The Elder Scrolls Discussion
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Daenordus said:
Oh, well, there we disagree, I'm always an imperial female, and on the imperial side. And a former penitus oculatus, fired because she was too much of a loose cannon, now she is batmanning skyrim, striking fear in the hearts of criminals (except maven black-briar, because that bitch just can't die).
If you look at the dialogs, There is not one imperial who really agrees with the thalmor (at least as far as I can tell), and since the stormcloaks insurrection was a thalmor conspiracy, It's safe to say that if it wasn't for that stupidass ulfric and his racist stormcloaks, in the future the empire could have been ready to face the thalmor, maybe in the next game.
Daenordus said:
Well duh, I was a f****** rogue elite operative trying to run away from them! And even if you are not, you got caught with ulfric stormcloak, of course they will kill you, just look at that thief who tried to run away. And commander whatever-his-name isn't the sort of guy to seriously consider the "I was just walking around, I swear!" defense.
Ok first off, let's try and properly capitalize words guys.
Secondly, I am with ProfessorofLight on this subject Daenordus.
The Imperials made a mistake and in the current environment of the TES series everyone is a suspect. You have the Thalmor scum sticking their noses everywhere and Tulius knows he has to play nice for the time being. What's interesting is that Bethesda went this route with these factions and how it's gonna set up future lore for the series. Only time will tell who won the war...Tulius or Ulfric? My best guess [bias aside] is that Skyrim will remain part of Titus Mede's Empire. Which brings me to another series of events that have very large implications.....the Dark Brotherhood storyline. I don't know how in the world they plan to handle that--killing off an emperor. [Which depending on if you joined or destroyed the DB may or may not have happened].
Secondly, I am with ProfessorofLight on this subject Daenordus.
The Imperials made a mistake and in the current environment of the TES series everyone is a suspect. You have the Thalmor scum sticking their noses everywhere and Tulius knows he has to play nice for the time being. What's interesting is that Bethesda went this route with these factions and how it's gonna set up future lore for the series. Only time will tell who won the war...Tulius or Ulfric? My best guess [bias aside] is that Skyrim will remain part of Titus Mede's Empire. Which brings me to another series of events that have very large implications.....the Dark Brotherhood storyline. I don't know how in the world they plan to handle that--killing off an emperor. [Which depending on if you joined or destroyed the DB may or may not have happened].
Yeah, that's a good question, ysmir, how did they dealt with non-main storyline related canon in past games? I know the events of oblivion happened because martin's sacrifice is mentioned, but I don't know if oblivion's other quests continue in skyrim.
Maybe they will play safe and place the new games enough years in the future to make accounts of the civil war nebulous, and it's consequences hard to trace, so you won't have to worry with how much the empire was weakened (or not) by the stormcloak's insurrection.
What did you mean with capitalization?
Maybe they will play safe and place the new games enough years in the future to make accounts of the civil war nebulous, and it's consequences hard to trace, so you won't have to worry with how much the empire was weakened (or not) by the stormcloak's insurrection.
What did you mean with capitalization?
Whatever you guys may dream, I personally guarantee the Stormcloaks will have won the s civil war in Skyrim, as there are more Stormcloak fans than Imperial fans and Bethesda wants to please the players.professorlight said:
But, you do have some good points. I'm anti racist, but yet I joined with the Stormcloaks because I knew what the Emperor was doing was wrong.
The basis for your theory that the Stormcloaks will win is laughable at best and it does not constitute that they will win because they are more "popular". That silly reason aside, I am piqued in any real reasons why you think the Stormcloaks will win and if you do have other reasons I'd love evidence to back those claims up. Now I may be a fan of the Empire but the way I see it is the Civil War storyline can go either way so I am looking those reasons things can sway towards the Stormcloaks winning.
Ysmir said:
The basis for your argument is laughable. Why even argue? It's a matter of opinion which is better, but like I said everyone knows what's going on with the empire is wrong. But just because the Stormcloaks are fighting for what's right doesn't mean all their views are right. I am mainly nuetral, but I have a little bit of favor for the Stormcloaks. The empire tried to kill you at the beginning. If they had succeeded, the entire world would have been doomed. So, hm.
There is a race of elves called the Maormer who are sworn enemies of the Thalmor. Perhaps Empire can find an ally with them and destroy their common enemy.
Ysmir said:
Exactly, I'd set the odds in 50/50, you know, if it wasn't for the huge imperial army scattered throughout the rest of tamriel.
Daenordus said:
Why argue? because it's fun, silly. and, who knows, you might turn some of us into ulfric stormcloak fans (HA!).
If you are neutral, How would you be if you actually supported them? damn. you would assault solitude by yourself, probably, fusrohdahing your way in.
The empire tried to kill you > the empire is bad
Is the same argument as
Alduin saved you from execution > alduin is good
They are both false, fallacies, as we call them.
professorlight said:
Yet, I fail to understand why you root for the side with a failing economy, evil allies, and stamping out of free religion. Pease, if you don't mind, either add me on Skype and talk to me when I get home in about twenty minutes, or get on the chat room at 3pm eastern so we can continue this lovely discussion and not fill this page up.
Daenordus said:
I'm not in skype, nor in the chatroom, but why shouldn't we fill up this thread with discussion? that's why it's here, after all... And I'm not even the only person in the discussion, ysmir asked you why do you think the stomcloaks have a better chance to win (not based in a popularity contest), and he is not only a moderator, but he knows his stuff with TES, and this is his thread, so the OK to the discussion is not only implicit, but encouraged.
professorlight said:
...
Fine.
The Stormcloaks have a better cause. Think about how we rebelled against Britian. Without our Rebellion's Victory... who knows where we would be now?
The same is nearly for the Stormcloaks. We fought for freedom of religion, as are they.
Daenordus said:
And the forsworns? don't forget that the conquerors argument can also apply to the nordics and ulfric, they threw the fornsworns off the reach, and forbade their ancient religion, in the name of the empire, just as how now the empire tries to (lazily, in this case) forbid the cult to talos, under duress from the thalmor.
I think you only have a vague idea of how military and alliances work, Daenordus.
The only reason the Empire accepted the White-Gold Concordat is because Titus Mede knew that Cyrodiil could not continue on fighting without gambling the very state of the Empire. Basically, he gambled a gamble. If he continued there might have been a chance perhaps like the Redguards [Which only ended after years of fighting to a standstill and the signing of the Treaty of Stros M'kai) Cyrodiil could have repelled another Thalmor attack. However, Titus also knew he would be gambling everything if he continued that route.
He took the (at the time) easier route by signing the treaty and allowing himself and the Empire to be built back up over time and rest. It's pretty obvious if you've ever paid attention to in-game texts that at every front the Thalmor and Empire DO NOT trust each other and each one secretly tries to undermine or cripple the other. Now onto the subject of the banning of Talos worship it was a price. The elves knew that by banning Talos who to the human races and especially the Imperials and Nords is a symbol of man, after all he was the first man to achieve Apotheosis or god-hood. (Whether by actually Ascending or use of CHIM is up to debate). The elves play the long game anyway and knew they had to do everything in it's power to PREVENT the Empire from returning to the united glory days of the Septims. Titus is attempting a long game too but it's a lot easier to elves to play this game than humans for obvious reasons.
Was the banning of Talos bad? Yes. Was it necessary? That depends on how you view history. But what matters now is Ulfric wants to essentially split the Empire further and this is playing into the Thalmor's divide and conquer plans. Without the Empire, Skyrim loses a significant and vital military force. As well as Cyrodiil provides supplies (i.e. food) to Skyrim's colonies. Ulfric essentially has to A. Remove the Empire. B. Secure and consolidate his power. C. Ensure that all of Skyrim's holds are taken care of and start post-war rebuilding and converting Imperial settlements. D. Protect itself not only from a chance at a second Empire attack but an inevitable (cause it will happen) invasion by the Thalmor. I'll be very generous too and say Ulfric has 5 years to fully accomplish all this. It's possible, if you look at our real world history people have driven out invaders, rebuilt, and repelled further attacks before. But is it extremely hard to pull off and VERY likely to fail? Absolutely.
As for your comment on a failing economy---this is simply not true. If anything Skyrim is in a "selection" recession. Lumber, mines, and industries that are driven by war are doing exceedingly well. Trading however is down and so is farming. But it is not diminished entirely as there are plenty of successful and working farms in Skyrim and the Khajiit Caravans are making a killing trading because the war and dragons have scared away most foreign traders.
As for your question Haunted Water it's very unlikely. The Maormer Naval fleet was decimated by the Psijics or Summerset Naval fleet in the War of the Isle 3E 110. It is---at this point---considered that the Maormer were wiped out by this battle and do not exist anymore OR are in hiding on Pyandonea their homeland. Either way they haven't been seen in over 500 years. I would be paying more attention to the Psijic Order who not only made an appearance in the College of Winterhold storyline but are apparently working against the Thalmor. One has to remember that the Psijics are a group dedicated to knowledge and one of their many philosophies in maintaining balance in Nirn (Earth). Obviously (if they aren't already working for the Thalmor) they see the Thalmor Empire as enough of a threat they are taking measures to prevent them from gaining too much power. (Or in the case of the College story the Eye of Magnus).
The only reason the Empire accepted the White-Gold Concordat is because Titus Mede knew that Cyrodiil could not continue on fighting without gambling the very state of the Empire. Basically, he gambled a gamble. If he continued there might have been a chance perhaps like the Redguards [Which only ended after years of fighting to a standstill and the signing of the Treaty of Stros M'kai) Cyrodiil could have repelled another Thalmor attack. However, Titus also knew he would be gambling everything if he continued that route.
He took the (at the time) easier route by signing the treaty and allowing himself and the Empire to be built back up over time and rest. It's pretty obvious if you've ever paid attention to in-game texts that at every front the Thalmor and Empire DO NOT trust each other and each one secretly tries to undermine or cripple the other. Now onto the subject of the banning of Talos worship it was a price. The elves knew that by banning Talos who to the human races and especially the Imperials and Nords is a symbol of man, after all he was the first man to achieve Apotheosis or god-hood. (Whether by actually Ascending or use of CHIM is up to debate). The elves play the long game anyway and knew they had to do everything in it's power to PREVENT the Empire from returning to the united glory days of the Septims. Titus is attempting a long game too but it's a lot easier to elves to play this game than humans for obvious reasons.
Was the banning of Talos bad? Yes. Was it necessary? That depends on how you view history. But what matters now is Ulfric wants to essentially split the Empire further and this is playing into the Thalmor's divide and conquer plans. Without the Empire, Skyrim loses a significant and vital military force. As well as Cyrodiil provides supplies (i.e. food) to Skyrim's colonies. Ulfric essentially has to A. Remove the Empire. B. Secure and consolidate his power. C. Ensure that all of Skyrim's holds are taken care of and start post-war rebuilding and converting Imperial settlements. D. Protect itself not only from a chance at a second Empire attack but an inevitable (cause it will happen) invasion by the Thalmor. I'll be very generous too and say Ulfric has 5 years to fully accomplish all this. It's possible, if you look at our real world history people have driven out invaders, rebuilt, and repelled further attacks before. But is it extremely hard to pull off and VERY likely to fail? Absolutely.
As for your comment on a failing economy---this is simply not true. If anything Skyrim is in a "selection" recession. Lumber, mines, and industries that are driven by war are doing exceedingly well. Trading however is down and so is farming. But it is not diminished entirely as there are plenty of successful and working farms in Skyrim and the Khajiit Caravans are making a killing trading because the war and dragons have scared away most foreign traders.
Red Rain said:
As for your question Haunted Water it's very unlikely. The Maormer Naval fleet was decimated by the Psijics or Summerset Naval fleet in the War of the Isle 3E 110. It is---at this point---considered that the Maormer were wiped out by this battle and do not exist anymore OR are in hiding on Pyandonea their homeland. Either way they haven't been seen in over 500 years. I would be paying more attention to the Psijic Order who not only made an appearance in the College of Winterhold storyline but are apparently working against the Thalmor. One has to remember that the Psijics are a group dedicated to knowledge and one of their many philosophies in maintaining balance in Nirn (Earth). Obviously (if they aren't already working for the Thalmor) they see the Thalmor Empire as enough of a threat they are taking measures to prevent them from gaining too much power. (Or in the case of the College story the Eye of Magnus).
Ok Daenordus if you don't want to participate in healthy discussion then you are free to leave this topic if you are unwilling to participate and contribute. Simply you prefer to downplay what I say in favor of your ideas simply because you support one side instead of the other. Good day to you as well. If you have anything to say Profile message me and do not spam up this thread.