The best strategies/techs against ReshiPhlosion. Let's figure this out.
- Thread starter Rikko145
- Start date
Stage 1s: 3-3 Zoroark, Lost Remover (depends if the tyram plays rescue)
Run Samurott. 'Nuff said.
Nah, the best way is to get rid of their Cyndaquils before they can evolve them. Even so, you can't guarantee a win from there, so either run Zoroark or something else that can hold it's ground against Reshiram. Beware, however ; not much stands up to Reshiram. If only 100 was enough for TPCi, this wouldn't be a problem. But yeah, Zoroark works, Basculin EP works okay, but Zoroark works the best from testing.
Nah, the best way is to get rid of their Cyndaquils before they can evolve them. Even so, you can't guarantee a win from there, so either run Zoroark or something else that can hold it's ground against Reshiram. Beware, however ; not much stands up to Reshiram. If only 100 was enough for TPCi, this wouldn't be a problem. But yeah, Zoroark works, Basculin EP works okay, but Zoroark works the best from testing.
I dislike threads with overall counters, counters work depending on what deck you are playing. For instance, something like Samurott, which should counter Reshiram, isn't going to do you any favors in a deck like ZPS. For the record, Lanturn Prime works well as a counter in a lot of decks that can support it.
There is no such thing as a guaranteed win in this game. There's hardly anything like a 90-10 matchup either. And besides, if there was some secret tech that made a Reshiphlosion matchup like that, it would have been found out a LONG time ago.
Reuniclus decks run through it, heavy Zoroark lines are good but a 1-1 won't do anything for you.
The best way to get the matchup where you want it is to actually test it. Understand how it plays out. Then make minor changes to your list (a Donphan player might want to drop a couple draw supporters for a couple Judge, a Megazord player might want to bump a 2-2 Zoroark line to 3-2 or 3-3, a KYJ player might add in a 2-2 Zoroark line, etc). It depends on your list is already at though. You can't tech for every matchup - you have to decide which ones take priority. If your list isn't already top knotch, I'd suggest making general changes to it before attempting to fix bad matchups.
You haven't told us what deck you're playing - that would help a lot to know.
Reuniclus decks run through it, heavy Zoroark lines are good but a 1-1 won't do anything for you.
The best way to get the matchup where you want it is to actually test it. Understand how it plays out. Then make minor changes to your list (a Donphan player might want to drop a couple draw supporters for a couple Judge, a Megazord player might want to bump a 2-2 Zoroark line to 3-2 or 3-3, a KYJ player might add in a 2-2 Zoroark line, etc). It depends on your list is already at though. You can't tech for every matchup - you have to decide which ones take priority. If your list isn't already top knotch, I'd suggest making general changes to it before attempting to fix bad matchups.
You haven't told us what deck you're playing - that would help a lot to know.
Well it wasn't just specifically for me. I figure if we accumulate a thread with several listed in it, then people can mosey through it and see what works best for them. And yeah, I know there is no guaranteed matchup. I reckon if you shoot for the moon, you've gotta land among the stars.
If there was an easy 2-3 card tech that turned every Reshiphlosion matchup (or the matchup against any common deck, for that matter) nobody would play that deck because it would be so easy to counter...if you want to counter-deck Reshiphlosion, play Zoroark Samurott. Its actually not that terrible a deck due to Zoroark beating dragons and Samurott beating Donphan and trainer-lock.
The reason Reshiphlosion is so good is because it has no legit bad matchups. It can even go toe-to-toe with Samurott nonsense. 3-3- Zoroark does really do wonders against Reshi. Zoroark needs 4 DCE in it to work, though. D: The way to beat ReshiPhlosion is by outspeeding it, or outpowering it. It is VERY powerful, so it is hard to overpower it. Outspeeding it seems like the way to go... stage 1 is perfect for that IMO 
Gothitelle or Vileplume are great ways to overpower it if you want to try, of course.
Gothitelle or Vileplume are great ways to overpower it if you want to try, of course.No legit bad matchups? :O What about Magneboar? Gothitelle? I've never seen it go toe-to-toe with a good Samurott list either, but I honestly have next to no experience with Samurott in this format - I tested with it a little pre-worlds.Zero said:The reason Reshiphlosion is so good is because it has no legit bad matchups. It can even go toe-to-toe with Samurott nonsense. 3-3- Zoroark does really do wonders against Reshi. Zoroark needs 4 DCE in it to work, though. D: The way to beat ReshiPhlosion is by outspeeding it, or outpowering it. It is VERY powerful, so it is hard to overpower it. Outspeeding it seems like the way to go... stage 1 is perfect for that IMO
I've tested Samurott a WHOLE lot, buliding it and rebuilding it (with Donphan of course) and it really just autowins against pretty much anything fire, unless it just can't get going. But 1-2 Samurotts will destroy Reshiphlosion. With a catcher or two you can completely destroy their already set up Typhlosions or just one-shot 2 Reshirams while they two-shot your Samurotts, if they can keep up.
@joe, The problem with Lanturn is that while you're OHKOing Reshiram, they OHKO you back. In other words, they've just lost a Basic that took most likely 1, maybe 2 turns to power up, and you've just lost a Stage 1 that had 3 energy on it that wasn't accelerated. Oh, and if it gets Catchered in that turn you couldn't use it because you were attaching energy, you basically did that for nothing.
I guess so, but the problem still remains that it can
a) be Catcher'd,
b) be OHKO'd,
c) takes 2 turns to power up, and
d) isn't really splashable (Lightning and DCE required...)
a) be Catcher'd,
b) be OHKO'd,
c) takes 2 turns to power up, and
d) isn't really splashable (Lightning and DCE required...)
I've been trying lanturn in reshiphlosion as a tech. Does a lot for the mirror, and against magneboar and reshiboar which are bad matchups for it. It's also nice that it hits yanmega and donphan for weakness (but reshiphlosion doesn't have a problem with either of those).
As for techs, samurott is excellent and as it runs on colourless, pretty splashable provided you already have rare candy. Another option is SEL, and you'd have to run either rainbow/fire and DCE, which shouldn't be too hard. With 1-2 twins and 4 pokecomm, getting it out should be quite easy. It can ko 2 typhlosion or 2 reshiram before it gets knocked out, and that should swing the game in your favour.
As for techs, samurott is excellent and as it runs on colourless, pretty splashable provided you already have rare candy. Another option is SEL, and you'd have to run either rainbow/fire and DCE, which shouldn't be too hard. With 1-2 twins and 4 pokecomm, getting it out should be quite easy. It can ko 2 typhlosion or 2 reshiram before it gets knocked out, and that should swing the game in your favour.
Scizorliscious said:
well everything can be catcherd up so thats not realy a argument, if you use samurott they can catcher up a oshawat or dewot or a 0 energy samurott. Also samurott can take like 3 turns to set up, and u say lanturn isnt splashable. DCE is in most decks and like 3 raimbo energy can take care of the lightning.
Vileplume can't be Catcher'd. And besides that, the main problem is Catcher+OHKO, not just Catcher alone.joe said:
I never said Samurott was any better (though in all honesty it probably is, for other reasons).joe said:
Those two statements are completely unrelated. First of all I never mentioned Samurott, and second of all, Lanturn is still not splashable because, despite:joe said:
a) DCE isn't in a whole lot of decks. MegaZone. Many TyRam lists. Almost all Mewbox lists. And in decks with Zoroark, the DCE does more attached to that than to Lanturn.joe said:
b) The decks that do run DCE don't exactly want to waste one on a Lanturn that will be one-shotted.
c) Rainbow Energy does damage to your own Pokemon, which is bad.
d) Lanturn isn't splashable in some decks simply because it takes up too much space and it's not useful enough to make it worth it. You switch some energy to Rainbow and add a 2-2 line of Lanturn and that sacrifices consistency already.
e) Even if Lanturn was easily put into some decks, it STILL wouldn't work because it just gets OHKO'd regardless.
^It helps to have a understanding of the cards and how games play out with the cards before trying to construct an argument against them. Theroymon is cool, but it's useless.
Does it really matter that Vileplume can't be catchered? Coming up with a totally random statement like that does nothing to help your argument or invalidate his. Catcher+OHKO is not a problem because at most you're going to lose a Chincou and an energy and in general Lanturn either comes out onto a field of bigger threats, or in the first 3-4 turns of the game as a direct counter to their first Typhlosion. If you're losing your Chincou to Catcher, that's not an issue with the card but an issue with your timing and playing skill.
You never did say Samurott was better. But no, it's not. It's a stage 2 so it has to go into a stage 2 deck.
DCE is in almost every competitive deck. Since we're talking about beating Reshiphlosion, we can remove Reshiphlosion. We can remove Gothitelle because it already has basically an auto-win against it. That leaves us with googlebox, Stage 1's, Zekrom and DD, Magneboar and Yanmega/Magnezone. All of these decks run DCE except Yanmega/Magnezone and some Magneboar, which already runs through Reshiram. Mewbox already has a great matchup against TyRam and because you can't use Catcher, Lanturn is useless there in the first place. It helps to focus your argument onto decks that can actually make use of this tech (Stage 1's, googlebox, DD) and not just onto random examples that aren't relevant to the point you're trying to make because the tech either doesn't work or isn't needed.
If Lanturn can OHKO Typhlosion, I think that was a great use of the DCE. Zoroark will be OHKO'd too, but you seem to be a fan of putting DCE's on Zoroarks. There is absolutely no pressure to attach to a Zoroark. Popping a DCE on Lanturn should take priority over Zoroark any day because killing a Typhlosion > killing a Reshiram.
If the damage from Rainbow Energy is actually losing you games, that's an issue with playing skill and not with the card. Zoroark and Yanmega are already incredibly frail and the 10 damage makes no difference. Donphan is the only thing it matters for, but after actually testing it you'll realize the one place it mattered significantly was against Reshiram, but that's the whole point of Lanturn in the first place.
Lanturn is easily splashable in any of the three decks that can make use of it. If you think a 2-2 line is needed, you missed the point of the card. A 1-1 line does the job fine. Dropping Basic Energy for Rainbow Energy does nothing to take up space when there's no basic energy search in the format.
I would not want to go into a tournament with the Stage 1 deck and not have a 1-1 Lanturn in it. Mostly because of Gothitelle and Vileplume, but it's great against Reshiram too.
Does it really matter that Vileplume can't be catchered? Coming up with a totally random statement like that does nothing to help your argument or invalidate his. Catcher+OHKO is not a problem because at most you're going to lose a Chincou and an energy and in general Lanturn either comes out onto a field of bigger threats, or in the first 3-4 turns of the game as a direct counter to their first Typhlosion. If you're losing your Chincou to Catcher, that's not an issue with the card but an issue with your timing and playing skill.
You never did say Samurott was better. But no, it's not. It's a stage 2 so it has to go into a stage 2 deck.
DCE is in almost every competitive deck. Since we're talking about beating Reshiphlosion, we can remove Reshiphlosion. We can remove Gothitelle because it already has basically an auto-win against it. That leaves us with googlebox, Stage 1's, Zekrom and DD, Magneboar and Yanmega/Magnezone. All of these decks run DCE except Yanmega/Magnezone and some Magneboar, which already runs through Reshiram. Mewbox already has a great matchup against TyRam and because you can't use Catcher, Lanturn is useless there in the first place. It helps to focus your argument onto decks that can actually make use of this tech (Stage 1's, googlebox, DD) and not just onto random examples that aren't relevant to the point you're trying to make because the tech either doesn't work or isn't needed.
If Lanturn can OHKO Typhlosion, I think that was a great use of the DCE. Zoroark will be OHKO'd too, but you seem to be a fan of putting DCE's on Zoroarks. There is absolutely no pressure to attach to a Zoroark. Popping a DCE on Lanturn should take priority over Zoroark any day because killing a Typhlosion > killing a Reshiram.
If the damage from Rainbow Energy is actually losing you games, that's an issue with playing skill and not with the card. Zoroark and Yanmega are already incredibly frail and the 10 damage makes no difference. Donphan is the only thing it matters for, but after actually testing it you'll realize the one place it mattered significantly was against Reshiram, but that's the whole point of Lanturn in the first place.
Lanturn is easily splashable in any of the three decks that can make use of it. If you think a 2-2 line is needed, you missed the point of the card. A 1-1 line does the job fine. Dropping Basic Energy for Rainbow Energy does nothing to take up space when there's no basic energy search in the format.
I would not want to go into a tournament with the Stage 1 deck and not have a 1-1 Lanturn in it. Mostly because of Gothitelle and Vileplume, but it's great against Reshiram too.