Blog The Return of an Old Friend: A Look at Pidgeot-EX for Standard!
- Thread starter crystal_pidgeot
- Start date
I'm glad you enjoyed it. I do hope it continues to server you well!
I feel like you waited for just this moment to drop an essay on this guy. Definitely interesting article overall.
I am pretty hesitant on the list, however, and disagree with a bit with what you said. There's a lot going on here and it doesn't seem like it would draw well. One Paint Roller seems really out there and inconsistent. Ninetales doesn't exist in any shape or form in the Standard format (maybe at the bottom tables) and I would feel like a fourth Shrine would be more useful in that regard. Two Spirit Link? If your goal is to take advantage of M Pidgeot's bulk, you're gonna wanna evolve into that as soon as possible. A turn of doing nothing is a turn of not doing damage; your deck seems too reactive. Also...NEVER does Birch > Sycamore - I can't even begin to discuss why 3 Birch should never be played in place of Sycamore. Octillery is risky as your sole drawing power, especially when Garbodor is so prevalent. You mention adding Feather Lance and Mach Cyclone damage together for that perfect 210, but the deck seems to surround the idea of Mirror Move. If your deck wants to abuse Mirror Move and Max Potion shenanigans, I would consider including Puzzle of Time potentially, to make sure you get those resources back and to choose what you draw with Octillery. My biggest issue with the deck is probably the lack of Hoopa haha.
I am pretty hesitant on the list, however, and disagree with a bit with what you said. There's a lot going on here and it doesn't seem like it would draw well. One Paint Roller seems really out there and inconsistent. Ninetales doesn't exist in any shape or form in the Standard format (maybe at the bottom tables) and I would feel like a fourth Shrine would be more useful in that regard. Two Spirit Link? If your goal is to take advantage of M Pidgeot's bulk, you're gonna wanna evolve into that as soon as possible. A turn of doing nothing is a turn of not doing damage; your deck seems too reactive. Also...NEVER does Birch > Sycamore - I can't even begin to discuss why 3 Birch should never be played in place of Sycamore. Octillery is risky as your sole drawing power, especially when Garbodor is so prevalent. You mention adding Feather Lance and Mach Cyclone damage together for that perfect 210, but the deck seems to surround the idea of Mirror Move. If your deck wants to abuse Mirror Move and Max Potion shenanigans, I would consider including Puzzle of Time potentially, to make sure you get those resources back and to choose what you draw with Octillery. My biggest issue with the deck is probably the lack of Hoopa haha.
Eh, I couldn't get my mega sceptile garbodor deck to start running well UNTIL I dropped some sycamore for birch (I INVENTED THE MEGA SCEPTILE GARBODOR FIRST, DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED WITH THE ORLANDO JUNIOR AND THE REST OF THEM I INVENTED IT FIRST!!! I BEGAN TO TEST THE MOMENT THAT M SCEPTILE WAS ANNOUNCED, SO YOU CAN'T TELL ME ANY DIFFERENT). Sorry had to get that off my chest, anyway my point is that there is the occasional time that Birch will trump Sycamore, but it is very occasional and only works for certain decks.
I agree with some sentiments that a few cards are pretty out there (like paint roller, I would use Delinquent over that, any day) and as for Birch, I would replace them with N. It's disruptive, is generally a better draw, and in my own testing with my Alakazam deck, which relies on keeping resources within the deck as opposed to discarding them, I still used Sycamore. 3 Syc/4 N worked really well for me, but in the end I still have ended up with 3/3 or 4/3. Having Sycamore is incredibly important for keeping up with other, faster decks. N is 1 card less + shuffle instead of discarding your hand. Early game for decks that absolutely need their resources in their deck, N is the best in Standard imo. Colress in Expanded is one of my favorites for similar reasons. And this is a deck I would definitely run 2 Shaymin/1 Hoopa, to aid in consistency, set-up, and drawing into those much needed resources, and spirit links should definitely be 3 to better draw into them.
I do like this take on the way to run the deck. I've been struggling to find good partners for Pidgeot, and considered running Pidgeot by itself with a more disruptive build. But I hadn't thought of a reactive one. It's a good article and it definitely gives me some food for thought. I do believe Pidgeot is a good card - I just think the community hasn't found the "best" way to play it yet.
I apologize for any typos, I am typing on my phone.
I do like this take on the way to run the deck. I've been struggling to find good partners for Pidgeot, and considered running Pidgeot by itself with a more disruptive build. But I hadn't thought of a reactive one. It's a good article and it definitely gives me some food for thought. I do believe Pidgeot is a good card - I just think the community hasn't found the "best" way to play it yet.
I apologize for any typos, I am typing on my phone.
I'm glad you showed up. I was waiting for you to say something but I have an essay to respond with if you don't mind.
I know. I was warned greatly that people would find this list odd but this is how the game works for me. Some of my favorite decks are toolbox decks and things I can abuse Max Potion. You are free to disagree though but I hop I can explain my reasoning.
You have no idea. Sometimes I brick but I feel this deck can handle it assuming you can do something in response to damage. Some decks can also fail the same way and brick just as hard despite all the draw support.
When I wrote this, it was something I would run into from time to time. This article was in editing for like a month and a half. I still think Paint Roller has a place but the space could go to another card. You can get around a Chaos Wheel and discard a tool and get a card but I like to prepare for random stuff. A forth Shrine could be useful but you win Stadium wars most of the time so three is fine.
I like two because you often have a few free turns to just mega evolve. For me, it's an ideal turn for me since I want them to hit me first. Turns do exist where you can use other attacks and they do happen often. So in that case, we have the two spirit links for the other Pidgeot. It works better than you think, trust me here.
I would like a better supporter but I feel Birch is the best option since we can see new cards. For me personally, I would much rather save things like Max Potion and VS Seeker just so I have them later. If you want to replace them with Sycamore but I feel you lose too many needed cards that way.
Yep, this is a problem but I make sure to kill them before they become too much of an issue but I like Octillery because it gives me protection to N. If Pidgeot takes a lead and it get N to one or two cards, it becomes harder to find the things you need to keep it alive. Octillery lets you stay in the game and have answers to things and I feel playing the deck with Shaymin-EX and Hoopa-EX makes the deck weaker though this is up for debate.
Ideally you want to use Mirror Move so you don't over extend by attaching Energy quickly to the Active. For me, I like to put that Energy on a Bench Pidgeot-EX and have that ready to attack while the Active sits there and sponge hit. The perk of 210 damage mean you can KO a Mega Mewtwo and Mega Gardevoir if they are slow. You just have to use your best judgement here when it comes to this but it comes naturally when you've played the deck a few times. You just need those feels.
I do want Puzzle of Time. In the list I've played with it, it was very useful. Having 4+ Max Potion a turn is so nice. I love it. I also want to fit hammers into the deck as well but deck space it tight.
For me, I tend to start with Hoopa-EX all the time so I just removed it because it ends up being an liability for me. Sure it's a very good card and gets you going but I find the risk of starting with it and being stuck is just far too great versus the benefits it gives you. This is entirely player depended. If you want to run Garbodor, then you should run Hoopa-EX and Shaymin-EX but I think that version is weaker than this list. I guess we just come from two different worlds, lol.
I know. I was warned greatly that people would find this list odd but this is how the game works for me. Some of my favorite decks are toolbox decks and things I can abuse Max Potion. You are free to disagree though but I hop I can explain my reasoning.
You have no idea. Sometimes I brick but I feel this deck can handle it assuming you can do something in response to damage. Some decks can also fail the same way and brick just as hard despite all the draw support.
When I wrote this, it was something I would run into from time to time. This article was in editing for like a month and a half. I still think Paint Roller has a place but the space could go to another card. You can get around a Chaos Wheel and discard a tool and get a card but I like to prepare for random stuff. A forth Shrine could be useful but you win Stadium wars most of the time so three is fine.
I like two because you often have a few free turns to just mega evolve. For me, it's an ideal turn for me since I want them to hit me first. Turns do exist where you can use other attacks and they do happen often. So in that case, we have the two spirit links for the other Pidgeot. It works better than you think, trust me here.
I would like a better supporter but I feel Birch is the best option since we can see new cards. For me personally, I would much rather save things like Max Potion and VS Seeker just so I have them later. If you want to replace them with Sycamore but I feel you lose too many needed cards that way.
Yep, this is a problem but I make sure to kill them before they become too much of an issue but I like Octillery because it gives me protection to N. If Pidgeot takes a lead and it get N to one or two cards, it becomes harder to find the things you need to keep it alive. Octillery lets you stay in the game and have answers to things and I feel playing the deck with Shaymin-EX and Hoopa-EX makes the deck weaker though this is up for debate.
Ideally you want to use Mirror Move so you don't over extend by attaching Energy quickly to the Active. For me, I like to put that Energy on a Bench Pidgeot-EX and have that ready to attack while the Active sits there and sponge hit. The perk of 210 damage mean you can KO a Mega Mewtwo and Mega Gardevoir if they are slow. You just have to use your best judgement here when it comes to this but it comes naturally when you've played the deck a few times. You just need those feels.
I do want Puzzle of Time. In the list I've played with it, it was very useful. Having 4+ Max Potion a turn is so nice. I love it. I also want to fit hammers into the deck as well but deck space it tight.
For me, I tend to start with Hoopa-EX all the time so I just removed it because it ends up being an liability for me. Sure it's a very good card and gets you going but I find the risk of starting with it and being stuck is just far too great versus the benefits it gives you. This is entirely player depended. If you want to run Garbodor, then you should run Hoopa-EX and Shaymin-EX but I think that version is weaker than this list. I guess we just come from two different worlds, lol.
I can agree with that. Delinquent is a nice card to use but they both serve the same purpose. I prefer to use my Supporter for the turn to increase Pidgeot's staying power. That could be a Skyla for a missing piece of the puzzle you currently need (not talking about Puzzle of Time but in general).
Alakazam is a different deck than Pidgeot. Alakazam wants to attack as soon as it can and then recycle the mega so it can do the same thing the next turn so you need a lot of card but Pidgeot doesn't mind draw passing. Pidgeot doesn't want to attack as soon as it can because you have that one Energy golden gun waiting for them. Just like a bird, you'll spend a lot of time waiting and this isn't a bad thing. For Alakazam, playing a Sycamore doesn't hurt as much (I don't know, I don't play the deck) since you need to hit the mega and energy to attack. You want to trade blows but Pidgeot doesn't care to do this. It wants you to play its game, not the other way around.
Pidgeot doesn't really want to keep up with them. It wants to win the race in the long run. It doesn't matter how fast you want to go through resources because I'll have a Max Potion and Energy waiting and all it cost me was two cards. You really need a different mindset when playing Pidgeot-EX simply because its such a different card from the rest of the cast. N is useful but I don't want to give my opponent more cards assuming they brick but this is up to player choice.
In my playing, I haven't really needed to play more than two Spirit Links since we normally have free turns to get a Mega Pidgeot into play. You don't mind taking a hit so you can Mirror Move something back.
It's hard to find a good partner for it since you want something that can hit back fast assuming a Mega Pidgeot goes down in a single hit but I do feel its best partner is disruption. If you can make a list with Puzzle of Time and Hammers, you'll be golden. I feel the best way to play this deck is at your own pace rather than trying to keep up with your opponent. Being reactive should be the right way to play the bird since no deck in Standard is equipped to really handle it. Against some decks, you do need to be faster so you can put them on a clock but against others, this play style should be good.
I would either go for a streamlined Mirror Move deck or do something with the Mega Pidgeot. The bulk is nice, but if you're healing off a crapton of damage every other turn anyways, does the extra 50 HP matter? You can take out the Links and the Assault Vest (which is still very strange to me) and find room for Garbodor or those Puzzles. You definitely have an interesting idea, I just don't know if you published the refined list.
I knew you were waiting for this moment! xD Good on you for doing so man.
I knew you were waiting for this moment! xD Good on you for doing so man.
I have a list that is just Pidgeot-EX but I think it does worse against some matchups. I want to know why the Pidgeot-EX/Jolteon-EX/Garbodor list got 9th and didn't top. I have a feeling it was because of Garbodor. You don't beat Mega Mewtwo because all it does and stockpile energy on OHKO you and you lose to Mega Gardevoir because it discards the FFB with Rattata. Mega Rayquaza needs one less Pokemon to KO you with FFB and Volcanion needs one less Steam Up. You still auto win Mega Scizor though but I feel it needs Octillery to not brick to a late game N. The +50 HP with Mega Pidgeot does help, It's mostly because it's natural bulk and has to be dealt with.
As for the refined list, I'm still working with it. So far I can say it needs at least 2 Hex Maniac and 2 Enhanced Hammer. Its going to be a slow process but I got years to figure it out. I think the correct way to play it is the slow way with disruption. I'm looking for space for Puzzles as of now.
Well if you watch some of the battles he posted in the article (I did), I noticed in since one of the main attacks of the deck, mirror move, only requires one energy, this deck is suddenly able to deal with the faster moving decks. Mirror move is awesome in that sense because it becomes both a defense and an offense depending on the type of player you are playing.
Nice article! I haven't been able to play the game online these days, as my computer couldn't handle the online client anymore... Either way, once I get the client back on somehow, your decklist, updated or not, will be the first one I'll try out.
There is one question: Have you ever tried playing in a really competitive tournament, such as the ones Pokebeach and TPCi host? I ask this because playing online can be very inconsistent in the quality of matches you play. It is the high stakes matches that you really learn how well your decks stand up to the ones that actually have won high stakes tournaments. I have been learning this the hard way myself. :/
I say this because your deck build does have loads of rogue and informal choices that not many competitive decks embrace at all right now (Like using Birch and Paint Roller). Anyone can talk up an argument on why one would play card X instead of card Y. But it is the results you get from really playing truly elite players that would really help back your choices up.
There is one question: Have you ever tried playing in a really competitive tournament, such as the ones Pokebeach and TPCi host? I ask this because playing online can be very inconsistent in the quality of matches you play. It is the high stakes matches that you really learn how well your decks stand up to the ones that actually have won high stakes tournaments. I have been learning this the hard way myself. :/
I say this because your deck build does have loads of rogue and informal choices that not many competitive decks embrace at all right now (Like using Birch and Paint Roller). Anyone can talk up an argument on why one would play card X instead of card Y. But it is the results you get from really playing truly elite players that would really help back your choices up.
Cool, let me know how you like it!
I didn't think I could play in the PokeBeach tournaments. If I can, then I may try them but in my area, the only tournaments I can get to are weekly tournaments. Everything else is too far away from me and with the removal of Cities and States, that may be impossible for me. Just last night in a weekly tournament, which is very competitive. I managed to 6-0 two dark decks, those being a Yveltal-EX and Yveltal-EX/Gyratina-EX/Garbodor deck. In those matches, Garbodor came out quickly but I managed to deal with them. I made some changes to help more with the meta like adding 2 Hex Maniac and 2 Enhanced Hammer, which really did make a difference. The third match was against a Greninja deck, in which I won. He bricked towards the end, but this is something I expect to happen with the matchup so I consider it an actual win for me. I ended up getting second place, losing to M Tyranitar-EX. That card is broken. Not sure why its not seeing play.
I agree. I do need to play better players who make good choices in the game. Its hard to find them considering all the cards are so powerful that most decks are pretty straight forward. I feel I have my best matches against decks that don't OHKO you since they require something other than "draw as many cards as possible to get the OHKO". It feels like there is more player interaction so its better to judge who is good or who isn't. I say this because the card design pretty much let anyone be good.
Not that this is saying much, since it isn't an actual Regionals or anything like that but the players do play tier 1 and 2 decks in my area in Masters.
I wasn't able to watch anything since I was around other people, but what you said makes sense.
The battles are there so you can get an idea of how the deck may perform in that match.
I'll take a look at them when I can.
I might genuinely consider this deck now, what an excellent write up!
I'm glad to hear that! Let me know if you have any success with the deck and how you ran it. I'm also glad you enjoyed the article.
Vespiquen zebstrika would crush this deck with klefki help
No deck is perfect but we'll manage.