The New Zekeels?

[VashEXE]

Hey there guys,

I was wondering what direction you think Zekeels is going to go in after the rotation? I see alot of lists saying SAB and Raikou EX are going to be much more viable because it can snipe Altarias, etc.

What variation of Zekeels do you think will be the most viable after the rotation?

I personally have not had much luck with the Raikou build and I dont know if the Rayquaza techs are just hype for the new dragon types or if they will actually hold some competitive ground.

 

[blargh257]

Normal Zekrom+ Thundurus (for speed)+ Raikou EX+ Mewtwo EX. The deck has a lot of weapons which can be used in several different ways. I think Zekeels/Terrakion will become too inconsistent to be good.

 

[tanker]

The deck now focuses on more Mewtwo and Raikou, if the normal raquaza is released in Dragons Exhaulted then it is a very good tech in the deck. As blargh said terakkion isnt that good in it since people are moving away from Dark/Lightninig types.

 

[derkmrtnz]

i wonder if thundurus is going to see alot of play anymore once the new set comes out. i would think that the new emolga in dragons exhaulted is going to be the new ideal starter for zekeels since it can search out pokemon.

 

[VashEXE]

I'm not sure how I feel about Emolga over Thundurus. Getting out basics never seemed to be a problem for my deck, but getting out energies could be rough sometimes. Although, with dualball being rotated out maybe that will change...

With Rayquaza, was everybody planning on throwing in fire energies now or just using the 40dmg discard 2 cards attack? I guess I just havent seen the hoard of dragon decks yet to justify using Rayquaza.

 

[Serperior]

The emphasis on Raikou EX will definitely increase because of the new Bench support-sitters in Darkrai/Hydreigon and Garchomp/Altaria. I see them being two-ofs but nothing more.

I don't know about Emolga over Thundurus either. It's an Energy wasted (because you can't discard it for Retreat) while at least Thundurus can use Disaster Volt to get some Energy acceleration going. I'm testing both, but I'm more inclined towards Thundurus. (Plus he's got more HP.)

 

[VashEXE]

I always hated seeing my Raikous and SABs whenever I was playing. I don't think there was one time that I was really happy to see it.

I totally see why this is going to be good, but I hope I can get over whatever it is that makes me not want them in my deck haha.

 

[Brave Vesperia]

I love using Raikou and Skyarrow Bridge! In my build I find it easy to alternate between my two Raikou EX when needed. (basicly: Volt Bolt, double or triple Dynamotor, attach {L} if double, Volt Bolt, rinse and repeat)

I think ZekEels with Raikou and/or Max Potion will be better, though I rarely find myself using said Max Potions.

Which Rayquaza are you talking about? I think the regular one has potential to some extent. The EX is good, but it's not right for the format due to Dragon weakness and you need two types of energy to attack. Though I suppose you could use it with Eelektrik and Prism/Blend Energy.

 

[silver116]

I think we might see some new variations on the deck such as Rayquaza EX paired up with Raikou EX. The problem with using Rayquaza EX is that its easily KOed by garchomp. But like tanker said regular Rayquaza is going to be an awesome tech for the deck.

 

[dmaster]

I always hated seeing my Raikous and SABs whenever I was playing. I don't think there was one time that I was really happy to see it.

I totally see why this is going to be good, but I hope I can get over whatever it is that makes me not want them in my deck haha.

This deck might just be not for you in the upcoming Format. If you're not comfortable with it, you might just want to shy away from the deck as there's a lot of different options deckwise to go with, especially after the rotation.

I definitely know that the non-Terrakion builds ae very different in playstyles (and I do really like my Terrakion/Eel ), but I'm willing to give a more Raikou+Mewtwo build a chance.

It looks like we might not even get normal Rayquaza in the set, but we'll have to just wait and see. I can see builds with a teched Ray EX but I probably won't be playing it in a tournament.

dmaster out.

 

[Machamp The Champion]

The EX (Rayquaza) is good, but it's not right for the format due to Dragon weakness and you need two types of energy to attack. Though I suppose you could use it with Eelektrik and Prism/Blend Energy.

The problem with using Rayquaza EX is that its easily KOed by garchomp. But like tanker said regular Rayquaza is going to be an awesome tech for the deck.

Rayquaza EX isn't to good because he's weak to Garchomp

Will someone PLEASE tell me why Rayquaza EX's weakness is such a huge problem? Garchomp is in one deck. ONE DECK! Darkrai has got along just fine with Terrakion running around. And Terrakion's Techable into almost any deck. The only other playable dragon type (Other then regular Rayquaza, which will most likely not be in our next set) is Hydreigon. Which is a pretty inconsistent attacker.

Anyway. In my testing, the Fire/Prism/Blend Energy isn't really a problem. You do have to get the Alternate energy on 2 Rayquaza EX's. But you have Energy Search and Energy Retrieval to get them easily. Basically once you have those 2 Fire-providing energy on the field, and Lightning Energy in the discard or on your Rayquaza EXs, you're set.

As for which variant of Eels is good. As you can probably guess I really like Eelquaza (With other Eel-Based Attackers). I haven't been doing an enormous amount of testing. But the right list seems to be able to perform well. Eels without Rayquaza EX still seems like a really good deck. It still has all it's resources from last format.

As for where Eels is going to go? With the reputation Rayquaza EX is getting on this site, I assume Raikou and Mewtwo are going to be the preferred attackers for Eelektrik.

 

[Brave Vesperia]

Will someone PLEASE tell me why Rayquaza EX's weakness is such a huge problem? Garchomp is in one deck. ONE DECK! Darkrai has got along just fine with Terrakion running around. And Terrakion's Techable into almost any deck. The only other playable dragon type (Other then regular Rayquaza, which will most likely not be in our next set) is Hydreigon. Which is a pretty inconsistent attacker.

I know it's just one deck, but think about how largely played it will be.

 

[Blui]

I know it's just one deck, but think about how largely played it will be.

Actually, it's two decks, Darkai/Hydreigon & the aforementioned Garchomp/Altaria. Hydreigon has a attack for 150, Dragon typing and the deck uses the two energy needed for its attacks.

 

[Machamp The Champion]

I know it's just one deck, but think about how largely played it will be.

Actually, it's two decks, Darkai/Hydreigon & the aforementioned Garchomp/Altaria. Hydreigon has a attack for 150, Dragon typing and the deck uses the two energy needed for its attacks.

Yea Garchomp will be play quite a bit. It is pretty cheap and easy to play. But unlike HGSS-on, all those Tier 1.5 and 2 decks are allot more playable. So cheaper decks like Empoleon and Entei and Ninetales are playable and available. Eels, Darkrai and Garchomp Aren't going to be leagues above the rest like how last format was with it's top decks. So a good budget deck isn't the most attractive thing anymore. Again, yes, it will be played allot. But not enough that you'll face it more then half of your matches at tournaments, destroying your chances at even bubbling (I'm looking at you Darkrai .V.).

As for Hydreigon, it does 140, not that will ever matter. But anyway, you can't really send up enough Hydreigon's to take on Eels fast attackers. It's a stage 2 that needs 4 energy to attack, one being a special energy all while needing to discard 2 of them. You can still use any other Eels attacker to take out the Hydreigon, and since it takes so long to set up, they will be forced to send up a Darkrai (Well, something that's not Hydreigon I should say. Sigilyph, Shaymin EX, etc) eventually. And when they do, Rayquaza EX will take 3 of there energy and 2 of there prizes (If it's a Darkrai). After losing 3 energy it will be hard to counter attack with that bulky of a stage 2. They'll probably get one KO on a Rayquaza EX with Hydreigon, but after recovering from that, it might already be to late and the Eels player will have the appropriate attacker to deal with what the Hydreigon player is throwing at them.

 

[MDL]

Yea Garchomp will be play quite a bit. It is pretty cheap and easy to play. But unlike HGSS-on, all those Tier 1.5 and 2 decks are allot more playable. So cheaper decks like Empoleon and Entei and Ninetales are playable and available. Eels, Darkrai and Garchomp Aren't going to be leagues above the rest like how last format was with it's top decks. So a good budget deck isn't the most attractive thing anymore. Again, yes, it will be played allot. But not enough that you'll face it more then half of your matches at tournaments, destroying your chances at even bubbling (I'm looking at you Darkrai .V.).

As for Hydreigon, it does 140, not that will ever matter. But anyway, you can't really send up enough Hydreigon's to take on Eels fast attackers. It's a stage 2 that needs 4 energy to attack, one being a special energy all while needing to discard 2 of them. You can still use any other Eels attacker to take out the Hydreigon, and since it takes so long to set up, they will be forced to send up a Darkrai (Well, something that's not Hydreigon I should say. Sigilyph, Shaymin EX, etc) eventually. And when they do, Rayquaza EX will take 3 of there energy and 2 of there prizes (If it's a Darkrai). After losing 3 energy it will be hard to counter attack with that bulky of a stage 2. They'll probably get one KO on a Rayquaza EX with Hydreigon, but after recovering from that, it might already be to late and the Eels player will have the appropriate attacker to deal with what the Hydreigon player is throwing at them.

Well, you can easily OHKO Eels and Rayquaza needs atleast 2 to function probably. And in BW-On my guesses are that it won't be as easy to get 3 out. Also, I guess that by fast attackers you mean Thundurus or Mewtwo? If you start with a Tynamo you have no fast attacker anymore. And btw, if I OHKO Rayquaza with Hydreigon, I take 2 prizes. If you kill my Hydreigon, you only take 1. I can attack with Hydreigon atleast 2 times. That means You'll be behind 2 prizes, and before I do that I'll probably start attacking with Darkrai and OHKO'ing your Eels. This is just theory right now, but it isn't very hard to do it. And btw, the only thing that OHKOs Hydreigon in Zekrom/Eelektrik is Rayquaza, so to respond to my Hydreigon I guess you need to use Rayquaza-EX.

 

[Machamp The Champion]

Well, you can easily OHKO Eels and Rayquaza needs atleast 2 to function probably. And in BW-On my guesses are that it won't be as easy to get 3 out. Also, I guess that by fast attackers you mean Thundurus or Mewtwo? If you start with a Tynamo you have no fast attacker anymore. And btw, if I OHKO Rayquaza with Hydreigon, I take 2 prizes. If you kill my Hydreigon, you only take 1. I can attack with Hydreigon atleast 2 times. That means You'll be behind 2 prizes, and before I do that I'll probably start attacking with Darkrai and OHKO'ing your Eels. This is just theory right now, but it isn't very hard to do it. And btw, the only thing that OHKOs Hydreigon in Zekrom/Eelektrik is Rayquaza, so to respond to my Hydreigon I guess you need to use Rayquaza-EX.

By fast attackers I mean that you can get any 3 energy attacker out pretty easily with Eelektrik. And Rayquaza isn't the only thing in Eels that can OHKO Hydreigon. Zekrom EX will gain a little more play because of all the 140 and 150 HP stages 2s coming out. And again. I'd love to see someone pull 4 energy out of nowhere after a Darkrai gets KO by Rayquaza. And to have a Hydreigon get 2 attacks in a row, you'd need to either have 5+ energy on the field before attacking or have a Dark Patch in hand. Which is an un-searchable trainer that you only have 4 of, and you probably already used one to get a turn 2 Darkrai. Unless you use Sableye to get more which waists a turn. As you said this is just theory right now. I don't think it's a great match-up or a awful match-up. Something like 60-40 either side at best depending on the list. But Hydreigon isn't the end of the world for Rayquaza EX or any Dragon type EX.

 

[VashEXE]

Well, you can easily OHKO Eels and Rayquaza needs atleast 2 to function probably. And in BW-On my guesses are that it won't be as easy to get 3 out. Also, I guess that by fast attackers you mean Thundurus or Mewtwo? If you start with a Tynamo you have no fast attacker anymore. And btw, if I OHKO Rayquaza with Hydreigon, I take 2 prizes. If you kill my Hydreigon, you only take 1. I can attack with Hydreigon atleast 2 times. That means You'll be behind 2 prizes, and before I do that I'll probably start attacking with Darkrai and OHKO'ing your Eels. This is just theory right now, but it isn't very hard to do it. And btw, the only thing that OHKOs Hydreigon in Zekrom/Eelektrik is Rayquaza, so to respond to my Hydreigon I guess you need to use Rayquaza-EX.

The other thing to note is, with the 0 retreat Tynamos that alot of people use, the higher SAB count in BW-On, and the combination of Ultraball and the BW-on supporters that will be available, you will almost never have a Tynamo as your active at the end of your 1st turn. I don't think I have had one game where I didn't get out one of the "Fast Attackers" on turn 1, even if I started with just a Tynamo in my hand.

 

[MDL]

The other thing to note is, with the 0 retreat Tynamos that alot of people use, the higher SAB count in BW-On, and the combination of Ultraball and the BW-on supporters that will be available, you will almost never have a Tynamo as your active at the end of your 1st turn. I don't think I have had one game where I didn't get out one of the "Fast Attackers" on turn 1, even if I started with just a Tynamo in my hand.

If you run 3 or 4 SABs, I guess you won't, but really, almost nobody plays 30 HP Tynamo anymore because of Darkrai snipe and I think it will stay that way on BW-On.


MTC, I guess I forgot Zekrom EX. And I didn't mean that I would attack with Hydreigon 2 times in a row, that's very hard to do. I said that I would be able to use it's attack 2 times in 1 game at the minimum. If you run Rayquaza it's 60/40 for Darkrai IMO, but if you don't it's 50/50 (IMO).

 

[Emopanda133]

To be honest, I think the regular Rayquaza, (if we get it) will end up replacing Terrakion in Zekeels. I mean, it can Donk Garchomp, and it can help 2HKO alot of things, even if Eviolited. Drop him, Double Dynamotor, switch out, and boom, you can do 90 like nothing. It will help you KO that clutch Garchomp that you need gone to win the game.