TCG Bi-Weekly Survey #4: Scooping

[Rikko145]

1. If that's your way of paying him back, then go ahead and scoop. But it's not really necessary.

2. I'd never let that slide in the first place.

 

[Brave Vesperia]

Alright, so it seems like most people agree that scooping is okay, whether they would do it or not. However, here are a couple somewhat more difficult situations for you guys, which I've also encountered before.

First, suppose you're borrowing two of your friend's Mewtwo-EX's because your deck needs them but you don't have any of your own. You get paired up with him and beat him fair and square. Do you scoop to him because you're using his cards?

And second, suppose you make a terrible mistake that will result in a game loss (like playing two shuffle supporters on the same turn). Your opponent lets you take it back and fix it without calling a judge, so you can continue playing the match. After the match ends, you win. Should you give them the win because you should have lost? What if it was a different kind of misplay that doesn't break game state but would still lead to a loss, like announcing Outrage instead of Bolt Strike?

I'm having trouble thinking of an answer for the first one.

As for the two Supporters, I'd rather take the loss than have a dis-honest win like that. With the 2nd situation, I would tell my opponent that I meant to say Bolt Strike, and if they tell me that Outrage was used instead, I would have to call a Judge because this would confuse me as to what to do next.

 

[Puckstopper20]

IMO, I don't think scooping is ethical. I also don't understand why someone would want to scoop in the first place! The only time I think it's okay is when you're playing best 2/3 like a few of you have said. As far as the 'spirit of the game,' or 'heart of the cards' or whatever you want to call it goes, where is it if you're going to scoop? It's like you don't WANT to win when you scoop..

Personally, I play a 'pedal to the metal' kinda game regardless of who I'm playing.. I've played my friends in swiss and I did my best to play them just like anyone else. It does suck to win or lose against a friend, but where's the 'spirit' if you don't want to play against a friend..?

Should players be able to do it?

Sure, I wont stop someone if they want to scoop against me.. I've only been in the competitive scene for about 8-10 months, (1 year in September yayyyy) but I've never scooped. Even if I'm down 1-6, I'd rather get prize sweep and go down trying than giving up..

Celebi's Situations

First, suppose you're borrowing two of your friend's Mewtwo-EX's because your deck needs them but you don't have any of your own. You get paired up with him and beat him fair and square. Do you scoop to him because you're using his cards?

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!! I'd appreciate the kindness and thank him for helping me, but like I said, I play every game the same.

And second, suppose you make a terrible mistake that will result in a game loss (like playing two shuffle supporters on the same turn). Your opponent lets you take it back and fix it without calling a judge, so you can continue playing the match. After the match ends, you win. Should you give them the win because you should have lost?

No.. Again, if they let it slide, it's on them. There are PLENTY of jerks or stiff players that are reaaaaaaaaaally strict about misplays and mistakes you make. Thanks for letting it pass, I appreciate it. It's one of those things that people end up regretting at the end of a match.

What if it was a different kind of misplay that doesn't break game state but would still lead to a loss, like announcing Outrage instead of Bolt Strike?

I don't let myself get away with these.. If I make a mistake on my plays I usually don't take them back even if they say go ahead.. It's more of a learning technique for me.. That way I don't make the same mistake next time.

 

[Juliacoolo]

No and no. Gosh I hate people who try to take advantage of simple harmless mistakes. Once a kid called a judge on me because my elbow pushed one of my benchmons up a couple inches when i was going to attach an energy to my main. Accused me of going in for a retreat and trying to stop and cover it up >.>

I always let people take things back, unless they like already ended their turn and want to redo the attack or something. I think it's against the Spirit of the Game to try to take advantage of little things.

This is especially true for Pokemon, where verbal and many physical actions can be undone easily.(Powerspray was a jerk) In games like Yugioh, things happen much quicker, and the state of game is constantly changing.

 

[iisnumber12]

I agree that's where you stand, but I'd like to show you the other side of this. This game is part luck, and part skill. I agree that physical misplays like putting down the wrong card should be allowed to be taken back, but intentional plays shouldn't be allowed to be taken back. The skill part of the game is how to play what you have. If you have to redo something, you should have seen it the first time. This is the skill part that determines good from great.

 

[Rikko145]

A chess game is no fun if you can undo your last move.

 

[Juliacoolo]

A chess game is no fun if you can undo your last move.

Absolutely. What I mean is that if someone attaches an energy, it doesn't really matter if they chose to put the energy on someone else as long as they haven't done anything else like attacked already. Kind of like a one-time "edit-undo".

 

[iisnumber12]

But if they were a good enoguh player, they would have done it right the first time.

 

[Rikko145]

Motion made, seconded, considered, and passed.

 

[Juliacoolo]

But if they were a good enoguh player, they would have done it right the first time.

I don't think this is necessarily true. I've been playing since I was a Junior and I still occasionally call out the wrong move or attach an energy incorrectly on occasion. I totally agree that an opponent /should/ be able to tell you not to take something back, but more often than not, i think it's more courteous to allow it.

 

[Cinema]

It's completely unfair of judges to ask you whether or not your opponent can take something back. Either you say yes and are potentially in a worse situation or say no and look like a jerk. There should be a rule set in stone about taking moves back, and the judges should enforce it rather than making the player look like the bad guy for wanting to win.

 

[PMJ]

> implying you're a jerk by playing to win

Pokemon is a game, and the object of the game is to win. If my opponent makes a mistake, that's on him, not me. I didn't make him mess up. He might have sour grapes afterward, but again, that's his decision.