an unecessary advantage, especially if they need to ask your permission! If your opponent does try to take a move back without your permission, call a judge.

However, you should not apply this to casual games. When playing for fun at League or another casual setting, you should allow take-backs. The first reason is that one-sided games aren't as fun, and if one or both players isn't having a good time, the game isn't as meaningful. Second and more importantly, when playtesting you should try to reproduce a game played in top condition as accuratley as possible. If you think your opponent misplayed while playtesting, you should even inform him or her of what you think was the right move, and give them the chance to do it. This works to the advantage of both players, because it shows your opponent what the optimal play is, and if it sets you back, will test your ability to pull out of a crisis while there aren't any prizes on the line.
 
As said above, the only scenario I ever allow is if they're still holding the card. Once they've put the card down then it's all fair game and they shouldn't be allowed to take it back. That's why making your plays carefully is necessary. If it's something that absolutely should never be taken back though such as shuffling into the deck, then they have no right to take that move back even if they ask permission.

A good example is yesterday at league, while I normally allow take-backs since it IS in a casual environment, I ended up forcing my opponent to play Lysandre's Trump Card because he had no other option in order to get the cards he desperately needed back into his deck. During the middle of shuffling he realized that he had no fighting energy in his discard pile (and I've disrupted his entire bench so he had no other energy in play) so his Landorus wouldn't be able to charge the bench and he had no energy to play since that was the last card in his hand. He asked for a take-back when we had both began shuffling our discard piles into our decks so I told him it was impossible to take back that move.
 
Thanks for the input guys. The Ultra Ball play was the only one I did actually object to and she was fine about not being able to take it back. I was just surprised she asked. The "still holding the card" rule sounds like a good rule to go by at tournaments. I'd allow pretty much anything to be taken back during casual practice.

I learned to be careful with Lysandre's Trump Card after seeing a couple of people lose games by accidentally shuffling their hand into their deck along with their discard pile.
 
Usually, anything that doesn't involve shuffling cards back into the deck, I'd allow a takeback. However, in a tournament situation, it depends on the nature of the play. If it's a mistake that is not malicious or an attempt to gain the edge, then I'd allow it. Otherwise, I'd call the judge over to help.

EDIT: However, I'd only allow ONE takeback in a competitive environment since it is more easier to make a mistake. That has bitten me back in the arse a few times but at least the opponent was gracious in victory when that happens.
 
Lol I guess I'm "that guy" at tournaments. I call on everything
At regionals last year this guy said "Megalo Cannon for Knockout"
And I'm like "sorry Megalo Cannon doesn't knock me out"
And he said "I meant G-Booster"
Called a judge, I won the call. Only did 100 damage. Then again that's a pretty competitive environment. Although, anything that's >League Challenge I act like that
 
I wanted to comment about the Ultra Ball take back. The player already knows the entire contents of their deck when they play Ultra Ball, so looking through the deck gives no advantage. Their deck will contain everything not in hand or discard, so at all times they know what is remaining in their deck. Allowing them to change their discard choice after looking through deck isn't any more of a "take back" than any of the other situations.
 
Zing said:
I wanted to comment about the Ultra Ball take back. The player already knows the entire contents of their deck when they play Ultra Ball, so looking through the deck gives no advantage. Their deck will contain everything not in hand or discard, so at all times they know what is remaining in their deck. Allowing them to change their discard choice after looking through deck isn't any more of a "take back" than any of the other situations.
Click to expand...
They'd gain knowledge of what is or isn't prized, which can be a very big deal in a competitive environment.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top