Team PokéBeach

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From play testing on the suspect ladder, I see that Swords Dance Infernape with Thunderpunch can dominate Manaphy pretty well. Using Tyranitar to take cares of things like Latias and Cresselia, SD Ape will eventually rise in usage once people find out how effective it can be.

Tangrowth was never a standard physical wall. In UU sure, it can wall a couple of things, but the metagame is so special based that Tangrowth would almost always be useless. Aerodactyl can't sweep anything since it has a lack luster move pool. Moltres was used most of the time over Articuno, so I can't really comment on it.
 
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I never understood the whole logic behind Thunderpunch. Thunderpunch is WEAKER than Close Combat even when Super Effective unless CC is simultaneously ineffective against the opponent. So logically, SD CC would be more effective than SD Thunderpunch against Manaphy, which keeps slot 4 open for a better move like Stone Edge (better coverage) or Mach Punch (priority).

But yeah, I agree with the second para. None of what you mentioned there were standards in the first place AEX, so I'm not sure what your point is here.
 
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There are a couple of Pokemon where Thunder Punch would be superior over Stone Edge (Gyarados, Slowbro), but I do agree that in general there are better choices. Having said that though, Stone Edge is a horrible move to rely upon due to its low accuracy... :X

I think AEX is refering to the beginnings of DP, where things like Tangrowth, Regice and Weezing were considered good. Keep in mind that this was literally at the very start of the 4th gen (I like to call it the Rhyperior era because he was so ridiculously overhyped). So AEX is asking how the metagame was formed between the end of advance, and just before Plat.
 
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I'll go with Dusknoir. A set-up like this?
Dusknoir(252 Def., 252 Sp. Def., 6 Sp. Atk.)
Ability: ???
Item: Iron Ball
Moves: Fling
Trick Room
Shadow Ball
Pain Split
Also, does anyone like my new banner?
 
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Relaxed
100 HP,152 Def/252Sp.def/4Atk
Item:Leftovers
Will-O-Wisp
Ice Punch/T-Punch/Fire Punch/Shadow Punch
Pain Split
Protect
 
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Semi-edited. Also, I am giving you permission in order to make the following decision: sonicyellow or 42 chocolate for elimination? Sorry for the spam, I just want to get to the finale before Christmas break.
 
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PDC, that's nice and all, but put a bit more effort in would you? At least tell him WHY he should use a moveset like that...

I'm gonna have to start taking people out of this group if they don't start making an effort like they're supposed to. This place is for COMPETITIVE discussion, not mindless one-liner posts or non-descriptive idiocy like the above post. Seriously, we can all do better than THAT...
 
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Sorry... Seriously though, why should I use a moveset like that? To start off with, most of the set-ups that I've seen have the move fling in it. It just makes sence because Dusknoir is very slow anyway, so it would hardly affect it. I do see where you are coming from with the Pain Split move, so I'll fix that. Once again, sorry for short posts from before hand...
 
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Lets hope this post works....

Shadow Ball?Really?Dusknoir is a wiser Attack if you want Special move use a CM set.Besides what are you going to do when mence comes a DDs?Wii-O-Wisp or Fling?It Won't even do much at all after intimidate it would only do like up to 40 damenge.Then all you have in shadow balls while Outrage OHKOs you (Or close) beacause you don't have have any HP to back your Def.Or Ice punmch could do a large amount even with Yache berry.The HP with my set also helps.I mean,If it DDs at least my HP is there to somewhat protect me.Will-o-Wisp is one of the most common sets on Dusknoir.There for you can cut your opponents attack(SCIZOR ZOMG AFTER SD) and if you have the punchs(FIRE PUNCH ZOMG) you can do damenge.Shadow ball dosen't cover very much.Pain slpit is there to outstall by gaining and draining HP.Also for fling you only get to use it ONCE if you want to fling throw Burn orb or Poison orb if you don't want Will-O-Wisp.But fling still is a reasonble move.Just put maybe a better item in there like the orbs.I guess Iron balls is okay but you might want to change some other things on it to.For singles....right?
 
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The one thing you need to keep in mind about Trick Room is that it's a move designed for offensive play, but you only really have 4 turns to take advantage of it (the 5th being used by setting it up). It's a shame, because there aren't really many users of Trick Room that are both slow and offensive. Generally it's just not a very effective strategy to be using in standard play because it's so easy to stall out those 4 turns by clever play (although it is still rather good in 2v2).

Remember that Shadow Ball is a special attack, so it's not going to be causing much damage coming from Dusknoir. His strongest Ghost attack is Shadow Punch, but Shadow Sneak is a good option as well for picking off weakened opponents like Starmie and Gengar.

Fling does some solid damage, but it's only for a single turn. And by dedicating your hold item to being flung, you lose out on the beneficial effects of another item (like Leftovers, or maybe even a Life Orb). Generally it's just better to go with an item that is always going to be aiding you, as opposed to a one time use item like Iron Ball.

Dusknoir's best use is not Trick Room, but rather a defensive Ghost that wears the opponent down. Pain Split and Will-o-wisp are excellent at doing this, and help keep Dusknoir alive longer (Pain Split can recover health, Will-o-wisp will reduce the damage Dusknoir takes from physical attacks). Your other two moves should be offensive so Dusknoir can counter threats to your team. One of the best offensive options is Shadow Sneak, because picking off Gengar, Starmie, Latias, and more is just amazing. Your other option should be based on the rest of the team. For example, if you have a problem with Gyarados, try ThunderPunch. Or if you want to catch out Heatran coming in and absorbing a Will-o-wisp, try Earthquake. Stuff like that.
 
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I can't belive i was part right.I really can't.0.0 Well bacon stated pretty much everything and more.

bacon edit: Yes, you were, but please make posts such as this longer. As a general guideline, only post here if you have about 2 paragraphs or more.
 
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bacon said:
I think AEX is refering to the beginnings of DP, where things like Tangrowth, Regice and Weezing were considered good. Keep in mind that this was literally at the very start of the 4th gen (I like to call it the Rhyperior era because he was so ridiculously overhyped). So AEX is asking how the metagame was formed between the end of advance, and just before Plat.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Just when we entered the DP era, we started having Pokemon like Weavile in every team, and most use Tangrowth to counter they're Gyarados problems. Therefore, why did these Pokemon (and others for that matter) reduce in usage and effectiveness?
 
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Well,I feel heatran gave this.When they got used to using him he could completly murder Tangrowth and Regice.Fire Blast would OHKO tangrowth and 1-2 HKO Regice.And of course way to many weaknesses outside of stuff like trick room.Tangrowth would be better for TR Life Orb or a sunny day team.Regice just has so many weaknesses in OU.MAINLY Heatran metagross.With Low DEF it can be KO'd by Technition +1 Life Orb Scizor Bullet Punch.
 
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Tangrowth just fell because it was inferior to blissey, and celebi was a better counter to gyrados once it dropped ice fang (which it did).

A better question is what happened to heracross? If anything, with latias running around hera is one thing we would use more, a fantastic pursuite abuser. Regice we dropped because it was just too gimicky, huge stats, but didn't have the movepool to do anything with them. Again blissey did the trick. Weezing was the opposite, except borderline defenses. Other stuff just worked better.

Don't forget Dusknoir - that was so common and now rare as ariados.
 
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Fridge said:
Tangrowth just fell because it was inferior to blissey, and celebi was a better counter to gyrados once it dropped ice fang (which it did).

A better question is what happened to heracross? If anything, with latias running around hera is one thing we would use more, a fantastic pursuite abuser. Regice we dropped because it was just too gimicky, huge stats, but didn't have the movepool to do anything with them. Again blissey did the trick. Weezing was the opposite, except borderline defenses. Other stuff just worked better.

Don't forget Dusknoir - that was so common and now rare as ariados.
Click to expand...

I don't understand the drop in Heracross either. It could have been that it was (and unfortuantly is) beaten by Scizor as the better Bug type and has a better movepool.

That said I still like using Heracross purely because Latias, Celebi and assorted Pixies can't take a Megahorn and it is pretty useful because of it's part fighting type, giving it the STAB Close Combat.
 
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I find heracross serving a different purpose to scizor in a choice scarfer. With a half descent speed, heracross is beast. Scizor is beast because of powerhouse moves combined with bullet punch priority. Heracross still makes a better pursuiter though, IMO. It has the speed to do so.
 
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Sorry for not posting in a while, I just couldn't find this with the new set-up and all. I don't feel like making a new team anymore, so you know. Anyway, I wonder why Heracross is not used anymore. I mean, it has great potential against the lake fairies, Latias, and pokemon like it. Add it a Physical fighting move and Blissey would stand a chance! (Blissey Defense stat only gets up to 30) Sure, Scizor is capaple of a lot of things, but Heracross would be a much better choice overall.
 
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Scizor is only weak to fire attacks, where as Heracross is weak to Flying and Psychic type moves. Unless you are running the Scarf version or the reversal set, Latias outspeeds it and ohkos it if it knows Psychic. If you are scarfed and did not do Megahorn, you aren't going to ohko Latias. It is too bulky. Alakazam and Azelf do the same thing, although they aren't as bulky as Latias. Running the reversal set is risky because of the high usage of Scizor, and the less common Lucario. Scarf Jirachi also outspeeds it. I don't feel that Heracross defenses are enough to make it better than Scizor.
 
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Tangrowth- Originally hyped because it seemed like a Celebi with better defense, Sleep Powder, and neutrality to Pursuit. While Tangrowth does have a lot of unique selling points, a low speed and special defense proved to be its downfall. I don't think the metagame changed in a way that was harmful to Tangrowth, he was just never that good to begin with.

Regice- Yeah, this was really early in DP. As people feared strong special attacks coming from monsters like Porygon-Z, as well as Choice Specs, many looked towards the Pokemon with the highest Special Defenses as answers. And Regice is certainly one of these, with a titantic base 200 Special Defense. Later on, people realised how good Stealth Rock is, and that those defenses don't mean anything if you take 25% damage upon switching in. And let's not forget, the Ice type is absolutely terrible defensively.

Heracross- He's always been a little on the slow side, and for a Pokemon who's only purpose is to sweep, that's no good. Choice Scarf is an OK set for Heracross, but with so few resistances and susceptibility to all passive damage, he has difficulty using it effectively compared to other OU Pokemon. Swords Dance Heracross can be a nightmare for stall teams, but other than that it's largely outclassed by Lucario. Platinum's introduction of BP Scizor and Rotom-a sealed Heracross's fate as a "bottom of the barrel" OU Pokemon.
 
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Please may I join:

1) Competitive Battling Interests.
I really enjoy competitive battling and discussing it, within the last few months i have also grasped a better understanding of the current metagame meaning that I will be able to provide some very valid points.

2) Post Your Team.
This is my most successful team despite it being the first I made:


Roserade @ Focus Sash
EVs: 252 Spe / 6 SpD/ 252 SpA
Ability: Natural cure Modest nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Leaf storm
- Hidden power ice
- Sleep powder

Blissey @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpD
Ability: Natural Cure
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Ice beam
- Gravity/Toxic
- Softboiled

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpD
Ability: Keen eye
Impish nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Spikes
- Roar
- Brave Bird
- Roost

Cressilia @ Leftovers
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Ability: Levitate
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Moonlight
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Psychic

Rotom-W @ Leftovers / Choice Scarf
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Modest nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Thunder Bolt
- Shadow Ball
- Hydro Pump - Protect/ Hidden Power Grass/ Hidden Power Fire

Tyranitar @ Bibira Berry
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Ability: Sandstream
Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Fire Punch
- Stone Edge

3) Battling Rules.
I will follow all the rules and clauses.

4) Conduct.
I will follow all the rules.
 
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