teching Lanturn prime will not help you vs Reshiboar/Donphan

J

Jahikoi

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Please, stop saying that it will.

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86-lanturn.jpg

26-reshiram.jpg

20-emboar.jpg




Lanturn is a stage one, which needs 3 energies to attack.


Donphan is a stage one, which needs 1 energy to attack.
Reshiram is a basic, which needs 3 energies to attack.



If you get a Lanturn out, and KO a donphan with 3 energy, they will send up a donphan and kill you with one energy.

If you get a Lanturn out and KO a Reshiram, they will bring out another reshiram, inferno fandango to it, and OHKO lanturn. Or, they will bring out Emboar, who can also OHKO lanturn, but isn't always ohko'd by lanturn.



In addition, Lanturn needs a lightning energy. If you don't have lightning energy in your deck, it will be almost impossible to pull out a single lightning energy out of 2-3 that you tech in. If you use an electric deck already, then you may as well just use the upcoming Tornadus (edit: Not thunderus), who has resistance to fighting.


In addition: People keep saying Xatu counters Donchamp. I disagree. If people start teching for machamp, machamp can start teching to beat Xatu. Boldore from B/W can 2hko Xatu with only a fighting and a colorless, and then machamp prime can go ahead and fighting tag those energy so they aren't wasted; for example.

Gantle (Boldore) – Fighting – HP90
Stage 1 – Evolves from Dangoro
[F][C] Shoot Down: 20 damage. If the opponent’s Active Pokemon has a Resistance to the Fighting-type, this attack does an additional 60 damage.
[F][F][C][C] Power Gem: 80 damage.
Weakness: Grass (x2)
Ressitance: none
Retreat: 3



95-machamp.jpg



11-xatu.jpg





In the next set, we should get this Sigilyph:

Symbolar – Psychic – HP90
Basic Pokemon
[P] Reflect: During your opponent’s next turn, any damage done to this Pokemon by attacks is reduced by 40.
[P][C][C] Telekinesis: Choose 1 of your opponent’s Pokemon and do 50 damage to that Pokemon. This attack’s damage isn’t affected by Weakness or Resistance.
Weakness: Lightning (x2)
Resistance: Fighting (-20)
Retreat: 1

Which should help counter donphan, though; if you run psychic energy...





Note: Using Feraligatr won't let you counter Zekrom either. If you attach 4 energy to Feraligatr, they can simply let zekrom die, then outrage for 20, then bolt strike again for a KO. Or, just keep using outrage, because you can't kill it without letting it's damage build up. It needs 4 damage counters on it to be a KO, so if they play defender (Which I think Zekrom will - defender doesn't? reduce the damage done to himself) it will also be not good for you.)
 
Symbolar (sigilyph) can a) use his first attack which will reduce the damage of earthquake to zero. He will be forced to play machamp and then not KO you (due to resistance and -40 from reflect) and then you can either hit back for 100, or you can switch out.


Sigilyph can also snipe his bench for 50 per turn while he earthquakes, too.

Edit: keep in mind that I don't think there is a machop with more than 60 hp; so they will have to play machop, and then NOT earthquake (because you will ohko). Or, you can just pokemon catcher up the machop/machoke and then attack. If machamp prime is active, it cannot fighting tag; and you can kill it 50 per turn (not affected by weakness)
 
Yes, but you can hit machop for 50, and then when he evolves you hit machoke for 50, knocking it out. If he earthquakes, you can snipe machop.
 
It's not that Lanturn is the best Donphan/Reshiram counter, it's that Lanturn is much easier to tech.

A Lanturn with one Defender can survive a "revenge" KO from either Donphan or Reshiram. If you use Defenders in 4's (I do in some decks with Lanturn tech), the chances of your opponent being able to revenge KO and you using a Defender to prevent the revenge is fairly even, if not in more of your favor.

Energy shouldn't really be an issue if you, too, are assuming optimal setup. Rainbow Energy (voids Defender strategy by itself) + Potions (which are pretty useful, now) and Serperior will help Lanturn survive.

In my opinion, Lanturn's support + good qualities outweigh its negative qualities in its weakness and HP. Even so, I don't think it deserves a hate thread, but you're entitled to your opinion.
 
Aaron said:
It's not that Lanturn is the best Donphan/Reshiram counter, it's that Lanturn is much easier to tech.

A Lanturn with one Defender can survive a "revenge" KO from either Donphan or Reshiram. If you use Defenders in 4's (I do in some decks with Lanturn tech), the chances of your opponent being able to revenge KO and you using a Defender to prevent the revenge is fairly even, if not in more of your favor.

Energy shouldn't really be an issue if you, too, are assuming optimal setup. Rainbow Energy (voids Defender strategy by itself) + Potions (which are pretty useful, now) and Serperior will help Lanturn survive.

In my opinion, Lanturn's support + good qualities outweigh its negative qualities in its weakness and HP. Even so, I don't think it deserves a hate thread, but you're entitled to your opinion.
Click to expand...

You could always use rainbow + two defenders? :p
 
Electric Energy work just fine over Rainbow Energy, so only one Defender is necessary.

Point being, Lanturn Prime is not a useless tech against Donphan or Reshiram.
 
Zekrom has started running Defenders _anyway_ in a lot of its builds, so Lanturn could be viable. I'm a lot more interested in seeing the Sigilyph from the Battle Strength decks, and the other Basculin from BW, than the Sigilyph with Reflect, tbh. If you just want to negate an attack from Donphan, might as well use Umbreon and hit it for 10 (20 with a special dark) too, and it also stops Machamp. It's not a solid counter by any means, but it will give you time to set one up.
 
Well, Lanturn isn't going to singlehandedly win the Donphan/Reshiram matchup, but it helps. Thats what techs do; Uxie Lv X was never going to Zen Blade more than one Machamp to death, Glalie AR was never going to KO more than one Donphan, Mankey was never going to kill more than one Luxray Lv X, and so on.

However, the ability to OHKO both Reshiram and Donphan (as well as Blastoise, Yawnmega and Samurott, all potential top tier decks that don't handle swift KOs from Lanturn nearly as well) helps tremendously to keep an even footing in the prize war, even if the investment of at least two energy might be difficult to achieve. Even so, its one less Donphan/Reshiram to worry about, and it pulls its weight in other matchups as well due to the high damage output it easily reaches.

So, while it isn't perfect, it works well enough for what it is
 
vareki said:
Well, Lanturn isn't going to singlehandedly win the Donphan/Reshiram matchup, but it helps. Thats what techs do; Uxie Lv X was never going to Zen Blade more than one Machamp to death, Glalie AR was never going to KO more than one Donphan, Mankey was never going to kill more than one Luxray Lv X, and so on.

However, the ability to OHKO both Reshiram and Donphan (as well as Blastoise, Yawnmega and Samurott, all potential top tier decks that don't handle swift KOs from Lanturn nearly as well) helps tremendously to keep an even footing in the prize war, even if the investment of at least two energy might be difficult to achieve. Even so, its one less Donphan/Reshiram to worry about, and it pulls its weight in other matchups as well due to the high damage output it easily reaches.

So, while it isn't perfect, it works well enough for what it is
Click to expand...


The difference is; it's easier to get Uxie X out than machamp. It's easier to get Glalie AR out than Donphan (sort of? bad example), it's easier to get Mankey out than Luxray X

It's harder to get Lanturn out than Reshiram. It's harder to get lanturn out than donphan. It's easier to get lanturn out than blastoise and Samurott, though.
 
If you are scared of Donphan, tech in Kingdra. It is the best tech. Stop the Lanturn, people just can't understand that it sucks. Reason: In the future meta, every will be slower but will hit for big. Let us take some example, Donphan.../Machamp, Blastgartr, ReshiBoar, MagneBoar, Zekrom... All of them can hit for more than 120 really fast (ok or snipe for 100 every turn). Therefore, all Lanturn will be KO easily. It has 110 HP. It is crap. Don't comeback with the Defenders, because you are wasting 6 cards from your deck to exchange a Prize (1-1 Lanturn 2 Electric in the deck, a DCE, a Defender that you have few chance of getting it) (plus, it takes 2 turns to set it up). If you are playing MagneBoar, don't teck Lanturn, just OHKO it with Magnezone. If you are playing Zekrom, add some Plus Power.
 
No...I think that the benefits of Lanturn are still plentiful enough to give it deck space; yes, it will be KO'd in return, it does take a few deck slots to be viable AND there are (arguably) better techs for each matchup.

But, Lanturn Prime gives you a solid out in basically every matchup that matters next format. I've already mentioned all the other decks it helps out in, but it is also just a really solid hitter in its own right. In decks like Blastgatr/zel and Emboar based decks, it is really easy to have a lot of energy in play, meaning that Powerful spark is a really good option to kill stuff with.

Lanturn is a jack of all trades, master of none. But it helps in every matchup, unlike some techs...for example, wang zitong mentioned Kingdra? Sure, it takes down Donphan with two Spray Splashes and a Dragon steam, but against Reshiram it suddenly has no usefulness at all. And, its a Stage 2. Lanturn can't take a hit as well as Kingdra, but in both matchups and more, it takes down the opponents main attacker no questions asked.

But, above all, its your choice whether you think Lanturn is a good play or not. I think that what it brings to the table is worth it, so I'll be playing it next format. You might think something else is better, so by all means play it.
 
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