Discussion The Problem with Lost March

[Perfect_Shot]

Oh no. Not another one of these again, another of my 'don't play this deck because it's technically bad' posts! Well yes, it's happening. Lost March is indeed bad and Detective Perfect Shot is here to point out the cause. Why, you may ask? Why is this hollow imitation of Night March worthy of such scorn? Here's several points to sway your opinion. Number 4 may shock you!


1- It's essentially a Stage 2 deck.

And not even a good one. Hoppip has such a low HP count and a weakness which could prove dangerous in the upcoming meta, also it doesn't fare well against spread. Additionally, any parts of the early evolution line which goes in the discard must be retrieved or else you risk losing too much damage for not having them in the Lost Zone. You may then say, "Well good sir, Skiploom has an Ability to dump itself in the Lost Zone to bring up Jumpluff, so clearly it has some positives."

Nope. Your argument is invalid, and I'll gladly tell you why. In order to do this Jumpluff must be in the deck. If you draw into it, guess what? You need to waste a shuffle Supporter to put it back in, or toss it away with Lost Mixer, which wastes one of the few attackers the deck has. Add that you need to use Elm's Lecture in order to have everything run quickly, and sometimes twice in a row to get the Skiplooms out means that you haven't been drawing anywhere near the amount of cards your opponent has. That is definitely bad.


2 - Lost Mixer is terribly bad version of Battle Compressor.

Lost Mixer is the real reason why the deck sucks. In order to use it you need to send 2 cards to the Lost Zone, and to streamline the list you run a very specific amount of Pokemon and many Trainers. The problem with this? You generally shouldn't be able to make full use of this card. Some of the time the cards you'll be able to 'Zone' with this are the things you want to attack with (like Natu) and the early evolution line of Jumpluff. The majority of the time you'll statistically be able to use this is when you have nothing you want to discard, such as Trainers and that doesn't help your damage numbers. To have the best odds of this card being live the Lost March player would need to clog their deck with other Pokemon, and that would undoubtedly end badly.


3 - You can't run Natu on it's own.

Well, you could. You definately run Trumbeak alongside it, but that only gives you 80 damage. To make the best use of Natu you have to go about clogging your deck with Pokemon to burn with Lost Mixer, which as said above would make the deck inherently inconsistent. You could argue for use of Spinarak, but if the opponent knows that they can take advantage of Lost March's bad early game they will gladly Guzma or Switch out their active and then take a knockout.


4 - The name of the deck sounds bad.

Lost March.

Lost.
March.

Nope.


5 - The deck has a terrible early game/weakness to other single prize attackers.

This is in direct contrast to the deck this is imitating, which generally takes 2 prizes on it's first turn or at least gets most of the way there. With Lost March, your job is to plant weeds and hope your opponent doesn't kill them. Losing at least one Hoppip or Natu from the opponent's first attack is basically a guarantee, and with Latios and Tapu Koko being common filler cards several LM attackers can be set up for a knockout with their powerful spread moves. Even factoring in using Skiploom's Ability to bring in a fresh Jumpluff doesn't make up for any Hoppips or Natus you lost along the way.


6 - Expanded doesn't care about it.

Even with Fighting resistance on the Jumpluff line Buzzwole has too many damage enhancers to not plow through Lost March. Zoroark has lots of HP and amazing consistency, Trevenant is painful to deal with if the Break can be brought out quickly and Night March itself utterly destroys LM with little effort. Trashalanche hits similar numbers for far less work and Blastoise has ROS Articuno to swing the prize trade in it's favor. The only decks that Lost March can (arguably) beat consistently are Wailord and Greninja, which are both decks with inherent problems. To add to the problems Lost March gains little from Expanded, the best cards gained being Brigette (which doesn't exact help the dire need for Skiplooms) and Level Ball.


7 - Call of Duty is released the month before.

Seriously, how can you playtest Lost March when you're still too busy getting 360 no-scopes on weak noobs? Only once you nerf Call of Duty can Lost March truly be successful.

I rest my case.

 

[DragonFang101]

Oh no. Not another one of these again, another of my 'don't play this deck because it's technically bad' posts! Well yes, it's happening. Lost March is indeed bad and Detective Perfect Shot is here to point out the cause. Why, you may ask? Why is this hollow imitation of Night March worthy of such scorn? Here's several points to sway your opinion. Number 4 may shock you!


1- It's essentially a Stage 2 deck.

And not even a good one. Hoppip has such a low HP count and a weakness which could prove dangerous in the upcoming meta, also it doesn't fare well against spread. Additionally, any parts of the early evolution line which goes in the discard must be retrieved or else you risk losing too much damage for not having them in the Lost Zone. You may then say, "Well good sir, Skiploom has an Ability to dump itself in the Lost Zone to bring up Jumpluff, so clearly it has some positives."

Nope. Your argument is invalid, and I'll gladly tell you why. In order to do this Jumpluff must be in the deck. If you draw into it, guess what? You need to waste a shuffle Supporter to put it back in, or toss it away with Lost Mixer, which wastes one of the few attackers the deck has. Add that you need to use Elm's Lecture in order to have everything run quickly, and sometimes twice in a row to get the Skiplooms out means that you haven't been drawing anywhere near the amount of cards your opponent has. That is definitely bad.


2 - Lost Mixer is terribly bad version of Battle Compressor.

Lost Mixer is the real reason why the deck sucks. In order to use it you need to send 2 cards to the Lost Zone, and to streamline the list you run a very specific amount of Pokemon and many Trainers. The problem with this? You generally shouldn't be able to make full use of this card. Some of the time the cards you'll be able to 'Zone' with this are the things you want to attack with (like Natu) and the early evolution line of Jumpluff. The majority of the time you'll statistically be able to use this is when you have nothing you want to discard, such as Trainers and that doesn't help your damage numbers. To have the best odds of this card being live the Lost March player would need to clog their deck with other Pokemon, and that would undoubtedly end badly.


3 - You can't run Natu on it's own.

Well, you could. You definately run Trumbeak alongside it, but that only gives you 80 damage. To make the best use of Natu you have to go about clogging your deck with Pokemon to burn with Lost Mixer, which as said above would make the deck inherently inconsistent. You could argue for use of Spinarak, but if the opponent knows that they can take advantage of Lost March's bad early game they will gladly Guzma or Switch out their active and then take a knockout.


4 - The name of the deck sounds bad.

Lost March.

Lost.
March.

Nope.


5 - The deck has a terrible early game/weakness to other single prize attackers.

This is in direct contrast to the deck this is imitating, which generally takes 2 prizes on it's first turn or at least gets most of the way there. With Lost March, your job is to plant weeds and hope your opponent doesn't kill them. Losing at least one Hoppip or Natu from the opponent's first attack is basically a guarantee, and with Latios and Tapu Koko being common filler cards several LM attackers can be set up for a knockout with their powerful spread moves. Even factoring in using Skiploom's Ability to bring in a fresh Jumpluff doesn't make up for any Hoppips or Natus you lost along the way.


6 - Expanded doesn't care about it.

Even with Fighting resistance on the Jumpluff line Buzzwole has too many damage enhancers to not plow through Lost March. Zoroark has lots of HP and amazing consistency, Trevenant is painful to deal with if the Break can be brought out quickly and Night March itself utterly destroys LM with little effort. Trashalanche hits similar numbers for far less work and Blastoise has ROS Articuno to swing the prize trade in it's favor. The only decks that Lost March can (arguably) beat consistently are Wailord and Greninja, which are both decks with inherent problems. To add to the problems Lost March gains little from Expanded, the best cards gained being Brigette (which doesn't exact help the dire need for Skiplooms) and Level Ball.


7 - Call of Duty is released the month before.

Seriously, how can you playtest Lost March when you're still too busy getting 360 no-scopes on weak noobs? Only once you nerf Call of Duty can Lost March truly be successful.

I rest my case.

To add on to the problem with Lost Mixer, it becomes very confusing when you want to use Marshadow GX because now you need one Pokemon on the field, one in the discard pile and as many as you can in the Lost Zone. Nooooo thanks!

 

[Lord Goomy]

It’s only positives:
In the rare case it gets set up, it does half decent damage and has NO COUNTER, since nothing comes back from the Lost Zone.

 

[DragonFang101]

It’s only positives:
In the rare case it gets set up, it does half decent damage and has NO COUNTER, since nothing comes back from the Lost Zone.

That is until Buzzwole picks em' all off. Marshadow GX and other low HP Pokemon have been sufficient in a Night March setup because you can set everything up on your first turn.

 

[TorchHG]

I do like a lot of the points that you bring up. I do think that the deck certainly will clog up with Pokémon (early builds I have show around 20 Pokémon, oof), but I think there’s a few minor points that may have been missed since you talk only about the negatives. I only bring these up just so people can get a better picture of the situation.

To add to point 1, this is definitely an issue. It is definitely a stage 2 deck, but the only difference is that you don’t need rare candy. And rather than Jumpluff being in hand it needs to be in deck, which granted is easier to do especially given that most of our main line supporters are shuffle-draw supporters (Cynthia, Tate and Liza, Judge), so shuffling in some Jumpluff isn’t difficult if you have shuffle-draw supporters in hand. Of course, this may very well be the big issue, as it seems it will be a lot harder to get some good consistency with supporters alone and Zoroark will certainly give this deck a run for its money. Prizing is also an issue, as damage output is certainly limited if any of the Jumpluff line is prized (any 1 piece prized limits by 40 damage, and if 2 of a card is prized, that’s 80 damage).

Point 2: It does give the gas to the deck and with a high number of Pokémon, getting higher numbers off of this isn’t an issue. The issue is that if you’re holding Pokémon, you’re not as likely to have draw options. If you can use lost mixer well, you’ve got a very specific hand that is not likely to occur, but does make future hands better.

Point 3: I’m not sure who would think running Natu on its own is a good idea, but also a valid point. Only exclusively fits in Jumpluff builds, but I think something that makes this troublesome is the need to run Double Colorless energy to make him work. Easier to set up than Jumpluff, but has a very specific setup that might warrant cards like energy loto being put in.

Point 4: The name certainly is not as good as night march, but I’m fine calling it that way as long as I get to play Natu (sorry, I really like Natu. So round...)

Point 5: very valid point. You need a good type matchup to make your early game good, like Buzzwole GX and other Grass or Psychic weak GXs, but other GXs will certainly tank early hits nicely and will take a fair amount of work to ger to numbers thag will be relevant (Choice Band and setting up 4 Jumpluff or replacing a missing Jumpluff with 1 fully effective Lost Mixer. This has to happen on turn 2 to be somewhat relevant, so drawing the perfect hand). Although 1 prize attackers have some easier numbers, it isn’t much easier given choice band doesn’t work, meaning that technically it’s 60 damage less, you’re left needing to send only 1 less Pokémon to the lost zone. 1 prize attackers put a lot more pressure on you, and if they deal 60-70 damage consistently and easily, the matchup is a very unfavorable prize trade.

 

[TorchHG]

Oops, points 6 and 7 got deleted when I posted. To continue:

6. Lost March is a strictly worse Night March. Sure, you can utilize Dimension Valley and use only Grass Energy, but I don’t think it makes it as relevant. The numbers are still harder to hit.

7. I don’t play CoD much, but that’s because I’m an FPS n00b. Definitely a fair point.

These are all really valid points, I just wanted to add a little more info so people got a larger picture (by no means the full picture). I’m definitely gonna play this deck because it seems fun, but by no means is this a tier 1 deck.

 

[Otaku]

You know, if you played this closer to the vest, you'd have a strong position @Perfect_Shot you'd have had a strong position. Lost March < Night March and that is what we'd expect given folks didn't react too well to Night March. I assumed we'd get a "Nerfed March" sooner or later. However, by exaggerating the strength of your points I've got to disagree.

This is all Theorymon. I just want to make sure we all know that. We won't have this stuff until November, even the Japanese don't officially have all of it until September 7 (not sure when they actually become tournament legal). We aren't even officially in the SM-On Format yet. So... not just Theorymon, but heavy Theorymon. I won't be quoting everything you said, @Perfect_Shot because the thread isn't that long and I'll be wordy enough as is. If I missed something, let me know.

1- It's essentially a Stage 2 deck.

Assuming we cannot just focus on Natu:

I would argue this is essentially a "Stage 1.5" deck. Yes, Jumpluff is a Stage 2 but it should be put into play via Skiploom's Ability and this is easier than you make it sound. Really think about your own argument; if you use Professor Elm's Lecture twice (your first and second turns), you should be much less likely to have more than one Jumpluff in hand, because you've only got your opening hand, your draw for the turn, and any supplemental non-Supporter draw you're running.

If you do use a draw Supporter this is SM-On; you're probably using a shuffle-and-draw Supporter like Cynthia or Copycat or Tate & Liza, which means there is no added burden to shuffling away a Jumpluff. Even the timing may work in your favor, as you use any ready Skiplooms before shuffling away a Jumpluff in hand, so that you've got less of a chance of then drawing or redrawing a Jumpluff after using a shuffle-and-draw Supporter. Which is still slower and less reliable than the mostly or mono-Basic builds of Night March decks, but we've had swarming BREAK Evolutions of a Stage 2 (Greninja BREAK) decks prove competitive, so I'm neither writing off Lost March nor hyping it just yet.

2 - Lost Mixer is terribly bad version of Battle Compressor.

Well, yeah. Ultra Ball is a terribly bad version of Battle Compressor as well. Even an Item that sent three cards of your choice from your deck to the Lost Zone wouldn't be a perfect analog for Battle Compressor in Night March, because the entire point of the Lost Zone is that it is a secondary discard pile where nothing ever returns, while Battle Compressor released alongside a reprint of VS Seeker. Lost Mixer will be the Item that Lost March decks use to increaes their damage output, and it cannot do that as well as Battle Compressor, but it does give you a draw off of its effect, and that gives you the chance to get something else you need. As for "clogging your deckw ith other Pokémon", once again that is a concern but not the hurdle you're making it out to be. Any Pokémon can be Lost March fodder, and most decks will contain TecH and spare copies of cards that will fill that void.

3 - You can't run Natu on it's own.

Yeah, you can and if Jumpluff is too difficult to play, you should. Skiploom isn't the only way to get Pokémon into your Lost Zone. It might not even be the best. Got an Ultra Ball or Mysterious Treasure? Discard a Prism Star Pokémon and you just gained +20 damage while facilitating a search effect. Edit: No you don't, because it states Prism Star Pokémon don't count. D'oh! You may not like Lost Mixer, but you should at least allow an average of one Pokémon sent to the Lost Zone via its effect. Four Natu and four Rescue Stretcher (it ain't Natu Prism Star, after all), coupled with trading favorably for Prizes against at least some Pokémon-GX might make this the preferred Lost March approach. Oh, and unless your opponent sends Natu to th lost Zone, Natu means Marshadow-GX can provide a bonus attacker (albeit a smallish-one worth 2 Prizes).

I... I think I might be trying Zoroark-GX/Natu/Marshadow-GX as a deck. >.> Edit: Even though I goofed on the Prism Star Pokémon, Zoroark-GX is still a tempting partner because Zoroark-GX. XP

4 - The name of the deck sounds bad.

Welcome to TCG's. You must be new.

5 - The deck has a terrible early game/weakness to other single prize attackers.

Again, this is more you broadly overstating your case than being wrong. Just like spread is an issue for Night March, it is an issue here. Night march expects its attackers to be OHKO'd. It has to worry about solid Bench hits scoring a double OHKO, or at least 1.5 OHKO's, and that holds true the entire match. Lost March mostly just has to worry about it early game, and if you're not running Jumpluff, it is even less of a concern. Competent Night March players learn when to Bench several Night Marchers and when to Bench only a few at a time...

...Lost March shouldn't be that different. First, it isn't "single Prize" attackers that are the problem; a Natu with a DCE trading for another single Prize attacker with a DCE isn't that big of a deal. Latios (Shining Legends) and Tapu Koko (SM - Black Star Promos) are issues because they spread damage. Buzzwole-GX does that as well, but I think you know why it wasn't worth mentioning; you'd just rely on Natu, Choice Band, and four Pokémon in your Lost Zone to trade one Prize for two. Even if Buzzwole-GX takes an early lead because you overcommit to Hoppip during your set up, Natu can still make up the difference. Also, Buzzwole-GX is much more deck specific than either of those two.

Latios is also Psychic Weak, so three Pokémon in your Lost Zone and Natu starts OHKOing Latios right back. As long as you pace things so that your opponent isn't getting 1.5 OHKO's each time it attacks (OHKO health Natu in the Active, 2HKO Benched Natu) it should be pretty even. Tapu Koko is harder if you don't go first and get your Hoppip down ASAP. If you do, it gets to do 20 to a bunch of 30 HP targets, which then Evolve into Skiploom the next turn, remove themselves from play, and are replaced by Jumpluff. If you go second... yeah, s'why I want a non-Lost March attacker in the deck.

6 - Expanded doesn't care about it.

Irrelevant, unless someone was overhyping Lost March.

Though if Zoroark-GX/Natu actually works, it would also be untrue.

7 - Call of Duty is released the month before.

Everyone knows that Call of Duty doesn't target the same demographic as Pokémon.

Kids play CoD to "prove" their mature.

Adults play Pokémon because it is fun and reminds them of being a kid. XD

 

[Merovingian]

Yeah, you can and if Jumpluff is too difficult to play, you should. Skiploom isn't the only way to get Pokémon into your Lost Zone. It might not even be the best. Got an Ultra Ball or Mysterious Treasure? Discard a [Prism Star] Pokémon and you just gained +20 damage while facilitating a search effect.

Lost March will not count Prism Star Pokemon when calculating damage

 

[Otaku]

Lost March will not count Prism Star Pokemon when calculating damage

Thank you!

That is a massive mistake on my part. The sad part is I knew that the first time I read the translations, but stupidly forgot and managed to not read that clause when I went to post. Definitely hurts the deck. I'll be editing my earlier post, just so everyone knows I know I got it wrong. XP

 

[Panzerolas]

i feel we will get more cards that will be able to interact more with the lost zone (maybe more supporters, etc). until then i think this archtype is good but may be a bit too slow for tier 1, like night march was.

 

[Pizzadone]

I disagree. Don't look at LMarch in a vaccuum. Once you compare the cards it coexists with, the deck gets way better.

Vs malamar, Natu is capable of high damage as soon as it is set down. For ultra necrozoma GX, Lost March has absolutely NO maximum ceiling for damage. Using something like Alolan ninetails GX to search items (which can also hit for fairy damage, use fairy charm, bench snipe or straight up free kill an ultra beast), you can use two lost mixers for 80 damage turn 2, twice for 160. Add in 4 Trumbeak, you can hit 240. With a good pokemon search engine (Pokemon fan club, olivia, apricorn maker, high Ball card counts, or other) you can OHKO just about anything in format. Shrine of punishment finishes off any 250 HP stage twos.

The jumpluff line isn't even necessary because the attack says "pokemon in the lost zone" not "lost marchers in the lost zone." Notice that Natu has 40 hp. It can't be bench sniped for 30 like Joltik could. Besides item lock, a NMarch killing strat could rely on the 30HP number to eliminate joltik, then run foes out of dimension valley or DCE. Things like Greninja GX, Latios SHL, and Koko Promo deal 30, 30, and 20. All you have to do is hold the Natu cards in your hand. Latios can use weakness on an active Natu, but you can use rescue stretcher to pull it back without worrying that it impacts your damage strategy. You could run the psychic fairy charm on Ninetails for immunity and force them to promote killable GXs. Running too many pokemon doesn't have to be a bad thing, either. Load your deck with tools like Marshadow SHL and Tapu Lele GX to make sure you're fully consistent, then lost-mixer the extras. Alolan Vulpix's Beacon can help search them out turn one as well.

Don't knock it til ya play it.

 

[TorchHG]

I really like the strengths of the deck, and honestly I like bringing up the weaknesses of the deck first to show that it isn’t necessarily an infallible deck. Of course, there might be a time where a no weakness deck occurs, but I don’t want to be in that world...

It’s a lovely, if not obvious, deck idea that once we realize what strengths and weaknesses it has, we can decelop ideas to work around Lost March.

 

[Lanstar]

I dislike Lost March, but not because of how it might work now. Instead, it is because it can lock specific cards from existing, just because they could make the strategy broken.

The move reminds me of the Greedy Dice: That card discouraged the game creators from making other cards that could control what cards get prized. Which is sad, as cards like that could help reduce the amount of luck needed to win games.

Lost March adds a nasty lock to how the game designers can make future cards can interact with the lost zone. If they make it too easy for a player to send Pokemon to the lost zone, we could have a broken strategy on our hands, and remove the point to having the lost zone: A place where cards are nearly voided from the game entirely, and can't easily be recycled back in play, like the discard pile.

Why have an attack that abuses this mechanic so much, other than to limit future lost zone cards from checking strategies that frequently recycle the discard? And shouldn't a player pay a greater penalty to send a card to the lost zone instead of the discard, if Lost March had never existed? I would think that without this attack, the Lost Mixer would draw 2 cards instead of 1, as the penalty of removing 2 cards from play is pretty unforgiving!

That's my issue with the move: It twists up a neat mechanic into being either broken or meaningless in future metagames.

 

[Perfect_Shot]

Well then, glad to see this worked out. I love to see threads with some good conversation in 'em.

I definately did exaggerate a bit, but only in the interest of keeping at bay some of the unrealistic expectations others have of the deck. When there is so much praise for ideas of having an extremely high damage ceiling and such strength in single prize attackers, my points are about as realistic as those that believe that they can get this deck to hit one-hit knockout numbers on Pokemon GX as often as they like. A player can't expect things to go their way. You can't expect to have enough success against the present top decks when this one needs to do so much more in order to hit the same numbers they can. There was much hype over the Magnezone/Dusk Mane Necrozma GX deck prior to it's release (another one which I made a thread discouraging competitive use of it) which like Lost March has great damage potential but simply has too many steps it needs to take to reach it. I simply don't see this situation being any different. Although assuming the deck follows similar singles pricing values as Night March cards did, at least Lost March will be cheap to build.

You can't assume that every time you want to play down a Lost Mixer you will actually have a card that you want to give up to it. Do you always want to be forced into losing one or two Natu or parts of the Jumpluff line? The point about Lost Mixer wasn't about can you use it, it was about do you actually want to in a situation where you could potentially sacrifice too many attackers to do any lasting harm to the opponent, and how often will you be forced into using it because you simply need it to aid your damage output despite what it could cost you? How often will situations like this arise? The lists I've seen so far don't exactly leave much room to have spare Pokemon to sacrifice, and using Lost Mixer with a Trainer offers little benefit.

Part of my reasoning for going over the top with the main post is because I see the deck in concept as being similar in nature to Greninja; it has high points where everything it needs is in its grasp and is overwhelmingly powerful as a result, and it also has lows that go beyond the worst situation that most decks ever experience and the player generally has little control over which scenario happens, as prizing heavily affects how both decks play.

I'm definately not trying to poke fun at anyone who wants to build this. I just see players focused heavily on the positives who might not be weighing the potential negatives.

 

[Dark Espeon]

Hi Perfect_Shot,

Lost March is indeed vulnerable on the first two turns and there sure are counters to it. In the first turn it needs to ensure that Hoppip survive and on the second turn the likelihood to ohko common Basic Pokémon GX or stage 1 Pokémon GX are not favorable. It starts to pick up speed from that turn on. In that regard it is similar to Night March.

Regarding the general vulnerability to other one-prize attackers it all depends on the one-prize attacker we are talking about. Lost March has issues with one-prize attackers that are able to survive a hit. An example would be Donphan. This is another similarity to Night March. The same also holds for Pokémon GX that block damage or survive two to three hits. Examples would be Shuckle GX and Metal decks focused on a combination of Stakataka and Metal Frying Pan. It can also have issues with one-prize attackers that can ohko two Lost marchers at once but the number of Pokémon able to do that is limited. This is a benefit of Lost March over Night March.

I do not think it has more consistency issues than other decks since it will receive a lot of support in the trainers released in this set. In this case it is also similar to Night March which received a lot of support in the set it was released in.

In a nutshell it is not a broken deck but one of the three vaiable non-Gx decks that will come out of Lost Thunder. In general Pokemon did an excellent job in SM-on to avoid broken decks that dominate the format and instead provided us with multiple near broken deck options.

 

[Otaku]

I definately did exaggerate a bit, but only in the interest of keeping at bay some of the unrealistic expectations others have of the deck.

Two wrong's don't make a right. Believe me, I sympathize with trying to talk people out of overhyping cards, and in providing balance to a lopsided discussion... however, I encourage you to do as honestly as is possible. Perhaps my past failures have left you convinced you do have to filter everything I say for honesty - you should be filtering out bad arguments, of course! - isn't it frustrating? Doesn't it make you trust me less, perhaps even lean towards blocking me? I mean, if you already have blocked me, you won't even be seeing this. XD

You can't assume that every time you want to play down a Lost Mixer you will actually have a card that you want to give up to it.

It is bad to assume an ideal situation for your deck, where everything you want to discard is where it needs to be and everything you want to keep is where it needs to be... but that doesn't mean the answer is to assume the worst possible scenario, either. Again, stressing that is it far too early for concrete data, I believe the balanced approach, based on past decks with similar requirements, is that a player will average about one Pokémon discarded per Lost Mixer. That is four Pokémon in the Lost Zone. I'm going to assume one Trumbeak is Prized most of the game as well, so that is only another three to the Lost Zone. That's seven cards, good for 140, which Choice Band ups to 170. Is that good? No. Is that adequate for a mediocre performance for the deck, where things basically went half right and half wrong? When it is a glass cannon Basic you can fuel with one DCE, actually yeah, that's adequate. It might even still be fairly good, considering Natu hits Psychic Weakness and a Marshadow-GX can copy a Natu in the discard to hit Fighting Weakness.

If the deck does have to run the Jumpluff line, you only need to use a Skiploom's effect twice and you've got four more (non-Prism Star) Pokémon in the Lost Zone. 4 + 3 + 4 = 11. 20 * 11 = 220. 220 +30 = 250. I'm not saying it will be the BDIF, but that's pretty good if we can make the whole thing work while squeezed into the same deck. Think I gave too good of results? One more Trumbeak hiding in the Prizes most of the game still means 230 damage once things are otherwise fully underway... off of a Grass Energy or DCE, depending on whether Jumpluff or Natu are doing the attacking. Thanks to Type-matching, I'm not sure the deck will even need the Jumpluff line.

Put it all together, and the deck has a lot of potential.

Potential strengths.

Potential issues.

 

[Zzrrdd]

I'm liking the look of lost March at the moment. Sometimes it seems like people are disappointed that it doesn't seem as good as night march, but I think were forgetting how annoying night march was, and how broken it was at one point. If lost march was as good as night march, surely it would be a bad thing. At the moment it seems balanced, and I think it will definitely compete with the top decks, at least initially. But its not broken, which to be honest makes be more excited to try and get it to work

 

[Ecko9i6]

I dislike Lost March, but not because of how it might work now. Instead, it is because it can lock specific cards from existing, just because they could make the strategy broken.

The move reminds me of the Greedy Dice: That card discouraged the game creators from making other cards that could control what cards get prized. Which is sad, as cards like that could help reduce the amount of luck needed to win games.

Lost March adds a nasty lock to how the game designers can make future cards can interact with the lost zone. If they make it too easy for a player to send Pokemon to the lost zone, we could have a broken strategy on our hands, and remove the point to having the lost zone: A place where cards are nearly voided from the game entirely, and can't easily be recycled back in play, like the discard pile.

Why have an attack that abuses this mechanic so much, other than to limit future lost zone cards from checking strategies that frequently recycle the discard? And shouldn't a player pay a greater penalty to send a card to the lost zone instead of the discard, if Lost March had never existed? I would think that without this attack, the Lost Mixer would draw 2 cards instead of 1, as the penalty of removing 2 cards from play is pretty unforgiving!

That's my issue with the move: It twists up a neat mechanic into being either broken or meaningless in future metagames.

I 100% agree with this. Let's hope that the mechanic of the Lost March deck doesn't affect the Lost Zone mechanic as a whole. I hope that they incorporate cards like Karen but interact with the Lost Zone instead. That would make this much more balanced out since people would be able to tech a card for this archetype.

 

[AuraJackle]

I 100% agree with this. Let's hope that the mechanic of the Lost March deck doesn't affect the Lost Zone mechanic as a whole. I hope that they incorporate cards like Karen but interact with the Lost Zone instead. That would make this much more balanced out since people would be able to tech a card for this archetype.

There should never be a way to get cards back from lost zone but if the deck becomes a problem it's more likely an oricorio type counter will become available

 

[Ecko9i6]

There should never be a way to get cards back from lost zone but if the deck becomes a problem it's more likely an oricorio type counter will become available

Yeah I suppose this makes sense. I was just thinking of some kind of tech card and Karen was the first thing that came to mind. Perhaps adding cards that also benefit a player based on how many cards are in your opponents lost zone? An oricorio type tech sounds really good though, I can get behind that.