Discussion Tate and Liza vs Cynthia

ForeverRanger91

ForeverRanger91

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Is the one card difference worth it to shell out around 30 USD for 4 Cynthia when you can get a play set of Tate and Liza for around 2 USD? This is more for budget players or new players who don't have that much cash laying around. The obvious answer is to go buy 2 Mach Strike SD's for around 25 bucks total and say thank you but what if you can't find them or can't buy them online?

So is it worth spending the money on Cynthia?

For me the real answer is to play with what you can find. I got lucky and pulled all 4 of my Cynthia's out of packs. Some aren't that lucky. The one card difference can be huge in certain situations but in reality they are the same card with the twins having the added bonus of being a Switch. If Cynthia weren't a thing, I imagine the twins would be the same price Cynthia is now.

My current draw supporter line up is 4 Cynthia, 2 Tate and Liza, 2 Lillie and either Judge or Copycat depending on the deck. If you only have say 1 or 2 Cynthia, reverse the numbers with Tate and Liza. If you don't have any, you could go with a Hau or Kukui in a pinch or play another Judge.
 
This makes sense, and I also use the same trainer format as what you posted. In my opinion I think Tate and Liza are better for the added switch, but Cynthia is a good card as well.
 
I firmly stand at my position that Cynthia is just better somehow. Is it good to shell out $30? Absolutely not, unless you have $30 just waiting to be spent and you really want them.
 
The one card can come up clutch but for me the difference is almost negligible in most situations, especially in decks like Zoroark or Ludicargo.
 
If your going to play the next few years you need cynthia. Theres a reason why shauna was never used 5 cards is not allot even now lillie is used over other draw cards because its potentiall to grab more than 5. If you dont want to shell out the money which is not that much by tcg standards then that's fine but if your asking whether cynthia is needed over tate and lizza them yes you need 4 Cynthia's and you need 4 lillies in most non zoro decks
 
ForeverRanger91 said:
Is the one card difference worth it to shell out around 30 USD for 4 Cynthia...
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I had no idea Cynthia cost that much. I'm a PTCGO player, so I can always just obtain her via Theme Decks. If she is legitimately better than Tate & Liza for most decks (which I believe to be true), and I was trying to get into the physical TCG, I'd be scrounging for a decent buy on the following Theme Decks:

Twilight Rogue
Mach Strike

as they contain one and two copies of Cynthia, respectively. Even if most of the cards are in low demand, you may still be able to spread out some of the acquisition cost. I mean, some of these might just be sitting on a shelf at your local Wal-Mart or hook at a gas station for about the same price you pay for a single Cynthia. @_@

Now, why do I think she is significantly better than Tate & Liza for most decks? It is as others say; shuffle-and-draw for six cards is just that much better than shuffle-and-draw for five. That one extra card makes it easier for Cynthia to "dig deeper", in addition to providing you a larger quantity of (potential) resources. The difference is small, but I think the proof of the pudding is in the eating... or rather, the proof the card potency is in the results of playing. It is possible most high-level tournament players are mistaken and their Cynthia/Tate & Liza counts ought to be reversed, but I don't think so.

However, if you are a new player to the game, I wouldn't casually drop $30 USD for four copies of Cynthia. If you've got the money, splurge for the Full Art versions so that, if she gets a reprint, she'll retain some (maybe even all) of her value. Otherwise, make do with what you can afford, and be bargain hunting for copies of Cynthia. Maybe gravitate towards lists that don't need a full four count. Still, try to build up to a full playset, however. Only drop the cash (or equivalent in trades) for her if you're otherwise ready to leap into mid-level (or better) competitive play.
 
The difference is certainly not negligible, as in this game, +1/-1 card can make you win/lose a match. So, yes, Cynthia is better.
 
There's more advantages to be found in the extra 1-card advantage that Cynthia provides than the emergency switch option that Tate & Liza puts on the table, at least on average. If card draw becomes stronger or Pokemon are becoming more prone to being stranded in the active spot, Tate and Liza will likely see more play, but there's a lot of "wait and see" with that.
 
As a stall player I hate to see Tate & Liza on the other side, but I've also never run one even when I played high-retreat pokemon. That extra card really, really matters - I played Shauna back in the day and saw the difference first-hand. I'd even consider Sightseer a stronger option than Tate & Liza, and run 1 because I'm only allowed 4 Cynthia. (Also 2 Copycat, but I'm not sure that's generally correct, especially with all the Oranguru in format - then again some decks build really big hands.)

Card price generally reflects effectiveness, rarity, and versatility. Cynthia is an uncommon, and draw supporters fit in virtually every deck - it's just really that good.
 
birdboy2000 said:
As a stall player I hate to see Tate & Liza on the other side, but I've also never run one even when I played high-retreat pokemon. That extra card really, really matters - I played Shauna back in the day and saw the difference first-hand. I'd even consider Sightseer a stronger option than Tate & Liza, and run 1 because I'm only allowed 4 Cynthia. (Also 2 Copycat, but I'm not sure that's generally correct, especially with all the Oranguru in format - then again some decks build really big hands.)

Card price generally reflects effectiveness, rarity, and versatility. Cynthia is an uncommon, and draw supporters fit in virtually every deck - it's just really that good.
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By the end of the day, though, rarity notwithstanding, versatility is always going to be put on a higher podium than effectiveness when determining prices of a card. Even if there's one card that's the ultimate card in only one deck, it will normally lose out to the card that will see ritual and effective use in multiple decks, even if the card isn't one of those cards that can turn a basically lost battle into a 50/50 in an instant.
 
I get that Cynthia is better than Tate and Liza but I don't know if you can justify the price tag over the one extra card. I get the one card is important but try to convince a new player or one that is on a budget that it is worth the 27 USD extra. If I am building a deck on a 100 USD budget, I am grabbing 4 Tate and Liza's all day long because that extra money means I can include at least one Tapu Lele GX depending on the deck.
 
I do play both but this discussion is if you had to buy 4 of one or the other, is the extra card from Cynthia worth the extra money. We are talking almost 10x more money for a play set of Cynthia compared to a play set of Tate and Liza.
 
For me, the extra card just helps. If a deck isn’t a mill deck or overloads itself on supporters, you have the general ability to play many, if not all, the cards in your hand. Cynthia gets a wider scope then T&L. T&L has a secondary effect, but purely in this discussion, THE EXTRA EFFECT DOESN’T MATTER. I think that 25 dollars for this staple is nowhere near reasonable for, when it comes down to it, sheets of cardboard. I say do a compromise for as much money as you’re willing to spend on the game. If you want to spend 15 dollars, go for the 2/2 split. You get the boost from Cynthia and the cost-relief from T&L in one package. I would just go the full 25, but that’s me.
 
I think it's ok to replace cynthia in some decks but in combo decks like stage 2 decks (where you need rare candy + pokemon), it's really bad because 1 card will destroy absolutly your outs of getting your combo. That's also the case for stage 1 decks that is a big part of the meta.
As well, it's not a great card because, if you wanna switch your active pokemon, every other options are better (switch, escape board, guzma...) and it's not that great as a draw supporter at the same time so it's kinda "meh".

I can see it in a koko or passimian deck or in some other basic non GX decks.
 
The charm I find with Tate and Liza is that it doubles as a draw card or a switch card. Drawing 5 cards is nice, but having another supporter for switching cards when you could've just had Guzma, then have had Cynthia for drawing 6 instead of 5, just makes the card take up space right now. One day Guzma and Escape Rope aren't to be in the Standard Format baring any reprint, so Tate and Liza might find time to shine then. Every year you see cards that people will say "lol trash will never get used" about cards like Lillie. But, here we are; Lillie sees play. All but one Top 8 deck in Roanoke played Lillie.

Cynthia is as expensive as it is not only because it's a good card, but also because it was out of print. It used to be an $8 card, now it's around $5 or $6. I picked up 4 in Roanoke for 18, which was a steal for me. I see blister sets of Ultra Prisim at retail now. I don't know if that's because they started printing the set again or if there was a warehouse full of them that they forgot about.

I've got some decks at my league that I use Tate and Liza in since I'm stretched between 16 Cynthias in four other decks. Sometimes I even play Professor Oak's New Theory from my old cards just to make due.
 
ForeverRanger91 said:
I do play both but this discussion is if you had to buy 4 of one or the other, is the extra card from Cynthia worth the extra money. We are talking almost 10x more money for a play set of Cynthia compared to a play set of Tate and Liza.
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If you care about winning then buying 4 cynthia is part of the price you pay
 
ForeverRanger91 said:
I do play both but this discussion is if you had to buy 4 of one or the other, is the extra card from Cynthia worth the extra money. We are talking almost 10x more money for a play set of Cynthia compared to a play set of Tate and Liza.
Click to expand...

You can't have the discussion "is it worth the money" without the context of what money is worth.

If you're building a $50 deck, then probably not? But if you're building a $200 deck, then probably so. It all depends on what other choices you're going to have to make with that $30.
 
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