ORAS Team Magma / Team Aqua Discussion Thread

[Chespin777]

Honestly since It is a remake in 6th gen I wouldn't be surprised if they beefed up the regional pokedex. Besides is anyone going to argue that it is bad they are adding more diversity?

I'm fine with adding, the evolutions of some 3rd gen pokemon, from the 4th gen. That's an upgrade for the Hoenn regional dex, and at the same time a diversity, and an improvement for some trainer rosters.

 

[Mitja]

I forgot to mention this month's Corocoro also confirmed that the Hoenn dex will be updated.
Hell, its been confirmed that Phoebe is gonna be using a Dusknoir as opposed to Dusclops. (and hopefully Glacia will get something that isn't Snorunt or Spheal).
edit: and in any case, they didn't show the leaders entire roster. Their main being the same is expectable, but just because they're the same it doesn't mean that we can just jump to conclusions that everything about their teams will be 100% exact.
And we haven't even seen any Team Aqua/Magma battle screens. You're making an assumption based on a few Pokemon used by Gym Leaders.

I mean, the way that ORAS are looking to be copy/paste remakes then I wouldn't be surprised if Team Aqua/Magma stayed exactly the same... Hopefully they aren't though.

I'm not making assumptions, but I rather find the statements that people make here are biased to exaggeration. What they meant about the Hoenn Pokedex being upgraded, is that the 3rd gen Pokemons, that have 4th gen evolutions, can be accessed in an early point of the remakes, rather than being accessible, in after post game content. Back in Ruby&Sapphire Pheobe had 2 Dusclops, and I see no problem giving her 1 Dusknoir, in her roster, kind of an update. So, the Hoenn Pokedex will have 4th gen evolutions for some 3rd gen Pokemon in the updated Hoenn regional Dex, we'll see Pokemons such as Gallade, Roserade, Probopass, Frosslass, Rhyperior, Magnezone. Afterall the Aforementioned Pokemons, and their pre-evolutions are in the Hoenn regional dex, people have some logic, it's a "REMAKE!", they won't include modern generation pokemon or update the roster in the early point of the game, unless the 3rd gen Pokemon that are local to Hoenn, have a modern evolution.

I doubt they would bother mentioning that the dex is getting an update if it was just about evolutions. In HGSS they only put in 5 evolutions and didn't lose a word about that ever, we only found out when people were playing and the dex numbers didn't add up.

I will be really surprised if the Hoenndex doesn't go up to at least 250 if not 300.

 

[Chespin777]

I'm not making assumptions, but I rather find the statements that people make here are biased to exaggeration. What they meant about the Hoenn Pokedex being upgraded, is that the 3rd gen Pokemons, that have 4th gen evolutions, can be accessed in an early point of the remakes, rather than being accessible, in after post game content. Back in Ruby&Sapphire Pheobe had 2 Dusclops, and I see no problem giving her 1 Dusknoir, in her roster, kind of an update. So, the Hoenn Pokedex will have 4th gen evolutions for some 3rd gen Pokemon in the updated Hoenn regional Dex, we'll see Pokemons such as Gallade, Roserade, Probopass, Frosslass, Rhyperior, Magnezone. Afterall the Aforementioned Pokemons, and their pre-evolutions are in the Hoenn regional dex, people have some logic, it's a "REMAKE!", they won't include modern generation pokemon or update the roster in the early point of the game, unless the 3rd gen Pokemon that are local to Hoenn, have a modern evolution.

I doubt they would bother mentioning that the dex is getting an update if it was just about evolutions. In HGSS they only put in 5 evolutions and didn't lose a word about that ever, we only found out when people were playing and the dex numbers didn't add up.

I will be really surprised if the Hoenndex doesn't go up to at least 250 if not 300.

Finally! Someone who does understand, what I'm trying to convey for the people! Thank you! It makes sense they're providing the 3rd gen Pokemons, their 4th gen evolutions available in an early point in the game, rather than being obtainable in post game. They're making it simple for the players! Bottomline of this discussion, just like how LG/FR, HG/SS were fully-fledged remakes, OR/AS will be the same. I won't suspect they'll change Magma&Aqua rosters they'll remain the same, as their predecessor. I think we have enough evidence that confirms the fact that I just mentioned.

 

[woohoo962]

Well, some Pokemon for Aqua that could be used:
-Gyarados (I'm thinking for Matt... his first battle would just be able to have one)
-Malamar (I know it's not water, but it is a squid... plus it gives them some type diversity)
-Eelektross (like Malamar, its not Water but it is based on an aquatic creature and gives them type diversity)
-Jellicent (Shelly could use one of these... hell, any of the ones I've put could fit her)

I think out of all of these, Malamar is the least likely to be in the game, as we've just had it in X/Y, whereas the Tynamo and Frillish lines were unavailable in X/Y without transporting them from B/W.

A few for Magma:
-Slugma/Magcargo (I'm surprised they didn't use these in the originals)
-Rhyhorn line (I've always thought Magma was more of a ground type thing as opposed to fire... making more land etc., but was portrayed as Magma because it made more of an opposites thing to Water... hell, Groudon, the Pokemon they want to use to achieve their wishes is a Ground type, not a Fire type)
-Flygon (see above)

It's a 3rd gen remake that utilises Pokemons from it's own regional Dex. Could you explain to me how the heck are they gonna include modern Pokemons as a roster to be used in a remake? This will mess up the regional Dex system, and it won't feel as a remake. I forgot to mention that this month's Corocoro scan showcased the gym leaders, and their powerhouse Pokemons. Gym leader Wattson is still using Magneton from the original Ruby&Sapphire, in Emerald they included Manectric as his powerhouse Pokemon. So, this is a confirmation that their rosters will be the same as the originals.

Yeah, and the scan showed Shiftry when Sidney's ace was Absol.
So this would be a bit of confirmation that different rosters are on the way.

---

Honestly since It is a remake in 6th gen I wouldn't be surprised if they beefed up the regional pokedex. Besides is anyone going to argue that it is bad they are adding more diversity?

I'm fine with adding, the evolutions of some 3rd gen pokemon, from the 4th gen. That's an upgrade for the Hoenn regional dex, and at the same time a diversity, and an improvement for some trainer rosters.

Really, we need more than that. Dragon,Ice,Ghost and Fairy are having problems, so we need to add more than Magnezone,Froslass,Gliscor. Hoenn could use more pokemon.

 

[Leaf_Ranger]

The proof that the evil teams are worse and now more unoriginal than before? Here:

From PokéBeach's page -

Maxie: Maxie is the leader of Team Magma, the team seeking a world ideal for humanity. He pays attention to even the smallest of details, and is quite sensitive in some regards. He has a habit of describing situations in numerical terms. He possesses a cool-headed outlook, thinking that some sacrifices cannot be avoided if he is to achieve his goals.

Team Magma is an organization that plots to increase the landmass on the planet, effectively adding to the area upon which humanity can labor to achieve even greater evolution and development. Believing that humanity's development will lead to greater happiness for all the world, the members of Team Magma think that laboring for the equal coexistence of humanity and Pokémon is a foolish idea that serves only to hold back humanity’s progress.

Archie: Archie is the leader of Team Aqua, a man with an unwavering heart who seeks to build an ideal home for Pokémon. His big-hearted and stirring personality has won him deep loyalty from his subordinates. But he is also a dangerous figure, not caring what happens to himself or his team as long as he can achieve his goals.

Team Aqua is an organization that plots to increase the size of the oceans in an effort to bring back the rich habitats lost to Pokémon due to humanity’s greed. The ocean is the font of all life, and by restoring it, the members of Team Aqua think that they can recreate an ideal home for Pokémon.

Instead of having both teams wanting more space for a kind of Pokémon (terrestrial or aquatic), now we have a Black and White story all over again. If there wasn't B/W, I would love this division, but as it is it's just some kind of "copy & paste"

Not only that, Team Aqua is now a bunch of fools and low class guys, seeing from the guy in the far left who's fallen and a guy next to Shelly, who's in love with her. RIDICULOUS! Sure, Magma are the obedient guys and Aqua just some kind of anarchists, but looking at Aqua, they just seem a bunch of fools, whose Adms. don't look better and are headed by a guy that turned into a lunatic after catching too much sun in his head!

The picture with the evil teams:
http://pokebeach.com/news/0914/team-magma-aqua.png

 

[Pangoro#1999]

Look at the aqua grunt on the left.

 

[Their Goominess]

ok so I kinda have a theory/speculation on how Aqua/Magma use Primal Kyogre/Groudon

- plot goes up until Aqua/Magma are at Mt. Chimney like the originals
- Archie/Maxie mention that they want to utilise Kyogre/Groudons secret power
- When met in the Aqua/Magma Hideouts they go into more detail and say that they plan to utilise Primal Reversion on K/G to get the full extent on their power
- when it gets to the summoning of K/G at the Aqua/Magma base Archie/Maxie use Primal Reversion on K/G and then they fly off to the Cave Of Origin
- player catches K/G and saves the world blah blah blah
- When Archie/Maxie do their 'I've made a bad mistake I feel ashamed' thing they give the player the means to utilise Primal Reversion on K/G

of course I'd love to see Primal Groudon in action at Mt. Chimney... but from what we've seen I really doubt thats gonna happen.

 

[Seven is a Color]

I've really glad that the leaders and admins actually have their own dialogue this time, instead of Archie/Maxie, Matt/Tabitha, and Shelly/Courtney seem like they're from parallel universes.

 

[Mitja]

ok so I kinda have a theory/speculation on how Aqua/Magma use Primal Kyogre/Groudon

- plot goes up until Aqua/Magma are at Mt. Chimney like the originals
- Archie/Maxie mention that they want to utilise Kyogre/Groudons secret power
- When met in the Aqua/Magma Hideouts they go into more detail and say that they plan to utilise Primal Reversion on K/G to get the full extent on their power
- when it gets to the summoning of K/G at the Aqua/Magma base Archie/Maxie use Primal Reversion on K/G and then they fly off to the Cave Of Origin
- player catches K/G and saves the world blah blah blah
- When Archie/Maxie do their 'I've made a bad mistake I feel ashamed' thing they give the player the means to utilise Primal Reversion on K/G

of course I'd love to see Primal Groudon in action at Mt. Chimney... but from what we've seen I really doubt thats gonna happen.

I thought there would be no reason to change the plot, just the names of the orbs, where they'd still simply get the wrong orb and you the correct one....

but thinking about it now...why would Archie/Maxie steal the wrong color orb? XDDD
So yeah I see where you're going.

Wait no...

Maxie and Archie don't activate the primal reversions! we see them emerge from seafloor cavern (which is when the weather problem starts) and they're not primal.
They turn primal in Origin cave.

Argh, I don't know how they're doing this lol


off-topic: I just noticed it's called the origin cave...will they rename it to some kind of opposite for OR?

 

[Leaf_Ranger]

Am I the only one that looks at this and thinks of the actual leader of N. Korea?

PS: I can totally see this guy (Tabitha?...I now have a hard time associating the names with these new ridiculous outfits and looks) throwing Maxie into a lava pit and becoming the new Magma leader! O.O

 

[Their Goominess]

Am I the only one that looks at this and thinks of the actual leader of N. Korea?

PS: I can totally see this guy (Tabitha?...I now have a hard time associating the names with these new ridiculous outfits and looks) throwing Maxie into a lava pit and becoming the new Magma leader! O.O

on his page on the ORAS site it also mentions he has his sights set on becoming the Magma Leader.
I'm really looking forward to seeing all the admins in game.

 

[MtheW]

I honestly really dislike the new looks for Magma and Aqua, but that's probably just because nostalgia. I'm looking forward to seeing how they deal with version differences if they aren't going to have Aqua/Magma be the opposites in opposite versions. Maybe they'll just make one of them more successful depending on the version. Looking forward to this.

 

[Leaf_Ranger]

I honestly really dislike the new looks for Magma and Aqua, but that's probably just because nostalgia. I'm looking forward to seeing how they deal with version differences if they aren't going to have Aqua/Magma be the opposites in opposite versions. Maybe they'll just make one of them more successful depending on the version. Looking forward to this.

Right now, I'm not that sure if they'll be opposites in opposite versions. From the screenshot bellow and at least, there's some novelty and taking into account that Magma/Aqua now follow (how unoriginal!) the B/W adversity a.k.a. Humans/Pokémon, I'm expecting to see if they remain copies of each other or if have differences.

First of all and most of the times I forget to mention this, I really like the new Aqua grunts' outfits. The originals were rather simple and dull, while I find these new ones very cool, namely the light blue and black headscarf, without being too much for what they were.
As for the leaders and Adms. new looks, I hate them and in my case it isn't nostalgia. I wouldn't mind to see a few changes to their original ones, but not something like this. As someone who wants to see a more mature anime and games, if they don't go foward, at least don't go back, changing what were acceptable outfits into super-hero costumes and characters that now seem full of clichés.
I've seen some people saying that Maxie's and Archie's outfits were also dull in the originals. I can agree to a certain extent but back then they mixed the simplicity of Giovanni with their teams' colors. Maxie was wearing an overcoat that could also look like a lab coat and gave it a serious tone, while Archie was wearing a bussiness suit but has that necklace and belt detail and headscarf that made it resemble a pirate without going to extremes. Now, Maxie is wearing ugly boots with a suit that with his overcoat looks more like kneesocks, has that "I was stabbed and didn't feel a thing" look on his face and Archie seems like a mad man doing some cosplay, full of bling-bling and wearing a net skirt!! Judging by Archie's colour and skirt, I would say he's from Scotland and is actually wearing a net kilt.

 

[Mitja]

I'm looking forward to seeing how they deal with version differences if they aren't going to have Aqua/Magma be the opposites in opposite versions. Maybe they'll just make one of them more successful depending on the version. Looking forward to this.

It looks very much like they'll be close to the original RS, in that they have identical objectives and places to show up, just being swapped.

Spoiler: whole Aqua/Magma arc in RS & E

the following is done by the versions villains, at some points the other show up to oppose them.
-grunt in petalburg woods
-2 grunts in whismur-tunnel
-museum takeover
-getting the meteor in meteorfalls
-Mt chimney, meteor used to control volcano
-weather institute takeover
-mt pyre, boss steals wrong orb
-submarine is stolen
-lilycove seaside HQ
-seafloor cavern, waking the mascot
-extreme weather over sootopolis
-confront mascot in origin cave

emerald has all of these, but spread out to appropriate teams, while adding additional fitting ones to the list (in particular for Magma)
-grunt in petalburg woods
-2 grunts in whismur-tunnel
-museum takeover
-getting the meteor in meteorfalls
-Mt chimney, meteor used to control volcano
-weather institute takeover
-mt pyre, both bosses steal an orb
-submarine is stolen
-lilycove seaside HQ
-space institue takeover ADDED
-mt.chimney HQ, waking the mascot ADDED
-seafloor cavern, waking the mascot
-extreme weather over sootopolis
-find rayquaza to stop the showdown

Which results in the silly combination like:
-In Ruby, just like Aqua in Sapphire, Magma has their HQ in the seaside of Lilycove and steals a submarine to wake Groudon in seafloor cavern...
-In Sapphire, just like Magma in Ruby, Aqua steals the meteorite in Meteorfalls and tries to use to to expand the sea by....calming the volcano...

when clearly the first is Aquas business and the second is Magmas business.
So it's rather disappointing that Magma/Groudon don't get their "correct" place in Mt.Chimneys interior.
Unless they really intend to make Delta Emerald, I don't know what they were thinking by doing this in such an uninspired manner.

Although at least it seems like their dialogues will be a bit more fleshed out and might feel more different.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

I really hope Magma and Aqua expand their rosters in this game. Even without a dex expansion, there's plenty of Pokemon for them to use that they don't need to be restricted to just Zubat line, Poochyena line, and Numel/Carvanha line. There's plenty of Water types for Aqua, and Magma can just use a combination of Fire, Rock, and Ground types to flesh out their rosters. I'm thinking they could use the following:

Magma: Vulpix line, Slugma line, Sandshrew line, Rhyhorn line, Torkoal, Baltoy line, Geodude line
Aqua: Gyarados, Staryu line, Horsea line, Wailmer line, Corphish line, Psyduck line, Tentacool line

The admins especially could use unique teams now that they have actual personalities. Would be underwhelming if the storyline built those battles up only for them to continue spamming Zubat, Poochyena and Numel/Carvanha. I'm thinking the following for admins:

Courtney: Golbat, Sandslash, Ninetales
Tabitha: Mightyena, Magcargo, Rhydon
Matt: Mightyena, Tentacruel, Gyarados
Shelley: Golbat, Golduck, Starmie

 

[Leaf_Ranger]

In the name of the older Team Aqua, only now have I noticed that Archie's left sleeve is teared. I'm guessing Aqua's treasure is a box full of Rage Candy bars! One more reason to say the new designs are stupid.

 

[Their Goominess]

I really hope Magma and Aqua expand their rosters in this game. Even without a dex expansion, there's plenty of Pokemon for them to use that they don't need to be restricted to just Zubat line, Poochyena line, and Numel/Carvanha line. There's plenty of Water types for Aqua, and Magma can just use a combination of Fire, Rock, and Ground types to flesh out their rosters. I'm thinking they could use the following:

Magma: Vulpix line, Slugma line, Sandshrew line, Rhyhorn line, Torkoal, Baltoy line, Geodude line
Aqua: Gyarados, Staryu line, Horsea line, Wailmer line, Corphish line, Psyduck line, Tentacool line

The admins especially could use unique teams now that they have actual personalities. Would be underwhelming if the storyline built those battles up only for them to continue spamming Zubat, Poochyena and Numel/Carvanha. I'm thinking the following for admins:

Courtney: Golbat, Sandslash, Ninetales
Tabitha: Mightyena, Magcargo, Rhydon
Matt: Mightyena, Tentacruel, Gyarados
Shelley: Golbat, Golduck, Starmie

What would be really interesting for Magma is if they used Drought Vulpix/Ninetales as psuedo Groudons (ie making it sunny).

(but then Aqua wouldn't get a Drizzle counterpart which sucks but oh well)

 

[Bolt the Cat]

I really hope Magma and Aqua expand their rosters in this game. Even without a dex expansion, there's plenty of Pokemon for them to use that they don't need to be restricted to just Zubat line, Poochyena line, and Numel/Carvanha line. There's plenty of Water types for Aqua, and Magma can just use a combination of Fire, Rock, and Ground types to flesh out their rosters. I'm thinking they could use the following:

Magma: Vulpix line, Slugma line, Sandshrew line, Rhyhorn line, Torkoal, Baltoy line, Geodude line
Aqua: Gyarados, Staryu line, Horsea line, Wailmer line, Corphish line, Psyduck line, Tentacool line

The admins especially could use unique teams now that they have actual personalities. Would be underwhelming if the storyline built those battles up only for them to continue spamming Zubat, Poochyena and Numel/Carvanha. I'm thinking the following for admins:

Courtney: Golbat, Sandslash, Ninetales
Tabitha: Mightyena, Magcargo, Rhydon
Matt: Mightyena, Tentacruel, Gyarados
Shelley: Golbat, Golduck, Starmie

What would be really interesting for Magma is if they used Drought Vulpix/Ninetales as psuedo Groudons (ie making it sunny).

(but then Aqua wouldn't get a Drizzle counterpart which sucks but oh well)

I don't think the AI uses HAs that often, so I wouldn't count on anything like this.

 

[Their Goominess]

What would be really interesting for Magma is if they used Drought Vulpix/Ninetales as psuedo Groudons (ie making it sunny).

(but then Aqua wouldn't get a Drizzle counterpart which sucks but oh well)

I don't think the AI uses HAs that often, so I wouldn't count on anything like this.

Yeah, I imagined as much. Its annoying, cos its a great ability for the team's theme and its on a Pokemon that can fit on to the team well.

 

[Leaf_Ranger]

I don't think the AI uses HAs that often, so I wouldn't count on anything like this.

Yeah, I imagined as much. Its annoying, cos its a great ability for the team's theme and its on a Pokemon that can fit on to the team well.

While GF doesn't usually make games harder than normal per se, the difficulty option in B2/W2 was a nice precedent and I would like to see it including not only higher levels but HA, namely those two!