The Official Garchomp Dragons Exalted Discussion Thread

How viable will Garchomp/Altaria be?

  • Tier 1

    Votes: 25 42.4%

  • Tier 1.5

    Votes: 29 49.2%

  • Terrible

    Votes: 5 8.5%
  • Total voters
    59
I don't like to use the term BDIF. If something seems to better than other things it just meens that there will be more people teching against it and it will even out.
It still seems to be one of the four best deck in the format, so I don't think it would be inappropriate to call it Tier 1 even though it doesn't seems to be the best.
It has a decent matchup against Hydreigon because it can OHKO Hydreigon so easely. The low 70 HP Altaria has isn't gonna make a big difference unless it was 100+ since Darkrai still needs three snipes on it.

The reasson why it became so popular is because of the over hyped Rayquaza EX that seemed to make a great impact on the format. People started to look for ways to counter it, and this deck seemed to be the best way to do it.
Gartaria will still see a lot of play even though it doesn't seems to be the best deck, because it's so easy to set up and if your opponent makes a few misplays you'll keep striking them for a high 1 energy damage output.

I don't see why people dislike Gartaria. It's a obvious choice and people will know what you are talking about. These fancy names will just cause more confusing.
 
Because of Gabite, call it Calltaria

I don't think the deck is the BDIF, but it is going to be Tier 1 or 1.5 and it is one of those decks that can't be locked. It doesn't really autolose to anything and it is very consistent.
 
Project_Fedora said:
The problem with Garchomp is that since a lot of people are going to be playing it they're going to realize that Garchomps worst matchup, is Garchomp, having that Dragon weakness means if you play the mirror whoever gets set up first will win, no matter the circumstances, I think the deck will be a lot better when they hype buys down and less people play it.
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So based on the fact that, according to you, its worst matchup is the mirror, that means in every matchup it has at least a 50% win chance. How is that a problem with it?

In reality, I think its weakness is that it can only really use one attacker effectively, and that attacker is a stage 2. The deck has no energy acceleration so nothing else really works with it. Because of this, an Eels deck that can successfully stream normal Rayquazas for Garchomp KOs, or really any basic that can trade prizes with Garchomp is a major problem because even with Gabite's search power it often runs out of steam, because you'll often be forced to evolve your Gabites in order to keep attacking. In other words, I feel its a much better deck on paper than in reality.
 
I've been calling the deck "Calltaria" ever since I've known what it does. Dragon Call + Altarias.

Garchomp Altaria seems very viable. The only deck that it really struggles against is Raikou Eels, other than that it has pretty solid match ups around the board. Most of the skill involved in Calltaria comes from the list building. It's one of those decks where in game play is very simple, so all of the skill comes in building the deck itself. I really enjoy Calltaria, it reminds me of some sort of DP - On deck. I think it will see a lot of play this season.
 
Vulpix Yolk said:
I've been calling the deck "Calltaria" ever since I've known what it does. Dragon Call + Altarias.

Garchomp Altaria seems very viable. The only deck that it really struggles against is Raikou Eels, other than that it has pretty solid match ups around the board. Most of the skill involved in Calltaria comes from the list building. It's one of those decks where in game play is very simple, so all of the skill comes in building the deck itself. I really enjoy Calltaria, it reminds me of some sort of DP - On deck. I think it will see a lot of play this season.
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First of all, I'm very new to the competitve Pokemon TCG scene! :) My girlfriend and I are currently testing Garchomp/Altaria versus Raikou/Eels. If anyone is interested in comparing results from a similar test (once we're done) feel free to PM me! We've only played a few games thus far but it seems Garchomp/Altaria does not auto-lose to Raikou/Eels. Raikou/Eels had one easy win as well as a very close game that it also won. Garchomp/Altaria had one easy win as well. No donks, all three games were fairly long. It has been fairly close to 50/50 thus far (keep in mind, only three games played). I won't post deck lists in this thread but so far I've only been able to stream Raikou for a few turns in one game (using SAB; this allowed me to win the game easily). In the other two games I wasn't able to stream Raikou and my girlfriend was Catcher killing Eelektriks.

I agree that there is a lot of skill involved in list building :p. However, Garchomp/Altaria seems to have a very tight list resulting in little room to play around with (at least compared to the multitude of Eels variants).
 
The matchup with Eels really isn't that bad. While they can snipe Altarias, you can Catcher their Eels, too. What I think is a bigger issue is Swablu's Weakness. T1 Outrage gets a donk on Swablu. T1 X-Ball gets a donk on Swablu. And T1 Rayquaza gets a donk on everything.
 
Mora said:
The matchup with Eels really isn't that bad. While they can snipe Altarias, you can Catcher their Eels, too. What I think is a bigger issue is Swablu's Weakness. T1 Outrage gets a donk on Swablu. T1 X-Ball gets a donk on Swablu. And T1 Rayquaza gets a donk on everything.
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I agree. It seems to be a match-up that is decided on who can cripple the opponent's set up first (although that statement is probably true of most match-ups :p). This is easily done by Catcher killing Altaria/Eelektrik, or sniping Altaria using Raikou-EX.

Swablu is an easy donk but hopefully you're able to set up with Emolga or Gible.

I don't think that Rayquaza will be ran in many Eels decks. 40 damage on T1 is nice for one Lightning Energy however to make Rayquaza more useful than a Pokemon that has decent potential to donk you need to use Shred, which means adding Fire Energy or Blend Energy, resulting in less space for Mewtwo-EX (if any space at all). I think that the deck becomes a lot more complicated and doesn't really gain anything by running Rayquaza. Not to mention that Shred isn't that great of an attack. Mewtwo-EX is a low cost attacker that can use Lightning Energy. Even Zekrom-EX would be a better fit than Rayquaza as it can OHKO Garchomp/Hydreigon, uses LLCC to do it, and can be accelerated with Eelektrik, meaning there is no need to complicate the Energy that you run.
 
Secret Pikachu said:
I agree. It seems to be a match-up that is decided on who can cripple the opponent's set up first (although that statement is probably true of most match-ups :p). This is easily done by Catcher killing Altaria/Eelektrik, or sniping Altaria using Raikou-EX.

Swablu is an easy donk but hopefully you're able to set up with Emolga or Gible.

I don't think that Rayquaza will be ran in many Eels decks. 40 damage on T1 is nice for one Lightning Energy however to make Rayquaza more useful than a Pokemon that has decent potential to donk you need to use Shred, which means adding Fire Energy or Blend Energy, resulting in less space for Mewtwo-EX (if any space at all). I think that the deck becomes a lot more complicated and doesn't really gain anything by running Rayquaza. Not to mention that Shred isn't that great of an attack. Mewtwo-EX is a low cost attacker that can use Lightning Energy. Even Zekrom-EX would be a better fit than Rayquaza as it can OHKO Garchomp/Hydreigon, uses LLCC to do it, and can be accelerated with Eelektrik, meaning there is no need to complicate the Energy that you run.
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Well the reason they'd want to run Raquaza is so they have something that can potentially Ohko Dragon pokemon, what they don't realize is that Mewtwo EX is already a pretty good answer to the deck itself.
 
Project_Fedora said:
Well the reason they'd want to run Raquaza is so they have something that can potentially Ohko Dragon pokemon, what they don't realize is that Mewtwo EX is already a pretty good answer to the deck itself.
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Zekrom-EX works well too. It will OHKO any of the popular dragons (Garchomp/Hydreigon/Altaria) and is easily loaded up with Energy via Eelektrik.
 
Testing shows that this deck isn't all it was cracked up to be. You have to set up Garchomps over and over after they are KO'd. This deck 2hkos as well, combined with Darkrai's healing powers make this deck have a very hard time. I think it will be T1.5-2.
 
Infinity said:
Testing shows that this deck isn't all it was cracked up to be. You have to set up Garchomps over and over after they are KO'd. This deck 2hkos as well, combined with Darkrai's healing powers make this deck have a very hard time. I think it will be T1.5-2.
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I agree with this. If you're opponent hit's a T2 Darkrai EX, gets more than one Hydregion out and KO's an Altaria, you're done. Max Potion kills Garchomp and not hitting for at least 100 a turn hurts bad. If Darkrai has an Eviolite, you're gonna end up 3HKOing them, and after the second hit, they'll Max Potion, and if they do, you'll end up losing two or three Garchomps and might as well scoop. Just don't let them Max Potin or KO Altaria's and you should win. Tier 1.5 seems about right.
 
Garchomps are easily set-up when you have 2 Gabites out. The only real issue this deck has is an early Rayquaza, now that can really kill you. If you make it past that you're in good shape though. It's probably tier 1, but I like Eels and Darkrai more.
 
If you play Max Potion yourself and Catcher-KO Hydreigon asap, you will win against that deck a lot more than you'll lose. Then you trade 2 for 1, making the prize trade favor you. If they Max Potion without a Hydreigon set up, they lose all of that Energy and then you're still free to take 2HKOs while they struggle to set up another attacker.
 
I've also tested with this deck quite a bit...and I realize how important Emolga is to this deck. If you don't get a T2 Gabite, the game goes downhill. :| Emolga snags the Gible and the Swablu, (or however your set-up is), and gets you ready to swarm. Furthermore, I can't stress how much Super Rod is a necessity. ZekEels will pick off your Altarias like no other. I run two right now, but I may even jack it up to three. (I currently run a 3-3 Altaria line.) These help you get back up on your feet if your opponent gets a quick Raikou out. What are all of your experiences with the deck thus far?
 
I am now currently playtesting a modified version of Yuta's build and I have to say it is a decent deck that will probably rank tier 1.5 and will probably have a couple of Battle Roads wins to its name. This deck will definitely benefit from having a 4th Emolga or even a 4th Gabite since Emolga is really its best starter and having 2 Gabite's prized hurts its speed.
 
So far I have play tested Raikou/Eels vs. Garchomp/Altaria during ten games. Raikou/Eels has won eight games; Garchomp/Altaria has won two games.

I've been able to consistently (not every game but quite often) set up Raikou-EX x2 and 2-3 Eelektrik with a Skyarrow Bridge thus being able to use Volt Bolt every turn (as long as I can drop one energy from my hand if I only have two Eelektrik on the bench). Sniping the Altaria makes the game end pretty quickly. I run four Max Potion so I am usually able to save a Raikou-EX or two from death (I find this very useful; it has probably saved me a game or two). Mewteo-EX with a DCE has given me a few Swablu kills (one T1 donk and another game in which I started with Mewtwo-EX and killed two Swablu in two turns).

I'll give another update in a few days (if anyone cares for one) :).
 
Secret Pikachu said:
So far I have play tested Raikou/Eels vs. Garchomp/Altaria during ten games. Raikou/Eels has won eight games; Garchomp/Altaria has won two games.
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I think EelBox (I will now refer it as EelBox since it uses different attackers nowadays) will be the BDIF. I am not surprised by the results of your play-testing at all and in fact it is what is really to be expected in the match-up. But this shouldnt dissuade people from using Garchomp/Altaria in Battle Roads since in the real world players will come to Battle roads with different decks and not solely Eel decks. Keep in mind Eel and Darkrai variants will also have to contend with Fighting Pokemon (Terrakion, Terrakion Ex et al.) in Battle Roads so if those are able to knock out Eel decks and Darkrai decks then the Garchomp/Altaria player has a chance of winning it all especially in a Battle Roads where there is no top cut.
 
testing shows that Altchomp is the worst of all the decks I tested, even winning a match with it was a miracle, much to overrated this deck needs to 2 hit KO and when it cannot it loses. Auto-loss to all decks running Max Potion, or SSU [HDD, Klink-Steel, Eel, most Darkrai variations and loads more] as well as all Garbodor variations. Its a much worse version of DarkDeck and Cincinno-Victini and Round and well almost all swarm decks. I rate it terrible-tier 3.
 
thematteo0 said:
testing shows that Altchomp is the worst of all the decks I tested, even winning a match with it was a miracle, much to overrated this deck needs to 2 hit KO and when it cannot it loses. Auto-loss to all decks running Max Potion, or SSU [HDD, Klink-Steel, Eel, most Darkrai variations and loads more] as well as all Garbodor variations. Its a much worse version of DarkDeck and Cincinno-Victini and Round and well almost all swarm decks. I rate it terrible-tier 3.
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No, the least it will be is Tier 2, but yes, it isn't a good deck, and just like Tetrakion, it was good to start, but now everyone knows how to get around it, so it loses all it's hype.
 
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